I am overwhelmed by a feeling of despair. today I tried once again to talk to a close family member about the serious problems we could face in 6 months. I showed her some things that I had copied off including the latest from Van Nuys sewage problems-I could tell that she was totally once again that she was dwgi. My family, including my parents are preparing and have been for the last year. But we dont have enough to take care of her and her family for a long period of time. I have been torn between several emotions concerning her family. Has anyone faced this with any family? Would appreciate your experience if you care to share them.

Thanks, Sgt.Schultz

-- SgtSchultz (SgtHansSchultz@Stalag13.com), June 17, 1999

Answers

Many have faced your situation. All I can say is "get used to it".

(not trying to be flip here, it's just the way it is...)

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 17, 1999.

One thing you might do is give a copy of the American Red Cross Y2K pamphlet "Y2K - What Yould Should Know" to your relative. I came across a copy of it at one of the "Community Conversations" that was in my state today.

Even if your relative doesn't "get it" right away, they might eventually start preparing a few weeks or a month or two before they might have otherwise.

-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), June 17, 1999.

What is the weak link in the, "But we dont have enough to take care of her and her family for a long period of time." Heated shelter? Food? Water? Maybe somebody can come up with a solution if you defined the problem more explicitly?

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 17, 1999.

Hope that it's not as bad as you fear. Duh, I mean, hope that they will survive without suffering any real discomfort.

Look at this way. How would you feel if you hadn't warned them and things got severely ugly? At least you tried as hard as you could.

Noah didn't force anyone in the ark at gunpoint. Nor did he toss life presevers to those who changed their minds too late.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), June 17, 1999.

Food and water is the main problem. Or should I say the lack there of it.

-- SgtSchultz (SgtHansSchultz@Stalag13.com), June 17, 1999.

Sgt.,

Dog Gone is Right On!! You alone live with yourself between your ears, and, you did what you can that's all you can do! Now, go find something worthwhile to do so you don't despair. Keep movin' on. Remember "their is nothing more uncommon than common sense!"

Also, there is NO downside to preparing, except an extra room that gets turned into storage, and if nothing happens, you dont have to shop for a while. Not a bad trade off is it?

-- rob (rgt350@aol.com), June 17, 1999.

There is only so much that you can do. But here is an idea: for each member of siblings family and from each of your GI family think birthday, Early Christmas, special events Y2k prep presents. You will have done all that you can

-- Ruth the4 Moab (aapm@aapainmanage.org), June 17, 1999.

Sgt., move forward and get prepared. It's your responsibility to take care of your wife and family. If tough times come and you aren't prepared, they will ask why you did nothing -- why you didn't take care of them.

They will get it sooner or later. You can't force it on them.

Leave copies of articles for them to read. Don't ask them to read the articles. Just leave them out and available.

-- Walt (longyear@shentel.net), June 17, 1999.

None of my relatives outside of my wife and son get it. I've persuaded my wife's sister. My brother still wants a family reunion cruise over Rollover. Okay, I'm the nut who's spoiling it.

But dammit, I'm not going to mail them dehydrated food packages, or batteries, or whatever! They'd laugh at best, throw them away at worst. I tried.

If I'm wrong, which I pray, then I can be the butt of jokes next year. If I'm right, well, friends and relatives don't always outlive you...

You can't make somebody a GI. No more than you can make them a Buddhist or a Republican. It's just not something you talk them into. They have to reach the conclusion by themselves.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), June 17, 1999.

Find something thats close to home..THEIR HOME. I made to DWGIs into possible, or at least "thinking" of getting it today. I did this by giving them each a copy of the letter that I had received from the city near us in response to my letter to them asking y2k questions. The response from the city was not very encouraging, however, I must say it was honest. Scroll down to the thread OCALA, FLORIDA Y2K STATUS of yesterday. If you can give them something like that, it will help. YOU ARE NOT THE EXPERT!! How can you be? You are just the brother. They need to hear it from someone in the trenches but someone that is close enuff to them. Like the mayor or the county commissioners. It worked for me! While they still had the stunned looks on their faces from reading the letter, I gave each of them a copy of the "60 Minutes" transcription and sent them on their way. Tonight one of them called and asked where we bought our genset.

This has been a week, hasn't it? We are starting down the steep side of the slope, I think and it will start moving fast.

Got your last minute list where you can grab it and run for the store?

Taz

-- Taz (Tassie @aol.com), June 17, 1999.

I think of the children, nieces and nephews and twist a gut. I've cried for months about it. My sister won't speak about it to me...I've done everything I know how to for the past year. Nothing left to do. We live several states away, she's on her own, but just in case....we're ready to take them anyway. If they don't show up in time, we WILL have neighbors around us who WILL need help, and we WILL need them as well.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 17, 1999.

I don't think early any-excuse "presents" of boxes of life-saving supplies is a bad idea at all. My mother, 1500 miles away. is a DWGI far as I can tell - no response. My sis & I are both building "Care" packages for her for her 80th birthday soon. Battery lantern, radio, canned heat (Sterno), food, space blanket, heavy socks, caps, long-johns, etc. "just in case you fall & break something & can't get to the store." We tell her to store water & buy lots of soup for the same reason - if she suspected any other (especially from me, the family wacko), she'd refuse to do a thing. Same thing being prepared for my son's little kids far away - big "Swiss Colony" type goodies set, but easy-to-prepare emergency type goodies with extra kidstuff like chocolate raisons & peanut butter; I'll add warm clothes & knit face masks to theirs & send well before Christmas with a "Do Not Open". If we love them, we have to do it for them, to whatever extent possible. This isn't enough but it helps.

Scat

-- Scat (sgcatique@webtv.net), June 17, 1999.

...kind of frightening how Y2K has taken on a religious overtone with so many of you Doomers. You are so convinced of your self rightous moral superiority, that you cannot understand why others see you for the kooks that you are. I know you want the world to end, but wishing for something does not always make it so...

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), June 17, 1999.

Well as far as food goes, have you looked closely at http://home.earthlink.net/~kenseger/surv/MORMAN4.TXT and http://home.earthlink.net/~kenseger/surv/wheat.txt and http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/ for ideas yet? Check out your local feed stores. Shipping will be prohibitive on grain costs for small (less than 1,000#) shipments. If Y2K is a BITR (we all can hope), save you receipts and donate it to a local food pantry for a deduction.

On water, purification http://home.earthlink.net/~kenseger/surv/bleach.txt is cheap. What is your location? Where is the closest surface water?

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 17, 1999.

Excuse me Y2K Pro can you read? The thread said a question for Gi's not a question for complete assholes. I find polly's such as Hoffmiester(sp) and Anita interesting to read because they bring something to the table. You on the other hand bring nothing but crap, you have no point to be made, you attack the messenger and not the message. I am not a religious person so your statement about religion is totally off the mark.

-- SgtSchultz (SgtHansSchultz@Stalag13.com), June 17, 1999.

In fact dip-stick you are religious - you are a BELIEVER in the cult of Doom. What you cannot understand is why we are not ALL believers. Funny, all proselytizers have the same problem...

"On January 1, 1999 they will experience many more, and it will be much more difficult to sweep them under the rug. On April 1, 1999 we will all watch anxiously as the governments of Japan and Canada, as well as the state of New York, begin their 1999-2000 fiscal year; at that moment, the speculation about Y2K will end, and we will have tangible evidence of whether governmental computer systems work or not."-- Ed Yourdon

"So, of course I want to see y2k bring down the system, all over the world. I have hoped for this all of my adult life." -- Gary North

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), June 17, 1999.

Great post Y2K Pro. You win the prize for repeating the same post from EY and GN more then anyone else has repeated any other post. If you had something other then that to offer you might find a little more respect from this forum. I don't find you to be an asshole because you are a polly, but you remind me of a the kid that sat behind you in school, flicking your ears while the teacher wasnt looking. In honor of your presence I will repeat myself, you have nothing to offer this forum other then the 2 post from Ey and GN that you keep repeating. Have another donut.

-- SgtSchultz (SgtHansSchultz@Stalag13.com), June 17, 1999.

Dear Y2K Pro, can you give me absolute assurance and a guarantee that in the city of Omaha, NE the electricity, natural gas, and water will continue to run during Y2K? If they do not, my elderly parents are at extreme risk. I have no way of estimating the odds of this happening, apparently you do? Apparently the Naval War College thinks that utility interuptions are possible. I do know what the health risks are for them. If you can not give that assurance and put your money where your mouth is, I suggest you stop accusing people of holding opinions that they do not hold. I do not expect any intellectual honesty from you, but I'd love to be surprised. Prove me and the Naval War College wrong, if you would please. I'ld much rather be playing music and buying CDs than planing emergency bedding requirements and buying stovepipe.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 17, 1999.

Lot of slow learners here, it seems. All the argumentation and name- calling in the world will never change these firmly held opinions.

Why not simply let the other guy be wrong? We do this routinely in most other situations.

Unless his actions impact me or my family directly, the other guy's devotion to his point of view is fine with me. I have never thought my assignment was to persuade everybody else to think what I think.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), June 17, 1999.

Y2K pro is a little boy whose mother does't know what he is doing in his room all night on his puter.He has no friends to talk to only in the chat rooms and here on this form.That is why we keep hearing from him.Don't be too hard on him he needs love and attention.He is trying to rebel and this is the only way he can because the kids in school will not have any thing to do with him.Hope he turns out ok.there are a lot of poor kids out there like him

-- reggie (reggie@aol.com), June 18, 1999.

I have a lot of empathy for you situation, Sgt. I too have warned extended family with similar results. I agonize about my little neices and nephews in particular. Given the means, I believe it is morally incumbant on every Y2K contingency planner to make preparations for as many neighbors as possible. Perhaps your loved ones are in my neck of the woods, perhaps mine in yours. That said, I believe careful planning can see us through. Again, given the means, I believe private communication (CB, Ham, etc.) is essential, gasoline, and money. In my case I have given a trusted nephew treated gas and money to get family out of the range of the city as well as the means to bring them to me. I believe this is a time for compassion as well as humor. If Y2K turns out to be nothing, I'm going to join every polly and laugh at myself as I pick the egg from my face. If things turn ugly, every unprepared polly gets my helping hand free of attitude. Hope this helps.

-- beals (beals@islandnet.com), June 18, 1999.

I live with husband (51); sons (24, 22, 15); potential daughter-in-law (20); and, grandbaby (8 mos.) In spite of ridicule from all (except baby) I have made preparations for them for Y2K. I have done tremendous amounts of research...mainly to prove myself wrong...and have only become more convinced that preparations are necessary.

My sister, brother, and mother live on the other coast. I have been calling them since January 1999 to tell of the news I've found. My sister is mad because she might have to buy water; my brother is going to take out $100-$200 for a family of 5 on Dec. 31st; and, my dear mom thinks peanuts and Pepsi in the trunk of her car will suffice.

My brother-in-law made the mistake of trying to "comfort" me by sending me the web page that the fed gov hosts--I think it was answers to concerns or common questions about Y2K. That became the answer to my problem. I was able to send him direct proof (news articles, etc.), point-by-point that showed that some of the gov answers were incomplete or downright misleading. I found that that made Y2K (which is rather vague and overwhelming) more concrete for me to relate to them. Find out specifically what your relatives don't understand and try to battle the unknown with facts and info. The research for facts and info are part of my ongoing personal campaign to inform myself anyway.

I suggest you start with a list of what will happen if the "bug" is not fixed (email me for a good one) and then try to research what has been done to remedy the problem in the different areas...make it personal for your relatives...for instance, if they live near a nuclear plant, small to medium-sized chemical plant, etc. Make a chart and make it fast. Maybe the relatives could update it as time goes by.

I haven't heard from my family after the last volley of web pages...hoping this approach will work.

Best of luck and be just as hard-headed in your efforts as they are in theirs...Gamma (short for grandmother)

-- Gamma Rays (Viks2000@aol.com), June 18, 1999.

It is tough isn't it? Here is what I do, right or wrong. Explain and say "look your an adult so think about it." If you do nothing, fine my hands are washed; I warned you. Now if you get into a situation where you need my help I will not help you period. Tough? you bet, and I repeat often so that if a "GI" does happen then I can help prep. I have a fallback, I make them serve me if it suits me. Yeah it's family; but my kids are first and that's that.

-- Will (sibola@hotmail.com), June 18, 1999.

"Dear Y2K Pro, can you give me absolute assurance and a guarantee that in the city of Omaha, NE the electricity, natural gas, and water will continue to run during Y2K?"

Of course not. That's because no one can "guarantee" that these utilities will continue to run tomorrow. However, given their track record, I would say it was very likely they will operate tomorrow, wouldn't you?

Given the remediation and testing that utilities have done, to suggest a likelyhood that they will not operate at the date change is, well, flawed thinking.

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), June 18, 1999.

Wait a minute. Maybe this woman just took the vow of silence mentioned in another post. Maybe she already HAS 200 tons of rice & beans stashed away, & just doesn't want anyone to know about it.

Doomers LIE. They lie about y2k. This has been established repeatedly on this board. Doomers LIE. Remember?

-- stop (worrying@about.them), June 18, 1999.

You don't say if you love her. If you love her you will find a way to care for her and her family. This is ridiculus. Your home isn't big enough to care for other folks. Of course it is! You don't have enough food and water. Bull! For loved ones you make whatever sacrifices you need to make. Stop the whinning and just do it. Whatever happened to sharing? Why have all you doomers become so selfish. I don't have much but what I have I will share with whomever comes to my door.

-- All we (need@is.love), June 18, 1999.

"Whatever happened to sharing? Why have all you doomers become so selfish. I don't have much but what I have I will share with whomever comes to my door. "

Yeah, I probably will too. And I'll probably be dead a year from now.

We're not talking 2 or 3 people, we're talking about hundreds of hungry folks, & their kids, & their elderly parents.

Hundreds, heck - make that thousands. How many people live within a 30 minute walk from your house? Do you think they won't make the trek if they suspect that you have food? Do you think they won't take ALL of your food, & all of your supplies, & leave you to starve?

Having prepared, & being a generous person, the question is: Are you ready to die of hunger in the middle of winter?

-- depressing (to@think.about), June 18, 1999.

Do you know how long the human body can survive without food? A very long time. I've been on two week fasts and lived to tell about it. Food won't become immediately scare on 1/1/00. It will take a few months before there's no food left anywhere on the planet. Aside from the fact that I can't envision this doomsday scenario, people won't be traveling to my house. They will be traveling to the warmer climates (that's south if you're in the Northern Hemisphere) where there are open fields of crops, if the distribution system breaks down as you doomers believe. Also some people know how to shoot and clean deer and elk and know how to fish. People don't forget how to live just because some computers don't know what century we're in. Get a grip on reality, depressing.

-- All we (need@is.love), June 18, 1999.

Y2k Pro - You belong to a religion whose belief is that technology can't fail. Any attempts to show you failures of technology can not shake your beliefs.

-- at work (abcdef@aol.com), June 18, 1999.

Sgt S.,

About five months into my y2k-education, I was at the bookstore and saw Michael Hyatt's book on display. Bought it, read it in one night and realized that it was the perfect tool to introduce my parents to this issue. Why?

(1) it isn't me telling them, it's a third party.

(2) it is very well written, easy to understand and definitely gets the point across succinctly.

(3) all important topics are discussed sufficiently enough to read in a few hours...wets the appetite for more knowledge. (understandably, for me it was rudimentary :)

Anyway, buy as much as you can and accept that you will have family members immediate and not that will be on your doorstep! God love 'em!

-- I'm (with@titude.now), June 18, 1999.

The 60 Minutes transcript worked for my DGI wife.

I can't wait to show her the 55 gallon barrel I bought today so that we can collect rain water.

I am making copies to give to the rest of my family tonight. Good Luck!

-- nothere nothere (notherethere@hotmail.com), June 18, 1999.

Y2K Pro - Congrats. You win the nit-picking award for June 1999.

I said, "Dear Y2K Pro, can you give me absolute assurance and a guarantee that in the city of Omaha, NE the electricity, natural gas, and water will continue to run during Y2K?" I should have said, "Dear Y2K Pro, can you give me absolute assurance and a guarantee that in the city of Omaha, NE the electricity, natural gas, and water will continue to run during Y2K, and have nothing more than normal outages? Happy?

Sorry, I'm just not used to weasel-wording something to death. If you want to emulate the CINC, proceed to argue the meaning of "is" all you wish, it's a free country. The point being: very large corporations like Borax, and various federal agencies are taking actions that indicate that power outages beyond the typical little 2-5 hour type may be possible. An outage that extends for days puts my parents' lives at considerable risk. This is my concern. As far as flawed thinking goes, I seem to be in very good comapny. Of course time will tell. If I'm wrong, I've purchased some emergency supplies instead of CDs. If you are wrong, a lot of people will suffer needlessly. I can do without some CDs.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 18, 1999.

Our esteemed Y2Kazoo qualifies for many, many awards. 1) Best looking mounted head over the fireplace.

2) Best source for refilling battery acids.

3) Best chance of getting struck by lightning.

4) Best proof that Darwin must be back-logged.

I wonder if she speaks to her husband they way she does us.......

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), June 18, 1999.

Sgt:

"There is a point when charity becomes unnecessary sacrifice and unnecessary sacrifice becomes self destruction." Gordon Dickson Wolf and Iron

-- Juniper (Silverfox@netutah.com), June 18, 1999.

THE best two pages that I've seen written on y2k was an article by Bennet in the April 16th issue of "Science" (a periodical). Your public library should have it. If not, any University Library will have it. It is very compelling and very concise.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), June 19, 1999.

at $12.50 for 50 pounds of rice,you can afford to feed anyone you love.It doesn' matter if they get sick of plain rice while you are feasting on spam.Aian peasants have been known to live off millet and still be strong enough to labor.rice will keep one alive,rice and beans will keep you pretty much healthy,it's almost a complete protien.beggars can't be choosers,and they should have listened.Are you really saing you can't afford one half a cup of uncooked rice a day for a family member?At$12.50 for 50 pounds?That's bullshit and you know it.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 19, 1999.