Let's say its not a 10, but we know it is not going to be a non event. Let's say its just a depression, like the 1930's with 30 to 40 percent of the people unemployed. For every unemployed person in a community it effects another ten people. You don't use the bakery, you buy the cheap white bread, enough people out of work, it eventually hurts the bakery, who may have to lay off some of their workers. Out of work you dont get your hair done, or your nails, and what about eating out or going to the show. It will have an effect on the bottom line of a lot of bussiness. So how will you eat if your out of work? Y2K may not be an end of the world senerio, the power may not go off, and the banks may still be open, but if you are out of a job, what will those 30 to 40 percent of the people do for food. I think about 99% of the population isn't too worried about Y2K. That leaves a lot of potentially hungry people in 2000. It doesnt have to be the end of the world, just a depression to have a lot of people have their world end.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 08, 1999

Answers

I think its a little easier to have a years supply of food now than to stand in soup lines [if they would be available] next year.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 08, 1999.

"A soldier's way saves the day". For those of you who never went into the service you might remember the old boy scouts motto "be prepared". Hell get downright ingenious if you have to, but if your hungry enough and you have the skills, you can survive. In fact I remember now that story of how Scott O'Grady was shot down over Iraq and how he said that within reason, no one should ever starve in the wild if they know what they are doing. He lived off ants that he picked off an active mound for a while. With a sponge he was able to collect enough water from dew/rain so he was not dehydrated. Not gourmet cuisine but sometimes I wonder what ants taste like anyway. Maybe Y2K will give me the politically correct chance to do it, if everyone else is doing it.

-- (workathome@atl.ga), June 08, 1999.

Under those conditions, I suppose it's possible that those still employed will be able to contribute a lot of rice and beans to charitable organizations. And most likely there would be some government policies enacted to keep farmers producing and get that food distributed.

Despite such efforts, it would not be a pleasant world to live in for anyone. And much less pleasant for the unemployed.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 08, 1999.

Flint, please don't think I'm flaming you, I'm not. Lets say your still working, are you going to buy some beans and rice out of your pocket when you don't know how long you will have your job or how long this depression would last. It would seem better for you to buy some more beans and rice for your family.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 08, 1999.

thinkIcan,

Great Depression, but worse. I can even see a community that can work through a greater depression with better odds (laughing). But this is no laughing matter. Yes, a year's supply of food will help you get by if you can still afford to keep your present home. If not, you may find all your possessions thrown out on the street and being rifled through by the onlookers. Other Y2K preparations may also serve you; the rain harvesting water barrels, oil lamps, wood stove, etc. might help you keep down the water and electric bills. If only you had put in solar! I assume gold and silver coins would help out if they had doubled or tripled in their cash value. Planting all the non-hybrid seeds will help you cut down on the grocery bills. But these kinds of savings seem insignificant if you can't find work or keep a steady job.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), June 08, 1999.

LOL or even better ROTFLMAO "workingathome" I think we would have an awfull lot of unhappy POLLY'S if they had to eat ants for lunch. LOL

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 08, 1999.

thinkican:

Not sure I follow you here. Of course I'm well stocked with rice and beans and *much* more, since I'm planning on feeding my neighbors, whether they're unemployed or whether food shortages happen. I might well be a charitable organization all by myself [grin].

Hopefully, so long as there are embedded systems that need to be repaired, I'll be able to find work. Reverse engineering is a hobby of mine.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 08, 1999.

A minor point: I will not swear to it, but wasn't the peak unemployment rate in the Great Depression about 25%?

my site: www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), June 08, 1999.

Flint----I'm well stocked with rice and beans and "much" more too but ohh how I wish I lived close to you.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 08, 1999.

MinnesotaSmith:

Yes, that's what I've read the peak unemployment was. I guess we're looking here at things being even worse, economy-wise. My own take on y2k is that this is a distressingly likely possibility, at least for a year or two. I don't expect any spectacular overnight collapse. But a long, agonizing slide into misery is a different story.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 08, 1999.

Reverse engineering is a hobby of mine.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 08, 1999.

now I am truly giggling - that's precious!

-- justme (finally@home.com), June 08, 1999.

MinnesotaSmith-----You are propably right, but being a mild Doomer and not a Polly I think the senerio of a Depression [a world one at that] will snowball and we could end up with percentages much much higher than 30 to 40 percent. My Dad went thru the depression in Canada, worked for 25 cents a day, felt lucky to have the job, [building a municipal air port] and every morning he went to work, there were lines of unemployed men hoping to get a days work.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 08, 1999.

Ants taste bad. They are very bitter...

-- (50 caliber@80thIL.1862), June 08, 1999.

workathome:

O'Grady went down over Serbian-held Bosnia, not Iraq! However, I fully agree with the value of fieldcraft skills common to most of our veterans. A positive attitude and a desire to live are the "most important" skills to place at the top of your prep. list.

-- (snowleopard6@webtv.net), June 08, 1999.

workathome- Scott o'Grady was shot down over Bosnia.

-- inthemiddle (inthemiddle84@hotmail.com), June 08, 1999.

Flint gurgled:

Under those conditions, I suppose it's possible that those still employed will be able to contribute a lot of rice and beans to charitable organizations. And most likely there would be some government policies enacted to keep farmers producing and get that food distributed.

That's it. Forum moderators - cut him off. He may become dangerous from this point on.

The answer to your question, thinkican, is that the overwhelming majority of people, most of them dissuaded from preparing by happy faced lunatics like Flint, think that the government will be there to provide for them. Even if they have to confiscate food from those that heeded early warnings and stocked up for their own families.

-- a (a@a.a), June 08, 1999.

'a':

Are you seriously suggesting that under the circumstances described, the government would make no attempt to do anything? (And please note, nowhere did I say the government would *succeed* at anything. I just said they'd enact policies).

If that's what you believe, you must be still repeating kindergarten. Or are you just lashing out at the target your puppet master has pointed you at? In that case, I can only feel sorry for you.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 08, 1999.

MinnesotaSmith and IthinkIcan, I want to tell you a little story about a man I knew that went through the "Great Depresion". It was not a depresion to everyone.

I worked for Allen for a few years, he has ALWAYS had money, his family always had money, he had no common sence but he had money. Allen told me stories of how he couldnt understand what everyone was complaining about, how he didnt remember it being so bad. The one story I remember so well was.....He said "My whole family would go on really nice trips, we would stay at fancy hotels and eat at restrants with crystal, silver, and china. We would sit down to a hudge meal,(he would spred his hands over the entire table) more food than 20 people could eat. It only cost $.25 per person. It was SO cheep. What was everyone complaning about."

I would just casually mention , well Allen, a man would work all day for $.10 - $.25 gladly. Now a man works all day for about what? $50.- $100. I guess that was a pretty expencive meal after all.

He didnt get it. Never did.

I think the very rich and the politician can not/will not understand the suffering they have caused the poor.

Bulldog

-- bulldog (sniffin@around.com), June 08, 1999.

Flint, have you ever heard the term Dead Man Walking? That's what your belief system is becoming. When your reality tunnel comes to an end here shortly, I only hope that your mental health survives.

-- a (a@a.a), June 08, 1999.

fina, 'a', fine. Why don't you run along now and have yourself a nice catastrophe? Or do you think that if your sole 'contribution' to this forum is to heckle me, you can have an even nicer catastrophe? Or do you ever think at all anymore, without checking with Milne? You're starting to sound kind of desperate.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 08, 1999.

What kind of idiot would complain about what Flint wrote on this thread? This isn't second grade here, please quit crying for a moderator everytime you miss understand something and try to contribute instead.

-- BiGG (supersite@acronet.net), June 08, 1999.

Yes Flint, you hit the nail on the head. I am desperate. Desperate to get people to move on preparations. They don't move, Flint, when all they hear is "We don't know" "Progress is being made" "Doomers are nuts" "Three day storm" .

Do you think I want to lose my job? I just got married. Do you think I want to lose my home? I have an elderly widowed mother who lives alone in another city. Do you think I want to see her city burn? I'm in the prime of life. Do you think I want TEOTWAWKI?

Just why do you think I am obsessed with warning people Flint?

Do you Get It yet?

-- a (a@a.a), June 08, 1999.

BiGG:

My guess is that some of our lesser lights here skip the content and look only at the poster's handle. Then they respond purely by reflex. But all any of us can do is our best.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), June 08, 1999.

a:

Congratulations on your marriage. Did you save any of the rice?

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), June 08, 1999.

thinkIcan:

This matter of having a job at the turn of the year has bothered me much, which is why I've been stocking up on food. I'm not convinced I'll be working at the factory next year if the JIT vendors' supplies get stopped by a severe economic bottleneck due to fuel shortages and power grid failures.

The food is my cheap insurance to buffer the weeks I may go without cash while seeking new employment opportunities.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), June 08, 1999.

I hope everybody re-reads what Flint said, "I don't expect any spectacular overnight collapse. But a long, agonizing slide into misery is a different story."

He's obviously expecting the utilities to remain up and running on 1/1/00. I hope he's right, but I doubt it. I can't remember the name but there was LARGE article in the WSJ about an HMO that had a computer problem, it was under billing and over reimbursing for almost a year, but it didn't kill the company's cash flow because their signup rate was so high. Sort of like a ponzie scheme, but unintentional. As soon as the new customer rate stablized, they pancaked. A lot of companies can be fatally wounded by Y2K and it can take months for it to show up on the bottem line or until their cash positions are untenable. Look for a lot of loans to "just get you over this rough spot" which will be money down a rathole. The federal govt. is already planning on this. Moeny will go to companies that are FOB (friends of Bill).

Back to food, Euwell Gibbons was always lampooned on the Johnny Carson show, but one time he was a guest and he came in with a bunch of weeds from the parking lot out side. He then proceeded to tell Johnny what each one was, how to prepare it, and what it was good for. Folks, if you've ever examined the nutrition that is found in dock, lambs quarter, nettles, etc. in comarison to pathetic stuff like iceberg lettuce, it ain't even funny.

People can live a good healthy life if they will abandon their prejudices (yeah I know, when icebergs are spotted floating in the river Styx.....)

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 08, 1999.

"Let them eat weeds", Bill Clinton, Spring 2000

-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), June 08, 1999.

Opps!!! I meant misunderstand in my post above.

-- BiGG (supersite@acronet.net), June 09, 1999.

Join the army. If mre's won't do, there will be plenty of fresh kill. If you think that's sick, then by god go and prepare.Incentives.hmmmm. How many different ways can one suggest the same result of being prepared. Sometimes it takes shock value to work.

-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), June 09, 1999.

I would eat my stored food (supplemented with winter garden) while waiting for my garden and orchard to come on line. I would also eat fresh eggs from my chickens (which I will be feeding coconuts).

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), June 09, 1999.

Mad Monk, Hawaii'ans are so lucky. I would eat a can of food. After I took a crap, I would collect all the flies to attract a lizard, in hopes the lizard could lure a snake for a meal. Then collect maggots from the crap and go catch a few fish with the maggot(s). Eat most of the fish and make fish emulsion with the rest. Put fish emulsion to fertilize a wonderful garden. Tadaaa. Bedtime, obviously jaded from foundation work in the hot sun.

-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), June 09, 1999.

A case senerio for a depression Y2K style is much easier to visualize than the grid going done, or a bank failure. But a Y2K type depression will be a TEOTWAWKI because it will be world wide. Everyone seems to think it won't happen here but it is going to happen over there. Its interesting to note that after over 30 posts on this subject not a single "Polly" has made a comment. Just maybe the idea of possibly being out of a job come next year is too much for them to handle if they are being honest with themselves. Their survival is linked to their job, they'll either have one or they won't have one, and they don't know the answere to that one. If your in the "Doomer" camp at least you'll have a years supply of food. Bussiness can't do bussiness if their customers don't have money. That's what a depression is, a lot of people without money.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 09, 1999.

that's one of the reasons for having storage food and supplies- basic stuff. Not just environmental catastrophe or shipping problems, but plain ole no money problems- I've always stored up food- and have depended on it when flat broke- have never had to visit a food shelf for freebie food- and hope i never will.

Am more concerned with paying real estate taxes in the event of a depression- will have paid this year's taxes by then- but next years- who knows?? I grow food for a living fof course, but the money to pay me might not even be there.......

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), June 09, 1999.

This is a serious concern since our financial systems are allot more vulnerable today then back in the 1929-1933 situation. Back then a factional reserve system of currency had about 25% gold backing. Silver was used in coinage. There was a base from which money derived its value. Today the only thing we have is debt based money. There is no 'base', only confidence. Two things haunt the system. One is bonds. The other is deriviatives. A financial Armagedon will be joined soon.

There are two things upon which modern economies rely. One is flow and the other is credit/debt. When these begin to implode then you will see something more like WWII where entire national economies are devastated. In fact this process has already begun in asia.

Famine is the result of a failure in employment. The unemployed can not buy food. Enough unemployed and the government can not feed them. Whenever governments take away the profit incentive then farmers stop producing because they have no incentive to do so. They can always produce just enough for themselves. It is important to recognize that government interventions can cause many more and more serious problems then free markets. Command economies are a sure road to poverty. Always have been and always will be.

-- -. (dit@dot.dash), June 09, 1999.

Are the "Pollys" starting to "get it". Not a single flame from the "Pollys" on this world depression view point. Maybe it hits too close to home.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 09, 1999.

Financial impacts (recession/depression) are very difficult to argue with. Stating that Y2K has potentially very serious financial/economic impacts is almost mainstream thought now, and is likely to become effectively so in the next few months.

As it says in the Backwoods Home prep page: "Finances first."

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), June 09, 1999.

Mac-----It wasn't very long ago that Yordon and Yardeni were talking about recession/depression and were thought of having an extremist veiw of the consequences of Y2K, and now it's almost "mainstream" that Y2K has the potential of "very" serious financial/economic [recession-depression] impact on our society. It's interesting how our veiw of the problem has changed. I'm wondering "if" sometime soon the idea of a potential breakdown of our power grid and our banking system will also be "mainstream".

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), June 09, 1999.