First, thanks for those who responded to my previous post declaring that "I'm fried".

Now here's one of a more careful articulation of one of the symptoms. About six months ago I asked the pollys in all sincerity why they post on this web. They are nuttier than us to the extent that they are wasting their time on something they perceive to be fictitious. I do not believe in UFOs, yet have never pondered going to the UFO site to debunk them. In any event, the answers I got were not fully satisfying.

Now I'm seeing more patterns in their madness. This new troll by the name "Sista" (a white guy who got a C- in Ebonics 101) keeps contributing stories that are just happy talk of little content. Poole rocks the boat from a pretty sophisticated vantage point (i.e., he may be misguided but he's not stupid contrary to popular opinion.) Paul Davis and y2k pro seem very intelligent to me (again ignoring their stances on y2k). Al.d seems so out there that I can't believe he can turn his computer on.

So I return to my number two question (second to why the big public disconnect): Why do these guys post here? My conclusion: There is an organized effort to keep this board looking like it's on the fringe. Remember the discussion on the Naval War College site describing the power struggle between the Owls and the Roosters? I reiterate here that I am not a conspiracy kind of guy, but I'm smelling something here that just doesn't add up.

Thoughts?

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), July 07, 1999

Answers

Dave,

Yes, I rather think there is both an organized orchestrated agenda going on... several in fact... and the disorganized bumbling of, well, amateurs. (The c4i saga illuminated that one nicely. Everybody and their grandmother flew out of the woodwork then. A fascinating lesson in agendas IMHO.)

Diane

BTW, Daves earlier, excellent post... is quite worth the read.

One unequivocal fact...

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 0012jl

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 07, 1999.

Yes the trolling is an organized effort it is obvious. The govt must hve put the word out to debunk and deflect all critical y2k Info. To much critical info has leaked out the cracks. The problem is real big bad and ugly. What we are seeing now is what the company calls containment and misinformation tactic. Expect it to increase up until the start of what the Pentagon has deemed the period of y2k transistion that starts on Sept 1 1999 -March 20 2000 . Y2k is considered a critical national security matter.

-- y2k aware mike (y2k aware mike @ conservation . com), July 07, 1999.

All these trolls could possibly be responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Maybe even millions!

They will get their reward when they face their Maker on their Judgment day. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes then!

-- smitty (smitty@sandiego.com), July 07, 1999.

If you pay attention, you will notice that the trolls habitually sidetrack threads with substance. Sometimes the threads recover and sometimes they lose their momentum. The best way to deal with them is to pretend you don't see them. When you bite their bait, we all lose valuable discussions.

-- Looky Lou (watching@seeyou.org), July 07, 1999.

The idea that the trolls are organized doesn't make any sense to me, nor is it a "necessary" theory, going by the philosophical principle "Occam's Razor," which means take the simplest explanation. The simplest explanation--to me--is that each has his/her own agenda. That agenda might be to combat his/her own inner fears, or to show how smart he/she is, going up against a smart groups such as this. Never mind. As Diane says, "There's still Y2K..." There's a lot of great information on this board. God bless the trolls. May they be safe and well when this thing hits.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWAyne@aol.com), July 07, 1999.

Dave wrote:

"y2k pro seem[s] very intelligent to me..."

Do you have Y2K Pro mixed up with another polly? I've never seen him/her/it post ANYTHING useful. Y2K Pro's only contributions seem to be to denigrate anyone and everyone who thinks Y2K might be a problem.

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), July 07, 1999.

Looky Lou:

Interesting point. I can't remember the topic, but I started a thread some time back and was dismayed to find that it died because of some serious fanatacism which immediately followed. I felt a little cheated.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), July 07, 1999.

Hi Dave:

I wondered a similar thing myself last month or so. Your point about not going to UFO forums to debunk is critical to the whole discussion -- I don't "get" golf, but I haven't even given a thought to the idea that I should go to golfing sites to tell golfers not to waste their money or time on such a sham.

But I don't believe that a government effort is behind debunking TB2K. This is why: the "debunking" lacks depth -- most of what I've seen is hysteria, SHOUTING, and name-calling...attempts at logical arguments are lame and rely on PR releases. When a serious y2k piece is posted (such as the Air Force magazine one on another thread), there is NO debunking attempted. In that piece, John Hamre says "I wake up in a cold sweat" worrying about y2k one night out of five -- but, hey, where are the debunkers for John Hamre?

However, I do believe that there is a semi-organized effort to extinguish this forum -- and it comes from a handful of sad and pathetic individuals who apparently frequent debunking sites. I suspect, from the truly hysterical nature of some of their postings, that these people aren't merely on a "holy mission" to help us misguided souls come back to our senses....no, the efforts to have MIT dump the forum are more than that.

What we are seeing over there, I suspect, is the last frenzied desperate efforts at denial -- grown huge and ugly -- bent on destroying the source of threat to their security: those who understand the possible dangers of y2k.

I am no stranger to denial. The first day I heard about y2k was the June 1997 issue of Newsweek -- and I spent that day raving about the apocalyptic nuts and rumor-peddlers who were doing nothing more than trying to sell magazines on slow news days. I totally discounted y2k, completely ignored it, felt incredible anger when a collegue brought it up to me months later in March, 1998, asking, "So, what do you think of this y2k thing?"

Geez, why was I so angry?

Because somewhere, deep inside, a little voice was trying to tell me that the game was up -- that my cozy comfy little secure status quo world was going to be shaken at its very foundations by something so small I couldn't even see it.

I didn't WANT to see it. Didn't want to believe it. Fought the whole concept as if my life depended on it......

March 18, 1998, I got on the internet and hunted with the desperation of the condemned for SOMETHING, ANYTHING that would convince me the doomongers were wrong....stayed on the internet for the next two weeks.....and Got It.

Then, of course, the anger was replaced by that which it had hidden: fear....but we all know THAT story.

In essense, my story is the same as those who try to debunk this forum -- they are stuck where I was after reading the Newsweek. Angry, ranting, resentful, refusing to consider even the POSSIBILITY -- and this is the heart of denial. They cannot allow themselves to even think of the possibility that their world may be fragile, tenuous, insecure. It is just too frightening. They will fight will all their efforts --now, growing more illogical, unreasonable, demanding, insistant. At their hearts, the little voice keeps calling...

And they fear. The creature backed into a corner, snarling, raging at everything that threatens.

But time is so short. We must not let ourselves be detoured into the maze of their confusion. Just keep plugging on, doing what you must. Preparation never hurt anyone; lack of preparedness kills.

Anita Evangelista

-- Anita Evangelista (ale@townsqr.com), July 07, 1999.

Nabi:

That's my point. He seems smart enough to be rational, yet posts what seems to be irrational in light of the data.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), July 07, 1999.

But Mara - isn't simpler still to assume that you only need one "officially sponsored" troll to support and encourage several amateur trolls?

I would be actually disappointed to think that Mr K's office does not monitor and try to "re-direct" or "re-program" this forum - if he does not, he is more technically incompetent than morally bankrupt, and is not merely being manipulated by the administration to save the banking industry. He (and his staff) really don't know what is going on, and aren't interested in finding out what the "other side" thinks.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 07, 1999.

IMHO Trolls lack the vision thingy, there is no way that a government agency could think up something so useless as the Debunker bored. People go there to see chuck rant to himself?

What I can't understand is the bunkers worry about folks getting ripped off, well this can be believed, but there isn't anyone here that is selling anything. (very few anyway). They should at least achieve their mandate and go after the hucksters ripping off folk and leave us "non profits" alone.

Attacking here defeats this, nothing bugs me more than people "selling prep information" or any Y2K information that is not technical in nature. Anyone can come here and get information for free. Long live the internet.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 07, 1999.

Dave,

So repost your hi-jacked thread and see what happens.

Anita Evangelista,

Your comments reminded me of this...

Y2K Five-Stage Grief Cycle

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000tJE

Today... seems like a calm T (uh, pigwidgeon) day. So far.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 07, 1999.

smitty,

how do you come up with 100,000's possibly millions of deaths due to trolls? do you believe that all the forums combined on the internet are accessed by anywhere near that number of people? and even if they were are you suggesting that trolls cast some sort of spell causing people not to prepare. for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. trolls serve a very useful purpose on these threads. they counter the arguements of the lunatic fringe that are insisting on the end of the world. they bring those who haven't yet made up their minds back to the center of the is

-- corrine l (corrine@iwaynet.net), July 07, 1999.

Don't you know that trolls prevent people from preparing? That's how they cause 1 million deaths.

Dave, so what? What if trolls were organized? What would you do about it? Ignore them maybe? A troll is a poster who can push your buttons. Simply don't reveal your buttons and they will go away. Why do you feel so threatened by trolls (and don't say you're not; when you pose this question, you implied the threat)?

-- Thoughts (for@youto.ponder), July 07, 1999.

"Thoughts":

I feel threatened by trolls if and only if they are an organized group designed to disseminate bad information or prevent dissemination of good information. Otherwise, they only leave me perplexed that a seemingly intelligent person (this excludes some of those mentioned) looks at the same data and draws a conclusion that is diametrically opposed to the one I have drawn. As a scientist, I can assure you that this should trouble me. I work in a very complex (non-code head) discipline that constantly tests my ability to keep all the puzzle pieces in view until the puzzle is solved. The trolls are a piece of the puzzle.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), July 07, 1999.

So now we get to the heart of the question. According to you trolls are those that oppose you viewpoint (they only leave me perplexed that a seemingly intelligent person looks at the same data and draws a conclusion that is diametrically opposed to the one I have drawn). The world doesn't revolve around you and it's not flat. By definition a troll is someone who wants to elicit a response from you with the intention of getting "under your skin". This does not necessarily imply that trolls give their opinions or conclusions, but simply that they post things which will make you jump. Someone who opposes your viewpoint is not a troll. Someone (even seemingly intelligent people) can oppose your viewpoint and not be labeled a troll because by your definition you are a troll to that someone.

-- Thoughts (for@youto.ponder), July 07, 1999.

Huh - corrine,

Chlorea (in one city) from an infected water supply could kill that many (100,000) in a matter of only a few days....from an infection that only takes hours (or minutes) to to have been created.

Now, explain it again, please. Why do you persist in deliberately continuing to discourage people from preparing for an unpredictable future?

What's in it for you? What do you gain by discouraging people from preparing?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 07, 1999.

Of course we're organized. We have decoder rings, secret handshakes and there's even talk about starting a union! We all get our marching orders from Hillary - and let me tell you, she is one tough taskmaster

Some of you may have guessed already, but there is a Polly training school, deep in an underground bunker located somewhere in Colorado (I'd get kicked out if I spilled the beans on the exact location...) In this bunker we have a fake Yourdon Website that we practice and refine our trolling tactics on. We have had our personalities developed for us by Hillary and Koskinen themselves. (I was desperate to be Flint, but Hillary had her way - as usual!)

Why an organized approach?

Because our masters in the illuminati see the threat that this powerful forum might have on the citizenry if the TRUTH should somehow get out.

As faithful servants of the NWO, it is our job to obscure that truth, obviate the messages of the truthful, and prevent real Americans from knowing the awful veridicality of the situation.

p.s. We wear blue U.N. berets when we're typing

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), July 07, 1999.

Want to see a thread that struck me as being very unusual? Look at the thread at the following link, which was started by an "optimist" who claims to be from Canada:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000zbJ

"Any reports posted on Virginia meeting??"

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), July 07, 1999.

Y2K Pro... that is the first thing I have EVER seen you post, that indicates you're human... and even have a sense of humor!

Dave,

Notice the sideways slip on this thread as "they" attack the messengers, not the message?

Ignore, em.

Recently, a good lot of 'em have amply demonstrated their "bunker" is actually "romper room re-visited."

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 07, 1999.

Mutha ranted --

"why does the new high priestess of the Stinkbomb let "out-a-your-mind" cross-post every other post from other forums? Do you really expect everyone to just stay silent when crap like that goes on?"

You mean like THIS cross-post, Mutha --

http://www.smu.edu/cgi-bin/Nova/get/gn/1115/1/1.html

SSSHHHHHH

Forum: Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot Forum

Date: Apr 08, 03:14

From: Cherri

Just between you and I and the lamp post (C.S. Lewis) we are planning on taking over and defusing the timeBomb.

Here's the complete thread so people can go look and decide if it was a joke or not.

1115. I think I'm home now..... by Deano, Apr 07, 14:35

1. Hello Deano by Jonathan Latimer, Apr 08, 01:28 1. SSSHHHHHH by Cherri, Apr 08, 03:14

1. Count me in...... by Deano, Apr 08, 07:44

2. That sounds like fun! by Maria, Apr 08, 13:53

1. I did......just hard to find the time.... by Deano, Apr 09, 08:28

3. Now, now Cherri, you know how the good folks at EY..... by Morgan, Apr 09, 08:25

2. Thanks dude! A little background for yall..... by Deano, Apr 08, 07:56

And remember, Mutha, if there weren no trolls to out, there would be no OutingsR, OutingsR2, OutingsR3, and the rest. Trolls were trolling long before OutingsRs were outing.

-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), July 07, 1999.

Why the disruption here? I don't know, but it does make you wonder.

For example, in his "apology", Stephen Poole said...

[snip]

If you people would be honest with yourselves, you'd admit that the REAL source of your malaise is that I am being proven right with each passing day -- and you are being proven WRONG (I apologize for pointing THAT fact out, too, but it needs to be pointed out).

[snip]

People aren't panicking right now. The public is not going to grow concerned if Mr. Poole is correct about Y2K news being good and getting better with each passing day.

So why are people like him still here if they don't believe in risk assessment and contingency planning for Y2K?

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), July 07, 1999.

Linkmeister,

You're referring to this?...

Thanks for the report, Walt.

One thing you did not mention, but that is of interest to me (and perhaps to others who read this forum): a list of names / handles of people who post here and were also at the gathering.

Regards

Johnny

-- Johnny Canuck (j_canuck@hotmail.com), June 24, 1999.

He's a DB "pigwidgeon," Linkmeister. Probably attempting to add names to cpr's "FBI lists."

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 07, 1999.

And Linkmeister,

Rarely do they read threads like this one...

Midnight Crossing: Calling all "Big Brain" Y2k Debunkers: Debunk this!
FROM THE JULY, 1999 ISSUE OF AIR FORCE MAGAZINE:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 0013HA

[snip]

The biggest fear is that, even in modernized nations that have been working diligently to lessen the impact of Y2K, a cascading effect will occur. In the worst-case scenario, even systems that have been meticulously tested as Y2K compliant rapidly will be infected with the Y2K bug as a result of their connection to noncompliant systems through the Internet or other networks. Further, they, in turn, will contaminate others.

The Digital Snowball

The result could be a digital snowball that wipes out whole sectors of the infrastructure on which modern societies have been built, from major communications and transportation nodes to entire power grids.

[snip--to end]

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 07, 1999.

Diane,

Yes, that's what I'm referring to.

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), July 07, 1999.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/0799midnight.html

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), July 07, 1999.

Sometimes a nasty person is just a nasty person.

But most of these trolls seem like part of the family now, and just as if we had a guest over to dinner (i.e., newbies on the forum), we'd have to explain to them why Uncle Harry falls asleep face down in his soupbowl.

However, I like to keep my eyes open for true pros. Leading candidate (unless she just REALLY loves us all so much she can't bear to be away) is corrine 1.

"She" has LOTS of time to spend here, so she isn't spending much time at any other job every day. Wouldn't be a paid position, would it?

"She" reads EVERY thread, apparently, posts quickly and somewhat apropos to the discussion, but staying out of any real commitment to the dialogue (until a tiny bit, recently). You can tell she doesn't really care about y2k one way or the other but she knows a fair amount about it on background, spends hours a day at the keyboard working through it.

Sounds like a pro to me. Won't give up if not "fed", like the ordinary troll. Mission: destroy or damage target forum.

She is the closest to a paid operative likely put in our midst -- not one of the Buffy amateurs, but someone sent to clog and distract. Absorb enough of our energy to keep us from going anywhere. Smart, intuitive, subtle. (At least, in early days here.) Used sexual come- ons to troll for reactions.

BTW, our participants have done an EXCELLENT job of not falling into argument with 'her', and she seems to have "evolved" a bit in recent days, getting into the discussions a little more. She also seems to be slowing down her responses, sounding a little less glib. It will be interesting to see if she evolves as a person, beyond just showing up for work everyday. (Wouldn't it be fun to see her weekly activity and result reports back to her superiors?)

Also, a warning came on another thread. DON'T E-MAIL ANY TROLL! They may capture your address for some spamming purpose.

This forum so far has shown its value, its ability to vex those with a trollish urge to break good things, and its strength under such attack. Congratulations to all!

-- C.U. (down@the.beach), July 07, 1999.

Uh oh....this thread is getting international.

Diane and Linkmeister seem to think that little old me (Johnny Canuck) is a debunker stooge who is just doing some of CPR's dirty work by asking about the Virginia gathering. [By the way, the closest I have ever got to Virginia was attending an Orioles game at Camden Yards on 23 May 99.]

FWIW, I *am* a real Canadian (with the funny ooot and aboooot accent, and all) and I *am* an optimist (thank you Linkmeister for not using the P word).

My interest in the Virginia gathering was purely harmless; I was wondering how people actually interacted when faced with a live human being across the table who might not share their Y2K world-view. In the virtual world we can get pretty carried away with invective, but face-to-face we tend to moderate the expression of our views (although the views themselves usually remain unchanged).

I know that I sometimes request further "proof" from some posters. If you consider Flint credible, then you can ask him if he has had an e- mail a couple of weeks ago from Johnny Canuck which gave Johnny's real-world name and a few details about him.

Diane and Link (and anybody else for that matter) is welcome to e- mail me at the hotmail address (it's real) and pose questions that only a Canadian would know the answer to (hockey and obscure Canadian politicians are my specialties [I know, most Canadian politicians are obscure....pop quiz...no looking...name the Prime Minister of Canada?])

Man, oh man - if the Olympics added an event called "Fabricating Conspiracies" then America would take home gold, silver and bronze....

Yours from the tundra

-- Johnny Canuck (j_canuck@hotmail.com), July 07, 1999.

Actually, Corrine 1 is our original troll. And very amusing lately (funniest act ever), IMO. Corrine 1 is an engineer who is probably very wired, both at home and work.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), July 07, 1999.

I believe it's Terrance. Or is it Phillip? I get 'em mixed up (FWWTT!!)

-- talk aboot South (P@r.k), July 07, 1999.

Mutha,

Would you call the people at this link pessimists?

http://www.afa.org/magazine/0799midnight.html

If not, what would you call them?

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), July 07, 1999.

Linkmeister,

"They" don't call them... the AF types... they run from them. Then "wink" and wiggle and squirm. Anything but take on the real Y2K challenge.

Diane

(Does puzzle me why Johnny Canuck didn't just ask Decker directly on DB. And why on earth would he think people here would want the "e" him when he hangs out over there, and posts what he does. 'Tis a puzzlement... eh, Linkmeister?).

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 07, 1999.

One of Mutha's favorite names for us is dungbeetles. But Der Boonkahs like to use a bunch of different insulting names for us. The following came from about a week's worth of post TITLES over at De Vomitorium -- what WOULD we have found if we'd gone through all the posts???

Doomzies, the Flying Pig's Pen, Doomlits, extremists, EY's Pit, Doom Zombies, Doom Droids, YourToastEd&Fried (ref. to EY), Profit of Doom (ref. to EY), the bile of [TB2000], Yourdon "Flying Pigs," Fogged-Up Female Space Cadet Fuhrer (ref. to Diane Squire), Typical Smear Drivel, Staff Zombie, Mind Control Central, high priest of the Kult, pure totalitarianism, Secret Thought Police, the Planning Department of the EY Screen Writers Guild and Choreographers' Guidance Committee, Losing Fans of the Fear Kult Team, Diane 'Mother Hen' Effect, High Priestess (ref. to Diane), "computer expert and noted author"...hmm, "Noted Mayor" Marion Barry says crack smoking is cool! (ref. to EY), Why they can't take dissent on The Swamp during the Death Spiral: Mind Control, Rodents and the Outside Spot Light, THE EY "BURY THE THREADS UNDER GIBBERISH" TECHNIQUE, The Pit is an E-commerce backed effort.COMPLETE WITH LIES, HYPE, SMEARS, AND PROPAGANDA, They unduly influence others to act based on Fear, Liesk, Hype and ulterior motives. MEME SUCKERS, SCUMBAGS, SHILL SCUMBAGS...and so it goes.

Only a week, only the titles of the posts. There WAS a thread where we were called a bunch of Nazis for instituting a moderating team but we must have overlooked that one.

-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), July 07, 1999.

Paranoia has hit a new high on this forum.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), July 07, 1999.

Hey Outings, what about me? I'm affectionately known as "the Creature" by cpr, you know.

But I'm still a little pissed that I didn't get a Flying Pig award.

-- a (a@a.a), July 07, 1999.

What I'd like to know, is where does everyone find the time to check out all these other forums? I barely have enough time to sift through a few thread on this forum. Some I'd really like to read, but just don't have time. Not only do you read all the debunker forums, you get into flame wars with their participants, and they with you.

No wonder people get so rabid about Y2K, as much time as they spend on the Net checking out all the other sites. Guess I need an efficiency expert to help me plan my time better.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), July 07, 1999.

Johnny C.

Forgive them for they do not know. Keep on posting buddy, us Canadians have to press our case for sanity eh?

Real beer for all!

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 07, 1999.

Trolls are the life blood of this forum. Trolls may not bring balance, but they bring an Alternative Life View. Y2K=BAD maybe, Y2K=AoK maybe. No one KNOWs the answser. We must all go though the PROCESS (how bout that for a liberal point of view!!!) It is a PROCESS, Ed left, who could have seen that?,. Cory is going to explode from douhnut over load, who could have seen that? Gary was on the leading edge (and fell off) OK several people saw that comming.

The point is, Time is short, drink a beer, enjoy

Every day is a new day, God gave it to you to enjoy.

Consider the alternative.

-- No (Problem@All.com), July 07, 1999.

I still say that the smarter pollytrolls that post on Y2K forums surely include some closet GIs who are simply trying to discourage others from preparing so they do not have competion for survival supplies.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), July 07, 1999.

Diane -

You said above " Does puzzle me why Johnny Canuck didn't just ask Decker directly on DB."

Reason I posted my question at TB2000 was that was where the meeting was organized and most (if not all) the attendees would be TB2000 posters/lurkers. Also, I was interested in everybody's opinion, not just Deckers.

You also said "And why on earth would he think people here would want the "e" him when he hangs out over there [de-bunky], and posts what he does. 'Tis a puzzlement... eh, Linkmeister?).

Tis a puzzlement to me, oh great Sysop. What exactly is it that I post over there? I just went over to de-bunky and counted 9 (nine) posts of mine since that board started in the middle of April. CPR does more than 9 when he's drinking a coffee. Of the 9 I wrote, none contained the bile that one sees on occasion at TB2000.

Maybe the most recent one I did that drew attention to Michael Hyatt's rather poor predictive abilities WRT Jan/Apr/Jul milestones annoyed you. I don't know. But unless you can produce any evidence that I am a "pigwidgeon" who is "probably attempting to add names to cpr's "FBI lists." then I would like you to retract your allegation. I'm not asking for an apology - just that you take back what you said.

If you look at my posts on TB2000 you will see that I never launch into personal attacks. It is entirely possible to disagree about the conclusions one may draw from the Y2K data and to do so in a civilized manner. If mildly challenging an anonymous poster who cites anonymous sources is considered trolling then I fear for the future of healthy discourse on this board.

Mutha -

Hadn't heard that that was the way my native land came to be spelled! I always thought Canada was an old Cree word meaning "perpetual constitutional crisis".

Brian -

Thanks for your comments. (Actually this weekend I will be "behind enemy lines".[g] Going to see a couple of games at Tiger Stadium before the place gets razed.)

-- Johnny Canuck (j_canuck@hotmail.com), July 07, 1999.

Johnny,

If, I am inaccurate about your statements over there, then I do apologize. After awhile... it blurs. I'm resolving to ignore the lot of 'em. Y2K's too fascinating a research project to keep dealing with the "non" sense.

BTW, with numerous relatives sprinkled across Canuckia, mostly concentrated on the western most isle, I have VERY fond feelings for Canadians. Everytime I visit Victoria, there's this insatiable desire to drink Murchie's coffee and say aboot, eh? With a decided accent.

In fact, I'd much rather be up "there" than down "here." Especially, early next year.

C'est la vie. (Nope, that's the other half).

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 08, 1999.

Another Johnny Canuck thread:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000wgU

"For the record: Your July 1st predictions, please"

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), July 08, 1999.

Diane - thank you for clearing this up.

Victoria would be a nice place to spend the roll-over. Not too cold (a touch damp, perhaps) and very civilized.

(PS I think Brian is from there.)

Bon soir.

-- Johnny Canuck (j_canuck@hotmail.com), July 08, 1999.

Minnesota - I think that you may be partially correct. I have given it a little thought also and have come to the conclusion that there is a good possibility that most, if not all, of them are actually GI's.

Their problem is that they have an over inflated ego which can not allow them to be wrong. Thus, they have chosen to voice the opinion that Y2K is really nothing to worry about. By taking this stance, they have put themselves in the position where, if they are correct, they will be able to come back here and further boost their ego by claiming that they were right all along. If they are wrong, there will be no way to come back and admit that they were wrong and apologize for all the damage and loss of lives they caused (as if they would do it anyway). They will just slink away and join the rest of the GI's in trying to survive. They have put themselves in a win- win situation and there is no real threat to their ego. In essence, they are playing both sides of the field, but are being public with the only one in which they can come back and say they were right.

I have little doubt that if someone were holding a gun to one of there loved ones head, and the accuracy of their opinions decided on whether their loved ones would live or die, that they would admit to being a GI and also admit that what the GI's are doing and saying is the more prudent way to think.

If everyone were truly honest and realistic, they would admit that NO ONE *knows* what next year will bring. To tell others, with complete certainty, that nothing major is going to happen next year and therefore there is no reason to prepare/worry, is completely idiotic. It is up to each individual to decide what *may* happen and what they should do about it.

-- Weed Whacker (I@hate.weeds), July 08, 1999.

Johnny

Yes I am in, and from Victoria BC. For the record, I lived in northern Canada for 6 years when I was younger. Bloody cold and I loved it, but in my "elderly" age Victoria is the place for the newly wed and nearly dead. (Serious)

Y2K is a bump compared to the big shake Cascadia is going to get. There is a good chance of people alive today in Victoria that will get a chance of watching "civilization crumble" because that is what is going to happen here. Nice thought eh?

Be prepared for a Milne 6 *VBG*

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 08, 1999.

Gilda:

You wrote: "What I'd like to know, is where does everyone find the time to check out all these other forums? I barely have enough time to sift through a few thread on this forum. Some I'd really like to read, but just don't have time."

I agree. I'm unemployed right now, and still wouldn't have the time to engage in all of this. I found the title of this thread intriguing, so have watched it unfold. I limit posting to only threads in which I feel I may have something to offer. That in itself saves a lot of time, as the more you post, the more you may need to respond to folks who respond to YOUR post, and the time goes.

I'm actually having a harder time finding any threads of interest here anymore. I notice three or four threads on the same subject or threads consisting of rehashes of threads posted not so long ago. I ignore a's threads because they typically represent information posted from csy2k by either Milne or Hamasaki, and I would prefer to see those threads unfold on csy2k and can ask Deja to track a thread and provide me both the original post and all responses. I ignore outingsR' posts because they're again simply cut/pastes of posts from other fora. If I want to read Debunky, I'll settle in and do it myself...typically limited to once/week or so. Again, there's a lot there that I skip over, as there is on csy2k.

I DID learn something new yesterday on the prep forum. I sure didn't know fire ants ate plants. I thought they just liked people....judging by all the bites on my toes.

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), July 08, 1999.

Anita, yes it does take a lot of time, and that is what I don't have enough of anytune. What someone said about this forum, on another forum, reminds me of the old kid's game, Gossip.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), July 08, 1999.