This should spook even the most pollyannaish among us. I had freshman classes with 5 times the amount of the people. They are the well-meaning, civic-minded, but maybe the most naive among us. Letter campaigns, getting the ear of our lying politicians, public forums, meetings. God help us all....

I.C Disaster ---------------------------------------------------------------------

National Y2K Civic Preparedness Telephone Conference Thursday July 1, 1999 2:00  3:30 p.m. EST See Attachment: July 1.doc for formatted version--might be easier reading

[ID Code DELETE Request--Sysop]

Steve Browns Disclaimer: The attempt made was to capture the flavor if the discussion as it happened. The notes were not transcribed and are generally not quotes of exactly what we all said. I realize that the format might suggest that this is a transcription but its not. I have tried to make this a useful working document. Meeting began at: 2:02 pm with approximately 34 participants Leigh Shein: Thank you to all who helped get this together and special thanks to assistant Jessica Reyes. Contact her if for more information about this teleconference. She is at: jfreyes@opm.gov or tele: 202-602-1000 Also, if you wish to discuss any item at more length, be sure to take the email or phone number and contact the person directly. GROUND RULES Honor time guidelines  30 second notification and times-up announcement State your name every time you speak No advertising. Call privately. If you wish to talk off line, share phone numbers. Take a breath to allow for good time keeping. Say your name and your location and/or organization FOCUS TOPIC: CHEMICAL HAZARDS  DR. GERALD POJE Dr. Poje I want to address today the issue of chemical facilities and the millennium bug. Want your help on better ways to get message out. 66,000 facilities exist within 5 mile radius of 85 million Americans. The Chemical Safety Board is a new agency 1.5 years old and similar to the FAA. Last year we investigated a refinery explosion where 6 people were killed when they restarted operations after a power failure. Board committed to a number of projects. Dacia sent out a synopsis of a recent Expert workshop directed at chemical companies, petroleum refineries, vendors of automation equipment, unions, environmental organizations, agencies. Clearly one of the big thing is the risk status of small and mid-sized companies with less resource to deal with the problem. Last month got responses from 7 trade associations: 300 out of 6000 entities responded to survey. Many of the issues involve automation that has penetrated the functioning of a chemical facility: alarm systems, motherboards, pumps, refrigeration controls, valve controls (ammonia, propane, chlorine are all common throughout most communities in our society. We have some inkling of the risk. In one petroleum refinery as many of 21 % of the inventoried items would be non compliant and 6% would cause serious shutdown problems. Shutting down such a facility causes special problems. Starting up likewise causes special problems. Full report is accessible from our WEBSITE: http://www.chemsafety.gov/y2k/ RESPONDENTS Dr. Rick Ingrasci, Physician, in Community Resilience near Seattle, WA Outcomes from multiple concurrent, sequential or cascading failures are uncertain. You started by quoting the report about risks to chemical companies. I am concerned about nuclear and chemical facilities. I live near down the road from Anacordes. After a routine power outage and during startup the explosion took place, killing 6 people. Two weeks ago in Bellingham, a ruptured line released 300,00 gallons of gasoline into a creek. Children, playing with matches ignited it killing 3 people. If we simply use our heads regarding complex systems, we are likely to see some real problems. The happy face approach is inexcusable. We need to do more about public safety. Michael Aisenberg , Attorney with Wilkinson, Barker, Knauer & Quinn -currently working on Y2K liability bill Industries providing our infrastructure inherently have high risks as well as high visibility. There's often a lack of good information, considering multiple sources and recipients from the industry, from customers, and from citizens. And there's a risk from delay caused by a "wait to fix on failure" strategy. The natural incentive, without over-site, is to fix on failure. The risk of small and mid-sized enterprises is among the highest. From a risk sharing standpoint, it is curious that chemical problems are stemming from the pervasiveness of technology. It is a wake up call to the custodians of the technology to be aware of the risks. We need to encourage sharing of information and not wait for failures. Philip Bogdonoff, Center for Y2K & Society, Northwest DC Year 2000 Group, member DC Area Y2K Community Alliance Seriousness of actions. 1. Suggested actions communities can pursue to demand that local officials provide more accurate information. Let us know where the risks are. 2. We are calling for independent audits, public forums featuring tough questions (compiled at: www.y2kcenter.org 3. Communities can push for local comprehensive contingency planning. 4. Ask where questions: where are the most high-risk facilities? Where might toxic releases originate form? If 2 days, 2 weeks, 8 weeks, where are the warm centers where people can go? 5. Demand fuller and more in-depth coverage by the media. Pursue, find forces of the risk. Gerry, point us to good sources of information. Mike Martinet -Area G Office of Disaster Management, subset of Los Angeles County I cover 14 cities including two refineries, as well as small to medium enterprises (SME). Is there any better way to quantify the risk? The pervasive happy talk in all circles just shuts down questions. If we have hard facts and hard numbers it will be a great help to get people to listen. Bob Bavis American Red Cross We do the same thing no matter whether people forced to move because of an event or are directly affected by a mishap. The American Red Cross role in chemical disasters is providing temporary shelter, food and clothing to those in the community who might be evacuated from their homes. Chapters often provide feeding to the emergency workers involved in such events. Regarding Community Conversations, the chapters are getting interested. How can we tell our chapter exactly what chemical facilities exist in their areas? Contact the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), emergency and preparedness office-they are creating database of all registrants. Every community is covered by a local emergency planning committee (Right to Know Act 1986) and Emergency Response Commissions. Those places would be the repositories of a large amount of information on chemical and hazardous handling. Next step would be to try to quantify the level of risk. California may be the only state that is involved with the identification of facilities which might cause problems. List of facilities to watch for potential risks. There is a trade off between the risk associated with shutting plants down and leaving them up and running through the millennial transition. QUESTIONS & ANSWERS Norm Dean: Gerry, talk about the trade-offs and the risks of shutting the plants down it is a double edged sword Gerry: Right. 15 anniversary a Bophol. There is a five fold increased risk involved with the startup of a complex facility. If they are going to shut down a complex facility, then training and an adequate workforce is crucial. It needs to be a part of a public discourse. Jeanette: I have a map of toxics in Mass. It can be ordered from Toxic action centers. It shows 6 levels of toxic location in the state. Looking at the map I see throughout the state of Mass. The risk is very high. Gerry: The Houston, Baton Rouge/New Orleans (cancer alley), and a West Coast location are areas are considered especially high-risk. They are high chemical producing and managing areas. In every community where we have waste and water treatment facilities, we have chlorine. It does not mean that we run fleeing to the hills. We need to be watching carefully and asking the right questions about the facilities. ? What assessment and remediation has occurred? ? Where could there be failures? ? What failures most likely? ? What is being done to prevent the failures? ? What are the essential roles in workplace safety. ? Has there been any independent verification of your efforts? ? What is the time and day of a shutdown? ? Electric grid integrity plays a major role in secure safe operation of most facilities. Michael Aisenberg: The consistent thread of this discussion is the lack of information. We still dont have a handle on where the problems are. It is interesting that the Sierra Club has a listing of toxic areas around the country. WEBSITE:?????????????? Gerry: One thing we are doing : a brochure designed with associations of chemical handlers to address year 2000 issues in small and medium facilities . We hope to make it available on many websites. We must improve the communication and trust. Only from accurate and truthful sharing of information can trust be built. The anxiety level will continue to grow if we cant improve communication. Dacia: reading about hazardous materials made me realize the value of the Red Cross 3-day evacuation kit . Gerry: I think that every locality should be aware of the possible need to evacuate. This information can be prepared for now. Jay Golter: Among the pieces of information that communities should be asking of chemical facilities is the date and time of any planned shutdowns and restarts. Gerry: If electric utilities are going to be operating near the peak of their ability we need to know due to the important affects it has on chemical industry. We are working with EPA on protection and preparedness

COMMUNITY CONVERSATIONS & OTHER CURRENT EFFORTS: SUCCESSES & CHALLENGES Jason McNamara: Quick update: Our website 43 events are taking place or are scheduled. Working on 70 events nationwide. Each day we add a few more. Campaign is going very well. Average participation in about 200 people; as large as 500 in Detroit. The right people are on the panels . The audiences are asking tough questions. At one place a group passed out a tough question list. We think that is a good idea. Working to schedule as many as possible. Liegh Shein: In the last teleconference, the need was mentioned for faster posting on web. Jason: We are doing a better job of turning it around--about 24 hours to post. WEB www.y2k.gov/community Huraiahah Imaralu: Several of us have been working to engage the District of Columbia with community preparedness--with no success. We are still trying to engage the mayor and other officials. Personal agendas are getting in the way. Our main problem is building trust. Washington DC will be at a disadvantage to mitigate the circumstances caused by y2K disruption if this ties those of us working earnestly in good faith to organize. Hoping that this issue will be addressed at at the next teleconference. Please share any advise for handling such situations. Question: How can people contact you? Huraiahah: Hurairah11@aol.com Jay Golter: Jason you say there are good questions. How about the answers. What kind of answers are people getting when they ask good questions? Have any Community Conversations uncovered local Y2K risks so far? Jason; In terms of laying out the risk., wed like to see that as a follow-up to CC. If you attended a CC and were uncomfortable with the answer, you need to ask: what are you going to do to prepare? In Detroit John Koskinen encouraged people to call service providers. If not satisfied, then take appropriate preparedness sets. We would like to see further follow-up meetings and actions, based on whats been learned from contacting service providers. In some CCs people give away a resource list of the presenters names to the participants. Dacia Reid: At a recent conference of I passed out 78 Community Conversation kits and 200 flyers. Kenneth Rothchild, Wash DC. We need a communication tool, staffed 24 hours a day as a system for networking and communicating. I would like to see an 800 number with a phone bank and email addresses to access other community preparedness groups and individuals. It would help us to share information and best practices and could feature a national grid of activities, skills resources, hypothetical games, community preparedness efforts in other states, towns. This would help our organizing efforts by allowing more direct coordinationit would lead to faster progress. Information needs to be based on credible industry assessments. Any possibility? Jason: we have 800 line. If someone call to know about a local activity we can provide that information. Your second question is: can we connect to call to others in the community working on the same issue? Coalition 2000 is doing this. We will take a look to see how we could facilitate this. Jeanette: I sent draft letter from John Koskinen to my local selectmen. The next day the paper quoted John Koskinen saying most y2k bugs are fixed. This neutralized any affect .. Leigh Shein: Send it to me. Jason McNamara: Quick answer. We have set up a few CC in NC to increase visibility. We are focusing effort in NC. If a state coordinator is saying that y2k is not a problem, let us know! Jeanette: Experts say that the Y2K bugs are worked out: Jim Sinclair of ISO New England (Power), Bell Atlantic, Mass HospitalsIt wiped out any possibility of selectboard taking John Koskinens letter seriously and Y2K seriously.

GUEST FROM THE PRESIDENTS COUNCIL ON Y2K CONVERSION Molly Varney is a special assistant from Health and Human Services will talk about the Health Care working Group. Molly Varney: Health Care Finance Adminsitration (HCFA) sent out a letter to a million people saying HCFA and Medicare are Y2K readywill be able to send out checks and pay bills HCFA is doing 200 provider outreach conferences. Already done 6, doing 10 more by fall in partnership with other agencies. On Medicade side: HCFA has gone to all 50 states to survey their systems and is going back a second time, addressing things that still need fixing. They have requested assessment by the Office of Inspector General on Managed Carereport will be out by Fall. FDAis in the process of surveying drug manufactures. Response rate: pretty high focusing on single source drugs, drugs that are in critical supply, biological and medical devises. John Koskinen stated that drug supply is in pretty good shape with a 5-7 day window of supply. Able to handle any problems, system is resilient. Safeguards in place to not allow bulk ordering. Are hearing about having problems with doctors. Next effort: Day one planning. Day one reporting systems. Question from someone from Washington: What about imported drugs? Molly: Concern about foreign countries wanting our supplies. How do we control supply of insulin form overseas?. Eli Lilly uses only domestic materials. Leon Kappelman: It is useful to know your internal system are OK. But it is like saying we make a beautiful car but we have no tires. We realize that the your systems may not have problems. Our concern is community preparedness. How do we get information about their states, localities, so know what will be functional and what wont be. Molly: The Horn report is often based on out-of-date information. Medicare is ready. Medicaid is state run and we have gone to the states to check their systems. We will make this info available. We are going into second phase in evaluating the states. Medicare is ready now. Partly it is the reporting problem with time lag. Leon: John Koskinen indicated that the information was up-to-date and the problem are indicated by the interconnections. The end to end testing. Molly: Medicare is ready and accepting claims. Information on Medicaid will be made available. Norm Dean: Medicaid information needs to be available to help the non profits to make proper decisions. Molly. Old information Norm: That argument has been made for a year now. For the groups that are trying to plan for the contingencies, we need the info now! Molly: Right. The range is very poor to very good Norm: When will we get list of high-risk states? Molly: I dont know Michael Aisenberg: We are dancing around the question of : At what level is the risk going to be addressed? It is a local problem issue to be addressed locally. We need buy-in of all participants that y2k is a credible risk. Community Conversations is an important tool to raise the level of concern at the local level. How good a job are the CCs doing at bringing the healthcare challenge into the open? Leon: LA has set up a healthcare working group. Mike Martinet: It is important to remember that if people die, it doesnt matter who made the error. Molly: Right, we are all in this boat togethersink or swim. Norm: Y2K Center will file for Freedom for Information Act for Medicaid information. Others are welcome to join us. Michael Aisenberg: You might get more mileage by raising the level of the discussion. Have the Administration use its bully pulpit to get buy-in from the doctors and others. Molly : The information will be coming out. We went in to the states to help them out. Very cooperative with states. We have a lot of balancing to do, assessing the high impact programs. Jay Golter: We need know the high risk states and also, quickly, the high risk pharmaceuticals from a Y2K perspective to allow physicians to have time to move patients onto alternative medications. I personally have been waiting for the administration to use its bully pulpit for three years and I am tired of waiting. Kenneth Rothchild: US postal system report is needed. I agree with Jay Golter, the US Postal system is critical. Have not heard about their contingency plansit is important to know. Without mail, people on Social Security and Medicare cannot receive their checks. Legal documents cannot be mailed. The US Postal system is complex and needs to be looked at for risk. John Koskinen needs to ramp it up. Please email all replies to: hurairah11@aol.com FOLLOW THROUGH FROM LAST CALL Leigh: Newer information than in Horns Report is available in OMB quarterly at: www.cio.gov , under whats new. Horns report is not a good report of the Fed Governments systems. For instance, it lists payments to federal retirees as a problem. However, that is my system and it is about 80% independently verified at this date. More important, contingency plans are happening in the Federal Government. OPMs Payment management system is fully ready. Leon: The Horn report many not be a good reflection on Federal agencies but it might be good reflection on the big picture. Jason: It is not enough that we have fixed our programs which depend on a lot more that the computer in the basement. Its more than a systems problem in the federal government--also a delivery problem, Leigh: Koskinens letter, mentioned in the last teleconference, is being customized for distribution through states and state associations, encouraging people to get involved in Community Conversation. 8-10,000. Letters. We will get the text of the letter out on the COMM. We should also mention about assistance form media. Jason: We have engaged two consulting firms to help us out. We are trying to encourage as many CC as possible. Send your info to Jason or Leigh and we will help you , especially if you are having difficulty. Question : Difficulty time getting food chain involved Jason: We can help you to find people you need to participate in CC. Leigh: I direct your attention to the Purpose and Outcomes of the Teleconference below. Please email Jan at: jannickrson@aol.com with your thoughts and it will be included in the next minutes.

INTRODUCING FUTURE AGENDA TOPICS Cascade Effect Doug Kinney: Effect of y2k that compound each other, making things worse because they interact. Normally in a crisis we depend on them happening one at a time. The simplest level of a cascading effect is loosing power because it means loosing heat. Cities have a worse possibilities. A word about cascades: I do not recommend a public discussion. Must be mapped out very carefully first. www.din@consulting.org End Game: Jay Golter: Because the Civic Preparedness message is not reaching many people now, it doesnt seem to matter what we way. Encouraging people to prepare now is not causing and problems. However, if later on we find ourselves in the panic situation that everyone fears, what kind of messages would we be voicing? How will we assist our communities in such situations? Finally, what will be some of the early signals that we have moved into this new scenario so that we know to change our focus. Send me your ideas on this topic at: Jgolter@aol.com ANNOUNCEMENTS We received no announcements. Which directed me to place them in these notes. Send any announcemnts you would like to make directly to civicprep@4hlists.org

PULLING TOGETHER Suzanne Taylor: Pulling Together. My suggestion is to have a minute of silence from high in the administration. It was done in England during WWII and was said to have made a difference. 1 minute at noon in our local time zones. Suggestion: How about 10 or 2:00 during the day. Contact Suzanne at: mightycompanions@compuserve.com

LIGHTNING ROUND OF TOPICS Washington: Need to just move to preparedness. Dacia: Article: Hilary leading a plan to lead a millennial party on the Mall the Presidents Council. Jason: John Koskinen will not be there. Doug Kinney: We are at the 6 month mark. Hypothetical games. Let me know about games. How about an award for the hairbrain y2k plans, like Hillarys plan. Leon: Find out where our greatest risks are? We have to have some information. Lois Saboe: We talk a lot about readiness without understand in the big picture. Medicare-Medicaid. John Kossinen said yesterday in Columbus,  When we talk about readiness we need to be talking about end to end readiness. We need to know if they are now in the testing phase which takes 40% of the time. Sharon Joy: How about reaching out to conference of Mayors and county directors. Answer: John K is working with them. ACTION STEPS 1. Help prioritize future focus topics  e-mail Dacia noting your top three agenda choices. RevDacia@uuy2k.org 2. Review Volunteer tasks a. Note taker for July 15th meeting: Phil Bogdonoff b. List serv digest c. Geographic identifiers d. Synthesizer for meeting notes: ADMINISTRATION ? Meeting Notes a. Resource information shared during calls will be included in the meeting notes if you send the specifics, immediately following the call to Stephen Brown at: goldsmth@blazenetme.net (note: there is no i in goldsmth) b. Steve will draft and submit minutes to participants sometime on Friday July 2. IF you want to review the draft before it goes out  e-mail Steve by 4 p.m. today and submit revisions, if any, by 10 AM tomorrow  (Friday, 7/2). c. If the minutes are inconsistent with what you said, send corrections to Steve and a corrected version will be incorporated and attached to the agenda of the next meeting. IF the inconsistency is earth shattering, a correction can be sent out to our COMM list serve in the interim. COMM_Y2K@www.GSA.GOV d. Meeting notes will include volunteers needed, agenda log and follow-up items. e. Meeting notes will also be posted on www.colaition2000.org ? Send future agenda suggestions to Dacia Reid at: RevDacia@uuy2k.org ? Next Meeting  July 15 - 2 to 3:30 p.m. EST ? Agenda deadline - July 6  Tuesday ? RSVP deadline  Tuesday July 13  EOB ? Agenda outline posted Monday July 12

AGENDA ITEM -- QUESTION NOT ADDRESSED: How do we reconcile the statement in the Community Conversations materials which states that the Federal Government will be ready for Y2K with the information in Representative Horn's most recent report which lists unknown or late December completion dates for a number of federal programs...? Discussion Jan (clarifying the original question and brief remarks on the call): We've heard today that Horn's report may rely on outdated information. And we've also heard that information may always be outdated but that must not stop critical information from being released to those who need it for adequate planning. In raising the question above, my focus was not on Horn, or OPM, or any specific source of information. The intention behind my question was to begin a dialogue on the consequences of saying "we're ready" without qualification. I believe Leigh agreed we could set something up, on our next call, or perhaps a call specific to this topic. Jan will clarify her concern in a separate COMM email following these notes.

AGENDA SUGGESTIONS LOG Philip Bogdanoff will do notes next time. Best Practices Best Questions Utility Industry  Electricity, telecommunications, FCC Impact on poor and other vulnerable populations Health Care Dial Tone 911 Food supply Dept. of Agriculture Y2K Educational programs  responsibility Safe shelters: camps for children Y2K Tool Kits for children Millennial Celebrations FEMA disaster relief ICC  Information Coordination Center (& the End game?) Tools for teleconferencing WORKING DRAFT -- PURPOSE AND OUTCOMES OF THESE CONFERENCE CALLS-- WORKING DRAFT Purpose: share ideas, perspectives among local state and national leaders and President's Council. Specifically, for Each and All of us to -To learn what is working -To learn what is not working -To learn where we, as local leaders, could use a hand -To influence policy in favor of the preparedness message at a high level The desired outcomes of our teleconference calls: Synergy, Best Practices and Tools (for building awareness, assessment, contingency planning, community building) Focus, Connection, Influence, Action - in a disciplined meeting format with open participation by people knowledgeable about Y2K. The ultimate impact of our collaboration is to prevent disruptions and death and promote recovery

A final note on these minutes. This is exhausting work and I appreciate what you all have done to keep the process as simple as possible. Ideas to simplify are welcome. Thanks. Respectfully submitted July 2, 1999 Stephen Brown

-- I.C. Disaster (movinfast@forthehills.com), July 04, 1999

Answers

Forgive my attitude, but it comes from experience. Too many meetings, listserves, eMails, see the same spinning of wheels with no real movement. Relying on Kospinem & Co. is ridiculous. Notice the wet blanket effect! His agenda is Brakes On Concern.

All these well-meaning people, grassroots efforts -- I used to have faith and hope in that, but have seen the mass consciousness weighs too heavily in other directions. Self-interested .gov .biz forcefully dampens real momentum while pretending to "feel your pain."

So much earnestness and good intentions from the alternatively aware weeples -- sucked down the black void of .biz .gov .meetings .teleconferences etc.

The revolution will come after the fact. Revolt On Failure. It's gonna take that kind of jolt to change mindsets. If the mass hypnosis can even be breached.

Time Will Tell

xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx x

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), July 04, 1999.

Community Conversations is an important tool to raise the level of concern at the local level. How good a job are the CCs doing at bringing the healthcare challenge into the open? Leon: LA has set up a healthcare working group. Mike Martinet: It is important to remember that if people die, it doesnt matter who made the error

....................................................................... ........... Oh an error that folks die..........................................

There is a little more to the story than is told.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 04, 1999.

Y2K Fast Facts
DOE--Department of Energy

http://cio.doe.gov/y2k/OtherInfo/Y2KnYou/FF-6_19-25_99.htm

June 19 - 25, 1999

Y2K Czar Comments on Global Readiness

Following a forum featuring Y2K coordinators from several countries and regions, including Mexico, Australia, Venezuela, Central Europe and sub-Saharan Africa, John Koskinen, head of the President's Commission on Year 2000 Conversion, noted that information on the international situation was difficult to come by, but that he is encouraged by what he believes is an increase in the last six months in global awareness and cooperation on solving Y2K problems. The forum is part of a three-day international Y2K meeting held from June 21 - 23 at the United Nations. More than 170 countries sent delegates. The United Nations Working Group on Informatics and the International Y2K Cooperation Center are sponsoring the gathering. Conference speakers noted that the biggest Y2K problem facing nations is not fixing computer bugs but preparing populations for possible disruptions without causing panic.

Sources: Philadelphia Enquirer. June 22, 1999. Reuters. June 22, 1999.

And... just links...

U.S. Federal Government Y2K Information

http:// www.itpolicy.gsa.gov:80/mks/yr2000/us.htm

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 04, 1999.

Contact the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), emergency and preparedness office-they are creating database of all registrants. Every community is covered by a local emergency planning committee (Right to Know Act 1986) and Emergency Response Commissions. Those places would be the repositories of a large amount of information on chemical and hazardous handling. (Cited above).

Chemicals in Your Community
A Guide to the Emergency Planning and Community
Right-to-Know Act

[Long, long, but interesting document] ...

... (Note this document is similar to EPA document EPA 550-K-93-003 (also known as U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE: 1988 516-002/80246) printed by the United States Environmental Protection Agency, September, 1988, Washington, DC 20460 except for information that has been updated, and page referencing which has been changed to adapt to the Internet requirements.)

http:// www.epa.gov/swercepp/pubs/chem-com.html

See also ...

Chemical Emergency Preparedness and Prevention Office (CEPPO) ... includes counter-terrorism links & info ...

http://www.epa.gov/swercepp

And ...

American Chemical Society ... a good place to just explore the links ...

http://www.acs.org

Its a Y2K industry to watch ... closely. Too many potential critical hazards possible.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 04, 1999.

They are the well-meaning, civic-minded, but maybe the most naive among us. These people may also be the most savvy among us. http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch- msg.tcl?msg_id=0012Vc

Critt

-- Critt Jarvis (middleground@critt.com), July 04, 1999.

After 36 years with the Feds, I feel that Leska said it about as succinctly as can be done...nothing meaningful happens in government organizations (or any large organizations) until the shit actually hits the fan. Then all the parties have a visible, real, target and can jump into action with at least some feeling that they know what they are going to do. Until that happens, they will simply talk the thing to death. Works OK for limited, local scenarios...but the potential widespread, impact of y2k problems may well be far beyond their ability to grasp. That's the nature of the beast, and it isn't going to change in the next few months. Geez...it's depressing, isn't it?!

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@tymewyse.com), July 04, 1999.

To acquire an appreciation for how little respect the "leadership" at the Federal level (isn't it pathetic that I have to use italics?) shows for the work of Dr. Gerald V. Pojeand the U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation, you must read:

Year 2000 Issues:
Technology Problems and Industrial Chemical Safety
Executive Summary
U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board March, 1999 Here's a hint:

One theme all experts agree upon is that failures from Y2K non- compliance at small and mid-sized enterprises is more likely. The reason is a genearl lack of awareness regarding process safety in general and the Y2K impact in particular, lack of resources, and technical know-how for fixing the problems. Given the time constraints, altering this situation would require a massive effort.

"altering this situation would require a massive effort."

Folks, that was dated March. March... this is July

Now, go back up to the notes above to see how well the massive effort to alter the situation is coming along...

Critt Jarvis

Wilmington, North Carolina

- We'll take it from here. Thank-you very much

-- Critt Jarvis (middleground@critt.com), July 04, 1999.

Bold off? Italics off?

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 04, 1999.

It is interesting that the Sierra Club has a listing of toxic areas around the country. (Cited above).

http://www.sierraclub.org/

Search the Sierra Club Web Site

http:// www.sierraclub.org/search.html

Toxic Release Inventory (Interesting, not what is referred to though).

http://tamalpais.sierraclub.org/chapters/ny/ rochester/waste/rochtoxicmain.html

Trying to locate the areas they refer to in the above. Not easy.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 04, 1999.

Even with all preps done, bug-out bags at the ready, there is ONE SPECIAL KIT you need to have pre-made and accessible in case of chemhaz (likely):

Shelter In Place: Make Your Kits

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-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), July 04, 1999.

I was talking to a friend who works in State government the other day. He mentioned that when he wants to kill an idea, he creates a committee to take care of it with as many varied participants as possible. Does the trick every time.

I once experienced a federal/state/local committee that spent almost a year deciding whether they would use majority or consensus vote for decision-making. Problem was they couldn't come to agreement on how they were going to vote on the issue to begin with - lol. (Seriously, it resulted in stone-walling any action plan and resulted in a bunch of your tax dollars flowing down the porcelain tube. The problem still isn't solved or being addressed after 5 years.)

"Leadership" and "accountability" is taking responsibility for taking a risk in making a decision on behalf of others. Touchy feely "process" is all grand and wonderful in theory, but its main benefit is the exchange of knowledge and not action response to real and immediate problems. This problem has too short a tether to allow it to be mired in bureaucracy or committee mentality.

IMHO, our best shot is to take leadership responsibility in responses to the problem for ourselves, our families and, perhaps, our neighbors, church or service organization.

We chose leaders at the local level of our counties and cities. Make them accountable for their leadership, or lack thereof, by showing up at a Commissioners or Supervisors meeting and asking those questions. They are being paid to make decisions. They wanted the power, they must accept accoumntability with that responsibility. And, don't let them appoint a committee or delegate the job to a bureaucrat. (Ask your grand jury to investigate as well.)

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), July 04, 1999.