I am a GI so please don't misunderstand my question. But the one thing I have a hard time answering by my DGI and DWGI friends is, How can SO MANY experts be reassuring us that all is well and on track when it really isn't. One cynical friend put it this way, If it's really going to be TEOTWAYKI and so many people know it but aren't admitting it, this would have to be the most massive conspiracy or cover up in history. How can I explain to them the cover up with out resorting to kooky conspiracy theories?

JE

-- JE (jimrose@voyager.net), July 18, 1999

Answers

How about,

"It's the economy, stupid."

I dunno.

-- Idunno (thatis@agood.question), July 18, 1999.

My point exactly;

There isn't anything on the news about Y2K because there isn't anything to report.

This forum isn't about Y2K it's about the end of the world. A domsday cult. That's all.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

"There isn't anything on the news about Y2K because there isn't anything to report."

Huh?

Washington Post? USA Today?

Are these "Fish Wrap Daily" publications?

I think some people actually read them.

Others watch MTV and play games on the net.

-- idunno (thatis@agood.question), July 18, 1999.

There are almost always a lot of experts saying a lot of different things, most of the time their opinions contradict each other. Y2K is no different than a myriad of different topics. The one key difference is that nothing like Y2K has ever happened to us before.

I don't believe that there is a conspiracy of "experts" to cover up Y2K. I do believe that the government probably knows more than they are telling us. I also believe that the media is heavily biased on almost everything. I put all of these things together and came to the conclusion that there might be serious problems that could affect my ability to continue breathing (to be honest, I did a lot of research into the subject, it wasn't quite that simple).

All I needed to make my decision to prepare was a reasonable doubt that everything will be fine. Anyone who wants to get in a battle over what this expert or that is saying is missing the point. Experts will argue you six feet under the ground if you let them.

-- d (d@dgi.old), July 18, 1999.

Yeah and it's amazing that no one other than the sad members of this forum seem to put any value on these articles. Everyone else seem them for what they are, compliancy reports.

But around here you add one part conspiracy and one part paranoia and all of sudden you got news in the making.

When I see someone of unbiased respect come out and tell everyone that Y2K is going to be the end of the world I might buy it. Until then I'll just take the advice of the dozens of IT people I know who feel that Y2K is bunk. You know, the guys down in the trenches doing the acutal work. Not self appointed "experts".

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

"This forum isn't about Y2K it's about the end of the world. A domsday cult. That's all."

I wish you would have mentioned this earlier. We could have ended the confusion created by all of the Y2K posts and, for that matter, the title of the forum. Idiot...

-- d (d@dgi.old), July 18, 1999.

yeah D,

so simple it's genius.

Occam's Razor, all things being equal the simplest answer tends to be the right one.

y2K is bunk. go home

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

How can SO MANY experts be reassuring us that all is well and on track when it really isn't.

Huh?

Your DWGI and DGI say that?

Just who are they talking about? Are they confusing "public relations" types with experts?

-- Lane Core Jr. (elcore@sgi.net), July 18, 1999.

But your answer isn't the simplest. Hell, it isn't even an answer at all. Besides, this forum wasn't ever intended for people like you. I don't hang around the big fat idiot forum, why are you here?

-- d (d@dgi.old), July 18, 1999.

This forum isn't about Y2K it's about the end of the world. A domsday cult. That's all.

If you don't like it here, go away. I myself don't belong to a doomsday cult. You Pollyannas who lump every non-BITR person into the Collapse of Civilization Crowd are getting really, really annoying. Your approach is crude and insulting, and it is (and you are) intellectually dishonest.

If you don't like it here, go away.

-- Lane Core Jr. (elcore@sgi.net), July 18, 1999.

Hey Lane,

You take a hundred monkeys, set them in front of a hundred typewriters and let them type for a hundred years then collectively they will produce the entire works of Shakespeare right?

You take a hundred doomers, put them in front of a hundred terminals and let them type for a few years and they will have produced TEOTWAWKI scenario. Each one of you takes you own bitter experiences with computers, lumps them into the TB2000 mixture and before you know it you got a recipe for disaster. But it's all bullshit because these things don't have any realtion other than on this forum.

You Are A Doomsday Cult!

You just don't see it yet.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

Please excuse my smelly butt

-- Peeyou (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

There is no excuse for an imposter no matter how psychologically imbalanced their doctors say they are. That is why I favor the death penalty.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

Doomers Suck,

"Each one of you takes you own bitter experiences with computers, lumps them into the TB2000 mixture..."

I work with computers every day and hey, I'm using a computer right now! I guess I'm not that bitter, huh? You also appear to be implying that we, at this forum, somehow created the whole Y2K mess by stating that we sit in, "front of a hundred terminals and let them type for a few years and they will have produced TEOTWAWKI scenario." I'm sorry to tell you zippy, but we didn't make this thing up, no matter how much you want to believe it.

Also, how can we be a cult? We have no leader, pay no dues, most of us have no real contact with the others, we don't share any unified beliefs, etc... If this is a cult, I'm pretty pissed that I haven't gotten any DoomerTM robes in the mail.

-- d (d@dgi.old), July 18, 1999.

You didn't make it up you just blew it up way out of proportion. There is a difference, wake up and smell the Java Beans.

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

Let me get this strait, we at this forum, have blown Y2K out of proportion. We, on this forum, caused the governments of the world and businesses all over the world to spend huge quantities of money. I had no idea how much power we had. I now realize why you spend so much time hanging around on a forum where your views are not appreciated. You're simply trying to prevent us from using our enormous power to destroy the world.

Now there is a conspiracy that rivals anything previously posted on this forum. A relatively small forum on the net has managed to influence the most powerful nations on the planet. I'm beginning to wonder who is really paranoid here...

-- d (d@dgi.old), July 18, 1999.

DOOMER, who sent you here? do they pay good?--just havin fun? is that sand in your eyes,irritating?my what a big exposed butt'ostrich -boy.

-- dear=DOOMED ER (dogs@zianet.com), July 18, 1999.

If one does not believe that Y2K is going to be a problem, then one shouldn't waste his or her time contributing nonsense to this forum. What does one have to lose with having some extra food, water and cash on hand? What's wrong with getting in line and taking a 50/50 chance? If I were to explain it to anyone, I would ask them if they have a savings account or if they ever put gas in their car? Better yet, ask your conspiracy friends how many supermarkets are in their town and what the population is. Divide the number of markets into the population. Then ask your conspiracy friends if their supermarket has 5,000 cans of anything on hand......sobering thought.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), July 18, 1999.

(doomers@suck.com),

doomer suck,

Here's a good one for you. Study this site and then come back and tell me you think this "System" is wonderful and you want it to continue because you like your comfortable life of slavery.

http://www.xld.com/public/center/center.htm

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), July 18, 1999.

News media, like police, are most experienced at responding to the past. Y2K is still in the future.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), July 18, 1999.

Doomers@suck sounds JUST like S.Cess Poole to me! If you're going to use another handle, try using some new material as well, NUK boy!

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 18, 1999.

Robes on order, guys, and will be in the mail on 1/1, if the post office is still up and running. Meanwhile, practice the handshake. Thanks for the meme ories.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), July 18, 1999.

Hey Doomer does your paycheck come from SAIC for this stirring up trouble?

-- Ann Fisher (zyax55b@prodigy.com), July 18, 1999.

Anne Fisher,

Please explain the SAIC comment. Are they an official Y2K debunking contractor for gov.org or something?

WW, who dealt with SAIC for things "Black and Spooky" in past years.

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), July 18, 1999.

Bardou!!!

Is that really you?

Welcome back!!! See any changes in this forum? Are you done preparing? What's your latest view of what lies ahead?

Anita Evangelista

-- Anita Evangelista (ale@townsqr.com), July 18, 1999.

How can SO MANY experts be reassuring us that all is well and on track when it really isn't. One cynical friend put it this way, If it's really going to be TEOTWAYKI and so many people know it but aren't admitting it, this would have to be the most massive conspiracy or cover up in history.

The same way they tell us that smoking one joint will ruin your life....

-- (y2kbiker@worldnet.att.net), July 18, 1999.

Pretty Big Conspiracies happen.

The JFK assassination, Pearl Harbor, Julius Caesar's murder, Chris Columbus jailed and his discoveries named after the infamous Americo Vespuccio, etc., etc. Sometimes many many people are involved in conspiracies. What's new guys?

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), July 18, 1999.

Could be time to "out" doomers@suck.com.

Sysops, we know you got the equipment.

Votes anyone?

-- Idunno (thatis@agood.question), July 18, 1999.

I vote that the sysops complain to its ISP and get it TOS'd. There's no time to have to deal with these maladjusted children.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), July 19, 1999.

If we can't muster the individual and collective self-discipline to ignore the likes of doomer, et al. why does anyone feel that it is up to someone else (the moderators in this case) to remove them?

On the other hand, this one is single-handedly hijacking a rather large number of threads, sending them off into distraction and disjunction. She/he/it is a rather energetic young snot, moreso than some others. But, I'm training myself to ignore graffitti too. It's that or go crazy.

PLEASE, MODERATORS, can you possibly arrange to have the poster's name printed at the TOP of his or her post. It would make my browsing of this forum so much more enjoyable.

Hallyx

-- (Hallyx@aol.com), July 19, 1999.

Simpsons devotees may get this...

Who's not sure that the grid will work? Who's got mighty spooks that lurk? We do, we do.

Who sells short against the Dow? Who stores up three years of chow? We do, we do.

Who sees through all the PR shills? Who stocks up and heads for the hills? We do, we dooooooooo m!

-- number six (Iam_not_a_number@hotmail.com), July 19, 1999.

Hal, I don't think the Greenspun software provides for putting poster names at the top of the post--something to do with all the fora using this software. I believe it's a case of if one has it, everyone has to have it, although I'm really not sure. That's why the sysops offered the "delete on sufficient requests" option.

Egregious disruption, such as that exhibited by DS, is not permitted by Internet Service Providers and the transgressor can have its account terminated (TOS'D). I don't see any other way to get the message to this troll that its disruptive behavior doesn't have to be tolerated.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), July 19, 1999.

No. 6--

Inspired! LOL!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), July 19, 1999.

Why must we postulate a conspiracy? Consider this:

In 1929, several persons who dared suggest that the stock market was overextended were threatened with treason charges by major newspapers.

No one likes bad news. The worse the news, the less we want to hear it. How many have died because of putting off going to a doctor about "that little lump"?

World War One saw horrifying casualties. Why? The commanding generals simply refused to factor machine guns and modern artillery into their battle plans of mass attacks. Four years of battles that saw as many as 600,000 casualties, because of stubborn clinging to out of date beliefs. And the facts were there in front of them.

Folks, it doesn't take an organized conspiracy. All it takes is lots of people preferring good news no matter the evidence. All it takes is assuming that the future will be a carbon copy of the recent past. All it takes is wishing real hard.

-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), July 19, 1999.

Thanks Jon, I had to wade through a lot of poop to get to you, but I really appreciated your insights.

JE

-- JE (jimrose@voyager.net), July 19, 1999.

Jon:

Somehow, you conveniently forget to mention the large number of unpleasant events predicted by lots of people, that never came to pass. Remember the drills we went through in schools nationwide to practice reacing to a nuclear attack? Remember the fallout shelters, with the triangular signs everywhere? There was a period during which a *lot* more people felt nuclear war was imminent, than have felt concerned about y2k. And the consequences were supposed to have been worse. Have you forgotten?

During the first years of this decade, it was common knowledge that we were heading into another depression. People wrote books about it, many more economists predicted big problems than are doing so now. They had lots of expertise, experience and data. They were totally wrong. Have you forgotten?

Take a little trip through history, even recent history, and read predictions. Lousy track record, all in all. But almost no matter when you look, you can find predictions all over the map, for just about everything. Around new years, it's a near-tradition for thousands of journalists to make (or quote) predictions about the coming year. You could find a million predictions of just about everything if you looked.

So no matter *what* happens, you could find *someone* who predicted it. The more unexpected, the fewer the predictions, but you'd find some. And you could pontificate that if only people had *listened* to those we can see with perfect hindsight turned out to be correct, we'd have been ever so much better off. And it's true, we would have been better off. But nobody knew which guesses would be accurate. As I've said, a LOT of guesses turned out to be wrong, even when made by plenty of respectable people.

Hindsight is so wonderful. It makes those who guessed right famous. Those who predicted what never came to pass tend to vanish mercifully into anonymity. Even though they are in the VAST majority.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), July 19, 1999.