Preparations for Martial Law ..... ????

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Preparations for Martial Law

Newsgroups: comp.software.year-2000, misc.survivalism (via J.O Grabbe)

June 11, 1999 (?) Timothy C. May

Preparations for Martial Law

From: Tim May
Newsgroups: comp.software.year-2000, misc.survivalism
Subject: Martial Law rumors, and one gun store owner

I was in looking at assault rifles today at one of my local gun stores (looking at an FAL parts gun, comparing it the HK91 parts/clone gun I bought a week ago). I got to talking to the owner, and Y2K came up.

His store is in an area with several DOD installations and he has many customers who are either active military or retired military. And some CIA spooks. I once met one of the CIA spooks in the store....we had been jawboning about which of the 50 BMG rifles was best, the Barrett or one of the several others, for ultra-long-range sniping. Then the store owner casually mentioned that "Fred" had been in the CIA. Out on a medical disability, and living in the Monterey area.

(The area is in the Monterey-Pacific Grove-Carmel area. The DOD installations include: The Naval Postgraduate School, the Fort Ord base (now being closed), the Defense Language Institute, and some Navy undersea warfare think tanks. Also, some CIA-affiliated think tanks (suspected: Monterey Institute for International Studies). CIA spooks visit the area, and his store, for various reasons. I surmise that he supplies some of the folks down at Camp Roberts and Camp Hunter Liggett. Viewers of some Tom Clancy movies will recognize this is where snipers and special forces get training.)

Here's the bombshell: He told me that "more than one" of his best longterm customers, with affiliations to these aforementioned groups, have told him of a plan for a "quick response" imposition of martial law. "72 hours." The date he heard from some of them was December 1st. To disburse the troops and have martial law in place in 72 hours. By December 4th, in other words.

The idea for the timing, presumably, being that it will be clear by then just how many nations, companies, and agencies are not going to be ready. And enough time for the soldiers to integrate with the rail and utility distributions, perhaps for ration coupon books to be printed and available by January 1st, etc. All those things the Naval War College seminars were running scenarios about. (Links between Naval Postgraduate School and Naval War College? Presumably. Whether they are significant links is for researchers out there to look into. Would be interesting to see if NPS folks were at the NWC seminars, and vice versa. And I'm not saying Monterey and the NPS is somehow the epicenter of martial law planning for Y2K...the actual centers are presumably in or near Washington, D.C. But links are still interesting.)

He didn't say his sources _knew_ that martial law was going to be implemented, but that the sources had seen plans for possible implementation. Now this could just be the usual rumor mill process. But to lend some plausibility to this tidbit, this area is a hotbed of certain kinds of counterinsurgency warfare (Fort Ord had been a major center of this, now moved up to Washington State somewhere--Fort Lewis, I think. But many of the staffers remained or retired in the Monterey-Carmel-Pebble Beach area, and they hear things. And the think tanks are where such plans are often formulated and "gamed."

Monterey, perhaps not coincidentally, was one of the sights for that recent "urban assault" exercise which got so much attention a couple of months ago. (Soldiers rolling down the city streets in Bradley Fighting Vehicles, being mock-fought by urban guerillas who looked suspicially like militia members defending their communtiies. Coincidence? The planners are here. The exercise was here.)

This guy, owning one of the main gun stores in the whole area, comes into contact with a lot of them.

Take it as you will.

By the way, this guy had some experiences to tell of past civil disturbances. He was a young gun store clerk in Stockton, CA when the 1967 Watts riots in L.A. erupted. Pockets of rioting had also appeared in other cities, including Stockton, in the Central Valley. (Stockton now has a serious gang problem, and many murders each year.) The local cops lent him a Thompson submachine gun! My, how things have changed. He knew how to use one, for various reasons. He never had to use it, but he slept in the store with that Thompson nearby. A couple of years later, in some other riots, the cops lent him a BAR.

(It used to be common, by the way, for police departments to have one or more old Thompsons sitting in storage lockers, for special uses. Now, of course, they are likely to be AR-15-pattern rifles or carbines, or H & K MP5s. The usual S.W.A.T. gear. And they no longer lend these things out to gun store owners!)

Fast forwarding to today, he anticipates there could be serious riots, even without Y2K bugs being as bad as some expect. "These clowns are just itching to live out their fantasyland lives."

He isn't sure yet what his strategy will be to defend his store this time around, but he _is_ glad he has a place in the nearby mountains with a running water stream through the land, a woodstove with a couple of cords of wood, his various rifles, and a bunch of friends in the ranching country of Steinbeck Country who he will join forces with.

Anyway, I thought these were interesting tidbits. Kind of like Cory's "geekvine" news from those in the programming trenches.

It sure looks to me like military planners are preparing martial law contingency plans. I know I won't let the happytalkers with their talk of how Russia is now approaching 90% completion (of what, their first Five Year Plan?) deter me from adding to my stockpiles. "Don't leave home" remains the core of my plan, and martial law is not a good environment to be leaving home in.

Do unto Spike Lee as he would have done unto Charlton Heston

- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

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Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 11, 1999

Answers

Ray,

Good post, thanks. Right now, all we can get is the anecdotal evidence of preparation for martial law, but I think this scenario is a "no brainer" for later this year. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. It seems to me that the big cities will have to call for martial law to control the problems, and from there it is only one step to national callout. Perhaps it will just be part of a declared national emergency, but somehow it will come to pass, I think. Actually, this would go down as proper contingency planning if we all trusted and loved our supreme leader. As it is, it will be a crap shoot as to whether it helps or harms those outside the cities. Personally, what with the current administration attitude about guns, I expect to see an order to all the police departments to round up all guns they have records for, as part of the national emergency, executive orders, martial law. That will turn out to be interesting, and we will see if there is any deep seated resistance to such a move as it unfolds. If most of us still have the basic genes that came ashore here 200+ years ago, we will resist being disarmed by the King.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), June 11, 1999.


Gordon commented:

"If most of us still have the basic genes that came ashore here 200+ years ago, we will resist being disarmed by the King. "

Gordon, I believe that these genes are still hanging around, just a matter of awakening them out of a long and deep sleep

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), June 11, 1999.


"Fast forwarding to today, he anticipates there could be serious riots, even without Y2K bugs being as bad as some expect. "These clowns are just itching to live out their fantasyland lives."

Could not agree more. I'm sure many are just waiting for the right opportunity to flip the switch and go full tilt.

Ray, I agree that the genes are there. The problem is there are so many different agendas out there, so many factions, groups, etc. I don't think they'll all be working together, at least in the beginning.

I'd like to hope that the government sees the light and respects the liberty and freedom of the individual. If that isn't the case then the great experiment is over.

No wonder we're being trolled for intelligence info...

Mike ============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), June 11, 1999.


Naturally I would not be happy about martial law, but having said that, I can tell you with certainty that I would welcome martail law if it meant keeping some of the less savory trouble makers from trying to institute their own law of "shoot and grab.." I'm a lot more worried about road raiders, malcontents, and criminals than I am the NG, or other law enforcement types.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), June 11, 1999.

Interesting you should say that stuff was coming up Seattle way.

I really feel odd saying this but - i say my first black helicopter two nights ago, flying from SW to NE over Bothell, Wa. There was enough light to make out any kind of mrkings or anything that might have been on the side - but nothin'.

I stood there and wondered who I would tell this to and keep any degree of credibility up here - those kind of stories come from the Southwest - (apologies to those "non-wacko's" in the SW. :) )

this is far too numbing and yet interesting to think about. I've heard from a U-Haul owner that a lot of hi-tech people are leaving the area. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Oh Well, just when I thought the NW would be immune!

Robert

-- Same as B4 (NWphotog@Foxcomm.net), June 11, 1999.



I have a small 308 semiautomatic handgun that can be hidden in a small holster or pocket and I do not intent to get a permit for it and let the authorities know that I have it. A permit is required to carry a gun in this state (Florida). Can a person carry a concealed weapon on his own property without a permit? This would be strictly a self protection plan and it would be difficult for the authorities to claim that I intended to commit criminal activity against others on my own property but the law works in strange ways. Does anyone know if there is a risk in this plan? No one would even know it was there unless it was needed.

-- Curious (curious@bb.gom), June 11, 1999.

As far as I know about Georgia, you can only carry a handgun on your body if it's in a side arm holster in your belt or the under-the-arm strap holster. Any other way of carrying a gun is illegal even on your own property. That is GA. I guess the thinking is that your allowed to have a pistol in your own house and carry it, but you have to give fair warning that you have it to authorites by carrying it openly. You can keep a handgun in your vehicle either in the glovebox or laying *out in the open* on your front seat. Either way you'd better be careful you don't get stopped by a nervous cop. About obtaining a permit... I'd be willing to wager you bought the gun on the up and up, if so your already on the files. Even the gun show guys are doing this more frequently nowadays to make sure that they don;t get inadvertantly traced to a gun used in a criminal act. If your gun is unregistered totally then make sure it doesn't have a "history". You never know where your gun has been. You might be making more trouble for yourself owning a fraudulent gun if it was at one time used to put the finishing touches on an an armed robbery or maybe the gun is stolen from a gun store , etc. Me? I'm a registered gun owner and proud of it. If they try to come for my piece they had better have some darn convincing evidence that we don't need the 2nd Amendment anymore.

-- (workathome@atl.ga), June 11, 1999.

As far as the black helecopters in the Woodenville/Bothel area....the Snohomish Co. Sheriff dept. has two. I've seen them fly over that area often. The reason they are black is due to the budget impact of a professional aircraft paint job (we're talking 3 to 5 thousand when you include the lettering and pretty colors). I know a few of the county boys and they have wished to have them painted...but they wished harder for (and got) well deserved pay increases. take care ben (p.s. I know many of county boys are personally preparing for serious situations come 2000.)

-- ben tolson (bent@premier1.net), June 11, 1999.

I don't see anything that makes me want to modify my precious metals stockpiling plan. I plan to stockpile lead...

You know, cast fishing sinkers, dive weights, jig heads, stuff like that...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), June 12, 1999.


Ben and Robert -

King County also has a black helicopter - for reason's stated. Cost.

Timing of the alleged martial law calendar is also interesting in that there will be a very large international trade conference in Seattle with delegates starting to arrive sometime after Thanksgiving. If martial law is in effect, it will be very interesting to say the least since there will be a lot of world leaders in Seattle for the conference which I think I read starts the 4th or 5th of December. Think I read Clinton (or Gore?) will be here as well as Gates and some other prominent industry heads (heads of AOL, Oracle, Intel, Boeing, Wall Street biggies all come to mind - it will be quite an impressive get together). Sound like a security nightmare to me - especially that time of year...

-- Valkyrie (anon@please.net), June 12, 1999.



Robert - NOAA National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration has black helicopters. We had them fly one of our rivers supposedly checking out fire load in conjunction with GPS mapping without pre-warning to the county and caused a big stir. NMFS (National Marine Fisheries Service) is a branch of NOAA and if you have any anadromous fish, they may be doing videography, temperature or vegetative studies. I don't know if NOAA copters are marked, however, but presume so.

Helicopters are also used in commercial logging where soil compaction or road building is being avoided.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), June 12, 1999.


For what it's worth, I was listening to an interveiw of a guy who was in the Joint Cheifs of Staff (retired) and among other things, he said that the feds have locked up the Natl. Guards ammo (for safekeeping from "terrorist") and the guard will be ambushed by ? UN Troops? Black OPS? and the blame will be put on the militias. This (about the ammo)might be verified if anyone knows people in tha Guard

-- KoFE (Your@town.USA), June 12, 1999.

Back in February or so, many states made statements that they would deploy the National Guard, just in case.

My understanding is almost all types of Martial Law are to be enacted by the Governor of the State.

Locally, I recall Kentucky said they would deploy the National Guard and Ohio said they would wait and see. This was in local papers - Cincinnati Post. Worldnet Daily News did a multipiece analysis of preps for martial law. Sorry, no URL.

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), June 12, 1999.


All of those articles, plus much discussion, was posted in the Forum archives. Look under Military, and go back a ways.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 12, 1999.

Uh...I think there are FAA regulations REQUIRING call numbers on any aircraft, be it a plane or a helicopter. A relative of mine owned a private airport, so I think I can say this with some credibility. The black paint isn't the problem, folks.

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), June 13, 1999.


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