i,m seeing alot of posts'concerning looters.what looter want,s to wade into a pack of riled up dogs?? i,ve got pitbull/llhasa crosses' they hate-strangers. and fear nothing. just a suggestion.

-- al-d. (catt@zianet.com), June 18, 1999

Answers

BANG!!BANG!!yum!!!dogmeat!!!!I wonder what that homeowner's got that was worth protecting? got buckshot??

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 18, 1999.

true they can be shooting my dogs'but while they,re focused on them'i got time to focus on the looter.at least with my pack,, i won,t have to stay up all night'pulling guard-duty.

-- al-d. (catt@zianet.com), June 18, 1999.

Just ordered 3500 rds of .223 ammo for my brand new Mini-14. Will get another mini and 2 12-ga pistol-grip shotguns (+1000 shells) this weekend.

Oh, BTW, 1000 rds of that .223 ammo are "light armor-piercing" tungsten-core FMJ, "just in case". I will not tolerate looting, government-sanctioned or otherwise...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 18, 1999.

I have two rottwielers (sp?) 150 and 120 Lbs each. I know if any person is near my place 24/7. If you don't have dogs you might not know how on top of things they are. Yes Someone could shoot my dogs, but chances are that I will have them in my sights before they have my dogs in there sights. If Someone Kills my dogs then I can assume they are going to kill me to. Forget about Y2K for a moment. I don't have to lock the doors to my house now because of the dogs. I don't have to worry about my wife when I'm out because of the dogs. I don't worry about robbers because of the dogs. If it gets cold at night I've got the dogs to keep us warm (ever heard of a three dog night?). And the best thing of all I've got two great friends around my house. (dogs are better than alot of people).

Come by some time and watch my two dogs playing with there tractor tire in front of my house, It's realy something to see.

Got Dog Chow?

-- Greenthumb G.I. (greenthumb@I.G.I.), June 18, 1999.

let,s not forget 'big dogs can pull a wagon''help haul things.carry supplies. and if y2k is a 10--dogs kill vermin.>rat-terrier.

-- al-d. (catt@zianet.com), June 18, 1999.

I am glad to see a post about dogs. I'm not going to discuss mine for various reasons, but I would like to discuss preparing for their care. Beyond laying up kibble and canned food (I'm figuring that mine will bring back a bear, a person, or whatever --if they're hungry enough), are you getting them vaccinated for the various potential diseases, laying up heart worm pills, tick and flea medicine, etc., and changing them over to a more feasible diet (for example, if they are on a B.A.R.F. diet.). Are you training your dogs not to drink water wherever they find it or not to accept food from a stranger? Are you training them not to bark so as not to give away your position?

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), June 18, 1999.

Right on people! My 2 dogs are much more sensitive than any electronic alarm, heck we even know when a leaf blows through the yard, thanks to them. And un like a conventional alarm system, they never break down or require a battery back-up. If things get bad I can take them across the street, shoot some geeses, and the dogs will jump in the pond to retreive the fresh-shot dinner.

-- rick (I'mset@home.house), June 18, 1999.

Read on another BBS that when Martial Law is declared and the troops move into the cities, they will be ordered to shoot on sight, any dogs they encounter. Seems they expect that when shortages develope, millions of dogs will be abandoned and revert to pack behavior and become very dangerous. There have been a couple of instances recently in which packs of domestic dogs have killed and eaten someone; one in Italy, the other in the US midwest.

-- Ralph Kramden (OrBusman@webtv.net), June 18, 1999.

i,d rather take my chances with hungry dogs[give-em a milkbone] than with no-conscience-human dogs.dogs don,t-plot.

-- al-d. (catt@zianet.com), June 18, 1999.

Al-D,

That is a good posting topic. And you are right about being able to get some sleep while the dogs stand guard duty. You know, once I start to get used to your way of thinking and posting, I kind of get a kick out of it. I wouldn't mind having you around to run some ideas by, since I sense that you cut through the fancy plans and get down to what actually works. Life has been too good to me. I will have to relearn the ways of the trenches, so to speak, in case we get into any of that sort of madness.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), June 18, 1999.

Stan,

ROFLOL! I love the "B.A.R.F. diet"! BTW, Hardlerliner's culinary repetoire, as you might expect, includes many south-of-the-border dishes and there's no danger of anyone around here finding themselves on the B.A.R.F. diet, even in "ordinary" times. Our dogs just consider us humans as funny looking dogs and accept us readily as members of the pack. They may be "our dogs", but we are just as certainly "their humans". Harderliner frequently remarks on their amazing cultural ability to train humans to open doors for them, bring them food and drink, etc. It is most frequently voiced as, "Hey! Just who the hell's really running things around here?"

Your suggestions regarding preparation for their future are excellent ones. In that vein, let me recommend Drs. Foster & Smith, Inc. They are a pet and veterinary mail-order supply house that will provide you with everything from clothing (including Halloween costumes) to vaccines for your pet. We have done business with them for a number of years now, and have always been totally satisfied with every aspect of the relationship. Their address is 2253 Air Park Road, P.O. Box 100, Rhinelander, Wisconsin 54501. They have a 24/7 order line which is: (800)826-7206. They will be happy to send you their catalog and I recommend them to one and all, in anticipation of Y2K or in simply "ordinary" times. To the best of my knowledge, they do not yet have a website.

The "training" of dogs, for whatever purpose, is as Harderliner frequently notes, a matter of perspective. Mine is that all that is usually required is to communicate to the dog what you wish him to do. Usually that's all it takes with my "pack". In any case, my experience has been that the principal ingredient in any method is time, so if you're going to do it, youd best get started.

For fleas, ticks, and many other insectivos, let me strongly recommend two common substances: elemental sulfur and diatomaceous earth. Both are very inexpensive in bulk and both are extremely effective. The sulfur that you dust your roses with is OK, but it's a lot cheaper in bulk if you can find a source (I can't help you here, because I don't need one. My water contains 2 ppm, by analysis, elemental sulfur and none of us are much bothered by fleas or ticks). The same food-grade diatomaceous earth that you may use to keep bugs out of your stored grains will annihilate a flea population if you'll spread it around. The beauty of these two substances is that they are not poisonous to man nor beast. If your "rug-rat" eats some of it, the DE will not hurt him at all and even the sulfur will only act as a laxative, but he'd have to get a lot of it to even notice.

As to the value of dogs, I'll tell you all quite honestly that I would give up any or all of my other preparations before I'd part with the dogs. It is for good reason that dogs have shared man's fire and food for over 40,000 years now.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), June 18, 1999.

There was a story of of connecticut many years ago about a German Shephard protecting his master ( an elderly woman ) when an intuder broke in. The would be assailant was attacked savagley by the dog when he jumped in through a window. The assailant was carrying two implements of destruction, a knife and a thirty eight special. He managed to plunge the knife fully into the dog's abdomen up to the hilt and then slice forward. The dog was only enraged and continued to attack the man. After a moment or so the assailant then drew the gun and fired a round straight through the dog's chest. You want to guess who finally ended up retreating? Thats right the assailant turned and jumped back out the window when it was clear the dog wasn't going to give up.

That is a true story, and it goes to show you just how surprised your going to be if you think a round of buckshot is going to drop an angry pit bull or something equivilant. I've had dogs all my life and take it from me, there is nothing scarrier that a mad dog. I've even seen two small dogs fight like samurai warriors over a tiny steak bone. I hope no one tries to break into my place, I've got seven dogs altogether... hee hee hee.

-- (pack@master.com), June 18, 1999.

Al-d,

I thought you were not posting here anymore. What gives? Don't say you are'nt if you are. IDIOT

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), June 18, 1999.

Our plan includes 1-M & 1F small cross breed dogs who can propigate when necessary. As noted above, there are NO electronic systems as sensitive as the dumbest dogs (I know, for we have one of the dumbest on earth).

All I really want is for the pooch to tell me someone's aroung and then I can go out and "greet" the person(s).

Course the are also the two Great Pyrenees (sp?) to guard the heard of goats. I have on good report (by several professional goat herders) that NO animal (at least in the lower 48) will survive an attack on a herd which is guarded by two of these beautiful animals.

In the CYA catagory there are also geese and guineas, but then this is a dog of a thread and I certainly wouldn't want to digress.

-Greybear

-- Got sulphur?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), June 18, 1999.

Hardliner and/or Greybear,

What effect does sulphur have on ticks? Does it deter them, kill them, or just cause them to drop off the dog? In the event of a tick problem in the dog's outside grounds, can it be used on native flora as a tick deterrent? If not, any non-toxic ways to rid the grounds of ticks?

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), June 18, 1999.

To my limited knowledge the only way to COMPLETELY gid rid of ticks and chiggers was demonstreated by Gen. Sherman in Georgia during the recent unplesantness.

Otherwise dusting with sulfer helps and is eventually good for the soil (it is SLOW to break down). You can dust your pant legs but the yellow stuff is not very fashionable. Or you can scratch and go for the tweezers.

-Greybear

-- Got a Magnifying glass?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), June 18, 1999.

Thanks, Greybear. The Scorched Earth solution may be a bit drastic, but it is tempting...major tick infestation this year, and with 3 canine companions, it's a constant vigil.

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), June 18, 1999.

I just got the dog vaccinated for rabies. Asked about the two-year vaccine and was told this did not exist. (?) Can vaccines be stored in a relatively cool cellar? And for how long?

-- Helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), June 18, 1999.

This is a great post! We have owned dogs for 20 years, and I have watched when a dog who seemed perfectly harmless and friendly, turn into a cross between wolverine/grizzly when it thought one of us were threatened. Awesome. We have four dogs, plan on one or two more. Like you Greybear, two small dogs and two large. One of the peewee's is getting old now, but was quite the vermin patroller in her youth (and she is part terrier). We also have a cat who is a #1 Mouser. I would not want to be a stranger poking around with our Large Monster Dog lurking in the dark watching. He is Bouvier cross, black, anad comes out of the dark shadows practically unseen until he is on top of you. We are considering Anatolian Shepherd, Mastiff, Pyrenees, and NEwfoundland. Other large dog is half Pyrenees/half bloodhound. Um..what is B.A.R.F.? Sounds delightful. I've read about using sulphur and diatomaceous earth on other forums and plan to acquire both soon. Also, Stan, do you recommend book/video on the extensive training you are describing?

-- Mumsie (Lotsakids@home.com), June 18, 1999.

Mumsie,

I may be wrong, but I think B.A.R.F. stands for Bones and Raw Food. Most people who talk about B.A.R.F., talk about Vita-Mixing veggies, giving their dog a bone, etc. I feed my toothful Gabby... Solid Gold Hundenflocken kibble mixed with a quarter pound of hamburger, one raw egg yolk, Solid Gold Sea Meal, Glucosamine, and chewable Vitamin C. If Y2K is BITR, I hope to have Gabby compete in the world show next year in Rome(?)-- if Roma is still on the map of civilized cities in 2000.

Gabby (short for Gabrielle) is about 13 weeks now and weighs in about 40 or so pounds. I'm still working on getting her to not nip and claw playfully with me; she tore up my bottom lip a few weeks ago and drew blood (my hand) again just yesterday. This with her puppy teeth. I'm working with several trainers (friendly trainers for basic things, shutzhund for honing the prey drive, and another for showing). Raphy (her mate, is yet to be born) is due in fall-- it's a second try now.

One of the things that is on the list is getting her not to take food from strangers, not to drink water that we don't give her, etc. I don't allow any stranger to give her food (even to entice her to be petted) nor do I allow her to drink water from a puddle, etc. I am strict about this and will lay her down right there. I also trick her; leave pans outside to collect rain and watch her carefully. The key is tricking her into doing things and following swiftly with punishment.

Her pictures are at http://www.5beans.com/gabby.htm.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), June 18, 1999.

RUOK,

Sulfur most definitely deters and repels ticks. It may kill them as well, but I don't really know. It also works well on chiggers. Let me share with you a few actual (but anonymous) scenes from my past.

Scene One - The Early Days: Deep in the North Carolina swamp, in a squad bay belonging to the Sixth Marines, forty or so young Marines, just returned from a field problem, freshly showered and naked save for rubber shower clogs mill about, each holding a small bottle of brown nail polish known as "Em-Nu" that was usually used to refinish uniform emblems. The conversation is everything from soup to nuts, punctuated with the most blasphemous and foul oaths ever heard ashore, and marked by bizarre requests such as, "Oh, man! I think I've got one right next to my asshole! I'm buyin' for anyone who'll check. . .", and, "Ahhhhh! I can't believe that feels so f***in' good!, Thanks, Bub; I'm buyin' yours tonight!" "HEY! WHO'S GOT A BUTT LIT? I FOUND A DAMN TICK AND IT'S ON MY NUTS!" Etc., etc. The scene takes on a more surreal quality as the assembled assume the appearance of men with large brown measles as the chigger sites are located and sealed off on each man's flesh. As the task is completed, out come the Playboys and Hustlers and a few towels as the air is whipped into a frenzy in a joint effort to dry the spots. Soon, some begin to dress in "civvies" and leave. Liberty call has sounded. The itch and scratch continues for days.

Scene Two - On Liberty Some Months Later: The bedroom is non-descript. It could be in a trailer somewhere aboard the base, in one of the houses of Jacksonville, or even a cheap motel. A young lady mumbles sleepily and rolls over in the bed. A young Marine dresses in preparation for his return to the base. Just before he leaves, he sorts through the young lady's clothing which is still strewn about the floor. He finds a pair of those new-fangled "panties" called "panty hose". As he wads them up and stuffs them into the hip pocket of his jeans, he becomes aware that the young lady is awake and watching him in disbelief. "What the hell do you think you're doin'?", she yells. "Hey! Where the f*** do you think you're goin' with those? Get back here you g**damned f***in' Jarhead! I paid thirty nine cents for those! They ain't no g**damned f***in' trophy!" The young Marine is gone.

Scene Three - The Same Squadbay Some Months Later: "Oh-dark-hundred". The same group of young Marines are preparing to "go to the field". Again, an air of unreality permeates the scene. Some of the young men are wearing panty hose! Some wear it over their own underwear, some wear it next to their skin. Some wear boxer shorts and some wear briefs. Others beat each other with bags made from the feet of yet more panty hose that they have filled with powdered sulfur. Each impact produces a small puff of yellow dust and soon the air is heavy with the stuff. The conversation is everything from soup to nuts, punctuated with the most blasphemous and foul oaths ever heard ashore, but no one complains about the sulfur or even remarks about the panty hose. By the time the Gunny pokes his head in and bellows, "Move out!", everyone is dressed and outfitted. No one would ever suspect what lies under the stiffly starched utilities of the young men of the Sixth Marines.

Scene Four - The Same Squadbay After the Field Problem is Over: The same group of young Marines are preparing to go on liberty. Strung between the racks are cords made of "tie-ties" and covered with damp but drying panty hose. The conversation is everything from soup to nuts, punctuated with the most blasphemous and foul oaths ever heard ashore, and is sprinkled with remarks such as, "Shit! How do women stand them f***in' things everyday?", and, "G**damn! Those M***** F***ers are hotter than Hell!" Freshly showered, they appear in various stages of dress but several are naked but for the shower clogs and "Em-Nu". Others rib them and taunt, "When are you guys gonna find some women?"

Now lest you all think that Marines are fond of cross-dressing in addition to being insane, you need to understand that the nylon mesh of panty hose is small enough that chiggers cannot get through. Neither can ticks. Sulfur works almost as well.

As for your problem with area coverage, yes, you can dust plants, dogs, people, etc. with sulfur, but it doesn't stick so well. Neither does sulfur dissolve in water very well, but you can make a suspension of sulfur dust in water that you can then spray over an area. I've had very limited success with this technique. First of all, you must constantly agitate the liquid to keep the sulfur from settling to the bottom. Second, unless the orifice that you spray through is fairly large, it clogs rapidly. If it's too large, you don't get much of a spray. Third, whatever you spray tends to lose the sulfur as soon as the water evaporates. The sulfur does stick quite well to sweaty flesh and hangs about in dog fur for quite a while. I am aware that Texas A&M has done some research on the subject of area treatment for ticks, but I have never heard of much success with anything save commercial pesticides.

FWIW. . .

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), June 18, 1999.

Wow. I thought the pantyhose/consort segment was going to describe how to deal with a separate type of insect.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), June 18, 1999.

Stan,

I thought you meant Beans And Rice Free. Perhaps that's why I found it humorus. . .

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), June 18, 1999.

Lisa,

Were you by chance referring to Phthirus pubis?

If so, I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't like sulfur either, but I do know that they don't bother dogs. The spacing of the hair follicles is critical to their survival and dog fur simply doesn't have the dimensions that they need to survive and prosper.

As for human infestation, I have it on some authority (actually a rather inebriated sailor) that the most effective method is to shave half of the affected area and set the remaining half alight. The vermin are then stabbed with an ice pick as they flee the flames. . .

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), June 18, 1999.

Hardliner: ouch..

To get back on topic, I am having a helluva time picturing al-d's cross of Bulldog X Lhasa Apso.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), June 18, 1999.

Foster & Smith: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@tymewyse.com), June 18, 1999.

Hardliner,

Thank you for the detailed (and graphic) account of the uses of sulphur as tick deterrent/repellent...LMAO! If it would keep the dogs from bringing the little blood-sucking blighters into the house, that would be a help...wonder how the dogs would like pantyhose.

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), June 18, 1999.

Helen -

There is a 3-year rabies vaccine approved for use and I have even heard that the one-year and three-year vaccines are actually the same product. It is just up to each county or state as to how long they will accept them for. They really need to be refrigerated. As far as fleas and ticks, nothing works better than Frontline. You can buy it in the spray can from your vet and it's not too expensive. I think I found one can lasts five large dogs about 3 months.

I agree that dogs are the best to have around. I have five and I at least won't be surprised by anything. I too am having trouble imagining the pit/lhasa mixes!

-- dakota (none@thistime.com), June 18, 1999.

Dakota, thanks!

-- Helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), June 19, 1999.

Hardliner,

I hate to break the news to you but the Sailot lied.

The most superior method for ridding oneself of the rather bothersome visiotrs is to acquire a rather large mirror. Place same on floor.

One should then bare the posterior regions ans squat over said mirror. The little beasties will all think it's a new victim and jump off.

-Greybear

-- Got Raid?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), June 19, 1999.

my llhasa/p.bull>pinch of shnauzers' look like hairy T.-REX seriously they,re white-built like a tank'big heads awesome jaws.but one thing i can,t figure>they try to talk. sounds like >AH BAROO,OO,OO.theres mama>punka-sue'rocky;mona da-grona & kong.THERE PUPS ALL GROWL AT US AT AGE 4-WEEKS. i got a feelin i,m gonna get flamed-right?//

-- al-d. (catt@zianet.com), June 19, 1999.

Greybear,

I'm not surprised about the sailor, some of them will tell a gullible young Marine anything. . . Your method certainly sounds more comfortable!

As for the Raid, Leathernecks are never without some. It's our answer to Right Guard; a quick shot in the 'pits before liberty and you can spend the night anywhere or crawl home through anything without fear of infestation!

ps - I got your E, and will reply asap. Look for it w/in 96 hours.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), June 19, 1999.

al-d,

As the "parent" of a full size GSD/Toy Poodle cross (and the Poodle was the dam!), I know better than to say it can't happen.

Which was the sire/dam and how big are the offspring?

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), June 19, 1999.

Hardliner, The anecdote from the sailor about vermin was one that I heard in the ER from a doc who worked the weekend night shift. Guess it's made the rounds! I had forgotten it was a good one.

-- Barb (awaltrip@telepath.com), June 19, 1999.