First, I would like to express my appreciation to all of those who made this new Forum become a reality. This is my first post here, and it is categorized under the Preparations  General Section.

We are all preparing for adversity on this Forum. Many of us have a goal to become as independent as possible from the fragile infrastructure that we previously had just taken for granted. For those of us that have this goal in mind, should we think of our preps as leading to self-reliance or self-sufficiency?

I have used the terms self-reliance and self-sufficiency interchangeably, thinking that they are actually the same thing. But are they? Perhaps this is just a matter of semantics. What do these two terms have in common, and where do they part company? Is it more appropriate to be using one term over the other on this Forum, or when discussing Y2K preps and our goals with others?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), July 07, 1999

Answers

Very much ditto the kudos. This forum was a great idea. Can browse and learn here without getting myself in trouble. Thanks to all responsible.

Selfsufficent is a condition. Selfreliant is an aptitude (attitude?).

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), July 07, 1999.

Decker's differentiation between self-sufficiency (which is a chimera, not attainable) and self-reliance was a good one. In some ways, though, it is a "difference without a difference." Increased self-reliance certainly means we are more self-sufficient.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), July 08, 1999.

Rob,

For me, self-sufficency is a life long goal. I can not remember when it has not been my objective. Even when I was too young to know which direction I would take to reach my goal (and then I read Mother Earth News Issue 1, and the rest is history...but that is another story).

Self-reliency then, to me, is the accumulation of skills and the means to utilize those skills, one step at a time, building more skills and knowledge as we go. Gaining self-reliency then is the measure of progress towards being or becoming self-sufficent.

I do not believe that any of us can become truely self-sufficent. But our progress towards that end can be measured in degrees by how much control we gain over our lives in the process; and how immune we are to the day to day disruptions beyond our control; and how we allow those disruptions to affect our happiness and sustenance. This is how I measure my progress towards self-sufficency anyways, by how much control I have over my personal choices, timing and opportunities.

But then along comes Y2K, an event over which we have no control. It will test our self-reliency, our skills and preparations, in possibly a most unforgiving manner. And we won't have the luxury of a "second take" on our preparations.

Geez, I hope I get this one right the first time!

-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), July 08, 1999.

Agree about the new forum. I like it :) Thanks!!!!!! (especially BD and Chuck who have to play hall monitor for us.)

Homesteader, you sure nailed it -- self sufficiency is a goal, self-reliance is a measure of how far along we are toward that goal.

I question if any of us would be truly happy if we were forced to be self sufficient......like Robinson Crusoe on a desert island. Being more self reliant gives us a choice in our lives. I'm finding that it's a choice I never had before, and I like having those choices.

Just little things. We have power outages routinely where I live (mountains), so that adding some batteries, a generator, and inverter gives me a hand up on living a better day-to-day routine. I was heading toward DC last Christmas and got caught in the lead edge of that ice storm that hit Virginia. Nice to know that we had a full BOB in the car. Folks around here just think it's sensible for me to have extra food in the house ....... when we get snow I don't have to run out and grab bread/milk off the shelf of the only little store in miles. Good way to live. That's being self reliant, relying on myself and family, rather than on the outside world, for my choices.

-- de (delewis@Xinetone.net), July 08, 1999.

Agree about the new forum. I like it :) Thanks!!!!!! (especially BD and Chuck who have to play hall monitor for us.)

Homesteader, you sure nailed it -- self sufficiency is a goal, self-reliance is a measure of how far along we are toward that goal.

I question if any of us would be truly happy if we were forced to be self sufficient......like Robinson Crusoe on a desert island. Being more self reliant gives us a choice in our lives. I'm finding that it's a choice I never had before, and I like having those choices.

Just little things. We have power outages routinely where I live (mountains), so that adding some batteries, a generator, and inverter gives me a hand up on living a better day-to-day routine. I was heading toward DC last Christmas and got caught in the lead edge of that ice storm that hit Virginia. Nice to know that we had a full BOB in the car. Folks around here just think it's sensible for me to have extra food in the house ....... when we get snow I don't have to run out and grab bread/milk off the shelf of the only little store in miles. Good way to live. That's being self reliant, relying on myself and family, rather than on the outside world, for my choices.

-- de (delewis@Xinetone.net), July 08, 1999.

IMHO, the world is too populated and too interconnected for self- sufficiency for any length of time to be realistic. All of us strive for that goal within the realities of whatever society inwhich we live.

Being self-reliant for a period of time seems crucial with Y2K looming. I think it can also become an opportunity to be more self- reliant, not needing to go to the store so often for needed supplies. But that said, all of us are fallible, both mentally and physically, and we will need each other to get through this. How to engage with other people, determine whether they are a threat or a help when need arises is really important to consider ahead of the event. In my case, for instance, I have DGI neighbors, but an active block watch program for many years. One is a doctor, a fact I am reassured by, if need arises.

Just some thoughts. Thank you all for yours.

Regards.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), July 08, 1999.

All: Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I understand the differences between the two terms finally.

Lilly: Your remark about not getting a second chance made me think a bit. If we dont get this one right the first time, will there be a second chance? Perhaps. I havent really given this much thought. I guess it still comes down to being as prepared and self- reliant as possible. Thats all any of us can do. Not much in life is cut and dry, so there will be those that do get second chances, and those that dont. By increasing our self-reliance, I think we may also be increasing the odds of second chances too.

Leslie: Your post reminded me of something that really hit me when I read it over a year ago. It was just a remark that lone families will not survive (if Y2K is really severe). I have believed and consistently posted that we need each other in order to get through this. The worse it is, the more this is true. That is just one reason that I am still warning people and ringing the Y2K alarm bells. I know my opinion to continue doing this is in the minority. I dont care. I am compelled to do it. It is right for me. Just as you are reassured by that Doctor, others may be reassured by YOU. Engaging other people works for me too. Thanks for your post.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), July 08, 1999.

Self-sufficiency, to me, refers to a sustainable closed system, requiring no inputs from the outside what-so-ever. It refers to an entire system. A self-sufficient person may, however, choose to trade for luxuries that aren't strictly necessary for survival, though they can easily slip into becoming dependant on others without being aware of it.

Self-reliance, on the other hand, doesn't necessarily imply an indefinitely sustainable system. A person can become more and more self-reliant by stocking up on supplies made by others, without improving in the slightest their self sufficiency.

-- Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr near Monterey, California (addy.available@my.webpage.neener.autospammers--regrets.greenspun), July 13, 1999.