As all good Y2K'ers know, one essential item to store is Beer. I have a few problems with this though. I have some basic questions on the Shelvability if the item.

1) What are the proper non-rerigerated conditions for beer storage? (take for example the Northeast,, I don't think storing it outside is good because of the temerature change questions..)

2) Under the proper conditions what is a reasonable shelf life for beer until it deteriorates into basic panther piss.

3) What effects do changing temperatures from chilled, to warm and back to chilled have on beer.

4) What would be an appropriate amount per household to store and should one make a difference in selection between lager and pilsner for value?

5) Comments?

Slammer

-- Slammer (Slammer@Slama.Rama), July 02, 1999

Answers

basic panther piss???you mean miller or bud???

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), July 02, 1999.

Slammer

If you buy it cold, keep it cold. If you buy it at room temp, keep it at room temp till it's time to chill it, then keep it cold. Temp changes can definitely 'damage' beer. I've had beer in the fridge for months that was OK. It's the ones that get left outside in the cooler for a few days, then stuck back in the fridge (warm) that are nasty.

Damn zoobie - we actually agree on something. That sucks huh!

Panther piss - hilarious!!!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.

Now we have a topic of real importance.

Letting beer freeze is a real crime. Warm beer is even worse. I would suggest a root cellar just for beer. This would be a solution for the warmer climes and the cooler ones. Do we have any compliance statements from the big brewries? What are their contingency plans?

As a Canadian I feel that this could be a real crisis. Possibly we need to contact Don Cherry for some "high" level exposure on the problem. NOTHING with disrupt the Canadian consciousness more than the lack of beer and hockey. The lack of "pops" on demand would indicate a true failure of the system. I am sure that the US feelings on the matter would be similar. That is the hight of your football season, the implications are profond.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 02, 1999.

This is of course not to imply that the US has real beer :o)

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 02, 1999.

Hey Slammer, learn to brew your own beer. Problem solved

-- (beer@guy.com), July 02, 1999.

Do not store bottle beer oxygen gets under the cap after about 6 months. Buy a home brewery make your own when you need it. CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Bubba (Badhabbit@water.com), July 02, 1999.

I'm gonna be stuck up here in middle Minnesota(inbetween Duluth and Minneapolis), so I'm gonna make like a Ruskie in Siberia---VODKA.

It keeps well, and won't freeze(normally anyway). Nastrovia(sp)

-- CygnusXI (luppotreb@aol.com), July 02, 1999.

The only real answer is to dehydrate it. (Try some of that 4000 year old Egyptian stuff they discovered recently. But be careful, they had to pry the sample from the mummy's cold, dead fingers first. (Ooops, sorry, wrong sponser.)

Now, I should add that if there is a choice between no beer; and hot, rewarmed, defrozen, shaken and strred, old moth-eaten panther piss from a dusty bottle, I'd take the frozen panther piss any time.

But of course locally brewed horse piss (or thawed, or half-baked, or re-baked, or whatever) from TX would be better than any frosty imported panther piss.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 02, 1999.

On the other hand, as long as you have beer, there IS no Y2K crisis.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 02, 1999.

Deano is correct, keep warm beer warm and cool beer cool. As to the maximum shelf life I would hazard a guess at anywhere from 6-9 months if kept in a cool cellar, but this is a guess only. Once beers enter the Deedah household they are living on borrowed time, and none escape their sentence.

If the idea of running out of beer scares you as much as it does me, learn how to make your own.

Brewing your own is simple if you brew from extracts, it is about as hard as making Campbells soup. The most important thing to remember is to keep everything that will touch your beer SANITIZED! Bleach is the cheapest way to do that.

Save your 2 liter soda bottles for your brew, it is the perfect container for two reasons. First, a used 2 liter soda bottle will easily withstand the pressure of carbonated beer without bursting or popping it's top. Secondly, it is a built in excuse to drink 2 liters! I mean, what if you stored it overnight in the fridge and it went flat? Horrors! Don't let that happen, drink it up!

Cheers!

-- Unc D (unkeed@yahoo.com), July 02, 1999.

Hell of a thread... Thank you all for the belly laugh...

BREW YOUR OWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gettin a drink,

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 02, 1999.

Damn Unk D!

"Deano is right"

Bet that hurt coming out!! I liked the 'living on borrowed time' line. You and I have more in common than you would like.......:-)

Next round's on me!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.

One of the major brewers (forget which, so they wasted their advert money) makes a point of the "freshness" of their beer. (And this is regular canned/bottled, not so-called draft in a bottle [whatever that is]). And I've heard elsewhere that the shelf life is maybe six months. So the lesson is, beer gets worse with age. Can you cultivate a taste for wine (which maintains far longer)?

-- A (A@AisA.com), July 02, 1999.

Remember what the SF author RAH said, "always store beer in a dark place". BTW he also said "get your first shot off fast, this upsets them long enough to make your second shot perfect".

-- sigmund (down@thehatch.com), July 02, 1999.

And that strong drink can make you shoot at revenue agents: and miss..

Seriously, anyone ready for beer "British Style" room tempurature? I've tried it recently to attempt to develop a taste. As robert says, any beer is much better than no beer.

anyone have any experience in brewing beer in an older, "vat" style? Say about 1800 AD technology?

-- Jon Williamson (pssomerville@sprintmail.com), July 02, 1999.

Okay - so when we make our beer, we are supposed to start with bleach in two liter bottles to kill all the other germs....makes sense to me. How do I kill the taste of the clorox when I re-hydrate it later?

Wouldn't it be faster to just start with horse piss in the first place?

Also, I usually make Campbell's soup by opening the can. (Sometimes I heat it up too.) But when I open a can of beer, its already beer - or at least it looks like beer. How do I make home-brewed beer if its already beer?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 02, 1999.

No TV and no beer makes me go crazy!!

-- Doh!! (homer@simpson.fan), July 02, 1999.

Beer: Bottles are washed and used again, that is, refilled. Every once in a while they don't get so "clean". Every time they fill a can it is a brand new can. Pasturized beer, which is canned and bottled, last much longer then the reccomended pull date of 120 days. You will know upon opening the can. Drought; Draft beer is not pasturized and is good for 60 days, optimal is 30 days. I suggest cheap canned beer and alot of it. Especially with the food we are going to be eating

-- burrrrrrrp !! (working@the tavern.net), July 02, 1999.

Finally, a thread of great import! Sweetie makes his own pale ale--if he didn't, I couldn't afford him. Here's a previous thread:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Ieb

You can buy hop plants and grow yer own. (I seem to remember hops do not come true from seed but I may be wrong.) Be really creative and grow your vines on trellises in front of your south and west facing windows--helps control summer sun, gives you beer. What more could you want?

P.S. We've been drinking it warm in Britain ever since, er, well, ever since.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), July 02, 1999.

At the risk of seeming too serious,why not brew the real thing youself using barley grain. You can get 50lb sacks of malted barley for like 30 odd bucks and depending on what you like,microbrew style or whatever you could get 5 or 6 batches(5-6gals/batch)out of that sack. Basically you need the malt,a couple of clean kettles ,a couple of glass carboy jugs for fermenting and a decent thermometer. In a nutshell,what you need to do is crack the barley(not hard in a hand grain mill,much easier than grinding wheat beries!!)then soak in 150 degree water for 2 hours to convert the starch. I do about 10 lbs. in about 4 gals of water. Then you drain it off into a boiling kettle, as big as possible,then put 4-5gals more of 150 deg water into to soak with the spent grains. This you only need to soak for 15 minutes. Drain this off into the boiling kettle and bring the whole thing to a boil making 2or 3 additions of hops. I add 1 oz of hops right away, another oz 30 min into the boil and another about 15 min from the end with a total boil time of 75 min. Then I cool it ,pour it into clean carboys or food grade plastic containers covered and pitch the beer yeast in. Serious micro brewers would probably laugh their tails off at these instructions,but hey,works for me.The basics to remember are that cleanliness is indeed next to godliness,most problems that occur are due to unwanted bacteria. I do my boiling outside in the cold season using a portable gas stove(but did use a wood fire for years,it's just more work). Initially the fermentation will go crazy ,after that it's important to keep the air out using a rubber stopper and fermentation lock. I use a 6+ gal carboy initially after I pitch the yeast and then siphon it into a 5 gal one after 2-3 days. Filled carboys of all grain beer would keep okay for a couple of years in a moderate cellar. Will never last that long in our thirsty household though. Any place where you can buy malt will tell you how to bottle it,you need caps,capper and CLEAN!! recycled bottles. American champagne bottles will accept a cap and they're usually plentiful at recycling centers. Also barley malt will keep for years if kept dry,like other grains,so it would be a very valuable trade item in years to come if TSHTF,even if you don't feel up to doing it yourself just yet. Cheers. howie

-- howie (dryfarmer@hotmail.com), July 02, 1999.

The critical issues...how do we replace Heineken Dark? How do we replace the essence of Guiness mixed with the heartiness of Bass (that's a Black and Tan, folks). This is the TRUE Y2K isue...disruption of important supply chains, and I think disruption of the beer supply chain is far more important than most. The Great Aerican Beer Machine has worked well for me. I have some extra brew bags stored. Keep 'em cool and we'll see. If it tastes like some of the swill I've had, I'll switch to hard stuff and pour the failures on the garden.

-- Mr. Mike (mikeabn@aol.com), July 02, 1999.

I'm not really a beer geek. Here's what I think I know.

1. Heavily hopped keeps better. India Pale Ales are supposed to be heavily hopped, or they shouldn't be called that. Grant's is a line that is heavily hopped.

2. If glass bottles, the darker the glass the better (i.e. brown is best) and I think even artificial light will hurt the beer. Avoid sunlight at all costs.

3. The really wonderful beers from microbreweries are apt not to keep well.

As Anita Bryant put it so well, "a day without beer is like a day without sunshine. Beer, it's not just for breakfast anymore." Or something like that.

-- Peter Errington (petere@ricochet.net), July 02, 1999.

For those who like their beer reeeeeal mellow, bottle up some barleywine. I understand the shelf life is much longer than that of regular beer. Alcohol content is higher too. If I had room on the boat, I'd be making it. Enjoy, Tim

-- Tim Johnson (timca@webtv.net), July 02, 1999.

You're on a boat, on a holiday weekend, with beer, and didn't invite us?

Shame, shame........but I'll think of you every time I pastyoureyes my beer by tilting up another empty.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 02, 1999.

Well sure Robert. come on over. Bring a crawdad trap and cajun spice.

-- Tim Johnson (timca@webtv.net), July 02, 1999.

Sweetie had a draft Guinness the other night at a new Irish pub and immediately asked if they had rooms for rent. He hasn't had a draft Guinness for a while, poor lad. But on to the important stuff--there are recipes for home-brewed Guinness on the Web. As I recall, the ingredient giving it its distinctive taste is LICORICE. Yup! So it's probably also good for constipation. There are some Guinness recipes at the following URL; the first page was all food made with Guinness, so don't bother looking for it unless you want to waste the stuff.

http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=aq&q=guinness+AND+recipe+AND +NOT+beef+OR+pie&r=guinness+recipes&stq=10&c9k

If you've got some bubbly left over from NYE, you can mix it 50-50 with the Guinness and make a Black Velvet.

Will someone keep an eye on this thread so it can be exported to the new prep forum when it's up? We need to keep the crucial ones.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), July 02, 1999.

Sorry, Miss Git. I refuse to follow any thread (or link title) that has more equations and SQL link criteria in it than my nuclear-powered CAd programs......and pass me another of them there crawdad's.

Are crawdad's year 2000 compliant too?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 03, 1999.

Deano and cook and uncle D agreeing on something? Where's Flint when you need him?

-- what me worry? (noway@nohow.com), July 03, 1999.

You guys have no class,

nothing wrong with warm beer :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), July 03, 1999.

Damm it Andy the only time I drink warm beer is when there is no cold beer. If one can't plan for cold beer how are you going to plan to survive harder things??

Dress them up but can't take them anywhere.

By the way the "Y2K challanged" don't post on beer threads!!! We have indication of mentality **VBG**

Canadian Draft tonight

(no I am not a rep.)

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 03, 1999.

Don't worry Brian my cache of Guinness will be plenty cold on a January Denver day... ;)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), July 03, 1999.

OG

I bookmarked the thread long ago (Like right after my first post) and will be out on the next installment of the Prep Archive.

Just don't know what category,,, all of them ????? ***VBG***

-- Brian (imager@home.com), July 03, 1999.

Well, it's a relief to see we have our priorities straight--26 responses on the toilet paper thread, 32 (now 33) on this one! Yes, it's going to be a GOOD prep forum! Brian, did I tell you what a tremendous job you've done on the indexing of TB2K? No? Sorry. Okay, you've done a TREMENDOUS job, it's an incredible feat! Let's hear it for Brian, folks, raise that glass!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), July 03, 1999.

Brew your own?

I hope you got lots of propane. It takes alot of fuel to boil 5 gallons.

You might try making cider, I hear that you just add yeast to apple cider. But then again, where do you get the fresh apple cider?

Boy will this get rough!

-- Joe O (ozarkjoe@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

Mr. Mike,

Second that concern about the imported beer supply chains! Heineken Dark, is my beer of choice.

Fortunately, living near California wine country means liquid substitutions may be available. (I devoutly trust!). Otherwise this Y2K thingy could be real annoying.

If push comes to shove, I'll volunteer as a grape crusher. (Think Lucy).

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), July 03, 1999.

Laughing and laughing...what a great Thread! I think we finally discovered the great link to pull everyone together, to diminish small disagreements. Has anyone sent this to the Patriot movement? If they would only store beer, learn to brew beer etc. they will have a great united army to fight for America!

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), July 04, 1999.

Wow,

And I though I was the only one who thought beer was important. After reading this I guess the plan must vary based on your assessment of Y2K.. If you think the supply chain will be interrupted for the long term (i.e. > 6 Mos.) it's probably best to own the means of production and keep the ingredients dry (Hops, Barley, Wheat). This is value added because it would also double as a source of income if it's TEOTWAWKI. If your assessment is less extreme I would guess the answer would be to buy warm beer by the case (canned probably less risk of air leaks) and store in a cool dry place. If your going for most bang for the buck, a Lager would most likely be the choice. Although I am kinda partial to the Newcastle Nut Brown Ales, of late. Guess I'll buy warm on 12/31 and look for a 6 mos. solution.. Thanks All.. Slammer

-- Slammer (Slammer@Slamma.Ramma), July 06, 1999.

Too complicated......think "available" first as a criteria. Then 'wet". (Or dehydrated" as the case may become.)

Once the presence of beer, (or fermented grape juice - for Miss Diane) is established as a given, only then you can start discussing varieties and flavors.

Diane - speaking of which, I'd recommend you consider the importance of turn-around time in your preference list. Several variatels require much less time wasted sitting in the barrel than others.

Personally, I'd figure twenty - thirty minutes more than enough time to wait, but your mileage may vary. 8<)

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 06, 1999.