Everybody on this Forum talks about bartering during Y2K. Why barter? If Y2K is a 10, there will be no money coming in and no money going out. I have all my preparations in place and I would never trade any of my survival items for money, just to turn around and trade that money with someone else for a product.

NOBODY will give up their food storage items for money in 2000 if Y2K is a 10!!! They say money will be king in 2000. What are you going to buy in 2000 if you have prepared and all businesses are closed?

As I can see it, the 2 best bartering items are book matches and garden seeds. Book matches are extremely cheap to buy right now. If it's cold and and a guy has no matches to start a fire in his woodstove, he would be willing to barter.

You can trade garden seeds for 25% of the garden during harvest, if you have no garden space to plant vegetables. Any further bartering seems stupid if you have all your preparations in place. If you have prepared, why the need to barter?

Why trade any Y2K survival item for another such item? You should have no need to give up one product for another one if you have prepared!!!

Forget about bartering!

-- freddie (freddie@thefreeloader.com), July 03, 1999

Answers

Sometimes, it's to gain advantage. Sometimes, it's to gain a friend.

-- Lobo (atthelair@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

freddie,

If you think you've got everything covered, by all means, forget about bartering. But if you've missed anything (say, expert medical care), perhaps you need to rethink. Are you SURE you haven't forgotten something? I wish I had your confidence!

Spindoc'

-- Spindoc' (spindoc_99_2000@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

It's not humanly possible to have all your preparations in place. With the exception of the obscenely wealthy, (and even they may lack the time to gather everything they need), you are going to have to make some educated guesses about what you can do without. If you're wrong, then maybe you can find someone else who has what you need, and trade something you don't need as much as you thought you did. That's barter.

Y2K, ` la Carte, Dancr from near Monterey, California

-- Dancr (minddancr@aol.com), July 03, 1999.

freddie - I forget who said this - but I think it applies.

...no man is an island unto himself....

got a couple of questions.

1. are you currently or have you ever been a hermit?

2. how much time have you spent (consecutively) by yourself, alone?

3. how much have you prepared for? less than a year, more than a year?

just curious

-- justme (finally@home.com), July 03, 1999.

Freddie, You know bartering is not the same as buying something. You dont use money. Bartering is trading two items of equal value. Say.....I have antibotics your little girl needs badly, and you have what... a cow.

Somethings will be so hard to get a hold of....I would not trade them for a book of matches. I would give them for free to your child though.

-- bulldog (sniffin@around.com), July 03, 1999.

Freddie

WRONG!!!

holy smokes! Money grows on trees! You only barter what you don't need. Barter what is cheap now and hard to get later (coffee) If things get hard there will be markets springing up all over the place. Just look at less afluent contries. In any time cigarettes, guns and drugs are cash in hand, fuel, food, medicine would work.

Services. You can bet that small motor mechanics will be in great demand in blackouts, any form of light, camping stuff what is junk now could be used when a emergency happens. Anything that people need they will trade for.

This I have absolute confidence in.

PS this is in no way to condone running smokes, guns and drugs (booze). People just do it.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 03, 1999.

Aww, I get the subtle humor of your post Freddie. Pretty clever.

-- Look Twice (genius@is.freddy), July 03, 1999.

What's wrong with bartering? You're not getting MONEY in exchange, you're getting other goods or services.

I'm actually thinking of engaging in this NOW. I became more familiar with a neighbor recently who cleans office buildings for a living. We began discussing Y2k. She said that she didn't know whether to prepare for 4 months or a year, but thought that in December she would go out and get some stuff. I could only shake my head in disbelief. She said, "You think there will be panic in December?" I said, "I don't know, but why don't you start with 2 weeks and get it NOW?"

I'm not typically an evangelist, but I had information on expiration dates and my cache in the form of an Access database, and printouts of how our particular town is doing regarding Y2k. I walked over to her house and her husband told me she was in her office. She was trying to get a handle on her books. They're all handwritten in a ledger. She's pretty clueless on how to use her P.C., and doesn't have any good software that would make her bookkeeping easier.

She looked at my Access database and immediately realized that this might be the solution to her bookkeeping problems. She said, "I know how to clean a commode, but I sure don't know how to do THIS!" I thought...clean a commode...clean my house? I wouldn't mind spending a few hours/week on your books if you were willing in turn to spend a few hours cleaning my house.

I never said anything about bartering these services, but the thought DID cross my mind. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. If we can all go with our strengths, might the world be a more enjoyable place?

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), July 03, 1999.

Example:

My wife's mother was able to secure us a years worth of baby formula for free from a connection she has. We will not need this formula, however, my guess is that someone will and we will be able to trade it for things we may need.

I will also have some 7.62X39 items to trade for things I need. ;>

-- L. Ogcabin (daniel@boone.com), July 03, 1999.

I think you guys are all WRONG! We all know that only 5% of the people are preparing. I'm willing to bet that there is NOBODY in your neighborhood who is preparing! WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BARTER WITH????

One of you said you only barter items that you don't need. Why even stock up with products you don't need? That's plain stupid! Most likely other people do not need the unneeded items that you bought to barter with!

If you go around your neighborhood flashing around valuable survival items to barter with, your whole neighborhood will know you have prepared and when they get real hungry, they will remember and DEMAND with a gun in their hands that you share with them!!!

Think again! If you are the only one in your neighborhood who is preparing for Y2K, YOU WILL NOT FIND ANYONE TO BARTER WITH, I GUARANTEE IT! If you think you can barter during Y2K, you're living in a dream world!!!

-- freddie (freddie@thefreeloader.com), July 03, 1999.

Freddie me lad, plant your bloodshot eyes close to the monitor and read very sloooowly....B A R T E R . As it has been so eloquently explained in the above postings, we need not go any further than provide an example that you might understand: You have much more Jack Daniels then you could possibly consume. Down the road from you is a thirsty Doctor who would be willing to remove the stitches from your forehead for a bottle or two...Voila!! B A R T E R!!!

-- eat (s**t@die.now), July 03, 1999.

Hey eat s**t! If you're stocking up on Jack Daniels, you're an idiot! If Y2K is a 10, you're not going to find ANY doctor waiting around in his dark office (no electricity) hoping you will come around with a couple of Jack Daniels to trade with him! If he was, he would only be interested in trading FOOD!!!!

Tell me, how are you going to call your doctor for an appointment if all the phone lines are dead?

Tell me, how are you going to get to the doctors office in the first place, if you cannot pump gas in your gas tank?

If Y2K is a 10, you better take care of that gash in your forehead yourself with a butterfly bandaid!

FORGET ABOUT BARTERING DURING Y2K WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING!!!!

Bartering during Y2K just is not going to happen, if only 5% of the people have anything to barter with!!!

-- freddie (freddie@thefreeloader.com), July 03, 1999.

This does raise and interesting question. What will be the appropriate protocol for making non-threatening contact with other lucky survivors post crash?

A salute of some sort is the traditional method, something that demonstrates (simple, fast, effective) that your weapon hand is, for the moment, empty. Some distance is required, the military model is six paces I think... I'd want some more. Maybe 25 meters.

Freddie has, I think, really just made the most powerful argument I can think of for a community based approach to getting ready vs. gopher mode - the go it alone mentality. I'm not exactly a rocket scientist, so I'm bound to have too much of something and not enough of something else.

The problem is a lack of trust. In a senario where only 1 in 10 survive, picking your friends carefully becomes really important.

-- Lead Mouse in the Wall (greytek@hotmail.com), July 03, 1999.

On second thought, forget the stitches.

-- eat (s**t@die.now), July 03, 1999.

Freddie is right! You say "no man is an island". Wait until April or May 2000, if Y2K is a 10. All those who have prepared will be left over. All the others will be dead and buried in their backyards! You will be an island whether you like it or not!

If you missed a couple of items tyry to do without. If you try to barter for them with people who have nothing, you will be inviting a hungry stampede to your front door! Bartering in 2000 with people who have nothing is extremely dangerous!

People become like animals when they are hungry and are just days from dying of hunger!

I'm with freddie, forget about bartering in 2000.

-- smitty (smitty@sandiego.com), July 03, 1999.

look kids consider this,

even pre 2000 i barter all the time. when something breaks i call mr. straight and tall fix-it-man. we do a little "bartering" and "something" magically gets fixed.

-- corrine l (corrine@iwaynet.net), July 03, 1999.

Freddie, Haars eet gooing? Seriously, I have some questions for you about put options. Will you entertain them on this thread or prefer to start another?

You advocating LEAPS if I remember right. I'm looking at buying three month puts in December and then selling them soon after rollover if there is no crash in sight, thereby cutting my holding time and reducing my time value premium. I know the obvious risks here, such as the collapse could conceivable occur before rollover, but I doubt that more and more. Another risk is that premiums could be hyperinflated by December, but I doubt that to. I want your reflections on this and also some recommendations on discount brokers/rates.

-- Pt (achillesg@hotmail.com), July 03, 1999.

Sheesh this is a wierd thread when "pollies" support an obvious survival tactic.

Freddie It would appear that once agian location might rear its ugly head. If you are located around a bunch of useless folk that maybe a problem.

A matter of fact just talked to a friend that lived in Northern Alberta and she has seen worse than your average Y2K doom senerio and Barter was common. In my experiance Barter is very common. There are many things that are easy to get now that will be as tangible as money if it gets that bad. But if you are amoung the great unwashed with maxed out credit and a neat lawn you just might be right.

Of course my experiance is in Northern Canada and at my home terf so YMWV

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 03, 1999.

Some of you guys might like to look at an article I wrote on the subject of barter after Y2K hits. It's not just a long list of barter items, but includes some thoughts on the PRINCIPLES of bartering post-1999. Go to my website, hit the "About My Services" button, look on the right side, and click on the article entitled "Barter Items". Hope someone finds this useful. Oh, and NO ONE can possibly forsee their future personal needs perfectly; there will undoubtedly be tremendous amounts of bartering in the U.S. next year.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), July 03, 1999.

People will ALWAYS have something to barter with - even if it's only their labor. While there may be things no one should barter, like ammo (it may find its way back to you) and possibly food (unless you're extremely well-stocked), there may well be instances where a mutually-beneficial deal can be struck. As a way of life, NO! But as an expedient, certainly.

-- capper (--@-._), July 03, 1999.

Anita, I would barter almost anything, with anyone, just to get help with house cleaning which I hate, loathe and despise. The Catch 22 is that I can't bear dirt and clutter either so I can't just let it become a pit. The house we will be moving into, has nary a carpet, and I'm thrilled to be done with vacuuming. Bought me a new dust mop just in case. "Housework--we can put men on the moon, but only women can get dirt out of the house."

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), July 03, 1999.

Freddie is correct on this one. He has thought out the scenarios and he is right. At some point in time however (assuming a 9+), if you have survived the winter and disease, those that are left will be prepared to barter - so have plenty of barter items, have plenty of food and water to get you through the crunch, have plenty of guns and ammo to protect yourself - and have plenty of prayers asking for a 2 or 3...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), July 03, 1999.

No matter how well you prepare, there will be things that would be nice to have. FRESH milk, eggs, meat, fruit or veggies. I have been selling Avon, Fuller Brush and Watkins for years. I know I can trade hand cream, deoderant, spices and cleaning supplies for whatever is available. Lets face it, no self respecting woman will want to be without her lipstick. Men like to buy "something special" for their ladies. For years, I have been getting my nails done and my hair cut in exchange for Avon. Bartering is nothing new.

-- Homeschooling Grandma (mlaymon@glenn-co.k12.ca.us), July 03, 1999.

Andy and Freddie

If you guys are talking about wide spread failure in and area with few resources then barter would be difficult.

But why the heck would you be there if you are worried about a 9+ ?

Somewhere I am missing the "logic" in this.

If there are no more markets it is because there are no more humans.

Fisherman and farmers will always trade. It may not be the same but they will make it work.

By the way that is the way business survives in Russia, Barter.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 04, 1999.

Brian,

There are a whole bunch of different scenarios, take a look at the y2kchaos web site, have a read of "Patriots - The Coming Collapse", maybe read Lucifers' Hammer - the point is, if it goes Infomagic, the first few months will be crucial, a lot of people will be dying, what you want to do is keep a low profile and just plan on getting through this stage, later, when things stabilise (Ha!) a little, bartering will come into it's own. During the first weeks and months you would be a fool to venture out too much and advertise that you have supplies.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), July 04, 1999.

Bartering is the way to go any time you can. We're always open to it. Have swapped vegies for vet service, eggs for generator repairs, cheese for loan of a tiller, laying hens for mulch hay, and on and on. Would cheerfully barter formost anything i could- would not mind seeing the cash economy go bye-bye.....

Freddie- as a matter of fact, I live on a sparsely populated mountain road- and I can think of 5 families on this road that are in fact preparing. And another that i just gave a catalog with emergency stuff to- So- bartering is real. Also- I don't for a minute believe that we can store everything we could need, or be able to do everything that needs doing. We have plenty of skills and the tools to do things with- and will be more than willing to barter for whatever with whomever.....self-sufficient is a misnomer i believe. We do need eachother.

-- farmer (hillsidefarm@drbs.net), July 04, 1999.

If there are people living,there will always be an exchange of energy.prositution thrives in the worst of conditions,goods and services.drugs and alcohol,cigarettes and coffee.tampons,soap and shampoo.wool socks.just because millions are starving,people are not going to stop exploiting others.the haves that plan on exploiting probably intend on waiting through a weeding out period.in a "10"situation most will die anyway.after all the corpses have rotted or been eaten and the plagues have died off(as well as the plague ridden)barter will start again

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), July 04, 1999.

>>This does raise and interesting question. What will be the appropriate

>>protocol for making non-threatening contact with other lucky survivors post

>>crash?

waving a white flag ? I intend to make sure I always have 1 white t-shirt with me for this purpose. I also may get a battery powered bull horn so I could get someone's attention without going on their property.

-- (y2kbiker@worldnet.att.net), July 06, 1999.

Andy

I don't expect a ten anyway, but after 5 years commercial fishing I can feed my face and a few others if need be. Its not rocket science and is fully compliant.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 06, 1999.