Kennedy, airplane wreckage located 8.05 a.m. ET (1206 GMT) July 21, 1999

By Glen Johnson, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP)  The wreckage of John F. Kennedy Jr.'s airplane was located today, with Kennedy's body still aboard, off the coast of Martha's Vineyard, Mass., The Associated Press was told.

"They've got the fuselage and John Kennedy's in it,'' a high-level government source said.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), July 21, 1999

Answers

He must have leveled-off just before impact. I would think that if he had gone straight down, the impact would have shattered the fuselage.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), July 21, 1999.

Having planned too many funerals in my life, I must say that I'm relieved for the families. They are far more fortunate to have bodies than those who have grieved and secretly hoped for their POW's or kidnapped and missing.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 21, 1999.

I don't mean to take from the grief of the families involved, but WHO IS PAYING FOR ALL THIS SEARCH/RESCUE OPERATION?????? The gov't must have spent millions this week. Why? They wouldn't have done this for you and me! They would have done a cursory 18 hour search and that would have concluded it. Its not like JFK, Jr. was president. Other than fame/wealth of family, he was an ordinary guy. Special? Yes! But so special that the tax payers should spend millions? Do you think the gov't would have moved that ship, the Grasp, from Va to Matha's Vinyard for thee and me? Are the Kennedys going to be billed for this operation? I hope so, but sure haven't seen anything that would tell me that. All that money would have fed a lot of people, y2k or not.

Taz...who is really disturbed over this.

-- Taz (Tassie@aol.com), July 21, 1999.

taz

i have heard (unconfirmed) that the kennedy's are paying for the extra effort. if anyone can confirm that, please do.

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), July 21, 1999.

"The gov't must have spent millions this week. Why? "

In USA "folklore", the Kennedys were the "last of the good guys". In many people's minds, the shooting of JFK marked the end of an era. Some liked him because he was the first Roman Catholic President. The aura of the Kennedys was often compared with the Legend of King Arthur. Futher, JFK set the goal of going to the moon - a goal achieved.

Being under 40, my personal experience with the Kennedys is Ted Kennedy (Barney Frank's "soul-mate"?) and BJ Clinton who compares himself to Kennedy. My personal experience is anything but positive. Hopefully the legends from the early '60s are true.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), July 21, 1999.

My sympathy is extended to John, Carolyn, & Lauren's families & friends.

Losing someone you love is not easy. Grieving with cameras shoved in your face has got to be worse.

-- Deborah (infowars@yahoo.com), July 21, 1999.

It's just another plane crash where some people died. Just like Princes Di's crash, they happen all the time. Nobody I knew, no big deal. Get over it people.

-- rick (I'mset@home.house), July 21, 1999.

Was the plane found in more or less one piece?? Will tests be conducted for explosives?? How many witnesses to the "explosion" in the sky??

Back to prepping.

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), July 21, 1999.

Body of JFK Jr. found in wreckage No word on whether bodies of wife, sister-in-law also seen

MSNBC staff and wire reports AQUINNAH, Mass., July 21  A large portion of the fuselage of the plane piloted by John F. Kennedy Jr. has been discovered in the waters off Martha's Vineyard, and divers were preparing to dive to the wreckage, search officials said Wednesday. Sources told news organizations that operators using a remote-controlled diving vehicle equipped with a camera observed JFK Jr.'s body in the wreckage, but it was not clear whether his wife and sister-in-law's remains also were inside.

THE DISCOVERY was made at 11:30 p.m. Tuesday by the remote-operated diving vehicle operated from the USS Grasp, the National Safety and Transportation Board and the Coast Guard said in a joint statement. The wreckage was less than a half mile from the spot the agency had identified as the most likely crash site based on analysis of radar images, it said.

The statement said the fuselage had been positively identified as Kennedy's plane, but did not mention whether any bodies had been observed. But sources told NBC News and the Associated Press that JFK Jr.'s body was seen in the wreckage.

A source quoted by the AP explained the reluctance to discuss the discovery by saying federal officials did not want to provide an identity of a badly mangled body aboard until a coroner could examine it.

FUSELAGE PRETTY MUCH INTACT

The wreckage  a large portion of the crumpled fuselage and cabin of the Piper Saratoga  "is pretty much intact," sources told NBC News, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The Grasp was positioned above the discovery and divers were to descend to the wreckage soon.

"The top priority of the operation will be to locate and recover all the victims," the NTSB-Coast Guard statement said.

An attempt to raise the wreckage was expected later in the day.

Jim Hall, chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board, and Coast Guard Rear Adm. Richard Larrabee, who was overseeing the search, canceled a round of morning TV appearances and went to the Grasp, the ship where the wreckage was to be deposited after being raised from the ocean floor.

Senior administration officials told NBC the White House was notified of the discovery of a major portion of the plane in the early morning hours, but had not disturbed President Bill Clinton before his scheduled briefing.

MEMORIAL SERVICE PLANNED

Government sources told the Associated Press that a memorial service for all three victims  Kennedy, 38, his wife, Carolyn Bessette Kennedy, 33, and her sister, Lauren Bessette, 34  would be held in New York City, perhaps on Saturday. Separately, sources told NBC that a service for Kennedy could be held as early as Friday, most likely at the Church of St. Thomas More.

A memorial Mass organized by the Irish-American community in New York is scheduled for Thursday evening at Old St. Patrick's Cathedral in lower Manhattan.

NBC News was told that Kennedy's family had requested burial at sea for the only son of former President John F. Kennedy, but a source close to the family later said the matter had not yet been decided. The Navy said that the fact that Kennedy did not serve in the military does not preclude it from participating in the burial.

Divers worked through the night to locate the possible wreckage, working in poor visibility. Earlier Tuesday, sonar detected a promising underwater site  an area that some said could contain the plane's fuselage.

NBC's Robert Hager said divers were able to stay down only about 15 minutes at a time and see only about 8 feet through the murky depths.

Divers had been given a list of 10 sites to examine by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. The divers were able to eliminate three of those before nightfall Tuesday, Larrabee said.

The wreckage will become a critical source of factual information in determining what went wrong  whether there was a mechanical problem, fire, engine failure or electrical system problem on board, said NBC's Hager.

But if none of this yields any signs of trouble, that would bring investigators back to a frequent cause of other accidents of this type: pilot error  losing the sense of up and down in the darkness and being unable to recover.

SIGNS OF CONFUSION?

Investigators said that radar data indicated Kennedy went through a series of maneuvers, possibly out of confusion, as he began the descent into Martha's Vineyard.

Several experienced pilots who flew into the Vineyard on Friday night said the hazy skies and darkness were challenging even for them. Kennedy obtained his pilot's license in April 1998.

"Your middle ear ... can be tricked and what you think is up is sideways and what you think is sideways is up," David Hinson, former head of the Federal Aviation Administration, told reporters on Tuesday night at a briefing on the search.

The Washington Post reported Wednesday that Kennedy told acquaintances he was happy to fly solo after having a cast removed from his ankle the day before last Friday's flight. Kennedy reportedly had felt the need to fly with a co-pilot since breaking his ankle in a paraglider crash three weeks earlier.

Investigators on Tuesday said radar data indicated Kennedy was making routine maneuvers before his plane plunged at a rate exceeding 5,000 feet per minute  well over 10 times normal and even faster than the 4,700 foot-per-minute estimate from Monday's briefing.

NTSB investigator Robert Pearce said radar records show Kennedy was in a normal descent rate of 700 feet-per-minute for five minutes. Then, 20 miles from the airport, he climbed from 2,300 feet to 2,600 feet while turning right.

Pearce said Kennedy remained at that altitude for a minute while heading southeast, a normal approach direction for the Vineyard airport.

A RIGHT TURN, THEN DISASTER

Then, said Pearce, Kennedy began descending again at 700 feet per minute and turned to the east. Thirty seconds into that maneuver, he turned to the right "in a rapid rate of descent."

Experts said the drop was so fast it indicates a plane out of control and about at the limit of what the plane could take without breaking up.

Experts said the high-performance Piper Saratoga 32 generally cannot handle a descent faster than 1,500 feet per minute. The plane's gauge shows a maximum of 2,000 feet per minute.

"The normal rate of descent you're shooting for as a pilot is 500 (to) 700 feet per minute for passenger comfort," said Warren Morningstar, a spokesman for the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.

While the nation waited for the plane to be recovered, a flag flew at half-staff at the Kennedy family compound in Hyannisport and at the Long Island summer home of Kennedy's sister Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg. Some Kennedy family members went sailing in Hyannisport, while Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg left the seclusion of her summer home for a morning bicycle ride with her husband. They later drove away with her cousins Maria Shriver and William Kennedy Smith.

The Senate closed Tuesday's session with words of comfort for John F. Kennedy Jr.'s uncle, Sen. Edward Kennedy, who was absent, tending to his family.

Said Minority Leader Tom Daschle: "Please, if there is any way, let us help you carry your grief, if you grow tired. You and your family have given our nation so much. Let us, if we can, give something back to you."

Also Tuesday, police on Martha's Vineyard said that registration papers for Kennedy's plane washed up Saturday on Martha's Vineyard property owned by Kennedy and his sister Caroline. Police said the pouch was found on a public beach. Pieces of metal and foam were also recovered from the coastline.

Among other debris recovered so far: a wheel, a rudder pedal, luggage, a prescription drug bottle bearing the name of Kennedy's wife; interior aircraft insulation; two pairs of women's shoes and a business card bearing Kennedy's sister-in-law's name.

The NTSB's Pearce said the largest plane debris recovered was a piece of overhead molding from the cabin, which was about 10 square feet in area.

Everything found so far was either floating or had washed up on shore, he added.

'HE'S CRAZY,' WIFE REPORTEDLY SAID

As the search continued, a source who had been close to Kennedy and his wife told MSNBC's Jeannette Walls that Carolyn Bessette Kennedy feared riding in the plane and told her sister Lauren she didn't want to make the flight to Martha's Vineyard and Hyannisport.

Lauren Bessette was to have been dropped off on Martha's Vineyard and then the Kennedys were to continue on to their family compound at Hyannisport for the wedding of Rory Kennedy, daughter of the late Sen. Robert F. Kennedy.

The source said Bessette Kennedy was "near tears" on Friday morning. "She was saying, 'He's crazy. He's a Kennedy and he's flying,'" the source, a close friend of the Kennedy couple, said.

Lauren Bessette assured her sister that everything would be all right and agreed to go along on the flight, Walls reported in her column, "The Scoop." The source said Kennedy's wife insisted on her sister making the trip.

EARLY CONCERN DISMISSED

The Boston Globe and Boston Herald reported Tuesday that an employee of the Martha's Vineyard airport, Adam Budd, telephoned a Federal Aviation Administration station in Bridgeport, Conn., at 10:05 p.m. Friday at the request of an unidentified couple who had come to the airport to meet Bessette.

Budd told the FAA employee, "I was wondering if you could track an airplane for me," according to a transcript published in the Globe. He later said, "Kennedy Jr.'s on board. He's, uh, they wanna know, uh, where he is."

The person at the FAA station questioned Budd repeatedly about who he was and finally told Budd, "We don't give this information out to people over the phone." Budd gave up.

In the end, no action was taken until a 2:15 a.m. Saturday phone call to the Coast Guard by a Kennedy family friend. Her call set in motion a multi-agency search.

FAA officials said they responded appropriately to the first call, and that Budd's tone did not indicate he was worried about the plane.

"The FAA was not told that the aircraft was overdue, or that there was any indication there was a problem or a cause for concern that would raise warning flags," Eliot Brenner, an FAA spokesman, told the Globe. But Budd, a 21-year-old college student working as a ramp attendant at the airstrip, told the newspaper the FAA employee "was kind of rude to me, making me feel uncomfortable."

An unidentified FAA source told the Globe the agency is considering taking disciplinary action against the employee for not coming forward to report the call when it became clear the plane was missing.

On Monday, both the Kennedy family and the Bessette family issued statements.

"We are filled with unspeakable grief and sadness by the loss of John and Carolyn and of Lauren Bessette," said the statement, issued by Sen. Kennedy.

"John had many gifts and gave us great joy, most especially when he brought his wonderful bride Carolyn into our lives," the statement read. Click here for the entire statement.

The Bessette family referred to John Kennedy and Carolyn as "true soul mates" and said they hoped John and Carolyn would comfort Lauren Bessette through eternity. "Nothing in life is preparation for the loss of a child," said the statement, read by family friend Grant Stinchfield. Click here for more on the statement.

KENNEDY'S PLANE

Investigators said maintenance records show the plane was inspected on June 28, less than three weeks before the crash. On July 13, some additional maintenance was performed, including an adjustment of the aircraft's magnetic compass.

The Piper Saratoga was built in 1995. Kennedy, who got his pilot's license 14 months ago, had owned the single-engine six-seater since April. The aircraft has a cruising speed of around 200 mph. Like most general aviation aircraft, it did not carry a flight data recorder.

Moreover, the flight was supposed to have been during the daytime, but Bessette got held up at work, a family friend said. Then New York traffic jammed them up and the Friday departure to Martha's Vineyard got pushed toward darkness.

An informal memorial of flowers, handwritten messages, drawings and candles has appeared outside the New York apartment building where Kennedy and his wife lived.

NBC's Robert Hager, Anne Thompson, Kelly O'Donnell and The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), July 21, 1999.

Let's see how short our memories are. How long did they look for the deceased from Flight 800? How long did they look offshore in Canada for the deceased? The authorities in BOTH crashes, spent as long as it took to find ALL of the bodies.

cr

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), July 21, 1999.

Every single time people are missing or hurt, whether it's hiking, sailing, mountain climbing, airplane crashes, snowmobiling, or almost any other activity, there is always a big search and rescue operation. Of course most don't get the publicity that famous people do, and they should be grateful for that. Taxpayer money is spent all the time for much sillier reasons; even reasons that do harm to the taxpayers, and nobody says a damned word. What a petty thing to gripe about. Deborah, what you said is what most kind hearted people feel when a tragedy such as this strikes. I'm sure we all get tired of the media blathering about it day after day, but that isn't the families fault. It doesn't mean the family grieves any less than we would. The Kennedy's are just as human as anyone else, and my heart goes out to both families. I feel the same about all victims and their families that suffer through tragedies. It's part of what makes of civilized. Of course some of you on this thread are about as sensitive as slime covered rocks, but your sensitivities certainly surface on this forum, with concern for your own scaly hides, which may be in peril from Y2K. I've never seen a forum with so many bawling, puling, sniveling, snot-slinging, praying, whining, crybabies, all because in January, it *may* be going to come to an end. As some jerk said, "Get over it people." so you may die; what the hell did you think was going to happen? Do you think your going to get some special dispensation because you've whined and prayed and stored beans for you and your "special family members."

If hateful, mean, self-centered, lower fungi, like some of you posting above, are the survivors of Y2K, then I'll make sure that I have the means to my own "quietus make."

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), July 21, 1999.

gilda, thanks for teaching me a new word: Pule = whine, whimper.

As for the Kennedys: I just say a prayer for all of them, & turn the channel.

The only thing I object to is hearing them referred to as "American royalty" or "nobility" or any of that "Camelot" crap. I'll bet most of the Kennedys hate that stuff too. We can acknowledge their place in Am. history w/o being ridiculous about it.

-- feeling sorry (for@everyone.involved), July 21, 1999.

Glida, Tell me now, were you one of those jackasses that stood in line outside JFK jr.'s place to leave flowers and other shit like that on the sidewalk? "Oh No, we lost another liberal, NWO, democratic, rich prick." If YOU died JFK could give a rats ass about it. Return the favor.

-- rick (I'mset@home.house), July 21, 1999.

If I'm not mistaken, the Grasp is the same ship that was instrumental in recovering the wreckage of Flight 800. Which, as we all know, blew up due to spontaneous combustion.

A reporter on the beach saw a "bright white flash in the sky" at precisely the time of the crash.

In the first few hours, the rate of descent of John-John's plane was reported as "1200ft in 12 seconds," essentially a plummet. Later it was revised to a slow glide, with no mention of why the original data was changed, or even that it had been changed at all. Now they've realized that too many people are aware of this discrepancy, and a different tack is being taken; as they own up to the original figures, we are being told that "the rate of descent was faster than originally estimated" - when in fact the real "original" estimate is one they tried to lower, then changed back when they realized they couldn't get away with lowering it.

We're also being told that the weather was cloudy and dangerous to fly in. Relatives who live there have informed me that the weather at the Vinyard was perfectly clear for the entire weekend. Maybe there was mist on some portion of the flightpath, but it certainly wasn't misty at the point where the plane ran into trouble. And yet the "Today Show," for example, took great pains to show it's national audience how the good weather the search crews were enjoying was due to winds from the northeast sweeping away "all that foggy, inclement weather." We're being hammered with that "fact," incessantly, on national news, and now in local outlets which parrot national releases uncritically.

We're also being hammered with a characterization of Kennedy Jr. as a "risk-taker" - this before the bodies were even cold; it was a pre-packaged, coordinated explaination for the crash. Despite the overwhelming suspicion on the part of Americans that Jr.'s father, JFK, was assassinated by the CIA or the Mafia (if there's a difference), and the fact that Jr. was planning a possible NY senatorial run (against Hillary) and potential shot at the Presidency, the Government refuses to admit the possibility of foul play. Think about that: before any material evidence is collected, foul play is eliminated a priori - they don't even allow it to be considered, in the investigation.

Don't follow leaders. Watch your parking meters....

Rosie

-- rosie the riveter (rosie@needlepoint.hel), July 21, 1999.

feeling sorry, I agree with you about the "American Royalty" and "nobility" syndrome that the media suffers from and prattles about. I think it's silly, and almost demeaning. But the media is big on hype and little on news. And I think most of the Kennedy's probably hate that royalty stuff too.

No rick, I don't even believe in flowers for funerals. But I understand that people feel differently about these things.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), July 21, 1999.

Rosie- Exactly. Kudos...

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), July 22, 1999.

First off comparing the search and rescue operation of a commercial 747 with about 300 on board to the search and rescue of a private plane with 3 on board is silly. Yes whenever a plane goes in or a ship goes down a search is conducted. But come on folks the scale of this was way bigger then usual. Also once the "rescue" part is done recovery is usually not continued . Many many people have lost loved ones in plane crashes and sunken boats with no attempt by the government to recover wreckage or remains. We had a recent boating accident here in Wisconsin with several fisherman lost, no one is trying to recover remains. Like it or not this is clearly an "Animal Farm " effect, "all animals are equal, but some are more equal then others". Obviously Kennedys are more equal. As I write a US navy destroyer is steaming out to sea to bury the bodies. How many Navy vets get that kind of treatment?

-- kozak (kozak@formerusaf.guv), July 22, 1999.