Just posted this little piece of news to...

Calling All Forum Moderators

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000wtF

Im willing to go on record and state, as many others already have, that Im ALSO on the Forum Moderators team!

So there. What a long strange trip its been.

Here ya go trolls...

Another TARGET. (Do your darndest!)

Fortunately, most the Y2K regulars KNOW what is important... with five and a half months and counting...

PREPARING for the great Y2K unknowable. So, lets get on with it!

Shift happens.

Diane, still a 5 locally. Globally... ranging between 1 thru 10 in unknowable places!

BTW, Questions anyone?

For the trolls... bottom line... its still about Y2K and ALL its ramifications... and so is the Time Bomb 2000 Forum!

Go team!

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999

Answers

Diane:

Glad to see you as a forum moderator. welcome, and good luck

Bob P

-- Bob P (rpilc99206@aol.com), June 14, 1999.

You and all the other moderators have my full support and thanks for taking the job.

-- Chris (griffen@globalnet.co.uk), June 14, 1999.

Diane...-salute-. Good luck indeed. OK everybody.....back to work, back to WORK! Breaks OVER....drink that on YOUR OWN TIME, buddy!

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 14, 1999.

I do not at all hate opinions contrary to mine. I am so far from being vexed to see discord between my judgments and others', and from making myself incompatible with the society of men because they are of a different sentiment and party from mine, that on the contrary, since variety is the most general fashion that nature has followed, and more in minds than bodies, inasmuch as minds are of a substance suppler and susceptible of more forms, I find it rarer to see our humors and plans agree. And there were never in the world two opinions alike, any more than two hairs or two grains. Their most universal quality is diversity.

-- Michel de Montaigne (Essays@II.37.com), June 14, 1999.

Diane ----- I'm probably just having another senior moment, but just what does being a "Forum Moderator" mean?

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 14, 1999.

Diane- Thank you and all other forum moderaters for keeping this place going.

-- Gia (Laureltree7@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.

Michele,

If everyone with differing opinions expressed themselves as beautifully as you, there would be no problem! Enjoyed your post.

"Shift happens" - I love it, Diane. Let's get on with the business at hand - I, for one, have alot to learn.

-- Jill Dance (jdance@mindspring.com), June 14, 1999.

Oh, sorry, I meant MICHEL,

I know you're not a girl - typing habits!

-- Jill Dance (jdance@mindspring.com), June 14, 1999.

moderator = one in the middle, who discusses various things on both sides to learn from others' ideas and comments.

See also moderate, as in "not an extremist".

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), June 14, 1999.

Diane, When they announced a new group of moderators I just knew you were gonna be in there. Hope you still have time to play and, what's "spooning" by the way. (god that was awfull!).

Hey mabe the'll give the guns to programmers (and the rest of us computer oriented types) to guard the interstates. I mean we gotta have a job in the post-microchip age too. Shoot we can practically speak English, right? Maybe not...Anyway need to get back to work, never know when the Jack-boots in IS Security will show up.

Enough tuna...lookin' at sardine prices.

Mike

-- MidwestMike_ (midwestmike_@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.

thinkIcan,

Good question...

We're still figuring that one out! Stay tuned.

First... we're trying to reach concensus on "what" guidelines should be posted as requested posting behavior. (Believe me... that's NOT easy! We're a VERY diverse group, to say the least!)

Then, like most of you, we're completely SICK of the trolls, hecklers and general nonsense posters. What a major pain they are and a waste of time and energy!

Since no one person wants to be glued to the internet 24/7 it's better to have a group of regular posters, JOINED BY ALL OF YOU, to keep many eyes on the lookout for dribble posts that really need a quick delete.

If you see something that needs attention just post a "DELETE PLEASE" request on that thread. When several "real" posters (not trolls) say "delete" then fine. (It's a democratic group thang).

Also you can send an e-mail message to the link at the bottom of the Top Level Time Bomb Forum 2000 page at: y2ktimebobm2000@yahoo.com to communicate privately with the Sysop(s) and Moderators.

We all want to carry on with Ed Yourdon's legacy of forum openness (quite OT at times) but we don't want the trash either.

All pollys, doomers and every flavor of the Y2K rainbow of posters is welcome to state their opinions about Y2K and inter-related topics.

Flammers will be encouraged by all us to "calm down," whereas out-and- out hecklers and "potty" trash may receive a (relatively) quick delete.

None of us is "into" censorship, editing posts, seemingly taking away ANYONE's freedom-of-speech, etc. (Shudder!) But we would like to encourage the wonderful and diverse exchange of opinions that this Forum is *sometimes* known for.

*Sigh*

;-D

Key Point:

With 5 1/2 months to go... figuring out the ever changing Y2K news... preparing... and HELPING newcomers find request information (so they can make up their own minds)... is what's important, IMHO.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.

Oops typo...

Top Level Time Bomb Forum 2000 e-mail at: y2ktimebomb2000@yahoo.com

*Sigh*

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.

Diane,

Glad to learn that you're one of the moderators. I think, with those named so far, we are in good hands. I like the idea of a group consensus for deletion posted on the thread.

Michel,

Enjoyed your post immensely. Please share your thoughts more often...

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), June 14, 1999.

MidWest Mike.........You show interest in the lessons of the spoon........patience...........be silent and you may hear the voice of the spoon..........that you may also be one with the spoon........

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), June 14, 1999.

Hello all. No, I'm not back...but I was impelled out of lurkland to reply in support of Diane.

Though I am one of the biggest proponents of Freedom and the Bill of Rights and the vanishing value of our Constitution....I have a few thoughts on the censorship argument.

Though we were all used to speaking freely on the forum...and passions running hot ensues the intensity of words to make a point (of which I freely admit I am guilty of - but stand by), There was no written rights or contract in which was stated: " free speech and expression shall not be infringed..." by Mr. Yourdon. We have no RIGHTS to free expression on the Forum unless it is granted. Though I cherish freedom of expression (especially political), the Forum is a private entity within the rights expressed in our Constitution, and as such has the right to demand standards of conduct from the participants.

Like any club or private enterprise, the Forum can impose rules and standards before allowing the public to enjoy what it offers. The only way I can see a problem with that is if the GOVERNMENT steps in to demand that kind of conduct. As a private and free enterprise, the Forum can exercize as it wills, any rule it desires. IT IS NOT CENSORSHIP the way some have suggested it is.

Censorship or elimination of offending posts is NOT infringing on your freedom of expression. If you have views and you wish to express them, even though they are vile or vulgar...you are free to go to another forum that allows that kind of conduct, or (and this is a true measure of the freedom we enjoy in the U.S.) start your OWN forum with your own cash and time...then you can do as you wish.

This is not to say I don't see our freedoms being eroded and infringed upon daily. What I'm referring to here is a private enterprise, founded and funded and shared by those whom put the time and effort into creating it. Therefore they, and they alone have the sole right to expect rules be followed and standards met to enjoy the participation the forum provides. I think their standards are not harsh at all...and in fact quite liberal (damn, did I really say that word???).

However, if you disagree with this, you have the freedom to not participate or surf the forum. You can go elsewhere. In the long run this course of action may indeed hurt the forum's participation (free market y'know), but the control the SYOPS are trying to establish may in-fact be a boon to draw much participation from others who dared not post at all before due to trolls and flamers.

As a personal point, I have no problem with flaming a point. It's a fine-line to express intesity on a point and not have the perception of personal attack. I guess that is a matter of the eye of the beholder. I of course as you long-time posters know, am not blunt in speaking my mind, and it's almost impossible to flame a point without offending the poster who expressed their point. Ideology is a touchy subject and passion runs high when ideology and Y2K come together as they have.

One of the reasons I decided to split the forum (besides finalizing preparations) is the level of trolling and debunking which apparently served no purpose other than to disrupt the flow of ideas and concepts on this board. It's almost as if these "hacks" have been sent to do their worst to tarnish the forum, and turn away anyone curious about Y2K. Arguing with them is pointless and a waste as I found out. My time is better spent elsewhere.

But if the SYOPS now moderating the blessing Ed Yourdon has left for everyone choose to demand standards....then so be it, and more power to them.

It is possible that a level of sensible discourse can serve to save alot more lives.

Of course in my case, biting the tongue is not easy when there are those out there that support actions or inactions that will end up (in my opinion) hurting all of us later.

And with that.....Later all, and God Bless.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), June 14, 1999.

Thanks INVAR!

Prep well!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.

For more from Michel de Montaigne, consult your local library or bookstore - he is a 16th century French essayist! More like diaries or stream of consciousness or (gasp) reflective internet postings, than structured essays. Good reading.

-- Debbie (dbspence@usa.net), June 14, 1999.

Thanks to those who chose and to the chosen. Diane has done a yoemans job in contributing to this Forum and I am sure will continue that record as a Forum moderator.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 14, 1999.

Craig,

Very well, but you must remember, I'm an American (you know, Quebec, Valley Forge, New Orleans, Mexico City, Gettysburg, Plains Indian Wars, San Quan Hill, The Ardennes, Omaha Beach, Inchon, Danang and the Gulf War). I will not easily submit to assimilation into TheBorg. Bring on The Spoon!

-- MidwestMike_ (midwestmike_@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.

Welcome!

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), June 15, 1999.

Gee, I wonder how Ed could put up with all the "trash" post's and all of a sudden, "moderation" is the answer. Still sounds like socialism to me.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), June 15, 1999.

Gee Richard, that not's so difficult to figure out, it took a major catastrophe, like the shooting at Columbine High, to give the gun control crowd the *ammunition* to stage an all out attack on gun ownership. At the same time, it gave the moderators of good taste, spiritual and social correctness, in all their virtuous wisdom, the impetus to censor videos, movies, music, TV shows, morals and any and all generic smut.

The major catastrophe of Ed Yourdon leaving this forum gave his acolytes/moderators a raison d'etre to justify their censorship of the small body of the unwashed who post trash here, in order to satisfy the great body of the pure and virtuous who post here.

Well it's a good thing Invar has departed, so he says, or else Diane might be put in the ignominious position of having to delete, or edit one of her old buddy's filthy, hateful diatribes.

Hey Invar, I still don't have the hots for Clinton, despite your frothing, raving declaration that I did. I'm still just that "deaf-blind, piece of liberal shit" you had so much fun bashing until you gave your "Farewell to My Greatness," address and departed into the sunset. Now lets all say AMEN, God bless you and your Invar.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 15, 1999.

Oh gilda,

Get real! When has anything been CENSORED around here? Even the bloody trolls yelling "censorship?" This is the least uncensored place around!

Our objective is to have a vehicle to get rid of the the disruptive and heckling trolls, and the crap that is just wasted bandwidth and added NOTHING to the Y2k discussion? Recall... there is an end game going on now... 5 and 1/2 months to go!

People still swear here. Do you see them edited? NO. Be fair.

We need very SIMPLE guidelines... especially for newcomers... just so they know what we're striving for, and it gives us some leverage when someone "goes over the bend" like al-d did.

Sheesh!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 15, 1999.

I'm wonder what a moderator does besides post that he-she is a moderator. In Canada a moderator is one who does nothing while the others do all the talking. I liked it better when Ed ran things. He had brains.

-- Canada Guy (Lurking@Canada.com), June 15, 1999.

BTW,

In INVAR's case absolutely NOTHING worked at getting rid of the Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts troll. For a month it was a gawd awful time!

INVAR went way over the top with his posts... it was a timing thing... but ya know... it WORKED! JBD finally stopped. And for that, I am forever grateful.

So there!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 15, 1999.

Well Canada Guy,

Shift Happens.

Get over it.

Are you prepared for Y2K now? Great if you are, many newcomers are not. We... ALL of us might be able to "help." Or not.

Forums choice. Your choice too, to post or not to post.

That is the question, eh?

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 15, 1999.

Diane,

I know you're a moderator but aren't you supposed to like shut up and let the others do the talking. You palaver way too much here. It gets old.

-- Canada Guy (Lurking@Canada.com), June 15, 1999.

thanks, diane. i don't envy you your job.

-- jocelyne slough (jonslough@tln.net), June 15, 1999.

Thanks jocelyne,

None of the crew have it easy. We're both regular participants (first) AND semi-moderators (second)... and all volunteer because we care about the Y2K impact on our country and towns, just like everyone else posting here.

*Sigh*

(Do that a lot these daze).

And trolls post under many names CG, but anyone can usually spot "them" but what they say... or don't say, eh, my Canuckian "chum?"

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 15, 1999.

I'm on your side Diane! It's a tough job!

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), June 15, 1999.

No Diane, this isn't the "least uncensored place around." Gibe on annoy.com is the least censored of any site on the web.

Clinton Fein went to court with Janet Reno to fight against censorship on the web, by various outside groups, that wanted the web sanitized "for the children." They won the first round in the legal battle of the Communications Decency Act (CDA).

But please don't visit Gibe if you are one of the "wanna' censor" everything people. It is randy, and obscenity abounds, so it's not for the faint of heart, sensitive, or religious right crowd, and flaming is de rigueur. But Clinton Fein has fought for freedom on the web, and I admire that.

All of you so eager for censorship, even though it's true we don't have much on this site, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

OK, I'll be fair, Diane.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 15, 1999.

Gilda

There are some less than informed opinions floating around. Now some have come to give and take information. Some posters do neither. You seem to be an intelligent person. If it looks like trash put it in the garbage. Having trash around the "house" makes it look dirty and is a health hazard.

I am sure that Diane knows what trash is.

An she has provided a ton of information to this forum. That is how it is built. Thank you Diane

-- Brian (imager@home.com), June 15, 1999.