Some of you older posters will remember me. I am a retired LEO from Los Angeles. In an attempt to combat boredom and to subsidise my pension, I went to work at a International retail store here in the deep south. To begin with, I have learned that most people under the age of 35 who work these very low paying jobs do not know how to read. At break time, I would pretend to have lost my glasses and asked fellow employees to read me a paragraph from a newspaper. Most would not even attempt it. Those that did, read at third grade level (even sounding out the words) Mind you, my little experiment crossed racial boundries.

As the polls reflect, all had heard of y2k but none believed that anything could happen. It was beyond their comprehension that the government could let anything happen. My short tenure at this well known retail outlet has been one of the most sobering experiences of my life.

The real enemy out there is ignorance of such limitless proportions that any bump in the road may derail our society.

I have always been critical of the administration's silence on the y2k issue but in light of my new found knowlege, they may be right in maintaining their silence. Most of you have intercourse with folks of your own level of education and life experience. So did I until I took my, "Scuba diving trip into minimum wage life."

Bill in South Carolina

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), July 17, 1999

Answers

As always, a great post, Bill.

Zev - Someone some once knew.

-- Zev Barak (zev@msn.com), July 17, 1999.

If ignorance is bliss, America is a very happy place. It can't stay that way forever.

Watch how important the JFK Jr. story becomes to us. The large bulk of people who can actually read anything are reading People magazine. Funny, I heard that the Chinese have Neutron bomb technology developed with materials they stole from us. Apparantly they are sabre rattling that information in response to Taiwans intransigence. But who cares because JFK junior got into a plane and crashed. Duh.

-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), July 17, 1999.

Bill,

My experiences sadly match yours with a significant percentage of the population out there.

While I am not a conspiracy theorist, it is getting more difficult every day to ignore the possibility that something is going on. How did we get so many people reaching adulthood without the ability to read and comprehend the written word?

I was always under the assumption that the human animal was a curious one. Maybe we have a "new man" today. He appears to have been shaped as a consumer. To consume you don't have to know, just spend.

I think you may well be right even a BITR might be a cataclysm.

-Greybear

-- Got Books?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), July 17, 1999.

Funny you should mention that Gordo,

Because all you do is hang around here and talk about Y2k, a thing that has not shown to cause a single death. Hmmm, I guess your not the only one who has got his priorities ass backwards.

Maybe you ought to start a forum about nuclear bombs. Seems to me that you'd be closer to your TEOTWAWKI scenario. At least you wouldn't get criticized as much. The nukes are going to be around after 1/1/00, after all, Y2K will not. You could be a doomer for the rest of your life!! wouldn't that be swell!

-- (doomers@suck.com), July 17, 1999.

As I read the responses to my post I realized that I had commited the stupidness of anonymity. I had worked for Walmart. My pension is as protected as that of OJ Simpson's. Should I fear a law suite? I did not mean to be cryptic, but so many other posters seem to be. Have y'all noticed that some posters will not even mention the state in which they live?

Please forgive me if I seem arrogant and short tempered. I have lurked and some time and contributed to this ng for a very long time. Time is running short. Nothing is happening. Even my DWGI wife is getting depressed because there is no good news.

Many of you speculate on how bad civil unrest and riots could be. I have gone through at least five of them in my professional career. They are terrifying. The most terrified is the poor old cop who has nothing to do with any of the percieved events that started the whole thing and is still the target for both sides of the issue. Gilbert and Sullivan had it right. You know, "A policemans life?"

Prepare yourselves. Grab hold of your ankles and standby for a ram. There ain't nothin good commin down the pike.

Bill in South Carolina

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), July 17, 1999.

Bill,

It's actually surprising that some of your coworkers could sound out the words. As a result of our education system's failed experiment on our children, a lot of young adults do not know phonics. Our national illiteracy rate is probably much higher than statistics would indicate, because so many were forced to learn to "fake" the ability to read and write once they entered the workplace. Y2k is a very complicated issue and, given the time restrictions of televised soundbites, one couldn't begin to grasp its implications without the ability to read and comprehend.

Gordon, I'm sure you're right about the upcoming media feeding frenzy surrounding JFK, Jr. Without a doubt, if a poll were taken to determine how many people know how to locate China or Taiwan on a map, why (or even IF) there are tensions between them, or what a neutron bomb iswell, you can predict the results. OTOH, JFK, Jr. made People magazine's poll of the sexiest men in America! China is NOT sexy, and neither is Y2Kalso, they don't provide good photo-ops for those who are reading-impaired.

Still, perhaps unlike Bill, I will hold the administration and our dot gov officials responsible for their silence on Y2K. If we, as a nation, can be induced to pay income taxes because we have been taught to fear the IRS, we can certainly be taught that our JIT lifestyle may soon endanger our very lives, despite our inability to read. Even though many haven't been taught critical thinking, the rudimentary logic of cause and effect is hardwired in our brains when it comes to basic survival: if I do not eat, I die; if I have no water, I die; if there is no heat in sub-zero temperatures, I die. Our officials tell us to expect the equivalent of a winter storm, which many would agree is understated. Still, they only tell us this in print media, and sparingly. If the silence continues, and Y2K is the equivalent of a snowstorm, many will be unpreparedand some could die.

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), July 17, 1999.

I once interviewed a young girl for a part time job at my book shop. I used an old fashioned, brass cash register, which didn't show how much change the customer would get back. She said she couldn't work for me as she didn't know how to make change and count it back to the customer. Can you believe it?

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), July 17, 1999.

Gilda:

I can believe she didn't know what she'd never needed to learn. What's disturbing is that she didn't seem willing to spend the 30 seconds or so it would take to do something that simple.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), July 17, 1999.

Flint, just maybe she was scared and lacked the confidence that would be needed to learn the skill in 30 seconds.

What's disturbing to me is that you could not understand something this SIMPLE !!

Any chance you will answer my question with regard to if you receive any form of remuneration for participating on this or any other forum??

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), July 17, 1999.

Our society has various income levels. It has always been known that a lower educated person could get nothing more then the minimum wage job. For these people that is basicly what they are happy with, if not, they would go to night school and learn! Hell, I am 40 and am continuing my education--working on 2 Degrees. I happen to love to learn. And yes I know there are kids who can't count change. But if they had to, they would learn if the job required it..People can change if they want to.. I believe we as a nation could.. but it would take a major disaster for people to wake up!!

-- Cassandra (american_storm@usa.net), July 17, 1999.

You want some fun, go into a McDonalds or Burger King and order. Wait till they ring it up then add money to get an even amount back. For example if its 10.85 give them $16.00 then watch the fun as they try to fiqure out how much you have comming back now that the computer register can't help them. I swear I saw smoke comming out of one kids ears. Another one almost gave me a twenty back in change!

-- kozak (kozak@formerusaf.guv), July 17, 1999.

Bill,

As I was reading another thread yesterday, I thought one of the reasons so few people know about Y2k is because people no longer READ. If it is not on television or radio most people are in the dark.

As we all know, Y2k is NOT a MEDIA event. You have to be able and willing to read to find out about Y2k. Most people either can't or won't.

-- Linda A. (adahi@muhlon.com), July 17, 1999.

On another thread, we have been trying to shake some sense into Decker about some of the critical declines in our culture since 1974. Try the abysmal state of educational competence and "ordinary" historical and political knowledge.

My 84-yr old father didn't graduate high school and knew/knows more math, science and history than most AA degree students today, if not more.

The decline since 1974 hasn't been as steep but it is real and I can see in the peers of my just now adult two older children.

... And, believe this: the decline slope is still pointing further downward.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), July 17, 1999.

If you've never worked a modern cash register, please don't criticize those who have problems doing so. Some of the damn things are VERY poorly designed & confusing as hell. I worked on one a few years ago & couldn't believe what a pain in the ass piece of shit it was. As a result I'm now very patient with all check-out clerks.

Also, while it's obvious to you what 16 minus 10.25 is, you might try calculating it while staring at a mass of unrelated numbers with several already-annoyed customers breathing down your neck, ready to jump on you if you make a mistake. I'd rather clean cages at the zoo.

-- not working at (a@register.anymore), July 17, 1999.

Dear not working; You count change up. You do not do subtration in your head. As far as the regs. go, you are correct, most are junk.

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), July 17, 1999.

I dropped out of high school at 15. Yes, a year early. I hid out until my sixteenth to avoid truancy issues given how illegal it was (and still is?) to exit the .edu system pre-16. I dropped out at the end of ninth grade and simply didn't re-enter the next school year.

When I left I had a 2.8 GPA, which is what, a mediocre C? If that high? My basic-skills tests maxed out the bell curve; I missed five Qs on the whole damn test of like 1,200 Qs.

I tried my hand at college the next year, at 16 years of age. I talked to one fellow about my interest in electronics. He was the head of the EE section at the college (which, BTW, offered Baccalaureate (sp?) and Master's programs in EE.) and was himself a Ph.D. in electronics engineering. He told me simply that if I could pass the entrance exam, the college HAD to accept me.

I took their standard entrance exam, and nobody there aside from him knew my age. I passed the exam and was granted admission to a private college at age sixteen. At the end of the first semester I held a 4.33 GPA and helped teach the digital-fundamentals and basic AC/DC theory classes. The students built basic counter circuits, and I in the same timeframe built what would have been a nice time-delay bomb detonator. [grin]

I never did complete the degree courses thanks to life's changes, but I still have a potent enough amount of expertise that I can do almost anything relating to electronics that I want.

Hell, I passed the FCC Amateur Radio license tests by simply reading through the question pools for two days. I later took the G.E.D. exam series and scored 324 points. I only needed 220 to pass.

I can program computers and microcontrollers using any of several languages, can decipher/read and edit almost ANY programming lang. on any platform if I really want/need to, and have done things with Visual Basic that I've been told by MS certified Solution Providers wasn't possible to do with that language.

I am unstoppable. I can learn anything. I can DO anything. I own.

Why?

I can read. Very well. Was read to as a youngster, taught to read as soon as I expressed any interest, and was given as much access to books as I could stand.

My parents have NEVER been more than working-lower-middle-class, both very intelligent if not necessarily high-income. They are excellent readers and taught me well.

I don't buy the idea of poor environment being the harbinger of ignorance and lack of education. It's the upbringing. If you want to have more intelligent offspring, they MUST learn to read and they MUST be given that love of reading. Period. No ifs, ands, and buts.

If the ignorant were exposed to more reading as children they'd not be nearly as ignorant. How do I know? I live in an area filled with the ignorant, namely rednecks that sadly match most every facet of the stereotype. And yes, this lack of reading skill is precisely WHY they match the stereotypes.

It's sad that people are this far off kilter, given how simple the solution would have been when they were younger...

OddOne, who had the vocab of a college professor at age 12, according to the tests...

-- OddOne (mocklamer_1999@yahoo.com), July 17, 1999.

It's called OUTCOME BASED EDUCATION, folks. And it is not a *failed* experiment. It has actually been quite successful.

You would have needed to be raised in an era when critical thinking skills were endorsed and encouraged to understand, though.

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), July 18, 1999.

Oh and by the way, 40 years ago there was no such thing as attention deficit disorder or dislexia. Period.

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), July 18, 1999.

"Oh and by the way, 40 years ago there was no such thing as attention deficit disorder or dislexia. Period. "

True. There was no diabetes, heart disease, or cancer, either. What a wonderful time to be alive. Period.

-- praise the lord (pass@the.insulin), July 18, 1999.

I'm sure you guys don't mean to critisize, but let me point out that many of your and my ancestors couldn't read either. They didn't need to know how to read, they were farmers. I think it is a shame that people who can't read are treated as second class when there is surely a lot they can do. I know that wasn't your point, I'd just avoid the "rednecks" jokes because what do you think your great- grandfather was?

-- Amy (leoneamy@aol.com), July 19, 1999.

Dear Amy,

You are one of those under 35? None of our ancestors attended school for 12 years and then were not able to read. Not one. Never was so much money spent per student; and with such poor results.

A bright high school sophomore owed me money. I went to collect and acted dumb. I told him you owe me 7.5 hrs @ $10/hr. He struggled mentally and was not able to figure it out. I hinted: "I think that you move the decimal point." Still no result.

He picked up his calculator and it still took him a minute to get the right answer: $75.

If our ancestors could not compute such a simple arithmetic problem, they would have remained stuck in the second grade until the age of 14 or 16.

Since our present denial/ignorance/stupidity/inability is so pervasive and blankets the continent, one has to ask the question: "How did we fall to such a low level? Is it a giant conspiracy? Or is it simply that space aliens sucking our brain cells out while we are sleeping?

Amy, I feel truly sorry for you, and for our country.

Are you a teacher?

-- Not Again! (Seenit@ww2.com), July 19, 1999.