Censorship.....Naw! Respect For Your Fellow Man......Yes. If this forum is in fact being moderated then it is time to insure that al-d and his ilk take their sickness elsewhere. How can these types of posts be allowed to continue? Am I being overly sensitive folks? How about it-speak up before this quality discussion forum turns into a word sewer. I no longer have any doubts why Mr. Yourdon removed himself from these pages. Can you imagine the reaction that a new contributor will have upon reading some of this trash. BTW, how much longer will the intelligent, seasoned contributors stick around this site the way it is spirialing downward (IMO)? Surgery is required!!
-- Iben (lurking@home.sum), June 13, 1999
Answers
Agree. Is everyone tired of trolls yet? Had enough freedom of
speech. Going to keep yelling censorship even when there is none? Can
we delete the trash now? Your forum too.
Comments or suggestions welcome.
-- Time Bomb 2000 Mod Team (y2ktimebomb2000@yahoo.com), June 13, 1999.
I second that motion! The main reason for this Forum is to inform all
Americans of the real and serious threat of Y2K! When new people
visit this site and see al-d's and others trashy messages, they will
immediately stop reading and go elsewhere! That totally defeats the
purpose of this Forum!!!
If the moderators are not willing to intercept trashy messages around
the clock, and clean up this Forum, you may as well discontinue this
Forum. I realize that Americans have the First Amendment Rights of
free speech. However, the Forum readers have rights too by not having
to read trash!
It is sad that it has come to this and that this requires constant
around the clock control of the Moderators.
If the Moderators refuse to take aggressive action, lets just take Ed
Yourdon's example and just bag it! With just 6 months left, there is
almost no time left for Newby's to start preparing anyway.
I'M TIRED OF READING TRASH!!!
IS ANYBODY ELSE TIRED OF READING TRASH???
IF YOU ARE, THEN SPEAK YOUR PIECE!!!
-- freddie (freddie@thefreeloader.com), June 13, 1999.
I don't see it as censorship, I see it as moderation. Now,
there is someone recently causing alot of trouble and I think that
person has been posing as Al-d alot lately because he makes himself
such an easy target so let's not get too nasty about his posts.
Maybe a little simple but he still has the right to speak his mind.
But someone has really ruined these last two days on the forum and I
think it's time the moderators deleted the crap that passes for
trolling. You don't have to go around and delete every bad word, in
fact profanity isn't the issue here, it's getting rid of crap threads
and posts to make more room for what we all want to see. Al-d and
his ilk are welcome to post ( respectfully and only so often)
but these other trolls are way past their limit of "free speech".
IMO, delete the *obvious* trolls, keep the rest.
-- (oldyeller@sanfran.com), June 13, 1999.
We got tired of the trolls back in December. Drags the place down.
We're not fans of vulgarity either. Degrades the writer, demeans the
Forum, lowers the vibration. That's exactly what the immature
disruptors are trying to do, tho -- destroy 'n trash 'n bash.
We've been writing suggestions and opinions about all this for many
months, but zzzzzzzzzzzz Ignore buttons on zzzzzzzzzzzz typing into
the void zzzzzzzzzzz. We're not the Sysops or Cyclops or Deleter or
DiETer, just little ole weeples.
And many regulars have raised a outcry against any tweaking -- y'all
getting what y'all voted for, apparently. Looks fairly Democratic,
which can end up pandering to the lowest denominator. Don't know what
the answer is; don't want too many changes too fast.
New Avon product = Bug Guard, wonder if they have Troll Off? Or f
Off? Or Gross Block? Pesticide software -- hey, maybe that's what Ed
is working on! Sure would be useful.
xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxx
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 13, 1999.
I duno whut thu problem is. I gots my own troll avoidance software
on board. it's wet ware, called thu MK 1.01 EYEBALL an' evr'body got
a set.
Chuck
-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), June 13, 1999.
IMO- if someone posts repetitive useless rambling threads on a regular basis- and there are no controls- it will destroy the forum.
For instance- if i wanted to do that to the forum- without any controls in place- I could just repeatedly place new threads up- ten, twenty, thirty a day- takes only minutes to do each one. This would effectively "take over" the forum, driving the other threads off due to lack of space. Perhaps that is what is happening here. Do we want this? I do notice that the content of threads has gone radically down in quality recently.
Maybe "censorship" is too strong a term- we just need some basic rules as commonsense and decency aren't working here any longer. Perhaps a limit on new threads per day per person? Or elimination from the forum if they are rambling and incoherent.??
-- farmer (hillsidefarm@drbs.net), June 13, 1999.
Just ignoring the trollish posts doesn't change the fact they take up
thread space and push older threads into the archive.
-- (troll@begone.com), June 13, 1999.
I have been "lurking" around this forum since last October when I
subscribed to the internet. There has been so much quality
information in the past and this information has helped me immensely.
However, for the past few days it has been primarily a bunch of
garbage. Have all the quality posters gone to the chat sessions?
In the past the intelligence quotio of people posting to this forum
has been well above average and this has been the best forum on the
internet. What happened? Can we get it back? Please moderators - help!
-- Nadine Zint (nadine@hillsboro.net), June 13, 1999.
The AL-D person seems quite menacing. It is easy to reckognise certain
people who look for attention. When they recieve it, they get their
injection. They become addicted and want more. They continue abusing
the "Abuse Drug", since that is what they are used to when attempting
to get attention. Some people start off at the bottom socially and end
up staying there. Begging for abuse is indicative of this phenomena.
Regarding censure: No one can monitor around the clock all the time.
Even once a day cleaning may not stop the initiator from getting their
temporary fix. Cleansing is an indirect means of giving attention,
however, it may become neccessary nonetheless. You have my vote
because I'm on the side of those who care.
-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), June 13, 1999.
While I do not believe in censorship, and occasional swearing, within a relevant post, certainly should not be censored, I have to say that irrelevant rants, and total idiotic posts, simply offer nothing in the way of information. I don't mind off topic threads that affect all of us, such as weather, war, civil unrest and such, but I think attention seeking behavior should stop by kindergarten.
One of the worst things a poster can do is use another's name to post stupidity. That IMHO is stealing an identity. As soon as the forum moderators discover the thief, he should be booted off the forum. Pollys and trolls, who pose valid arguments though, should not be deleted.
I do not think this is why Mr. Yourdon left this forum; I simply think he is moving on, and he said something to that effect.
-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 13, 1999.
I don't know as its censorship, but rather "selectionship". You
wouldn't accept it if someone of another faith and came into your
Christian church and started chanting mantras, would you? Even
though you respect them and their choice of religion. Rick Cowels
has some definte rules on his forum and the thread may be interesting
as hell, but if its not re electricity it goes bye bye. And I think
thats the way this forum should be. We don't have to put up with
this stuff. If you wouldn't put up with it at the dinner table, why
should you put up with it here? I hesitate giving this URL to people
that really are looking for y2k preparation help. I am embarassed by
the threads on this forum and feel that it might reflect upon me with
regards to their thoughts about my character. So lets DO something
constructive to make this a worthwhile forum. If it means moderators
have to monitor it, thats the way it is, shameful as it is. I will
give up some of my right to free speech. When free speech is nothing
but vulgarity and stupidness, I prefer that the free speech be
slightly curtailed.
Somebody got another forum that I can go to?
Taz
-- Taz (Tassie @aol.com), June 13, 1999.
TRASH ALERT!!! DO NOT READ POSTS BY....,....,....,....!!! THESE ARE
POSTS WRITTEN BY DERANGED MINDS!!!
Perhaps some of us should post a TRASH ALERT like the above on this
Forum a couple of times a day and list those posters names like al-d,
etc. to warn the newcomers. That way the newcomers can be alerted not
to read their posts. That way all of us can help to put an end to all
this garbage!
-- smitty (smitty@sandiego.com), June 13, 1999.
Let us be careful before we slip on the slope of censorship. If we
behave as oppressors how will anyone tell us apart? The "trash" is
representative of society:fear,anger,and disbelieve. Disinformation
and rumor also tell us much. Be aware! Take the plank from our eyes.
There are no Y2k "experts"; its never been. Only y2k informed people.
The first Amendment tolerates kooks as a cost-but does not require
that we listen or believe. For 3 years Ive read much that conflicts
and changes. Sift through & make your own decisions. The forum will
survive. Either disregard those you disagree with or challange with
your truths. Y2k is but one challenge to our precious freedons. Let
us be Eternall Vigilant.
-- Ruth the Moab (aapm@aapainmanage.org), June 13, 1999.
Ruth, I disagree
As Ghandi said,
"We are a tolerant people, but there only so much we can
tolerate!"
-- (oldyeller@sanfran.com), June 13, 1999.
I agree with those who say "enough already" of the extremely foolish
or trashy posts. It ISN'T censorship, its management, and thats not
parsing words.
After all, this forum has a PURPOSE --- it wasn't intended just to be
a free -for - all - mud - wrestling - championship site.
I'm familiar enough with the "moderators" to have no concerns that
they'll go overboard, we all enjoy a little diversity and can accept
a "Praise God" or a "$^%^%#%#^" now and then. But clearly the too
many unthinking posters are qiute a distraction - and should be
reined in (IMHO).
Not talking about OT or even Y2KPro/Poole --- I think we all
basically know the kind we'retalking about --- al-d comes to mind as
the most recent/frequent.
-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), June 13, 1999.
This is a great forum. I understand what oldyeller meant about only so
much tolerance. But let us proceed carefully so as not to behave as
those who have denied or try to deny difference. I offer this
suggestion: Let the moderators (who I too trust) start by listing
tentative rules for comment. Give a brief comment time. Then there
will be buy in and have been a process underlying the regulation
-- Ruth the Moab (aapm@aapainmanage.org), June 13, 1999.
Ruth,
Your thoughts and intentions are surely well directed and have valid
points to take under consideration. When our forefathers established
the First Amendment, the world was a much different place and in fact
MUCH,MUCH less tolerant of the bottom feeders of humanity. Would you
sanction the type of trash talk we are discussing,in your home? In
your neighborhood? In a public place where you and your family may be
visiting? I think not.
How about this fellow in Michigan that has been convicted for public
profanity. Initially,I was outraged when this situation developed and
my call was that the legal system had gone too far. However, I have
since become more informed regarding the facts surrounding the
incident and now find myself moving in the direction of the courts.
Folks, I spent 8 years in the Military and have been around profanity
all of my adult life. I have no problem in using strong words when
the situation is somewhat controlled. Strong words lead to stronger
action and should not be used without considerations.
IT IS NOT THE GIVEN RIGHT OF ANY PERSON TO SAY WHATEVER THEY WISH
WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS. NOT IN A PUBLIC PLACE, NOT IN YOUR HOME, AND
NOT ON THIS FORUM!!!!!
If you desire this site to be cleaned-up then now is your chance to
let the moderators know how you feel. They are asking for your input
so take a moment and speak YOUR MIND!!
-- Iben (lurking@home.sum), June 13, 1999.
For all of the bitching about al-d, he gets a LOT of responses. I
still say that trolls will go away if ignored, but the temptation to
respond seems too great for many, including me from time to time.
Rather than just pick on al-d, perhaps a general limit on how many
new threads may be started by anyone in a 24 hour period. To me that
seems to be the best compromise between total freedom of expression,
and overloading the board with nonsense.
Even idiots have a point of view, and should be allowed to speak,
IMHO.
-- Unc D (unkeed@yahoo.com), June 13, 1999.
If we're to continue to pretend that we are part of civilized
society, we'll have to remember that the first amendment was designed
to allow differing ideas to be discussed in a reasonable manner. If
folly and malice are allowed to displace reasonable discourse, the
society we hope to keep will not survive.
Every newspaper in the country maintains standards of acceptable
content. Not even the ACLU has objected to editorial rejection of
vulgarities and abusive language. If that policy is adopted on this
forum, there are many other sites accessible on the Net where those
here who argue that posts of this sort should be unrestricted might
be happier. Judging from what I've seen on these other sites, heat
beats light there by about 20 to 1.
farmer correctly notes that anyone choosing to post many empty
or irrelevant posts here each day can effectively shut this forum
down, by driving all other posts to the archives before anyone has
even read them. It's true that we're all free to ignore these posts,
but what would be left of any substance?
I propose rules of civility more or less as follows, to be published
in a paragraph, in clear text on the top level. No one could pretend
they had not been notified.)
Avoid abusive language
Avoid vulgarity and profanity
No personal attacks on individuals
No defamation of a class of persons
No psychoanalytical masquerades embodying the foregoing
Challenge perceived errors with facts or reasoned arguments
Being right is not mandatory. Being wrong is not a
crime.
Anyone overloading the forum with new threads will be warned, and
barred if the practice continues.
Judgment of the moderator (aka SYSOP) is final
-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), June 13, 1999.
Smitty:
I came here lurking today and noticed this thread after perusing many
others. It was quite amusing to me to look at the other threads. I
now realize that MOST of the posts using MY name and E-mail address
on this forum were NOT posted by me. I suspect that other posters
have the same problem, and I will again refrain from posting. This
(in itself) is enough to discourage me from posting on this forum.
Anita
-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), June 13, 1999.
When this question was originally brought up, I was of the opinion of
no deleteing, no editing, no compromise of free speech. Great ideals,
we hold these freedoms dear to us.
As much compassion as I feel for those who disrupt, for whatever
reason, I feel likewise as much compassion toward those folks seeking
advice and knowledge about preparations for their families. Those who
disrupt, still have access to read and learn, so no harm can be done
to them if that is why they are here.
Anyone wondering if deleting these offending threads is a good idea,
look to the bottom of the board and see all of the productive and
helpful information that will be lost today or tomarrow to accomadate
one or two persons need to distract. I have pulled several threads up
this past week, not because I am gifted at adding new information, but
because the majority of the first 10-15 threads have been so useless
in terms of preparation, especially for those newly awakened to the
issue at hand: y2k.
Likewise, challenges to the new moderators is just as non-productive.
We need to exhibit a little trust and alot of patience. Goodness, let
them make a decision, then we can all live with it or move on by
choice. Moderators, I shall give you the same advice that I most
frequently give to myself and others dealing with y2k..."trust your
instincts..."
-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), June 13, 1999.
Unc D said:
"Even idiots have a point of view, and should be allowed to speak,
IMHO. "
In my opinion , that is just the politicaly correct thinking that has
ruined this country. The laws of selection have been instituted for
some unwritten, unspoken law that we all have to let dumb people,
mean people, racist/militant people speak their mind because it's the
"nice thing to do". Well if that is the case of this forum I guess
I'll be going and not coming back. Someone mentioned how embarassing
it would be to recomend this site to anyone and have them come here
and read this nonesense. Boy, is that ever the truth.
-- (xxx@xx.x), June 13, 1999.
Just start another forum with the restricted topic and content. Leave
this one elone. Easy to do, and no one gets their panties in a wad...
Fat_C
-- Fat_C (f@chance.com), June 13, 1999.
A dialogue requies a speaker(poster) and a listener (reader). If this
forum exists to facilitat dialogue as oppossed to some form of
psychotherapeutic monotribe than rules of discourse are appropriate.
There is a differnce between regulating and censoring. Resgulations
which are published allow the potential poster to decide if they want
to abide by the rules;they also put the poster on notice as to what
the communinity will tolerate. Such advance notice is different than
censorship. Those not wanting to play by the rules are free to go
elsewhere and there are alternative vehicles for their speech. The
forum gains (and maybe loses)by eliminating "trash". The process is
fair. I think the rules suggested by Tom are a good starting place.
-- Ruth the Moab (aapm@aapainmanage.org), June 13, 1999.
Nadine
I think many of the posters have gone to chat sessions or back and
forth to one another. The number of regulars posting has dropped and
the forum is suffering. Intentional or not...does not matter.
Instead of removing the trolls, many have chosen to remove themselves.
The result is that those coming here to find help will find only
threads and not people who were here to help us when we came.
-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), June 13, 1999.
one might point out that mature censorship is merely the enforcement
of a standard set of rules.
Tom - most of yours seem okay, but I have no idea what you mean by
right and wrong in that context, so I have to with hold agreement on
those parts of your proposal.
Arlin
-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), June 13, 1999.
I agree with Jon Johnson and the post below by troll@begone.com:
"Just ignoring the trollish posts doesn't change the fact they take
up thread space and push older threads into the archive.
(Perhaps they are reporting back to Troll HQ at this moment:"Mission
accomplished. Forum destroyed.")
I don't think we're damaged that much; BD said it well:"This is the
Internet." This is where I come for my news -- I just hate seeing my
trusted friends of the last 5 months crowded out by garbage.
A thread that starts out abusively, or with NO information
contributed about y2k or _anything_ of interest to our participants,
cannot be expected to attract any useful postings beneath it, either,
and can likely be deleted without _any_ loss to us all.
This is a forum about y2k, not about freedom of speech. It is GOOD
to see us all defending that right, including the rights of "idiots",
but we have only 200 days left, and fewer days before other y2k
"previews" hit us.
I am here for several purposes (educational, preparation, good
companionship) -- all related to y2k. Idiots I can find anywhere.
If you still need education as to the universality of idiocy, this is
not the place, though you will see examples of it aplenty in the
months ahead (again, relative to y2k).
"Censorship", in this context, is a misleading word. Censorship
exists to shape CONTENT. When the only _content_ is insult, or
random bleatings, a thread or a post are not to be censored. They
ought to be DELETED, like any computerized emissions found to be in
error.
Do YOU think the moderators of this forum are likely to steer the
CONTENT of this forum AWAY from y2k usefulness by DELETING useless
threads? I doubt it. (They could also create a DAILY JUNKPILE
thread: combining all the ones judged useless into one freely
readable cesspool.)
We are all permitted to drive on the streets of any town. You are
NOT permitted to drive a junk car out to the middle of the freeway,
abandon it there, and expect that others do not have the right to tow
it away IMMEDIATELY.
-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), June 13, 1999.
After being away from the forum for several weeks when I returned a
lot of things had changed. Ed was gone and it appeared the forum was
heading down hill. It took a long time of weeding thru the trolls to
find any real information. New posters were here but offering nothing
to the forum except garbage.
When telling DGIs about Y2k, I would always encourage them to come to
the forum to learn. Not now. I would be afraid they would think I was
a kook. This is the shame of these type of posts, they do not offer
anything to anyone except taking up space and time.
I think we should take a vote. I say delete the posts if they have
nothing to offer.
I wonder if EY ever thought his wonderful forum would be reduced to
this? Let's get back on track with serious decission and information
sharing.
-- Linda A. (adahi@muhlon.com), June 13, 1999.
Just ignore the bastards,they will get bored and go away. Or hunt
them down and kill them. :>), Daryll
-- Daryll (twinck@wfeca.net), June 13, 1999.
It's no secret that I am not the sysop(s) but am involved in some of
the brainstorming. The brainstorming continues. It has been and
continues to be a mix of listening to the opinions of all the regulars
on the subject as well as a lively direct debate on when and where to
delete.
Don't give up. As I've said a lot, we're in a very slow Y2K news
period and in the midst of many attacks on Y2K prep, both here and in
the real world. The forum is churning. So is "Y2K" itself as a
crisis.
My guess (remember, not my call) is that a formal policy of some kind
will evolve. It won't be too everyone's liking, including mine, I'm
sure, but what is?
Somewhere between "no deletions" (too weak) and deleting what someone
"doesn't like" (not appropriate) lies the right balance.
As for the chat sessions, for myself, it isn't so much an avoidance of
the forum as a reluctance to repeatedly rehash arguments on the forum
that can only be resolved by Y2K rollover itself. By contrast, the
chat sessions do seem to offer (we'll find out, they're only
beginning) the opportunity for a somewhat different and perhaps fresh
type of conversation (as always, if you're hearing this for the first
time, email me if you'd like to participate).
My own conviction is that this forum will survive and flourish,
especially 4Q 1999 and beyond, aided by evolving policies that make
reasonable sense to most of us.
-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 13, 1999.
Please,please clean up the Forum.
It's going to be a hard,mean world next year.Let's start practising
rational but tough actions now.Are you really going to let an idiot's
or troll's posting disrupt the importance of maybe learning how to
cope a little better next year.
If so,how are you going to begin to cope making some of the really
hard decisions next year.
Freedom is an illusion in any society.
Just calling it as I see it.
-- Chris (griffen@globalnet.co.uk), June 13, 1999.
I agree: cut the profanity, gross name-calling, useless trolling, and
time-wasting, go-nowhere threads. I come to this forum for
information-not to muck through sewage.
When I first started lurking, I spent hours every day learning
valuable information. (And that was just reading through the day's
posts, not necessarily digging through the archived treasures.) Now I
feel like I need to take a shower after sifting through the day's
posts so I can wash off the slime.
I don't have the time to spend on useless junk. If the forum
continues to degenerate, as it unfortunately has, I will have to
abandon it and look for another place to find pertinent and timely y2k
information. (Not that my leaving the forum would be such a great
loss, but I think my sentiments are felt by a number of others as
well.)
A moderator's job is to direct a session-not necessarily dictating
what is said on the micro level-but to make sure that the session
stays on topic. That's a hard thing to do (I have much experience)
but it is necessary if you want to accomplish a task (disseminating
information)in a short amount of time.
To the moderators-you have a difficult task ahead of you. I admire
your courage in taking on this task but I don't envy the hard work
involved. Thanks for your efforts. Linda
-- newbiebutnodummy (Linda@home.com), June 13, 1999.
Seems to me we're being pretty ethnocentric here. What I mean is
that this is the Internet, the World Wide Web! The most common
comments seem to be about first amendment rights and freedom of
speech. There is no governing body here and no set of laws. The
United States Constitution is irrelevant here, and no one has a
"right" to say anything.
Those who own the resources (the server and hard drive space) should
be free to make the decisions as to the content of the forum.
-- ariZONEa (no_more_b@d.posts.com), June 13, 1999.
Just don't respond to their post's. They will get tired of talking to
themselves after a while.
-- FLAME AWAY (BLehman202@aol.com), June 13, 1999.
Things Are Not Always Black or White
When I was in elementary school, I got into a major argument with a
boy in my class. I have forgotten what the argument was about, but I
have never forgotten the lesson I learned that day.
I was convinced that "I" was right and "he" was wrong - and he was
just as convinced that "I" was wrong and "he" was right. The teacher
decided to teach us a very important lesson. She brought us up to the
front of the class and placed him on one side of her desk and me on
the other. In the middle of her desk was a large, round object. I
could clearly see that it was black. She asked the boy what color the
object was. "White," he answered.
I couldnt believe he said the object was white, when it was
obviously black! Another argument started between my classmate and
me, this time about the color of the object.
The teacher told me to go stand where the boy was standing and told
him to come stand where I had been. We changed places, and now she
asked me what the color of the object was. I had to answer, "White."
It was an object with two differently colored sides, and from his
viewpoint it was white. Only from my side was it black.
My teacher taught me a very important lesson that day: You must stand
in the other persons shoes and look at the situation through their
eyes in order to truly understand their perspective.
by Judie Paxton
-- so (think@bout.it), June 13, 1999.
So Judie,
As a somewhat frequent visitor to this forum, I was drawn to this
thread by the subject of moderating the incoming postings. Scrolling
down through the many responses it would seem that most are in favor
of bringing this forum back to its former status, one of lively and
informative information reletive to Y2K issues. The lesson you have
shared with us is a basic guideline that we all strive to adhere to,
but I fail to see how this relates to the type of material that this
thread is addressing. Would you, or your teacher stood for that
classmate to viciously swear and digress into meaningless ramblings
about the black/white sphere? This thread is not about expressing
one's opinion but how it is expressed. Every person that comes on to
this forum should expect respect, and more importantly, give it as
well.
-- Barry Jaynes (bchbear@earthlink.net), June 13, 1999.
FWIW, a few opinions on "moderating":
1. This is not the only forum on the web. If people want to
post junk, there are plenty of places on the web on which they
can do so. Therefore, removing junk posts from this forum
does not constitute an abrigdment of freedom of speech; it
constitutes taking out the trash.
2. Frequent visitors to this forum can learn to recognize
posts that are merely disruptive to the stated purposes of
this forum. However, before someone gets to be a frequent
visitor, they start as a first timer and get a first
impression. While even a first timer might expect occassional
junk posts on such a forum, encountering a large number of
such posts may quickly lead them to conclude that the forum
does not have useful preparation information, or if it has,
such info is buried under too much junk to be worth the time
they would take to find it.
3. A variation of item 2 may apply to occassional visitors who
do not spend a large amount of time on the web; they may
conclude that the forum has attracted too many trash dumpers,
making it too time consuming to find pertinent info.
4. Junk posts may also waste the time of people who feel it
necessary to alert newbies that they are junk.
I concur with earlier suggestions to avoid editing the content
of posts, but I do support deletion of junk posts. Where does
one "draw the line"? That's a judgement call. My guess would
be that it can vary as the quantity of junk posts varies:
more junk, more deletions; less junk, fewer deletions. Small
quantities of junk would seem to be just a minor irritant that
would not have the potential of driving away those seeking
info on potential Y2K problems and preparations therefor.
Will there be complaints of "censorship"? You bet; especially
by those who would like to trash this forum. But, others will
also complain, and must not be confused with the former. Even
GIs have been known to disagree with each other from time to
time. :-)
In any case, I want to thank the moderators for taking on what
will be a challenging task.
Jerry
-- Jerry B (skeptic76@erols.com), June 13, 1999.
If no one would respond to posts they find offensive, the posters would quit. Sometimes you can tell from the topic, if so, just pass it. If you can't tell by the topic and open it, and it offends you, just hit back and skip it. I truly believe once they don't have an audience, it will no longer be fun to perform. Attention is their only reward.
-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 13, 1999.
"Even idiots have a point of view and should be allowed to speak,
IMHO."
That does not mean that the IDIOT has a right to dominate the board
with his nonsense, it just reflects my thought that one or two stupid
posts should not lead to instant deletion.
Al-d is over the edge, I think we all agree on that. And there was a
chap who called himself Jerry JJJ!!!JJJ who needed to be shut down.
But I still believe that nincompoops have as much right to their
beliefs about Y2K as the rest of us.
After all, if it was up to Doc Pauley we would ALL be silenced.
-- Unc D (unkeed@yahoo.com), June 13, 1999.
Also, I think that "Sub-genius" A-hole has had his say, not too many
tears would be shed at his demise, I don't think.
Explaining forum abuse is not easy, but I know it when I see it.
-- Unc D (unkeed@yahoo.com`), June 13, 1999.
Please, please clean up the forum. I do not for a moment believe the
disruptors will go away if they are ignored. And I do not believe
there is any such thing as censorship on a privately moderated
forum. I, too, am embarrassed and hesitant to send newbies to this
forum for much needed archival information.
-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), June 13, 1999.
I think just about everyone knows I'm for deletion of objectionable
posts, but thought I'd say it again so you know I haven't changed my
mind.
-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), June 13, 1999.
I agree with Linda A. I am often asked where additional information
about y2k can be found. No longer do I mention this forum. For me,
that says it all.
-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), June 13, 1999.
More and more I'm inclining toward the theory expressed earlier that a large part of our problem is kids out of school crapping around. Have other forums had this problem, and if so, have they been able to do anything about it?
-- Peter Errington (petere@ricochet.net), June 13, 1999.
Good points above. I trust the moderators will do what they think is
best for the forum.
-- Dian (bdp@accessunited.com), June 13, 1999.
Democratic deletion: How about this idea?
If twelve regulars post "delete" as a response to the message, the
moderators might delete a worthless or offensive post. The twelfth
person could email the moderators and list the url for possible
deletion.
This is just an idea. Mileage will vary.
Sincerely,
Stan Faryna
-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), June 13, 1999.
Ya know Stan...I knew there was a reason that I liked you! That's not
a half bad idea, and I will justify it in my Libertarian mind with
the fact that this is not a republic, it is a forum.
See my first vote here:
Deletion needed
Cheers!
Oh, BTW, there is something to be said for that power/corruption
thing. BWWAAAAAHHHAAAAAAHAAAHAAAAAHAAAAA!
-- Unc D (unkeed@yahoo.com), June 13, 1999.
Arlin -- You're asking about my proposed:"Being right is
not mandatory. Being wrong is not a crime."
Translation:
Nobody here has a handle on the Truth
about the consequences of Y2K next year. Therefore any specific
opinion offered here (even mine, even yours) may well be incorrect.
That's not a problem. You don't have to be right to qualify for this
forum. And if you're wrong, someone is very likely to tell you so.
This is not the end of the world. That someone may be wrong too.
Someone else may choose to dispute a statement you've made, or to
contribute a contrasting opinion. Don't panic. Every one of us has
been wrong on occasion. Every one of us has encountered disagreement.
This is a dialog here, not a class in political correctness. There is
no Voice in the burning bush telling you what you must do or think.
This forum tries to maintain certain standards of civil discourse, as
set forth above. Disagreements on matters of fact should be backed up
with logic or opposing facts. If someone else has an opinion you
don't agree with, so what? Personal abuse is not dialog, it is
offensive, and won't be tolerated.
Hope this helps... seems kinda wordy though.
-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), June 14, 1999.
If we could move the forum to Usenet, we would have the ability to properly thread and selectively eliminate postings (through newsreaders). Remarq (www.remarq.com) and Deja (www.deja.com) would provide the indexing and searching capabilities. And it would cost nothing. What's wrong with this?
-- cby (cbyrne98@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Can threads, or individual postings, be moved from one Greenspun forum
to another?
If so, create a "Not the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000)" forum and export all
offending items there. Or repost the items where they're more
appropriate -- many off-topic threads in this forum would fit in just
fine in other Greenspun fora.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
What, like this anti-free speech diatribe No Spam???
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
... and what "anti-free speech diatribe" would that be?
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
"many off-topic threads in this forum would fit in just fine in other
Greenspun fora."
The anti-free speech one that you wish to create...
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
Andy,
No one's preventing you from taking your off-topic threads to another
forum. You can even start your own forum and speak all you want
there?
"Free speech" does not mean you have the right to post whatever you
want wherever you want with no restrictions. Your accusations of
"anti-free speech" are either ignorant or deceptive.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Give us a really good reason why having your own forum where you could
post as much as you wanted, for all to see who wanted to see, would
not constitute free speech.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
In a recent thread the new forum censors said:
Agree. Is everyone tired of trolls yet? Had enough freedom of
speech. Going to keep
yelling censorship even when there is none? Can we delete the
trash now? Your forum
too.
Comments or suggestions welcome.
-- Time Bomb 2000 Mod Team (y2ktimebomb2000@yahoo.com), June 13, 1999.
How very, very smooth. These new thought police have played the last
weeks events on this forum like
true pros. When accused of censorship they get very quiet.
Tweedle dee gets tweedle dum to make
a public statement but still no admitting of errors. Mutha made a post
to
the bottom of
this thread that went unanswered. Now this shit from the new
sysops.
To steal Bigdogs phrase "have you stopped beating your wife yet". They
let the assanine continue
just so they can say "see?!...is this what you want?"
Then they get everyone to chime in with
"please, please save the forum" so that their new "police tactics" are
ratified by the regulars.
I wonder how many "regular" doomers are doing the poster
impersonations? just to "help" the rest
"decide" that something "needs to be done"?
It will start out
with deleting the nonsense posts that everyone agrees on. Then it will
switch to the ones that the "inner circle"
decides "they" don't like. Anything that could cause the "stumbling"
of one new to the y2k religion.
Congrats to tweedle dee (sysop #1)! you are masterful at this. Ed
couldn't have chosen a better successor.
Long live the Kult!
(THIS MESSAGE WILL MOST LIKELY BE DELETED)
-- Super Polly (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Super Polly,
Okay, you can have your own forum, too, where you can post anything
and everything you want to. Is that not free speech?
Or do you, as perhaps Andy does, confuse "free speech" with "right to
have a tolerant audience for whatever I want to say"?
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
"... in a large forum whose popularity was built upon the efforts of
others"?
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Andy,
No one's preventing you from taking your off-topic threads to another
forum.
******* au contraire my feline friend, off topic in YOUR eyes maybe,
foe others ON topic.
case in point - I just posted a piece on Nostradamus - now many
consider this to be off topic, including no doubt yourself, this
forum has a history of prophecy threads and many of us enjoy applying
y2k to the old prophecies.
I notice you waded in this evening on this so-call off topic
thread..... *******
You can even start your own forum and speak all you want there?
******* What, and not be able to banter with you? Hey, it's my ball
and I'm taking it away... Hey, this game was my idea and I don't like
the way you're playing it, why don't you go away...
Come on No Spam... *******
"Free speech" does not mean you have the right to post whatever you
want wherever you want with no restrictions. Your accusations of
"anti-free speech" are either ignorant or deceptive.
******* Free speech means what it says. treat people like adults and
they usually respond as such. the moderator can delete obscene posts
- I trust the moderator to have the good sense to do that.
No more rules. It's worked up to now, if people stopped panicking it
would settle back into its ebb and flow... *******
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Give us a really good reason why having your own forum where you
could post as much as you wanted, for all to see who wanted to see,
would not constitute free speech.
******* one reason. I've been posting here for quite a while with no
major problems. Why should I be forced out to keep you happy? get
real. this is an important concept that many would be happy to see
abolished. then we're back to totalitarianism. who wants that?
*******
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
Andy,
Please c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y reread my request.
"Give us a really good reason why having your own forum where you
could post as much as you wanted, for all to see who wanted to see,
would not constitute free speech."
My request does not mention forcing you out of any other forum.
>Why should I be forced out to keep you happy?
Quit dodging the question, Andy. Is there a really good reason why
having your own forum where you could post as much as you wanted, for
all to see who wanted to see, would not constitute free speech?
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
You are being disingenuous as usual no spam, please spare me the
klintonesque semantics.
You wouldn't know free speech if it hit you on your lobotomy scar.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
Andy,
Quit being a weasel, Andy. Answer the question.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Good idea No Sperm! Then I could be just like minny soda smith and
post links to MY FORUM on every other thread here. And Andy could do
the same. And then Flint and then will and then Ray.
Gee, that wouldn't bury this forum at all would it? THANKS FOR THE
IDEA!
-- Super Polly (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
>klintonesque
Actually, it's a Libertarian argument.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Super Polly,
Answer the question.
"Okay, you can have your own forum, too, where you can post anything
and everything you want to. Is that not free speech?"
Quit dodging. What's your answer?
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
I'll answer the question when you have your lobo reversed, uh, if
it's not too late :)
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
Andy and Super Polly,
Just so there's no misunderstanding: Having your own forum means you
run it and you decide the rules, if any, and you decide what
restrictions, if any, to place on postings by yourself or anyone else.
Now, answer the questions.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Andy, you are demonstrating here for all to see that you are an
intellectual coward.
Answer the question.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Ok brain fade, you are IMPLYING that I have no welcome here, that I
post spurious rubbish, that I add nothing, that I have never done so
and that I am a total waste of space and a miserable excuse for a
brain cell...yes or no?
So you want me to open my own forum and talk to myself in the mirror?
Ok ok I geddit now.
Yoo're not anti-free speech at all.... DOPE SLAP TO THE HEAD! DOH!!
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
hmmm, No Sperm. I'll answer if you answer me this: Does MY forum start
out with censorship, or do I wait until a poster I really don't like
says something, then insert my own opinion into there post? and can I
just ignore what happens afterwards behind my anonymous sysop status?
-- Super Polly (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Andy,
Answer the question.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
I've answered it brain of the bronx, are you too dense to comprehend
my answer to you?
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
Super Polly,
>I'll answer if you answer me this: Does MY forum start out with
censorship,
I've already answered that question:
"Having your own forum means you run it and you decide the rules, if
any, and you decide what restrictions, if any, to place on postings by
yourself or anyone else."
YOU decide whether your forum starts out with censorship.
>or do I wait until a poster I really don't like says something, then
insert my own opinion into there post?
I've already answered that question.
YOU DECIDE whether to wait until a poster you really don't like says
something, then insert your own opinion into their post. It's your
forum, your decision, your responsibility.
>can I just ignore what happens afterwards behind my anonymous sysop
status?
I've already answered that question.
IT'S YOUR FORUM. YOU DECIDE.
Now, answer my questions.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Andy,
Is there a really good reason why having your own forum where you
could post as much as you wanted, for all to see who wanted to see,
would not constitute free speech?
You have not yet answered this question, and you know it. You are
trying to weasel out of answering this question.
Answer it, Andy.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Andy,
>you are IMPLYING that I have no welcome here, that I post spurious
rubbish, that I add nothing, that I have never done so and that I am a
total waste of space and a miserable excuse for a brain cell...yes or
no?
No.
Please stop the rhetorical trickery, Andy.
>So you want me to open my own forum and talk to myself in the mirror?
That's up to you.
Answer my question, Andy.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
I am beginning to see why Mutha gets so frustrated with this place.
Sarcasm is lost on the dense.
Simpletons.
-- Super Troll (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Not wasting any more bandwidth here talking to a simpleton - you win,
I HAVE FAILED TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.
I cannot answer it. I am an abject and complete failure, I now see
the light...
You ARE CORRECT...
I CAN OPEN MY OWN FORUM and DO AS I PLEASE :)
If I do so then you have stifled my free speech on THIS forum no?
Because THIS forum may or may not live up to MY standards of free
speech...
Are you too thick to comprehend any of this no spam?
Look at the greenspun stats page and the number of fora at the bottom
that get hits once in a blue moon... So you would be happy for myself
and super polly to reside at the bottom with our two little fora???
I rather think you would.
In London's Hyde Park there is a cherished spot that I ALWAYS visit
when I go home called "Speakers Corner" where you can pretty much say
what you like on your soapbox as long as it is not downright obscene.
The cops, who walk by on their beat every now and then, very rarely
arrest anyone - because it is self-moderating and IT WORKS :)
Don't go there meer cat because you wouldn't like it, you would feel
threatened and confused and angry and rather stupid.
Why? Because you DO NOT BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH - THAT is quite
apparent.
Offski!
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
El lobotomita,
These were your exact words earlier...
""Give us a really good reason why having your own forum where you
could post as much as you wanted, for all to see who wanted to see,
would not constitute free speech."
My request does not mention forcing you out of any other forum."
I have just CREATED another Forum - JUST to keep YOU happy.
It is a mirror site of this one.
You are happy now - no?
I am happy, because you have not forced me to curtail my posts to
your rather rigid view of the world AS WE KNOW IT.
The forum I created satisfies your criteria - no?
Then to hell with you - free speech wins :)
(You will find the mirror fora at
www.speakerscorner.uk.org.~NSisawanker)
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
What a cowardly posting, Andy.
>you win, I HAVE FAILED TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.
I prefer that you answer it.
>I cannot answer it.
I doubt that.
>I am an abject and complete failure,
Rhetorical trickery.
>I now see the light... You ARE CORRECT...
>I CAN OPEN MY OWN FORUM and DO AS I PLEASE :)
Okay. If you do that, does that constitute free speech?
>If I do so then you have stifled my free speech on THIS forum no?
NO. What a cowardly rhetorical attempt.
Your opening your own forum and doing as you please [in that forum, I
presume is meant] does not say anything at all about THIS forum. Your
attempt to portray freedom in another forum as a stifling of your free
speech in this forum is despicable. Do you have the courage to
honestly face the actual question I ask you?
>Because THIS forum may or may not live up to MY standards of free
speech...
So what? My question does not involve THIS forum.
>Are you too thick to comprehend any of this no spam?
I comprehend quite well that you are continuing to try to weasel out
of answering my question.
>Look at the greenspun stats page and the number of fora at the bottom
that get hits once in a blue moon...
So what? My question does not concern any of those fora.
>So you would be happy for myself and super polly to reside at the
bottom with our two little fora???
No.
>I rather think you would.
If that is an honest expression of your thought, you are wrong. I
wouldn't. But my question does not concern whether you reside at the
bottom of anything. I can see that you are acting as though you are
afraid of giving a straight answer to my question.
>Don't go there meer cat because you wouldn't like it, you would feel
threatened and confused and angry and rather stupid.
That is a slimy slander, Andy. You are trying yet another rhetorical
trick in order to escape giving an honest answer to my question.
>Because you DO NOT BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH - THAT is quite apparent.
Yes, I do believe in free speech. Do you have the courage to answer
my question about it, or will you continue dodging and twisting and
evading?
My question, for any who need a refresher, is: "Is there a really good
reason why having your own forum where you could post as much as you
wanted, for all to see who wanted to see, would not constitute free
speech?" You, Andy, are expending a large number of words in
attempting to evade answering that question.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
If i spend any more time trying to get though your thick (apart from
one crucial spot) skull I fear that I will self-induce my own mini
lobo, Soooo, I'm outta here, have fun going around in circles el
lobomiinutiaea,
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
Andy,
>""Give us a really good reason why having your own forum where you
could post as much as you wanted, for all to see who wanted to see,
would not constitute free speech."
>My request does not mention forcing you out of any other forum."
So? What is your answer to that request/question?
>I have just CREATED another Forum - JUST to keep YOU happy.
I never asked you to create another forum. I asked you to answer a
question.
>It is a mirror site of this one.
Well, then apparently that other forum does not match the conditions
of my question, if being a mirror site of this one means that the
other one is not entirely "your own" forum.
>You are happy now - no?
Not with regard to my repeated requests that you answer the question
I've asked you: "Is there a really good reason why having your own
forum where you could post as much as you wanted, for all to see who
wanted to see, would not constitute free speech?"
>The forum I created satisfies your criteria - no?
I don't know. Is it entirely your forum, where you could post as much
as you wanted, for all to see who wanted to see?
If so, does that constitute free speech for you?
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
If i spend any more time trying to get though your thick (apart from
one crucial spot) skull I fear that I will self-induce my own mini
lobo, Soooo, I'm outta here, have fun going around in circles el
lobominutiaea,
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
P.S.
It's LIMEY slander, not slimy slander :)
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
***MMOOOOOMMMMMM!!!**
-- The (kids@wont.behave), June 14, 1999.
Lets Get Ready To RUUUUUUMMMMBBBUUUUUUULLLLLL!!
TO: Andy and No-Spam
FROM: Observing lurker
SUBJECT: Difference of Opinion
It appears that you two are about ready to go 15 at this point. Your
back and forths,however heated, have not plummeted to the level of
trash that this thread is addressing (IMHO). I agree with many who
have placed their confidence in the moderators in regards to
monitoring postings. The heated retorts on both sides of the issues
are what MAKE this forum one of the top Y2K info sites. I suspect
that there are many like myself who read every posting in the hopes
that additional information will be gleaned. There are obviously some
heavyweight minds at work here on both sides of the Y2K fence. This
site is a goldmine of information and some LOL humor as a bonus. I
wish sometimes that I could contribute some pearl of Y2K wisdom, but
alas I am but a learner not a teacher. All I ask as I roam through
these great postings is not to be assaulted by some of the out and
out trash that is cluttering these pages. Hopefully, I will one day
soon be in a position to GIVE knowledge as well.
-- Iben (lurking@work.sum), June 14, 1999.
Andy wrote:
"In London's Hyde Park there is a cherished spot that I ALWAYS visit
when I go home called "Speakers Corner" where you can pretty much say
what you like on your soapbox as long as it is not downright obscene.
The cops, who walk by on their beat every now and then, very rarely
arrest anyone - because it is self-moderating and IT WORKS :)"
Very rarely??? I once knew someone who used to do that beat for
the Metropolitan Police. There was hardly a Sunday when someone
didn't get hauled off to make an appearance on Monday at Bow
Street magistrates. I remember some years ago quite a bit of stuff
in the newspapers - groups of organised hecklers were turning up to
systematically disrupt Christian and black speakers with all
sorts of juvenile abuse. Even Lord Soper, who had been preaching
there for 70 years, complained in the House of Lords. As kids we
used to go just to watch the punch ups. I often wondered what the
Burberry (US tourists) crowd made of it all.
Perhaps what No Spam is suggesting, Andy, is that at least you get
your own soapbox for your OT stuff. And while your at it, do me a
favour and link to your cut and paste stuff rather than bunging
the whole lot into the post. Sorry Andy, but for low-budget lurkers
like me it's infuriating to have to download these megathreads.
Come on Andy, get that site/soapbox together. It's just a click away
...and I promise I'll pop by once a week to check out your OT
musings.
Just trying to join the dots together ...cby
-- cby (cbyrne98@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Why don't you group of kindergartners wake up and QUIT ANSERING THE
TROLLS!!!!!!!! IGNORE THEM and they will go away!!!!! Are you that
stupid???
-- WAKE UP (Solution@GETit for once.com), June 14, 1999.
Ain't gonna happen, upgrade my son, upgrade!
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
No, they WON'T go away, cuz they ain't that BORED yet!
-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
You moron.... They will go away!!! IGNORE THEM
-- aaa (11111@222.com), June 14, 1999.
Back to the original question:
Yes, let's get a little control over the mess.
Do NOT edit. Leave it whole or take it out.
Delete very sparingly.......
-- Jon Williamson (jwilliamson003@sprintmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Hummn.
Take a day off and see what happens. Sheesh!
What a difference an annoying troll makes, eh?
BTW, since ya all know I love a good hotlink, just look at how Forum
opinion was over the time since Ed left, and think about how its
changed now.
Good, I say. And about time.
Diane
BTW, a few refresher hotlinks...
Please Don't Cancell This Forum (May 29, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000t9P
New sysop/moderators being organized for this forum (Ed Yourdon--May
31, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000tNe
Y2K essays, links and resources remain on my site, for now... (Ed
Yourdon--May 31, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000tNi
Question: About the TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) Forum & Changes (Forum
Moderation Team Member--May 31, 1999 )
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000tPe
Strange Personal Life Goals of the Polly/Troll (June 04, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000ub0
Should Folks That Post Here With Other Forum Posters Handles......
(June 05, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000uoH
NOTICE: To Forum Posters Re: Trolls and Moderation (Time Bomb 2000
Sysop--June 06, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000uxC
NOTICE TO FORUM SYSOP(S) (Hardliner--June 06, 1999 )
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000v0I
A Time For Cool Heads On The Forum And ... (BigDog--June 08, 1999 )
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000vWD
A Few Comments About the Recent Events on the Forum (Sysop #2--June
09, 1999 )
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000vkF
(OT) Big Brother is you! (OT) (Unc D--June 09, 1999 )
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000vkf
why's everyone arguing? (June 10, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000w50
As an indicator of just HOW interested regular posters are about
staying on Y2K issues see also...
Paging Yourdonites For Chat On Various Subjects (BigDog--June 02, 1999
)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000tv3
Paging Yourdonites About Possible Chat Subjects (BigDog--June 03,
1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000u8R
And...
Would it be possible to make this two forums? (June 10, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000wEF
In a word... YES. One on preparation and advice, heavily moderated,
and this original, lightly moderated.
A group is working on it.
Then, compare and contrast that with KNOWN TROLLS, hecklers and
general distuptors, posting under numerous interconnected names
(behind-the-scenes), yelling the LOUDEST about censorship and
editing... and playing upon those FEARS, I might add...
GNIABFI says this forum is self destructing (humor) (June 06, 1999 )
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000uuC
Been away for a while, who's cpr and why is he/she keeping a list?
(June 06, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000uvI
I do not post under another name (Cherri--June 06, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000v3T
Note: Maybe yes... maybe no.
If you check the Debunker site--because they show each posters ISP
codes--youll find Cherri and Mutha share the same one, slight
variation. Also two separate moderators watched late one night, when
VERY few were posting, myself included, the Recent Answers area.
We each, independently, just sat there hitting the Reload/Refresh
button looking at the top thread at checked it, and the bottom of the
thread, to see who posted the most recent comment... Mutha.
Wait a minute... hit Reload... new thread... Mutha.
Wait a minute... hit Reload... new thread... Cherri.
Wait a minute... hit Reload... new thread... Mutha.
Nuf said.
Can it be true? has this forum sunk to censorship? (serious topic)
(Regular--at@the.forum--June 06, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000uvp
Yeah, right. A VERY REGULAR TROLL!! (One of many).
Censorship. Yea right (Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts--June 06, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000v6Y
Church or School? (Decker--June 07, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000vBM
A Response to Chuck RE: Forum Censorship (and an offer you can't
refuse!) (Mutha-June 08, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000vet
Warning: "Debunking Y2K" site now IDing and threatening its posters
(June 09, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000w0m
Finally...
Hey all you ex-"GNIABFI" posters with potty mouths: (June 13, 1999)
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000wrR
Nice try, Debunker and GNIABFI dudes, dudettes and trolls... but
no cigar.
-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.
BTW, Im willing to also go on record and state, as many others
already have, that Im ALSO on the Forum Moderators team!
So there. What a long strange trip its been.
Here ya go trolls...
Another TARGET. (Do your darndest!)
Fortunately, most the Y2K regulars KNOW what is important... with five
and a half months and counting...
PREPARING for the great Y2K unknowable. So, lets get on with
it!
Shift happens.
Diane, still a 5 locally. Globally... ranging between 1 thru 10 in
unknowable places!
BTW, Questions anyone?
For the trolls... bottom line... its still about Y2K and ALL its
ramifications... and so is the Time Bomb 2000 Forum!
Go team!
-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.
Thanks, Diane.
Although Mutha & Cherri are very disparate personalities.
Maybe they work at the same place.
-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), June 14, 1999.
See also...
How Der Boonkah deals with unwanted posts
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000x4K
Or go direct (look but dont post or youll go into cprs files)...
http://
www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb237006&MyNum=
929345272&P=No&TL=929345272
I think Mutha was right about the swamp
Monday, 14-Jun-1999 03:27:52
206.55.157.107 writes:
They are making there move to start censorship in earnest. Is anyone
else going to save old "prediction" threads to throw in there faces
later? I think the new censors will just start deleting the ones that
are to embarrassing or re-wording them to get the poster off the hook.
Super Polly
Question, Super Polly a.k.a. lots of other well known trolls...
If a diligent group of researchers was to make a study of all the
Debunker posters using your clearly logged ISP, what common
interconnections do you THINK they would find?
Hummmn?
STOP THE TROLLING. ITS NOT CENSORSHIP TO JUST CLEAN UP TRASH
POSTINGS OR COMPLETELY WORTHLESS DRIBBLE.
Give up that meme please, its old, tired and quite untrue.
Diane, one of many TBY2K Forum Moderators
-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.
What I think you will find, Queen bitch of a thousand posts, is
exactly what I want you to find.
You really should become a little more tech savy before you open your
stupid mouth.
-- Super Polly/Troll (Fu_Q_y2kfreaks@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Super Polly, please don't be Mutha. I
couldn't bear that.
-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), June 14, 1999.
Super Polly/Troll/Mutha Nachu once again shows s/he's interested in
heckling and disruption.
-- (preparing@but.hopeful), June 14, 1999.
Super Polly/Troll,
Your continuing dribble is a waste of good energy. Go home please.
Diane
See also...
Announcement: Just One More Forum Moderator Logging In
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
000xBl
-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.
For Diane,
You need to learn that comparing IP addresses won't tell you much.
For all, whatever you do with the forum, post the rules clearly. That
way, those of us who believe in free speech won't bother coming here
any more.
-- freedom (@@@.@), June 14, 1999.
True... freedom (@@@.@) a.k.a. Buddy from DC,
But what the Moderators, actually Syop(s) can tell, if they even
bother to waste time looking because they are SICK and TIRED of the
continued heckling... is all the interrelated names that one person
posts under coming in on that ISP. Like you.
You want a personal run down or will you just run back to the Debunker
site and stay there... please.
And yes, we will post the GUIDELINES clearly, once we have hashed 'em
out, and probably change 'em when the regulars "thunk a spell on 'em."
Diane
(RULES? Doan wan no stinkin "rules" man).
-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.
cby (cbyrne98@hotmail.com),
>Perhaps what No Spam is suggesting, Andy, is that at least you get
your own soapbox for your OT stuff.
No, cby, that is NOT what I am suggesting.
I have written very plainly and straight-out what I want: I want Andy
to answer the question I posed to him.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
i already answered it in many varieties of FREE SPEECH, two short...
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), June 14, 1999.
cby (cbyrne98@hotmail.com),
For Andy and Super Polly, or anyone else who argues as they do,
answering the questions I posed to them present great intellectual
danger.
That is why Andy goes to such great lengths to twist and turn and
evade and avoid answering.
That is why Super Polly, after promising to answer my question if I
answered his/hers, has not fulfilled his/her end of that promise after
I fulfilled mine.
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
Andy,
Oh? What was your answer? Yes? or No?
-- No Spam Please (nos_pam_please@hotmail.com), June 14, 1999.
I resent being called a troll by you, Diane. Why? because I disagree
with you? Because I am at least willing to entertain the thought that
someone who has a different viewpoint might have valuable information?
Because I asked a question about the accusation of censorship? This
makes me a troll? Or is it because I use the anonymiser to log in
here? Does that make my questions less valuable, because I value my
privacy? What business is it of yours what ISP I use to ask my
questions? You have become very closed minded. You and this forum. I
used to able to learn here. Now I am called a troll. Thank you very
much.
-- Regular (at@the.forum), June 15, 1999.
There's a difference between sharing a different viewpoint and
heckling.
-- Another Regular (at@the.forum), June 15, 1999.
STOP THE TROLLING. ITS NOT CENSORSHIP TO JUST CLEAN
UP TRASH POSTINGS OR COMPLETELY WORTHLESS DRIBBLE.
Give up that meme please, its old, tired and quite untrue.
Diane, one of many TBY2K Forum Moderators
-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 14, 1999.
After reading the shit posted here this weekend by extremists that is
left for all to see, I think those are the most hipocritical words
ever spoken by a moderator of any debate.
Suggestion for lurkers and those new to BB's; DON'T POST HERE OR YOU
WILL BE TRACKED.
-- anonymouse (can'tfind@me.suckers), June 21, 1999.
Moderation questions? read the FAQ