Making a point

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

What does this post have to do with Y2K? Not a thing. I will probably get flamed for this post or it might even get deleted, and if this does get deleted it will confirm my belief that if you mention Jesus in a post anything goes. You have my word that this is the only post with this content that I will ever post. The necessity of faith in religious life and practice is something the "faithful" take for granted. The "Awakening of Faith2" is considered an essential step in Buddhism, and while Zen may be thought of as nonconformist by some, on this point there really can be no disagreement. After all, taking up a practice that leads towards "enlightenment," a state that cannot be known until experienced, implies a faith that such an experience really does exist. Yet faith, as understood in Buddhism, is a very simple thing. It is gentle, flexible, and does not depend upon belief systems. We can see examples of faith like this in operation all around us if we look. It finds expression in a positive and gentle attitude towards life, and is identical with the acceptance that lies at the base of everything positive we do. Faith as the basis of everyday actions? Many people would find that absurd, if not insulting. We want to believe that the choices we make are essentially rational ones. We tend to think that others, society in general, the whole world even, behaves that way. But when you think about it, the rational process comes a long way behind more gut level feelings as a basis for everyday behavior. How much reason is involved in a purchase of clothing, a record album, a set of dishes, even a house or car? When we feel hungry, how much of our desire is for calories, and how much is for Chinese food, or Mexican food? Economies and political structures rise and fall on intangibles like hope and confidence, or anxiety and fear of loss. Consider something even more basic. We drive on busy highways with nothing separating us from oncoming traffic but a line painted on the road. We will step out into an intersection with oncoming traffic in full view, with nothing to stop the cars but a red light on top of a pole. In these situations it is, I think, more a matter of trusting that the drivers of those cars hurtling towards us want, and will tend to act, in their own self interest. Without that trust it would be impossible for us to step off the curb, or to keep our minds on the business of controlling our own cars when driving. But underneath this trust is a deep intuition. In these situations we sense that other people, at their very core, think and feel much the same way we do. Accepting that is an act of faith. This simple kind of faith, forming the foundation of action in everyday life, is really the same faith that opens the door to the experience of complete unity with the entire universe. Like fish within the great ocean, we are at all times sustained and supported by this unity. We can never be separate from it, yet we are usually ignorant of it. Realizing this unity is the mystical experience of Zen. Awakening to simple, positive faith is a first step. While we may not be quite so rational as we would like to believe, faith is much more natural to us than we think. This very natural faith requires no strain, just a little acceptance. So what is this "honest doubt" that Tennyson connects with faith? To hold an honest doubt is to want to know, above all, "What is true?" It is not negative skepticism to ask "Is my understanding of this correct?" or, "Is this really what it represents itself to be?" An honest doubt, with a little humility, is necessary for the recognition that Truth is so immense, so vast, that our understanding of it can only be quite small. While humbling, this recognition leaves us open to endless possibilities. In comparison, a negative, skeptical doubt is confining because with it we lose the sense of wonder so essential for uncovering what is not yet known. With an honest doubt we wish to understand, but not to limit other people, or other ways of understanding and expressing the Truth. So often a "creed" carries the implication "This is the Truth. Therefore, all else must be false." Belief in such a creed can squeeze out the space for questioning "What is True? Do I really understand?" It seems to me that when belief becomes rigid, without gentleness and flexibility, without room for honest doubt, real faith ceases to exist.

With an honest doubt we can recognize the imperfections in things, weigh them against their merits, and understand the value of a teaching or a practice. Eventually an honest doubt, along with gentle faith, will lead to an understanding of the real perfection, which lies hidden in all things. Religious traditions, and Zen is no different, is made up of individuals with strengths and weaknesses, faults and foibles, and, of course, the potential for enlightenment. If faith permits us to see enlightenment manifesting around us, and in the actions of others, honest doubt permits us to accept human nature as it is. The miracle of transformation that Zen training works upon us requires both of these. Gently accepting our own limitations, we can at last come to know enlightenment at work within ourselves too. To understand honest doubt, though, there is something else to consider. An honest doubt is one that is directed inwardly as much, if not more so, than it is toward outward things. To hold an honest doubt is to first say to oneself "I could be wrong," and then, secondly, to admit that "They could be wrong, too."

When I was in training at the monastery, I noticed that sometimes people would arrive there with unbridled enthusiasm and intensity. But often that enthusiasm would dry up in a day or two, and off they would go in search of something else. I remember one man, a university student, who arrived at the gate in the afternoon and announced that he had given up everything. He had come to spend the rest of his life in meditation at the monastery. All this without ever having visited or even written to the monastery before. He was sent to join me digging holes in the garden, which was part of our effort to put in a new septic system. I dug my holes, but his mind was elsewhere. He wanted to talk about Zen. He wanted me to understand how deeply he felt about becoming a monk. He was gone before dinner. His was a rather extreme case, perhaps, for he had the drive and the desire for enlightenment, born of dissatisfaction with his life. But he did not have the patience, the sense of direction, and the caution that comes with an honest doubt. Those seeking a "quick fix" will soon be disappointed with the simple practice of training within everyday life, and so they quickly set off to search for something else.

"When people stop believing in God, the problem is not that thereafter they believe in nothing, it is that thereafter they will believe in anything." I once heard this quote by G.K. Chesterton, English essayist and novelist, and I was struck by the observation that people will despite protestations to the contrary, tend to hang their faith on some sort of belief system. On this subject, Chesterton wrote:

-- ZenMaster (zen64@usa.net), June 23, 1999

Answers

tao student

simplicity, sincerity, serenity

Worked for Lao Tzu.

Always work on your roots and you will grow strong in time.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), June 23, 1999.


y2k. Big Zen final exam.

Formatting. Late night. Eyes tired.

Delete us now.

Please.

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), June 23, 1999.


Cultivate patience.

The secret of life is to do the next thing.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), June 23, 1999.


Hazards to group collective thought? Perhaps even this group that I participate within IMO.

"I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned,unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized;nor should any organization be formed to lead or coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead,crystallized; and it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed upon by others. this is what everyone in the world is trying to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momemtarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley. If you would attain the mountain-top you must pass the valley, climb the steps, unafraid of the dangerous precipices. You must climb towards the Truth, it cannot be"stepped down" or organized for you. Interest in ideas is mainly sustained by organizations, but organizations only awaken interest from without. Interest, which is not born out of love for Truth of its own sake, but aroused by an organization, is of no value. The organization becomes a framework into which its members can conveniently fit. They no longer strive after Truth or the mountain-top, but rather carve for themselves a convenient niche in which they put themselves, or let the organization place them, and consider that the organization will thereby lead them to Truth." J. Krishnamurti Aug.2,1929

-- Barb (awaltrip@telepath.com), June 23, 1999.


IMHO=JESUS said i-am the=truth,if he was who he said he was.son\of=GOD who was from=eternity.who is the=word=become-flesh.who said he would be crucified & rise-again.[proven]my ?? what other-religion has a RISEN-right now=alive GOD.??

-- al-d. (CATT@ZIANET.COM), June 23, 1999.


al-d

Do you really suggest that religions can be "rated" as to who's God is freshest ?

Yours is real and alive now ? Well theres a bonus.

Does this mean that youre of the opinion that Hindus and Muslims believe their God to be dead ? Get real. All deific beliefs are hinged on the theory that God is current and actual. Try hunting for information on any current religion that boasts a deceased deity.

If you find one, let me know.

-- W0lv3r1n3 (W0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), June 23, 1999.


al-d........

Feel free to write whatever you like.....

However, are you intentionally trying to be an asshole with your idiotic and stupid puntuation nonsense. How can we be expected to take you seriously when you intersperse equals signs, apostrophes, commas, capital letters etc. anywhere you bloody well feel like it and rarely in the right places. Don't come crying your poor uneducated me crap either. If that were the truth, you would simply leave out the punctuation, make the odd spelling mistake and no one would really care.

However, it is clear that you are deliberately trying to use the style of a complete idiot in order to accomplish God knows what.

If you're trying for the 'cute factor', you have missed the boat. I sincerely think that you are trying to be a jerk. That way people don't expect you to make any intelligent statements or display any common sense or wit. Shoot, even Homer Simpson has some class!

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), June 23, 1999.


From Krishnamurti to al-d in .2 sec. My brain just left skid marks.

("This is your brain on..." on what, al? They warned you about the orange sunshine, didn't they? But you took it anyway, bad boy...)

You can't delete it after Krishnamurti's in, mods. Maybe the whole thread doesn't go in "Autobiography of a Forum," but you definitely made me copy this one into my private archive, Barb.

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), June 24, 1999.


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