http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/99/07/18/stinwenws02029.html?999

Big Bang machine could destroy Earth by Jonathan Leake Science Editor

A NUCLEAR accelerator designed to replicate the Big Bang is under investigation by international physicists because of fears that it might cause "perturbations of the universe" that could destroy the Earth. One theory even suggests that it could create a black hole. Brookhaven National Laboratories (BNL), one of the American government's foremost research bodies, has spent eight years building its Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) on Long Island in New York state. A successful test-firing was held on Friday and the first nuclear collisions will take place in the autumn, building up to full power around the time of the millennium. Last week, however, John Marburger, Brookhaven's director, set up a committee of physicists to investigate whether the project could go disastrously wrong. It followed warnings by other physicists that there was a tiny but real risk that the machine, the most powerful of its kind in the world, had the power to create "strangelets" - a new type of matter made up of sub-atomic particles called "strange quarks". The committee is to examine the possibility that, once formed, strangelets might start an uncontrollable chain reaction that could convert anything they touched into more strange matter. The committee will also consider an alternative, although less likely, possibility that the colliding particles could achieve such a high density that they would form a mini black hole. In space, black holes are believed to generate intense gravitational fields that suck in all surrounding matter. The creation of one on Earth could be disastrous. Professor Bob Jaffe, director of the Centre for Theoretical Physics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who is on the committee, said he believed the risk was tiny but could not be ruled out. "There have been fears that strange matter could alter the structure of anything nearby. The risk is exceedingly small but the probability of something unusual happening is not zero." Construction of the #350m RHIC machine started eight years ago and is almost complete. On Friday scientists sent the first beam of particles around the machine - but without attempting any collisions. Inside the collider, atoms of gold will be stripped of their outer electrons and pumped into one of two 2.4-mile circular tubes where powerful magnets will accelerate them to 99.9% of the speed of light. The ions in the two tubes will travel in opposite directions to increase the power of the collisions. When they smash into each other, at one of several intersections between the tubes, they will generate minuscule fireballs of superdense matter with temperatures of about a trillion degrees - 10,000 times hotter than the sun. Such conditions are thought not to have existed - except possibly in the heart of some dense stars - since the Big Bang that formed the universe between 12 billion and 15 billion years ago. Under such conditions atomic nuclei "evaporate" into a plasma of even smaller particles called quarks and gluons. Theoretical and experimental evidence predicts that such a plasma would then emit a shower of other, different particles as it cooled down. Among the particles predicted to appear during this cooling are strange quarks. These have been detected in other accelerators but always attached to other particles. RHIC, the most powerful such machine yet built, has the ability to create solitary strange quarks for the first time since the universe began. BNL confirmed that there had been discussion over the possibility of "perturbations in the universe". Thomas Ludlam, associate project director of RHIC, said that the committee would hold its first meeting shortly. John Nelson, professor of nuclear physics at Birmingham University who is leading the British scientific team at RHIC, said the chances of an accident were infinitesimally small - but Brookhaven had a duty to assess them. "The big question is whether the planet will disappear in the twinkling of an eye. It is astonishingly unlikely that there is any risk - but I could not prove it," he said.

Ya know Jane, if it isnt one thing its another Roseanne Roseannadanna

-- jjbeck (jjbeck@recycler.com), July 18, 1999

Answers

Quarks, gluons, Doomsday machines (laughter!!)

This post ought to be stuck on the hood of this decedant BB you people call a Y2K forum. It is the perfect flagship for the truly delusional.

Ah well, thanks for the laugh. Hey! Are those little green men I see landing in my backyard! Oh no! They have a bag full of quarks and they are threatening to drop them! hehehee

(This is my last post for the night, if anyone else ursurps my handle then you know it's that little vermin what's his face. Maybe you can have him/her go and find Batman and help stop this crazy Dr. Evil and his Doomsday Machine! LOL!)

-- 1:49am EST, last post (doomers@suck.com), July 18, 1999.

It reminds me of Oppenheimer and crew advising the powers-that-were that there was a chance that using the "bomb" could ignite the nitrogen in the atmosphere - wiping us out completely. It was decided that the benefits outweighed the risks....sigh.....

-- Kristi (securx@succeed.net), July 18, 1999.

It's never a good idea to stand on the railroad tracks while ridiculing an oncoming train....

There were somewhat similar concerns surrounding the first test detonation of a nuclear device as well. It turned out that they were worried over nothing. They discovered that nuclear weapons are perfectly safe and subsequently concluded that they should be produced in large quantities.

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), July 18, 1999.

I am reminded of an old addage:

"First thing each morning if you will swallow a large toad probably nothing worse will happen to you all day"

I think the earth being sucked into a black hole just might be worse. It sounds like it could *really* ruin a good day.

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), July 18, 1999.

The efforts to stop this kind of accelerator have been ongoing.

BTH, "Doomers suck". Note that it is a group of "international physicists" that are concerned enough to try to stop the testing. Are you a physicist?

Side note. Maybe someone more versed in this will help me out.

I think it was the during the testing of the H bomb that tremendous concern existed regarding the possibility that exploding the bomb might actually ignite the aptmosphere.

The Russians, during their testing, actually created a bomb so large that it nearly did. The blast and the mushroom cloud could be seen something in the range of 500 miles away. The cloud itself stretched into the upper aptmosphere.

Also, during Kruschev, the Russians had started plans to build a ship that was nothing more than the biggest nuclear weapon every built. The ship was obviously mobile and designed so that if the Russians felt they were put into a no win situation they would utilize this device to ignite the aptmosphere and destroy all life on the planet.

Mike

======================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), July 18, 1999.

You know.. after reading this, and considering it along with the programming issues of Y2K... and the embedded systems issue of Y2K.. and the possibility of solar flares around the millennium... and possible GPS glitches in Aug. .. and Comet Lee.. and global warming.. and perhaps another monster El Nino starting up.. and possible terrorism of all sorts timed to take advantage of Y2K chaos.. and the fragility of the fractional reserve banking system.. and the saber rattling of Russia and China and India and Pakistan and North and South Korea and....

geez... enough already!

Are we all on the BIG GUY's hit list or something?

Time to put on my tinfoil hat and climb back under the covers.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), July 18, 1999.

Linda, THe BIG GUY likes us. It's laziness He doesn't like. That's why He's putting the pressure on. I think, personally, a black hole would be easy compared to what MIGHT be coming down. I'm not dismissing the possibility of a big bang right in our own backyard. We've gotten so smart that we're dangerous, not smart enough to place that in check. Are we being sent back to square one? I don't know, Pollies, but you can never say never. If it's so, some people won't do well. It has always been my instinct to try to do well. Plus eating is a strong habit with me. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWAyne@aol.com), July 18, 1999.

Calling all fellow inhabitants of the Universe! Are you paying attention to what these crazy earthlings are up to? It's bad enough that they are hell bent on self-destruction but you can not let them get away with destroying the Universe! Help! Stop these nut cases.

-- =^..^= (helpus@insanity.com), July 18, 1999.

Just think - what kind of embedded chips exist in this accelerator, do they control any kind of safety function and are any of them date sensitive? If there are safety concerns about the nuclear power reactors, just imagine what kind of safety concerns there are with this!

-- (Oh Boy@y2k.com), July 18, 1999.

What a wacky world. The RHIC project has been in development for 8 years and we are just now hearing about it? A committee of international physicists has been convened to investigate the possibility that testing could create a black hole or that "the planet will disappear in the twinkling of an eye", only now that the project is complete and ready to test? (Compare this to the very public debate about genetic engineering and human cloning, the ethics committees involved, and preemptive legislation enacted to prohibit research.) What this article does not indicate is the intended purpose of the RHIC project (assuming it was NOT to develop technology that could destroy the Earth). Does it have a potential other than as the ultimate weapon of mass destruction?

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), July 18, 1999.

Doomers@suck.com is none other than the Known Liar; Stephen M. Poole.

Read his posts and then compare them to Poole's condescending writing style in the archives.

You will find they are a match.

OutingsR...do you concur?

-- HadEnuf (notakinit@nymore.com), July 18, 1999.

*******MAN PROPOSES----GOD DISPOSES*********HOW MANY YEARS HAVE WE BEEN FEARING THE BIG-ONE???? it ain,t over til HE say,s so. HITLER thought he was in control AND?

-- who,s in control???? (dogs@zianet.com), July 18, 1999.

This actually sounds like something one would find on "The Onion."

"Strange Quarks." That would be amusing, if it weren't so damn serious...

"... It is astonishingly unlikely that there is any risk - but I could not prove it..." Hmmm, sound familiar?

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), July 18, 1999.

What a strange, strange world ---- but, unfortunately, its no joke.

Also heard that there is a "small, but not 0%" risk that the genetic engineering being experimented with in the past few years will produce a "superbug", immune to any antibiotic or treatment.

You trolls can all laugh, but I wonder how many of these "small" risks the human race can stand. When you experiment with things of this magnitude that no-one fully understands ----------------

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), July 18, 1999.

J.Beck, the only blackhole these crakpots are creating is for taxpayer money. They have the hubris to believe they could cause such cataclisms because they are egotistical fatheads! But just think, if they could only cause a limited black hole that would stop at the Maryland border and the Penn. state line! Now were talking!

-- doktorbob (downsouth@dixie.com), July 18, 1999.

Brookhaven's website indicates that the RHIC project is funded by the DOE (to the tune of $600 mil). To quote, "RHIC's chief scientific goal is to replicate in microcosm a state of matter that has not existed since microseconds after the Big Bang." I guess the reason is...because they can?

Perhaps we should inform "crackpots" John Marburger (Ph.D., Applied Physics, Stanford University, 1967), Brookhaven's director who called for the investigative committee, and committee member Professor Robert Jaffe (Ph.D., Applied Physics, Stanford University, 1971), Director of the Center for Theoretical Physics at MIT, that their concerns are unfounded. We really do live in interesting times.

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), July 18, 1999.

Linda, you left the Cassini project off your list. (See http://www.animatedsoftware.com/cassini/mk9708so.htm -- A Scientific Critique of the Accident Risks from the Cassini Space Mission, by Dr. Michio Kaku, Henry Semat Professor of Theoretical Physics, Physics Department City University of New York: "If we carefully re- examine, line-by-line, the physics analysis behind NASA's Final Environmental Impact Statement, we find that the FEIS has consistently underestimated the possible risks of an accident with the Cassini space mission.") You know, Cassini's the space explorer with 72 pounds of plutonium aboard that's going to use a swing-by of earth to accelerate it into outer space. Unless it gets too close, by accident, and is sucked into our atmosphere . . . Due Aug. 18.

And I'm with you: It sure LOOKS like it's all converging at once, doesn't it! Hoooeeeeee!

-- Faith Weaver (suzsolutions@yahoo.com), July 19, 1999.

I don't think this is a big deal. I'm really curious to see what sorts of new things they might discover. Think of the benefits that could arise, for example, if they invented a kind of matter that would make interstellar travel possible! Or just as important, think about what it could mean for achieving a grand unified field theory linking gravity and electromagnetism!

As far as concerns about genetic engineering go, I and my peers do it all the time in the lab. You have nothing to worry about. Learn the science for yourself and you'll realize that the benefits far outstrip the consequences a million to 1. And by the way, nature does genetic engineering (through direct methods by DNA recombination or indirectly through mutation and natural selection) all the time--and a far better job of it than the scientists. Organisms created in the lab don't survive beyond the carefully-controlled parameters for which they were designed, far from being Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. Every time meiosis happens, our chromosomes "cross over" and reengineer themselves. Every time we mount an immune response, the genes of our antibodies, T cell receptors, etc. had been rearranged and cut and pasted by our own molecular "genetic engineers." Every time a virus infects your cells, it spits its genetic material into your body's tissues and changes the function of those cells. Nature thought of it first. Nature does it on a scale trillions of times more massive than humans do artificially.

Germ warfare? Maybe. So what's so new about that? It worked for the Indians when the British gave them blankets leaden with smallpox scabs. If anything, genetic engineering techniques will enable people to better survive a terrorist bioweapons attack.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), July 19, 1999.