My apologies if this has been posted elsewhere....

Status of my deal Friday, 02-Jul-1999 16:35:17 209.170.208.151 writes: Ok, yes I am actively trying to have TB2000 taken off of MITNet. Actively in being 3 emails. One to Phil Greenspun, one to the Administrative listing from Internic/NS(which was forwarded to MIT's Stopit folks), and one to a reporter who will remain anonymous at this point. Due to the timing-summer&July4-I expect a slow response. In fact, I expect no action frankly from the parties above. Feedback from Stopit will dictate my next move. What complicates this issue is Philip Greenspun. His web operation(Arsdigita.com-photo.net) is intertwined with the resources of MIT to the core. He in fact is responsible for some(?) of the IT structure running at MIT and known as MITNet. Conflict of interest is the least of the issues. I see direct problems beyond even TB2000. However this is not my concern. I merely want that sewer off of MITNet. Even having Phil's email on TB2000 is not inkeeping with the intent of proper use of the MIT name. This is a silent "stamp of approval" from one of the most respected institutions on the planet. This alone is a direct violation and alone would be enough for the pulling of TB. Here from MIT themselves:MIT FactsThe Massachusetts Institute of Technology is one of the world's preeminent research universities, dedicated to advancing knowledge and educating students in science, technology, and other areas of scholarship that will best serve the nation and the world in the 21st century. It is known for rigorous academic programs, cutting-edge research, a diverse campus community, and its longstanding commitment to working with the public and private sectors to bring new knowledge to bear on the world's great challenges. William Barton Rogers, the Institute's founding President, believed that education should be both broad and useful, enabling students to participate in "the humane culture of the community" and to discover and apply knowledge for the benefit of society. His emphasis on "learning by doing", on combining liberal and professional education, and on the value of useful knowledge, continues to be at the heart of MIT's educational mission. Most (70 percent) of the research conducted on the MIT campus is supported by the US government, but the Institute leads the nation in the amount of such funding received from private industry (nearly 20 percent). In a nutshell,,,TB2000 is against the intent of MIT and even Philip Greenspun's whole reason for hosting it(his Community building software). The DEAD POLLS posting recently sealed the thing for me. The sheer lack of uproar even the fact it was a sales peice from Caton, deeply moved me. This posting and the resulting comments indicates better than anything else, the folks on there are mentally ill. They are about nothing much but wishing for the deaths of millions, if not billions of people so as to ease their misery which is their lives. They stand in direct opposition to everything MIT, Greenspun, and vast majority of humanity stands for. Phil doesn't GI, he is far too busy with other things to care much. MIT I am guessing is unaware of the crap running thru their servers and the way their masthead is OKing the crap like Death Polls and all the other assorted crapola known as TB2000 webforum. more from MIT:use of MITNet1. Don't violate the intended use of MITnet. The purpose of MITnet is to support research, education, and MIT administrative activities, by providing access to computing resources and the opportunity for collaborative work. All use of the MIT network must be consistent with this purpose. For example: Don't try to interfere with or alter the integrity of the system at large, by doing any of the following: permitting another individual to use your account impersonating other individuals in communication(particularly via forged email or Zephyrgrams) attempting to capture or crack passwords or encryption destroying or altering data or programs belonging to other users Don't try to restrict or deny access to the system by legitimate users. Don't use MITnet for private financial gain. For example, users are not permitted to run a private business on MITnet. (Commercial activity is permitted, but only for business done on behalf of MIT or its organizations. Cf. Section 13.2.3 of MIT's Policies and Procedures: "MIT's computing and telecommunications facilities and services are to be used for Institute purposes only and not for the benefit of private individuals or other organizations without authorization.") Don't transmit threatening or harassing materials. (Cf. Rule 5.) Now the PROBLEM is Greenspun does not follow any of this. Clear reason why as I have hit on briefly. And I do mean briefly. How many at MIT would like to know Phil's arsdigita runs next to some of the largest Porno vendors on the web at above.net? Phil in fact is an investor in above.net Again, what he does is his business. I just want TB2000 off MITNet and severed from anything to do with MIT. And as I have noted in prior posts, Phil sells a book on HTML/AOL serverDBS etc which is doing exceedingly well. How does he sell it? Try over MITNet using the real way to sell things over the net, not banner ads(hint) as one avenue. Not to mention the fact arsdigita is a high-end consulting/hosting company of MIT grads whos' charges start in the low six figs. TB2000 is an advertisment of how to use Phil's software. Who is footing the bill for all of this? all of us. This is a very complex issue involving many seperate areas. Most of it exists simply because most in any position to do anything are not hip to what is going on. Phils thing is not unusual I am sure, not even at MIT. But I think it time many of these types clean house. And again, I merely want TB off the dole. Whatever "arrangement" Phil has with MIT is their business. I just feel TB2000 is not in anyway doing anybody any good. And frankly as a taxpayer I do not want the thing funded even in a round about way. Enough our teleco taxes and fees allow such trash an avenue. I have never been one to troll the swamp. I am not among that group. I do not even care if they move. I just want the thing off MIT. Maybe then the "mist" will lift and TB will be seen by more for what it is, a joke. Have not even hit at all on the fact TB2000 whole other intent is to sell Yourdon's 600 pages of NONSENSE book. These folks spit in your face and laugh all the way to the bank. MIT:MIT Policies and Procedures/Use of Information Technology13.2.3 Responsible Use of MIT Computers, Networks, and Telephones....... MIT's computers, networks, and telephones offer many opportunities to share information on campus and to access resources off campus. All members of the MIT community are obligated to use these facilities in accordance with applicable laws, with Institute standards of honesty and personal conduct, and in ways that are responsible, ethical, and professional. The use of MIT's telephones is restricted to Institute business and necessary personal telephone calls. Necessary personal telephone calls include calls to arrange family and personal schedules, medical-related calls, and other reasonable calls; these calls should be brief. No reimbursement to MIT is required for such calls. Telephone calls related to personal businesses and activities are prohibited unless a personal telephone credit card is used or an explicit agreement for reimbursement to MIT has been established with the appropriate organization. MIT's computing and networking facilities and services are to be used for Institute purposes only and not for the benefit of private individuals or other organizations without authorization. Unauthorized access to and use of MIT computer and network services violates this policy. Members of the Institute community should not take unauthorized actions to interfere with or alter the integrity of MIT computers, networks, telephones, or the information accessed through them. Efforts to restrict or deny access by legitimate users of the Institute's computers, networks, and telephones are unacceptable. Individuals should not use MIT facilities to interfere with or alter the integrity of any other computers, networks, telephones, or information, irrespective of their location. Destruction, alteration, or disclosure of data or programs belonging to others without authorization is inappropriate. Individuals should not connect unauthorized equipment to or tamper with MIT information technology facilities or equipment. Using any of the information technology resources of the Institute for unethical purposes, such as harassment, is unacceptable. Doc Paulie

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 02, 1999

Answers

Would some GI decipher this psychobabble?

Thanks.

-- Huh? (midwestmike_@hotmail.com), July 02, 1999.

I think his email addrsss says it all. fannybubbles? That's about all this effort is worth.

-- Max (_@_._), July 02, 1999.

I want all you doomers to take off those fruitcake magnets RIGHT NOW!! Where do all these idiots come from? Why can't they understand that this forum is for those who believe in y2k being something to prepare for. If it was a Muslum forum, would they, as good Christians, come into the forum and attempt to destroy it? Why don't they stay on their own forum where they share the same beliefs? Is it because its too boring for them....due to lack of any real content? These kinds of manipulative social pathics are really scarey. They are the same kind of people who "go postal". And if y2k isn't scarey enuff for us, along with Bin Laden, we will also have to contend with these idiots running around the streets.

Taz...who lives in the woods, and keeps a sharp eye out.

-- Taz (Tassie @aol.com), July 02, 1999.

Oops, I forgot to include the link.

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), July 02, 1999.

Doctor poorly is obvisously a f%$#ing Nazi...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), July 02, 1999.

Team,

Just talked directly with Phil Greenspun. Basically, he said don't worry about this.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 02, 1999.

Doc must have alot of time on his hands eh?

I hope that his forum and the greenspun site are both operational after the rollover. Quite the resource.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 02, 1999.

Brian & Valkyrie, did you feel the earthquake? 5.7 is noticeable!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), July 02, 1999.

Mr Decker was decent enough to post a challange and here is his question to the Debunker Board. You just read the response
 

Debunking Y2k webboard - Who is trying to destroy the Ed Yourdon forum?

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 02, 1999.

Doc paulie how dare you sir. Do you have crap for brains or are you just plain evil. Tb2000 is a national treasure. Y2k will probably be the second most important event to empact our planet since WWII. Maybe you dont think y2k is a big deal, but I do. You have never work on our nations early warning systems but I have. Im praying real hard for our world leaders that they can figure out how to keep things peaceful through what will definitely be the cluster f of the century. The goal of mr greenspun and others like myself who visit this site on a regular basis is to help millions of people around the world to survive the coming apocalypse. No we dont wish it to happen you sickie, we have families and friends we love very much and care for who are stuck in a denial mode that will put their existance at risk. MIT will be honored by the survivors of the y2k as being an organization of great integrity and community service for helping millions to survive the y2k by not listening to fools such as you doc. By seeing to it that our insitutions of academia will not cave in to govt induced slander or pressure when the lives of millions of people are at stake. To Mit sysop dont you dare take tb2000 off your net. It will be an incredible time capsule of how we reacted to this tremedous threat for our future generations to learn from.

-- y2k aware mike (y2k aware mike @ conservation . com), July 02, 1999.

Actually, THIS is Decker's question that Doc Paulie responded to --

http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb237006

... The real question... are you working, implicitly or explicitly, to "destroy" the Yourdon forum? Or is anyone else, for that matter? The primary references are one conversation involving "Cherri" and the recent comments by "Doc Paulie" with regard to public support of TB 2000.

I have not researched the DP issue, but perhaps someone can tell me... are public tax dollars supporting the Yourdon forum?

Regards,

Mr. Decker

OutingsR wonders why Decker would be interested in if public tax dollars support Timebomb 2000. Whatever, Decker's question has been answered: Yes, there IS an attempt to destroy this forum.

-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), July 02, 1999.

CPR went over the cliff first. Now Doc Paulie. Maybe Decker will go next week...

-- a (a@a.a), July 02, 1999.

Doc Paulie and the rest of those gutless wonders at Der Bonka are RUNNING SCARED!! What a bunch of Weasels.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), July 02, 1999.

Where are you friggin people? Take it off the MITNET? Why aren't you braindead, grant recieving, endowment sucking, big government loving, idiots paying attention to what's happening here. A five year old could spot the bullshit being fed to the world on a daily basis by Clinton and Kospinem! Unfortunately, the American public is currently reading and thinking at a fourth grade level, max!

Losers!

Greenspun, the only person at MIT with a brain? Say it ain't so MIT students. Put some pressure on these goobers. It's your future that's at stake.

-- Wilfred Brimley (eatmygrapenuts@myshorts.com), July 02, 1999.

Based on the content of this thread's initiating rant, one would presume the author to be speaking for an "authority", higher than him/herself, predisposed to squelching open debate by calling the medium of disclosure into question.

Not a good sign.

-- Charles R. (chuck_roast@trans.net), July 02, 1999.

And what exactly is your point, Mr. Wilfred Brimley?

You make me more confused.

-- confused (it's@so.confusing), July 02, 1999.

In the military we use to have a saying that if you are catching flack you are getting close to the target. The target here is the truth. the truth about a very scary problem called y2k and the impact it will have on every one we know love and care for. If y2k doesnt scare the crap out of you,either you are ignorant or brain dead. This forum must be pissing off the big brass,in the, Govt and f100 corporations to come under such an organized assult on our Consititutional right of free speech.

-- y2k aware mike (y2k aware mike @ conservation .com), July 02, 1999.

I think Ray is onto something! All the trolls seem to have gone into some kind of self-destruct mode. Decker is frothing so much EVEN HE can't seem to even get his story straight (of course when you are saying two completely different things on two completely different forums, I can see why). Paul Davis seems to have resigned himself to just play with his telescope, but apparently is not getting any satisfaction from it. Gosh, these were the most eloquent and polished of our trolls, and they are now reduced to whining, begging and crying for "upper management" to remove our forum via this sicko "Doc" Paulie.

What does not distroy us makes us stronger. And I believe that the Yourdon forum will not only stomp these trolls, but will actually emerge to be the best Y2K prep caring and sharing forum than it would ever have been otherwise!

-- King of Spain (marid@aol.com), July 02, 1999.

Here's a good one, compiled from today's debunkery compost:

CPR writes:

We have beaten North and Yourdon at their own propaganda game: WITH INFORMATION.

What kind of information you ask?

Stephen Pool writes:

I Have Figured Out The Problem

The problem is that Y2K has no knock-knock jokes.

-- a (a@a.a), July 02, 1999.

Well folks, there it is for all to see. NAZISM plain and simple. I disagree with those "idiots" at TB2K, so I must SILENCE them. I cannot burn their books, so I will shut them down.

What's next Doc? Burning at the stake? Extraction of confessions via the Iron Maiden? Red hot pokers, and finger nail pulling? Is that not the proper response to heathens and un-believers?

You indulge in a behavior that is worse than that which you claim to detest. Are your ideas so lacking in persuasiveness that you feel your position is lost? Is your position so tenuous that a free exchange of thoughts and ideas is a threat to it?

You are a disgrace. An utterly contemptible waste who must resort to censure to have his ideas prevail. You make me ill.

-- Unc D (unkeed@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

To "Doc" Paulie,

Sir/Madam,

In reference to the posting above, you seem to be operating under certain misunderstantings as to the purpose of the Government granting process of 6.1 Basic Research funding lines to various Research Institutions (including MIT) regarding Y2K information dissemination/ discussion. If you are interested in a continued (productive only, please) dialog regarding these issues and their validity, feel free to contact me at the email address below.

V/R,

Spindoc'

-- Spindoc' (spindoc_99_2000@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

Interesting stuff. Though it's probably just for show, Paulie's efforts are catching some flack at Debunkey's. cpr has discovered Thomas Jefferson. Hasn't figured out the Bill of Rights in today's context yet but it's kinda fun to watch.

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), July 03, 1999.

You scooped me there, Unc -- just as the thought came to mind, you appeared on the 'refresh':

Historians have wondered, recently, just how many Germans actually killed, and actively participated in the killing of, Jews. 500,000 was one figure. How did formerly decent, middle-class, educated, some professionally-trained, white Europeans turn in a few short years into killers of people very much like themselves whom they had little individual hatred for?

How did Serbian men turn into mass rapers of young Kosovar women, before killing them and stuffing their bodies down wells?

Bullies.

Small-scale losers looking for a jump in status.

Sensing vulnerability. Seeing a minority group unprotected by the larger society. Seeing potential scapegoats.

Krystallnacht.

Ku Klux Klan

Sand Creek and Wounded Knee

"C'mon gang! Let's get 'em!"

The ringleader boy who tortures cats -- and finally Kris Kristofferson -- in the film "The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With the Sea."

Lord of the Flies.

Pol Pot.

Nothing like a bully on a mission. A strutting little Heydrich who smells a promotion and a pat on the back from Der Fuhrer.

The small miracle of our forum is how many potential SCHINDLERs we've drawn here at one time or another. Not starting out intending to be heroes or humanitarians, but keeping an intelligent eye open to the ways of survival for self, family, neighbors....

We may _mention_ the possible loss of millions of lives; it doesn't mean we advocate it or work toward it. Our horror at such an outcome is clear, even if we at times show a fascination for looking ahead into the face of chaos.

The bullies are the ones, throughout history, who have organized the great slaughters. Let's learn from their presence to better recognize and appreciate the compassionate faces among us.

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), July 03, 1999.

I think the ole "Doc" is suffering from delusions.

Besides, this forum offers TPTB too much of an opportunity to study, gage and even test the public - especially the GI public.

Naw, this is a great way to have a kind of a "think-tank" comprised of average citizens without paying the high salaries. Supporting an MIT server is a small price to pay.

Mike ================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), July 03, 1999.

fORGivE DieTrE HiS IgnoRAncE, biTTe??????? wAS NoT JOseF mENgELE A dOc tOO??????

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), July 03, 1999.

Thank you, Dieter, for the reality check, as always. Keep keepin' us honest!

Spindoc'

-- Spindoc' (spindoc_99_2000@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

Relax Doc or Reduviid Dick or something (Look it up stupid)

Haven't you figured it out yet? We *are* a research project for MIT!!!

Bwahahahahahah

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), July 03, 1999.

"Relax Doc or Reduviid Dick or something (Look it up stupid) Haven't you figured it out yet? We *are* a research project for MIT!!!

Bwahahahahahah

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), July 03, 1999."

Sorry, Michael,

Too many "Doc's" around here; which one are you referring to?

A funder of said research projects,

Spindoc'

-- Spindoc' (spindoc_99_2000@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

"Doc" Paulie,

My email is real. I welcome an exchange of dialog. I await your reply.

V/R,

Spindoc'

-- Spindoc' (spindoc_99_2000@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

Somebody needs to 'frisbee' a trash can lid at THIS guy and nail him in the adam's apple. He's crazier than that gander of mine. Perhaps he's protecting HIS eggs as well. Scrambled or sunny side up?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), July 03, 1999.

Here ya go "Doc"...you twisted, delusional Nazi.

The following are the top 10 forums as listed on the following link:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/sort-by-n-messages.tcl

* TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000); 142584 messages, latest on July 03, 1999 * The Government of the United States; 8681 messages, latest on July 02, 1999

* TitanicShack; 7626 messages, latest on July 03, 1999

* Electric Utilities and Y2K; 5301 messages, latest on July 03, 1999

* Large format photography; 5167 messages, latest on July 02, 1999

* Nature Photography Image Critique; 4395 messages, latest on July 02, 1999

* Monster Rancher; 3629 messages, latest on July 02, 1999

* Imaging Resource Discussion; 3474 messages, latest on July 03, 1999 * Philosophy of Photography; 3372 messages, latest on July 03, 1999

* Catholic; 2676 messages, latest on July 03, 1999

Why don't you put on that special Batman costume your mommy keeps clean for you and venture out into Gotham City for some serious play time. Oh, and the cookies and milk will be on the table when you're done

-- YOU HAVE NO POWER (NOW AND @FTER Y2k.com), July 03, 1999.

When you have a WILD ANIMAL cornered, the only thing left for it to do is lash out at you. Expect much more of this from the polly's as we get closer to the roll over. This is a great example, as to why we need GUNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), July 03, 1999.

King of Spain, Declaimer of the Great Truths, Protector of the Mud Pit, Your Majesty:

To be fair, Dickering Decker didn't demand deletion of dis forum, neither did Sayn't Paul. What would they do without this nose to explore for boogers, displaying them, real or imagined, on the tips of their index fingers for all to see?

Cpr may have gone on record as being against complaining about the forum to MIT, but we are still wondering if he retains those files he said he was collecting on Yourdon participants, and if he intends to turn them over to the FBI (as hinted).

-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), July 03, 1999.

Outings

Of course you are right. Could you imagine if this site was not here? The would have to talk amoung themselves.

ROTFLMAO!!!! TO FUNNY!!!

couldn't imagine it (tears rolling down face)

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 03, 1999.

jor-el, you've hit it on the head. Bullies have always been with us, and :::::sigh:::::probably always will be. I've been fortunate enough to actually see 'Universal Law' in action, however, and it *is* comforting.

Will Continue, I think his eggs are pickled.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), July 03, 1999.

To: Doc Paulie

If MIT founder William Barton Rogers explicitely wanted to enable students to participate in " The Humane Culture of the Community", then TB2000 is EXACTLY the kind of educational opportunity he would have approved of.

It is elitist, leftwing, closeminded, so-called scientists like yourself who are causing the downfall of higher education in this country!

-- (Minuteman@Concord.com), July 03, 1999.

Brian & OutingsR,

It's pretty funny thinking that were his "raison d'etre."

LOL. What would he complain about then? Might have to look in a mirror closely.

If you read the cpr FBI file comments... well... there's another one who needs a close self-examination. Starts here... and devolves...

FBI monitoring Y2k EXTREMISTS and LISTS (cpr) (17-May-1999 12:41:43)

http:// www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb237006&MyNum= 926959303&P=No&TL=926959303

Why he ASSUMES a good many of us are somehow un-American is beyond me. Or that if we heard about some terrorist activites that we wouldn't report that. Heck, as a witness to an armed robbery, once I helped testify and send the idiot to prison.

Cpr sees all those who discuss Y2K issues as subversives that he personally must "track."

A real wierd one too. He and Doc are quite a strange pair, IMHO.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

tinfoil, I need more tinfoil.....so muchhhh confussssssion...burp!

What the hell is going on here? Would someone explain the meaning of this thread. I'm clueless.........

-- Mike (midwestmike_@hotmail.com), July 03, 1999.

Mike,

There is a um, radical person at the De Bunker site, who disagrees with open discussions on Y2K issues, and he is trying to get MIT and Phil Greenspun to CENSOR the TimeBomb 2000 Forum by either closing it down, or getting it moved off the MIT computers.

It won't happen. Already talked to Phil Greenspun about it.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

[Sayn't Paul, this is a polly-troll post so just skip over it like you tell everyone else to do, OK?]

Look, a big juicy booger, just mined at the world's biggest booger mine (in response to Dreck's question about who's trying to destroy this forum) --

http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb237006&MyNum=9 31003085&P=Yes&TL=930916227

It beats me - trolls and the current sysops would be my guess Saturday, 03-Jul-1999 07:58:05, 12.67.16.58 writes:

That stuff got started back in January, pretty low key then. Some of us who had not expected much trouble from the Jo Ann effect pointed out that trouble did not materialize on schedule. Also, the Euro did not collapse the economy of Europe, as GN and company were fervently hoping. That discussion got shrill in a hot minute. And it wound up with some people yelling that anyone who expected less than a 6 was just crazy and trying to prevent anyone else from preparing. I have never given a damn how much anyone else prepares, I have just tried to point out that the extremists are overdoing it. You would think I was holding a gun on them or something. From some of the remarks, I think certain peoples spouses are reading the discussions, and telling their mates they think I am right. Some of them think if they shut me up their spouse will fall in line with the prepare for TEOTW line.

From that point on, things started going downhill. Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts showed up, and started annoying everyone. Now he was a troll, granted, but an anti-doomer troll.

Most of the time you knew what was going on, as he mostly posted under threads he started. Sometimes he would just post nonsense on other threads. Very annoying fellow, I never responded to him that I can recall. This went on for a while, then he got tired of the game and left.

Trouble was, some of the other folks felt compelled to respond to him. That is always a mistake. These types consider ANY response to be applause. The verbal war got hot, culminating in a fiction story too nasty to link to here, explaining how he would wind up in Milne's barn post Y2K, strung up by the testicles and then both dying and being cooked due to an explosion caused by his own flatulence. Milne then traded the carcass off to a troupe of wandering whores and Latte sellers as smoked ham. That is the most neutral recounting of the end of the story that it is possible to relate.

After JBD left, about the first of April, the doomers were primed. They had developed a mentality of 'us' against 'them', and even long time posters like myself were subject to increasingly bitter attacks for no worse crime than expressing our opinions. For a time, I virtually stopped posting entirely. I hoped the rhetoric would cool down, and we would be able to have reasonable conversations once more.

Unfortunatly, that did not happen. I returned to the fray in a major way when Bruce Beach showed up. It was plain to me, and to every tech I showed it to, that Beach had a very shallow understanding of the technical issues he was bringing up. So he retreated to his fallback position of third hand stories about oil and gas problems, and has pretty much stayed there ever since.

That debate seemed to set off several people in a bad way. OutingsR showed up, posting crap along behind anyone who was not a member in good standing of the doom sect. Her (OutingsR is Old Git, so I believe, perhaps fleshed out by other people using the name) favorite tactic was to post thread headers from this forum over there and howl about 'so and so is making fun of us'.

Now Will Continue and King of Spain have joined in that chorus. Constant off-topic nonsense following around after anyone who wants to discuss the meaning and possible outcomes of the technical issues re the Y2K problem.

Some of the current trolls favorite lines are garbage like 'WHY ARE YOU DISCUSSING THIS - WE ALREADY KNOW THE POWER IS GONE - THIS IDIOT IS PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT (indirectly, yes, that is true as I work for a contractor under a federal contract - not what they mean though) - DAVIS IS JUST A TROLL SO IGNORE HIM.

Really brilliant contributions to the conversation. It is now impossible to discuss any technical matter over there without one of these idiots showing up.

King of Spain showed up in a discussion of optical instruments and telescopes the other day - not even relating to Y2K unless you wanted to build your own after the fact.

And the twits that howl 'WHY ARE YOU WASTING MY VALUABLE PREP TIME' are the most annoying. They can't read the thread headers? Skip over it if you can't stand to read anything I post. That has to be the most stupid comment I have had directed at me since the third grade.

Right now, I have to say that trolls are the ones trying to destroy the Yourdon forum. With, I might add, the encouragement of the current forum moderators.

Paul Davis

-- OutingsR (us@here.yar), July 03, 1999.

Boy, he sure got the Bagga Saga ending wrong! JBD was alive and kicking, and the convoy was made up of bartering survivors who were doing rather well, if eccentric. Farmer Milne and Cory were formulating a plan ... Miss those laughs! Nobody took those silly relief threads seriously! Ah, those were the days ... ;^)

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), July 03, 1999.

Don't mind the screams folks, that's just me nailing my left hand to my desk. I gotta stop this spinning. Thanks Dianne, but I'm still not clear on all this. What is the URL to the "Debunker" site? And would someone please give me a definition and history of the term debunker. Final Q, do any TB2K regulars post on the "debunker" forum?

-- Damn that hurt! (midwestmike_@hotmail.com), July 03, 1999.

DNS fans-- I'm posting this from a friend's computer in another city. But it's reeely me, just the same.

Paul D. writes: "....trolls are the ones trying to destroy the Yourdon forum. With, I might add, the encouragement of the current forum moderators."

Paul, any constructive suggestions you may have on how to handle trash postings here would be very helpful to those "current forum moderators."

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), July 04, 1999.

Tom, I agree with you.

Paul, do share.

Mike ====================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), July 04, 1999.

Ditto... Paul.

Love to hear "Paul's Take."

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 04, 1999.

Diane wrote

FBI monitoring Y2k EXTREMISTS and LISTS (cpr) (17-May-1999 12:41:43)

http:// www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb237006& MyNum= 926959303&P=No&TL=926959303

Why he ASSUMES a good many of us are somehow un-American is beyond me.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well I am quite un - American :o)

Canadian hooser eh?

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 04, 1999.

LOL Brian,

But you'd miss the forum right? Believe in freedom of speech as well, eh?

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 04, 1999.