The location i have chosen for bug-out has several Amish families homesteading nearby. I believe some of the skills and assets could be invaluable if this thing lasts more than a year. What would be a good thing to stock up on to barter with them should the need arise? Does anyone here have any experiance dealing with these type people?

-- steve (steve@NWMo.com), July 01, 1999

Answers

I lived near an Amish settlement for two years and left the area about six months ago. In the last few months before I moved I had the opportunity to talk with a few Amish and Mennonite business people regarding y2k. They are largely clueless, but aware of the problem. Those that have businesses (grocers, feed stores, furniture makers) have not thought through how JIT problems might affect their businesses (not to mention how a recession migt hamper tourism.) In their opinion y2k doesn't concern them because it involves computers and they don't "use" them. (Guess again.)

I tried to explain to one Amishman how computer problems in refining and JIT could affect the kerosene supply for example. As I explained I could see the wheels turning, but it's hard to say if he ever "got it."

Many Amish and certainly Mennonites have become interdependent. Their "separateness" in the case of the Amish is largely illusionary. They use the same banks, clinics and hospitals that the rest of use. In farming areas where acreage can run $5,000+ an acre they are just as fully integrated and interdependent on the commodities markets as the "English" corn and soybean farmer down the road using Case and IH equipment.

For barter, stock up on kerosene and "compressed air."

-- don't count on it (don't@emailme.com), July 01, 1999.

I have sold timber to the amish in our area. They will pay a decent price for pine.

-- LG (mimesis@webtv.net), July 01, 1999.

We work with the Amish in our area, and are personal friends of several families. They are very much aware of the problem in our area, and are preparing. While you are right that they have somewhat "integrated" into our world, they have a network that is all across the country, and they maintain all the skills they need to survive.

They know that we are into "using" them, and generally they are distrustful. Our friend told us that many of the craftsmen he knows are no longer willing to sell to us "english", but are selling only to other Amish.

They are prepared to trade with each other, and are not worried about losing kerosene, etc... they just go back to wood, rise with the dawn, work all day long, and go to bed when it gets dark.

You, in order to earn their respect, have to be totally honest with them, work as hard as they do, and be willing to work alongside them at chores you wouldn't choose to do.

I would suppose one thing you might consider having on hand to barter with would be fabric and thread. For clothing, the ladies prefer polyester(doesn't require ironing), quilting cottons, quilting needles, polyester quilt batting, and quilting thread would be good

-- housemouse (jgj@nevermind.net), July 01, 1999.

I too live near many Mennonites and Amish and agree with whats been said. But I didn't see mentioned (maybe I read too fast) the most practical items to barter:

Salt, Sugar, Flour (few grind their own), honey, and other staples --- the Amish don't "make" these either. But they usually have more than enough eggs, milk (therefore butter), and meat to trade.

Also tools - axes, shovels, hammer, nails, knives for skinning or cutting, MATCHES (they don't rub sticks together), hats, gloves, boots, medicines --- all the things YOU need (except electrical or vices like alchohol) but can't easily make or get off the land.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), July 01, 1999.

housemouse--

>>>(The Amish) are not worried about losing kerosene, etc... they just go back to wood, rise with the dawn, work all day long, and go to bed when it gets dark.<<<

Uh, housemouse the area of the country I was in didn't have any trees to speak of. Central IL prarie. Never saw a wood pile next to anyone's house that amounted to anything. Most of the families I was familiar with were using LP to cook and refrigerate and kero for lighting. Wood for the cabinet and furniture makers came in by tractor-trailor. Finished products went out the same way.

Loss of power in the form of compressed air, LP, kerosene, gas, white gas delivery disruptions would put the Amish businessmen I knew right out of business. The are very much dependent on the USPS, Fed Ex, UPS, semi-tractor trail freight and the rail system. They need parts and equipment that is not fabricated by other Amish. Phone and fax service is necessary too. Their nationwide network won't mean squat if these other things don't work or work well. (No USPS no copies of "The Budget.")

(By the way, the Amishman who made my office furniture called me on the phone, twice, to tell me part of my order would be late. Since I was a local customer I was surprised...go figure.)

Many of the younger Amish and Mennonites worked off the farm for wages in various small industrial concerns...all very much dependent on business as usual to survive. With commodity prices in and out of the crapper over the past few years, I doubt that many of the farmers would have been able to service their debt if it hadn't been for the "paid wages" of other family members (or at least that's what the local banker told me.)

If disruptions are moderate and short-lived they'll be less miserable than most people. In a prolonged recesssion or depression scenario they'll be subject to market vagaries just like everyone else. Those who own their property outright will of course fare the best, but that could be said of any one. Only the debt-free, true subsistence Amish farmer will make it through unscathed. I doubt that in reality there are very few of those around (except in our idealized imaginations.)

If it gets so bad that steve is bartering with the Amish in his area for food, well...just remember that most of these guys are using hybirds from seed companies (they have to for marketability reasons) and come spring may not be putting in a crop.

-- don't count on it (don't@emailme.com), July 01, 1999.

The positive aspect of having Amish and Mennonite settlements in your area is that some local businesses will have the items they need on a regular basis and that you will need for Y2K. In our family we have some small settlements nearby.

Plus a few hours down the road, one of the in-laws family lives in the heart of Amish country. Even better, one of our nephews there works at a large local hardware store which is stocked to the rafters with old-ways technology.

Guess who gets to spend his overtime checks there?

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), July 01, 1999.

Steve,

I grew up in Lancaster County, in Pennsylvania. The Amish and Mennonites there are some of the finest people to deal with of any group I have met anywhere in the world, bar none!

Go meet them now, don't wait for Y2K! Just introduce yourself. Visit one of their roadsite fruitstands if they have one. Buy some peaches and some corn. They love to discuss the weather, particularly the amount of rainfall. Compliment them on their farms. Show great respect for their ways. Do not, I repeat do not take their picture!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't even ask.

They work off a handshake! More knowledgeable about world events than given credit for. Most understand Kosovo, even though they will not bear arms.

Things they need:

Propane is used to run some of their farm equipment, particularly the milking equipment.

Wax for candles. Oil for lanterns. Lyme for the outhouse. Toilet Paper, toilet paper, and more toilet paper.

My favorite - Lemonade.

Solar is probably ok. Maybe a solar well or pump for irrigation.

Many grow tobacco. If crop can't get to Phillip Morris, guess what no cigarettes! Have paper to role for others. Even though they grow it, they don't smoke it.

Wood has been mentioned already - provide and split.

Chicken feed

Vulnerable in the area of seeds and security. The Amish will not defend themselves, so that is something you might be able to provide from a distance. Don't let people take advantage of these people and trample and steal their crops.

They love to buy and sell livestock. Have some of the finest horsestock in the country. Milk they will need to sell along with most of what they produce. Lumber has been mentioned and is heavily used. The Amish are some of the best carpenters around.

Offer your muscles, and if you get desperate you can offer your services to clean out the outhouse. Some family member has to do it yearly, it might as well be you, unless you have Dieter, Al-dung heap, Y2K Pro, c-4i or corrine living close-by. Would be a heck of small business. No smokers or maybe will have to report another explosion.

In closing two final thoughts, Three Mile Island close by, maybe potassium iodide.

Last summer an Amishman commented on the subject of waterfowl. With so much wildlife protection going on the waterfowl particularly the Canadian Geese are florishing and just devestating their crops, especially just after seeding. Come up with a solution and you will have made friends for life, and a goose on the table to boot.

By the way an Amishman built and installed the shed for my parents generators. They have a better grasp than most would realize. Also, provided the handpump for the well. They were fascinated by the back-up solar water distiller.

-- (snowleopard6@webtv.net), July 01, 1999.

DiEter, my apologies slam was for Decker!

-- (snowleopard6@webtv.net), July 01, 1999.