I've had a breakthrough in making colloiidal metals

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I thought the members of this forum would be interested in reading a letter I sent recently to Dr. Bill Schenker:

Bill:

I discovered how to produce a clear colloidal silver (never changes color) that has an indefinite shelf-life. I can make over a liter of it in 1 MINUTE at a concentration of over 5 PPM (if you run it for 10 minutes you'll get 50 PPM, ETC.) AND YOU CAN USE TAP or SPRING WATER TO DO IT if you don't have distilled water available, or prefer not to go through the expense AND ENERGY CONSUMPTION (Y2k problems, as you well know).

The process can be run off batteries if you have a 300 watt inverter available. Except for the silver wire and power supply, all the rest of the items used to make it are commonly found in the kitchen. AND I bet the power supply can be purchased used for under $30 bucks (I purchased a new one for $65). I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible get one for free just by keeping your eyes open.

The method is readily applicable to produce a host of other colloids such as gold, iridium, platinum, rhodium, etc. Next week I plan to make colloidal gold for my wife's joint pain (I wouldn't mind getting your input on this idea before she ingests it though).

In short, this IS THE BABY you've been searching for. I haven't a clue if it's patentable, I sort of doubt it (my thinking is that at least parts of it have been in the public domain for a long, long time), but I'm not certain at this juncture.

I'd like to make this method available to as many people as possible, BUT I have reservations with regard to safety because, while the method can be used safely, if you don't know what you're doing you can DEFINITELY kill yourself, no question about that. Also, as you know, I've been tinkering with CS for more than two years so I wouldn't mind generating a small income (selling my research report didn't EVEN COME CLOSE to offsetting my expenses) from either selling this vastly superior CS at a NOMINAL price (not the ridiculous $20-$40 for a 4 oz. supply), and/or selling, say, a video tape of my apparatus in action. BUT I HAVE SERIOUS RESERVATIONS ABOUT SAFETY FOR PEOPLE INEXPERIENCED WITH THIS TYPE OF ELECTRICAL APPLICATION -- WHICH COULD EASILY INCLUDE ALMOST EVERYBODY.

I would appreciate receiving your thoughts.

Rog

-- Dr. Roger Altman (rogaltman@aol.com), June 06, 1999

Answers

I've had a breakthrough in discerning tepid poppycock due to this post.

Spurious? Curious? Furious?

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), June 06, 1999.


Randolf:

It sure would help if you could be a little more specific. Shall I send you a sample to have analyzed, or do you prefer to sit there in front of your computer screen and continue to launch insults?

Roger

-- Dr. Roger Altman (rogaltman@aol.com), June 06, 1999.


Doctor,

I followed the colloidal silver (Bill Schenker) threads on North's discussion forum when I first heard about Y2K in 1997.

No offense to anyone but I think this is way over most people's heads, including mine..... and isn't it illegal to sell something like this without government or FDA approval?

-- GeeGee (GeeGee@madtown.com), June 06, 1999.


Please look at the May 1999 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, showing text and photos of an argyria victim.

http://www.nejm.org/content/1999/0340/0020/1554.asp

"Suspensions of silver, available now in some health food stores and pharmacies, are touted for the treatment of many disorders, including the acquired immunodeficiency syndrome, cancer, sore throats, meningitis, parasites, chronic fatigue, and acne, without substantiation."

-- Mary (Argent@here.now), June 06, 1999.


Each person will have to decide if colloidal silver really works and if it is dangerous to ingest. I've spent over two years studying these and other questions and have come to my own conclusions. All I can say is that colloidal silver deserves your utmost effort to learn all you can before you conclude anything. A closed mind to new ideas and discoveries is tragic; Y2k will all but prove this fact to billions of people in a few short months.

Roger

-- Dr. Roger Altman (rogaltman@aol.com), June 06, 1999.



Doctor,

I have been researching CS also for about two years now and have been making my own, using a Motherlode HVAC and 27v DC, for a little over a year. I have found that most of what everyone claims it will cure has a pretty solid foundation. Works great on cold sores and Lyme when ABX's no longer have any effect. Myself and my family are still very pink and also very healthy. I feel sorry for Rosemary, but she was not a product of CS.

I would be very interested in finding out more about your process.

Sincerely, Bill

-- Bill (billvan@cheerful.com), June 06, 1999.


The subject of the N. England Journal of Medicine article has a home page at:

http://homepages.together.net/~rjstan/rose3.html

Two previous threads on this forum:

Colloidal Silver Generator? - http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000WQw (Feb)

First of its Kind Colloidal Silver Report - http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000ZNH (March)

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), June 06, 1999.


The argyria victims name is Rosemary Jacobs. You can read her story here: Rosmary's Story

She took the CS in approx. 1953. Is it possible there have been improvements? I would think so but I'm not sure. I've had a few people recommend CS to me but as of yet I have declined to engage. To each his own, I guess.

-- Ready & Waiting (not@home.com), June 06, 1999.


The New England Journal of Medicine -- May 20, 1999 -- Vol. 340, No. 20 "At the age of 11 the patient was given nose drops of unknown composition for "allergies," and three years later her skin turned gray."

Let's look at the logic of this. Anything that is of unknown composition is automatically colliodal silver? Please folks, let's get serious here.

First place, the definition of what exactly is colloidal silver seems to change RADICALLY through the years. In the last ten years or so it is pure water that has had one or two elctrodes of pure silver with AC or DC of anywhere from 27 to 15,000 volts for various periods of time. Decades ago "colloidal silver" was various silver compounds. Before that it was powdered or ground silver. Folks, calling three very different things the exact same name ain't plumb.

From everything I've read and experianced about the CURRENT definition of CS is that it is safe, does not cause argyria, is extremely useful for some medical problems, useless for others, and from some sources wildly overpriced.

One more time, To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-request@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. It's a frequently off topic but useful source of info, particularily the poster Tai-pan.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 06, 1999.


Doctor Altman:

I preferred to go out for a walk.

All in all I've been a bit skeptical regarding promoted health remedies claiming amazing results: Barley Green, Blue-Green Algae, Mineral Toddy, et cetera. I'm not an expert to determine what is and is not snake oil.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), June 06, 1999.



Mr. Seger, you didn't read it all.

At the age of 11 the patient was given nose drops of unknown composition for "allergies," and three years later her skin turned gray. The pigmentation extends to her waist. SHE WAS THOUGHT TO HAVE ARGYRIA, AND A SKIN BIOPSY AT THE AGE OF 15 CONFIRMED THE PRESENCE OF SILVER DEPOSITION.

-- Mary (Argent@here.now), June 06, 1999.


Whoa, didn't think you were gonna make it there doc. Good thing that breakthrough came just in time to make some $$$$ before Y2K hits. OK everyone, line up here and contribute to the good doctor's retirement fund. Hey, Y2K is quite an opportunity. Glad to see you've planned this one out so well. Getting everyone familiar with you over a few months and priming them with an anticipated "breakthrough". Top notch plan, top notch!

-- Y2K (instant@bucks.com), June 06, 1999.

Mary,

It's true that there was a silver overload in the skin of the person you are referring to. What is *not* true is that it was caused by a coloidal silver solution such as Dr. Altman is talking about. To use another example, mercury is very poisonous to us, but when you have a tooth filled it will probably be with a mercury compound. How come you are not being poisoned by the mercury? Don't point to that ancient case of silver overload and equate it with today's product.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), June 06, 1999.


Y2K,

You don't know what you are talking about. You don't know Dr. Altman and your slander is out of order. Why don't you try to get a few facts together before blowing off like that? What's the matter with you?

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), June 06, 1999.


To all the cynics out there.

First, I don't recall making ANY claims with regard to the efficacy of colloidal silver.

Second, I haven't decided whether or not to release the colloidal silver generation method to the public because there's a good chance someone will get hurt or worse trying to operate it.

Third, I've never netted a dime selling anything related to colloidal silver, and with all the cynics out there eager to warn the world about my obvious sinister motives, I wonder how ANY new and useful information could ever escape being ridiculed into oblivian.

Any helpful ideas along these lines wouild be appreciated. If not I'll probably pull the plug. Who needs this crap?

Roger

-- Dr. Roger Altman (rogaltman@aol.com), June 06, 1999.



Here comes Mary Argent again with the same old crap that has been hashed over and over again. I have been using CS for almost 5 years every day as an underarm deoderant and my arm pits still are pink as can be!!!

We have a one ounce silver round in our water jar in our refridgerator to keep the water pure, and my skin is not silver. Everytime I feel a cold coming on I take CS and in less than two days my cold or sore throat is gone.

Why pay a doc to pump you full of antibiotics that don't work if CS works wonders? Burn Centers use CS on burn victims and the doc puts CS in the eyes of newborn babies. They dont get grey eyes from that!!!

Let Mary Argent with her closed mind suffer her colds for two weeks, but for me, CS has saved me thousands of dollars in the last 5 years!!! I don't sweat Y2K if I need an antibiotic!!!! I make my own CS and it costs only pennies to make!!!

-- freddie (freddie@sandiego.com), June 06, 1999.


MY BELATED RESPONSE TO ROGER'S EMAIL TO ME ON MAY 18TH

For you people not familiar with how science is researched it might be educational for you to watch the typical process here as Roger's work is discussed. Look especially for the following characteristics, without which no good health sciences work progresses: 1) mutual courtesy, 2) consistent effort to self-critique, 3) caution, 4) respect for the truth, no matter where it falls, 5) above all regard for patients' health.

Dear Roger:

I really have to ask your forgiveness for not critiqueing your letter to me of 5/18/99. What happened was I have been heavily involved with relocation, plus remodeling of my new y2k homestead. On top of that I got 'hooked' again on reading and posting to y2k websites, mostly Ed Yourdon's. What a time eater THAT is! Anyway, let me get on with what I should have done weeks ago.

"I discovered how to produce a clear colloidal silver (never changes color) that has an indefinite shelf-life. I can make over a liter of it in 1 MINUTE at a concentration of over 5 PPM (if you run it for 10 minutes you'll get 50 PPM, ETC.) AND YOU CAN USE TAP or SPRING WATER TO DO IT if you don't have distilled water available, or prefer not to go through the expense AND ENERGY CONSUMPTION (Y2k problems, as you well know)."

This process sounds superior to the one I use to make my C.S., which is using solar panels at approx. 27 volts, and distilled water, for about an hour or two duration -- resulting in a liquid which turns from colorless to various hues within 24 hours of generation. I can make a quart of the stuff at about 15 PPM. It's duration seems to average out in terms of several months at least.

Your process sounds very similar to what David Ripley (Motherlode system) and Bruce Marx (CSPRO system) market. How does it differ from theirs (if you can reveal that info without divulging what is proprietary)? Certainly you appear to have developed a method which is a major departure from any other C.S. generation method I know of: dispensing with the need for distilled water!! This feature in itself is a major coup, and has great implications for post-y2k use, where the energy and equipment needed to distill water will be a significant drain on homestead resources.

"The process can be run off batteries if you have a 300 watt inverter available. Except for the silver wire and power supply, all the rest of the items used to make it are commonly found in the kitchen. AND I bet the power supply can be purchased used for under $30 bucks (I purchased a new one for $65). I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible get one for free just by keeping your eyes open."

This aspect of your process runs at cross purposes with a basic requirement for all my recommendations for post-y2k survival strategies: as much as possible the method must use the bare minimum of electrical power and electrical equipment. This so that it won't be a drain on energy sources, which for most people will be a set of photovoltaic panels. And also that it will not depend upon electrical equipment so complex that a breakdown will be too complex for the ordinary handyman to repair.

What you're talking about here is a) using 120vAC as your power source -- a risky assumption post-y2k, or b) a 12vDC source driving a 300 watt DC-to-AC inverter -- inverter equipment which requires sophisticated electronic knowledge/test gear/replacement components to repair. And driving the inverter must be a 12vDC battery bank --- the weakest link in modern alternative energy systems: most people prepping for y2k are radically underestimating lead acid battery longevity, safety, and satisfactory maintenance strategies. Without extensive experience in their use, and buying ultra-longlife brands & models (providing 15 and 20 year life), early failure (like a couple, 3 years) is the rule, not the exception.

"The method is readily applicable to produce a host of other colloids such as gold, iridium, platinum, rhodium, etc. Next week I plan to make colloidal gold for my wife's joint pain (I wouldn't mind getting your input on this idea before she ingests it though)."

I've done quite a bit of reading on various colloidal metals, other than silver, for medicinal purposes -- here's my bottom line reco: tread very carefully. This ground has little experimental clinical work to base decisions on, except in the case of gold therapy. And here the word is: danger. Gold therapy is risky. It can cause radical changes in organ chemistry, some of it IRREVERSIBLE. If my wife had bad joint pain would I use gold therapy? No way, OJ --- I'd rather see her hooked on narcotics than try gold (I've always been conservative in my use of pharmaceuticals.)

" I haven't a clue if it's patentable, I sort of doubt it (my thinking is that at least parts of it have been in the public domain for a long, long time), but I'm not certain at this juncture."

I've got some good advice for you in this area, learned painfully from watching my dad go thru his lifetime of inventing medical devices (He was a practicing M.E. for 10 years before getting his M.D.) Patent activity is designed to make us peons poorer, and lawyers and major corporations richer. The patent law as it works today is basically a fraud. The best advice I can give, from a purely marketing standpoint, is: keep your proprietary info private. But I bracket all my marketing recos in the framework of the coming y2k dilemma (assuming it will be more than a Bump In The Road) --- so see below.

".......I wouldn't mind generating a small income (selling my research report didn't EVEN COME CLOSE to offsetting my expenses) from either selling this vastly superior CS at a NOMINAL price (not the ridiculous $20-$40 for a 4 oz. supply), and/or selling, say, a video tape of my apparatus in action."

I wouldn't even think of retailing the stuff --- you're getting into bizness, which means bookkeeping, paying various tariffs, & all the other overhead even small biz has to pay -- that's the way to really lose money faster --- unless you like being a business man -- which I know you don't because I know you: you are a warm and fuzzy professor type.

Not only that, but you'll SURELY get into trouble with the FDA, as my friend Thomas Miller has.

Getting a video out on your apparatus would be a great educational thing. But I'd handle that by asking for donations of X dollars to cover costs only. Is it fair for you to have to keep going in the hole because your doing research that people can really use effectively in post-y2k? Of course not. But life's not supposed to be fair -- it's just supposed to be exciting. And what you've done, especially with that tap water feature is nothing less than that.

"I'd like to make this method available to as many people as possible, BUT I have reservations with regard to safety because, while the method can be used safely, if you don't know what you're doing you can DEFINITELY kill yourself, no question about that.

"BUT I HAVE SERIOUS RESERVATIONS ABOUT SAFETY FOR PEOPLE INEXPERIENCED WITH THIS TYPE OF ELECTRICAL APPLICATION -- WHICH COULD EASILY INCLUDE ALMOST EVERYBODY."

Right on the money, Roger. And that's one big reason I decided to stick with recommending a 27vDC setup -- it can't kill.

So in conclusion, once again my deep apologies for not providing my critique in a more timely manner. On the other hand, I think it will do the lurkers good to see how you and I talk to each other (as we have on several occasions in the past) about this aspect of medical research. In that regard I will respond to at least some of the posted answers to your initial post -- hopefully bringing some further balance to the discussion at hand,

I remain,

Sincerely,

Bill

P.S. Best wishes to your daughter and her medical school studies. B.

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), June 06, 1999.


TO ALL THOSE WHO'VE ANSWERED ROGER'S INITIAL POST

I was planning on individual responses to the various individuals. However "I've been here, seen it, done it" many times before in the past 1 1/2 years. Suffice to make a few general remarks:

1) Roger, because you are a 'warm, fuzzy professor type' you've never learned the appropriate response to discourteous flamers: IGNORE them for criminy's sake!

2) Note the difference in the tone, the style, of the Negative posters -- and the Positive posters on this thread (all of above being a replay of deja vu all over again many times repeated ditto you said that before already.)

--------a) Negatives: LOUDLY quote various sources in the literature, and misinterpret other sources in the literature.

--------b) Positives: describe their own personal experiences using the stuff. (Sure personal experience is ANECDOTAL. So tell me, how did YOU learn to grow up in this world after you left kindergarten, EXCEPT through mostly anecdotal learning experiences?)

3) Bottom line post-y2k: if it's just a Bump In The Road, you Negatives will have smooth sailing until you run into the rapidly growing wall of antibiotic-resistant bugs out there ready to bite you.

If on the other hand y2k turns out to be The Big One, what will you do when your 2 weeks prescription of various antibiotics runs out and you've got sick kids, or a sick wife, or a sick you on your hands?

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), June 06, 1999.


GeeGee - The First amendment no longer applies to the topic of health. There are many things you can sell but not talk about or publish a book about (in the same company).

Randolph - When you read the claims ogliometric proanthrocyanidin they seem outlandish also, however they are true and have made a profound difference in my wife's health. There is a lot of bunk out there but the average human has the resources to determine what is false and what is true, if they take the time.

Mary Argent - A pyschic? If so try again. I read it all and read Rosemary's site, quake site, and everything Webcrawler or dogpile brought up on the subject about a year ago. She obviously used a goodly quantity of a silver compound. Back then they may have even put a label on it "colloidal silver". It is also obvious to anybody that bothers to do the research that what Rosemary put up her nose was NOT colloidal silver as that term is used today. At least the alopathic doctors no longer use mercury compounds or even silver compounds. They still do administer slow acting poisons like AZT that have shown ZERO benificial effect and kill every single patient that follows the doctors dosage.

Y2K - Just a guess, but I'll guess you are a polly, right? (just basing that guess on your manners)

Dr. Bill! - Hello, and thank you for all those wonderful postings on the original Gary North "hmm it's loading, where's my copy of War and Peace?" Forum. It was you that got me started on C.S. inquiry and I have been able to help others. Thanks.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 07, 1999.


Bill:

Great to hear from you. I've taken some of your comments and added my response.

"Your process sounds very similar to what David Ripley (Motherlode system) and Bruce Marx (CSPRO system) market. How does it differ from theirs (if you can reveal that info without divulging what is proprietary)?"

Bill: It utilizes a different mass transfer mechanism which speeds up the reaction 20 to 50 times.

"Certainly you appear to have developed a method which is a major departure from any other C.S. generation method I know of: dispensing with the need for distilled water!! This feature in itself is a major coup, and has great implications for post-y2k use, where the energy and equipment needed to distill water will be a significant drain on homestead resources."

Bill: That's because the presence of water is only incidental to completing the electrical circuit.

"This aspect of your process runs at cross purposes with a basic requirement for all my recommendations for post-y2k survival strategies: as much as possible the method must use the bare minimum of electrical power and..."

Bill: My process uses less power per milligram of CS produced than any other I know of by a very wide margin.

"...And also that it will not depend upon electrical equipment so complex that a breakdown will be too complex for the ordinary handyman to repair. What you're talking about here is a) using 120vAC as your power source -- a risky assumption post-y2k, or b) a 12vDC source driving a 300 watt DC-to-AC inverter -- inverter equipment which requires sophisticated electronic knowledge/test gear/replacement components to repair. And driving the inverter must be a 12vDC battery bank --- the weakest link in modern alternative energy systems: most people prepping for y2k are radically underestimating lead acid battery longevity, safety, and satisfactory maintenance strategies. Without extensive experience in their use, and buying ultra-longlife brands & models (providing 15 and 20 year life), early failure (like a couple, 3 years) is the rule, not the exception."

Granted. But the power drain will be exceedingly small so the equipment needed to run the device should last a long time, particularly if it's recharged by solar panels. Besides, no one is saying that the DC methodology should be abandoned; simply augmented to "cover the bases" since we can't predict just how Y2k will play out in the short and certainly in the long term.

Thanks very much for responding, belatedly or otherwise,

Rog

-- Dr. Roger Altman (rogaltman@aol.com), June 07, 1999.


ROGER:

Good morning!

"Bill: It utilizes a different mass transfer mechanism which speeds up the reaction 20 to 50 times."

"Bill: That's because the presence of water is only incidental to completing the electrical circuit."

Whew!! people who read the above 2 statements and don't have a grounding in the physical sciences, particulary chemistry, don't realize the significance of those two features. I do. I'm amazed. On that basis let's take another look at patenting the process.

Your process appears so revolutionary that it may well be patentable, AND strongly defensible from a patent lawyer's point of view. It's something some big mega/multi national should be interested in.

Now the other shoe. If you have your creation written up & sent to the patent office by your patent lawyer it you will cost you considerable bucks. If your claims are true I think you will get your patent. The next step SHOULD be that some giant company approaches you and wants to buy you out. The amount may seem huge. It will be piddling compared to what COULD be made (and what they WILL make.) ACCEPT IT!! --- WITH OPEN ARMS!. Forget about using the millions you COULD have made (if only you had been a tougher negotiator) to support your favorite philanthropic project. 'Cause if you don't accept their offer they will lickety split STEAL your patent from you.

How? Easy. I call it MegaCorporation Mafia tactics. Two easy ways are:

1) They simply start using the process and say to you, "So sue me already!" You do, and promptly go bankrupt bec of the legal fees.

2) They make a minor modification in the patented process and get a new patent. You sue. Again you go promptly bankrupt.

Now the third shoe drops (Monsters are allowed to have anatomic irregularities.) --------- You would get your patent in due time ........... but 'due time' would be LONG after after Y2K occurs. Which makes the whole previous scenario highly debatable (Yeah, yeah, yeah --- "Nobody KNOWS what will happen in y2k -- so maybe it won't be so bad." Sorry, you're talking to InfoMagic's dad here -- "I taught him all he knows.")

Now back to the physical sciences -- enuf of this liegal Spiegal stuff.

"Bill: My process uses less power per milligram of CS produced than any other I know of by a very wide margin."

"But the power drain will be exceedingly small so the equipment needed to run the device should last a long time, particularly if it's recharged by solar panels."

I came to the above consideration late last evening as I was composing my response. I was tired. Also I'm really bad at arithmetic as you know. So I simply ignored it. It's the first mistake I've ever made in my life (except when I THOUGHT I made a mistake -- but didn't.) AND YOU CAUGHT ME AT IT, YOU SWINE!

So let me try to get back into your good graces by 'brainstorming'' a possible post-y2k-appropriate power source for your process. First, can you reveal the voltage, amperage, and whether you use AC or DC in your device? Assuming it's DC (unlikely, on the basis of your previous experience with Bruce Marx' product) one could assemble a series array of 10 solar panels, each putting out 3 amps or more. That would give you 120vDC at 3+ amps. If your device doesn't like DC as an input, it would be fairly easy to convert the DC to a pulsing DC, and even to alternatingly reverse its polarity, to turn it into a square wave-like AC. Your power source would then come closer to meeting my criteria for post-y2k: cheap, simple, readily purchasable components NOW.

I will await your response before doing more brainstorming --- preferably here on the thread, so people can watch the development process (and also maybe to allow input from experienced electronic designer-type people. Paul Davis &/or Stephen Poole -- are you reading this thread?)

Now back to the activity we all participate in on these forums, creating more word pollution. My last quote out of your post & my B.S. response:

""cover the bases" since we can't predict just how Y2k will play out in the short and certainly in the long term."

Ah, Roger, as I've always suspected, you're just a Polly in Doomster's clothing. Shame, shame!

Bill

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), June 07, 1999.


this should have an "OT" on the thread,cool stuff though,like the taoist sages trying to make an ilixer of immortality so they could live long enough to reach immortality

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 07, 1999.

ZOOBIE:

I like a lot of your posts. I HAVE noticed that some of you oldtimers on this forum have said it's not for preppers -- there's plenty of other sites for those kinds of posts.

My problem with that philosophy: I can't FIND any other sites where I can get the traffic I need to see prep ideas properly developed and evangelized.

My other problem with same: Aren't the Pollys the only ones who want to stick prep info somewhere in some dark corner so it won't bubble up into people's consciousness? Why would a certified Doomer like you and I want to split that stuff off from the 'philosophical' type of posts?

Or, it just occurred to me, are you thinking that only technical, programming, data processing, embedded problems type stuff should be on this forum? I wouldn't mind that at all. But establishing that policy AND maintaining it would seem to me to be even more airey fairey than taoist searches for immortality. Especially since Roger and I have alREADY found the elixir: Colloidal Silver.

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), June 07, 1999.


Most likely, Rosemary inhaled a colloidal solution of silver in which the molecules were too large causing the argyria. In order for the mineral to reside in tissue it would be micron size or larger. Ionic/water soluble mineral solutions, angstrom in size are the safest for consumption.

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), June 07, 1999.

I only mentioned the O.T. thing because my poor low-tech brain couldn't figure out what this had to do with y2k.I think off topic posts are great,but I like to know ahead of time.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), June 07, 1999.

ZOOB:

Tnx for the private email response. Am answering this on the thread because I think others beside us might be interested in the issue.

Well, I DO have a problem with truly OT threads. Being the obsessive-compulsive that I am, a charge of 'irrelevancy' strikes right thru the center of my l'il ol' heart.

But, if y2k preps are NOT considered OT on Ed's forum, then this thread, as high-tech & full of jargon as it is, is definitely ON topic. (I remember a more blunt accusation made of me on the old GN website, when writing about the pros & cons of C.S. 1 1/2 years ago. A lady posted to me: "Huh? What has colloidal silver got to do with Y2K???!!")

I will assume for the rest of this post that preps are not OT on this forum.

OK, here's the connection.

PART I. If y2k proves considerably more than a BITR, and it lasts long enough, sooner or later you are going to run out of antibiotics. A few days later your wife comes down with a mild urinary tract infection (known in the trade as a UTI.) You know from past experience that if antibiotics are started promptly beating the infection will be a piece of cake. So you need to get her some antibiotics pronto.

You call your local medical clinic to have your doc write wifey an Rx. Problem: the fones don't work (& haven't for months) -- so you'll have to drive the 5 miles to the office to pick up the scrip in person; you don't have gas for your car; your car's battery has 'sulfated' from disuse of more than a month & is no longer serviceable; you couldn't get down to doc's even if you had gas & a working battery -- most of the thoroughfares are clogged with stalled out vehicles -- ran out of gas; you still have a bicycle so you weave your way thru the flotsam & jetsam & arrive 45 minutes later; the office is closed -- no sign -- just closed -- no lights on inside; you decide in a fit of frustration to wheel yourself down to the drugstore a few blocks away (to 'DEMAND' a prescription;) when you arrive you find a different problem: -- no 'closed' sign on the door -- as a matter of fact no door, and no windows --- and everything in the store's been pillaged down to the bare shelves, including all the isopropyl alcohol ('rubbing' alcohol) --- people found out it made passable cookstove fuel.

PART II. If you had provided yourself with an inexpensive C.S. generator, using 3 small inexpensive solar panels and a few pieces of silver wire, and a source of distilled water (with a simple homebrew stovetop distiller) -- you could have made a quart of C.S., in an hour or two. On the basis of a couple tablespoons a couple times a day for five days, you could have provided wifey with enough anti-bacterial reinforcement to most likely contain the UTI, handily.

How do I know this? Several people have emailed me to report such success, including a research DVM's wife who had to be on CONTINUOUS MAINTENANCE antibiotics for years, to suppress her chronic UTIs. Since starting C.S. (more than a year ago) no more antibiotic prescriptions.

Numerous other posts on this, the GN forum, and the y2k.entrewave.com forum recounting similar successes with various other health problems attest to C.S.'s broad spectrum effectiveness for mild to moderate infections.

Zoob, is this enough connection to make a CS thread On Topic?

Bill

P.S. It occurs to me ask a subsidiary question. Maybe your concern is not the subject, but the TECHNICAL DETAIL Roger and I have gone into in discussing it. If that aspect bothers you, how is that different than posts by programmers documenting the tech details of why y2k will or will not be a problem big enough to worry about?

"In the details lies The Truth."

P.P.S. There is ONE class of reader of these threads who could logically criticize the bandwidth taken up by this whole thread: a certified Polly -- he KNOWS there's no point in preparing for a catastrophe that 'can't' happen. --------- B.

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), June 07, 1999.


WJS, MD:

You wrote some very interesting Y2K scenarios. I see your viewpoint regarding the necessity of having a backup of medicine when pharmaceutical concoctions are simply unavailable. I wonder how effective herbal treatments would be if there were no antibiotics or CS-- only whatever medicinal plants one could locate and prepare.

I think I should buy some more multi-vitamins and increase exercise times.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), June 07, 1999.


Gordon and Ken, actually I'm a GI who's prepared. I'm just getting more and more cynical of what I see as opportunists here. If this is such an incredible breakthrough, why aren't these good doctors discussing it on a medical forum and publishing their finds in public medical journals so that people with greater expertise can evaluate it based on scientific analysis. Instead, here they are hiding away in a Y2K forum dazzling everyone with their genius. Sorry. See too much I guess. My manners and patience are growing thin. My apologies.

-- Y2K (instant@bucks.com), June 07, 1999.

Opportunist! we're not your, guinea pigs here, Doctor! The ethical implications are outrageous for a forum like this. Go away. And don't you dare call me a polly!

-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), June 07, 1999.

Y2K - Well one man's breaktrough is another man's "so?". If Altman's process can produce usable C.S. with standard water and not much electricity the implications for a place like Africa are simply astounding*. * = if, BIG if, people would take it. I've found over the years that in many areas of life that technological change is easy, getting people to adapt that change is darn near impossable, example, Schimelweis ( wrong spelling, drat, the hand washing advocate against septis 1800's). If one has a forest, a wood fired still, and a solar array that's huge, Altman's process is no big thing. If you can purchase 1kW of electricity for $0.07 at retail, Altman's process is of no significance what so ever. It all depends on circumstances.

The Railway Commission (forerunner of the Interstate Commerce Commission) was established to help the people obtain lower railway passes, while cynics said it was to put small RRs out of business. It did the later. Much the same is today's FDA. It acts as an anti-competition enforcer on behalf of the big drug companies. C.S. is not profitable because it is not patentable. If it is not patentable, the 10 years and $250,000,000 required to get approval from the FDA can never be recovered.

It's late at night here Y2K, I'm doing a very poor job of getting my point across. My turn for an apology. I'll try to explain in the morning in a better manner.

Feller - In the morning.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), June 07, 1999.


Hmm, "...the presence of water is only incidental to completing the electrical circuit"?

And, you can use tap or spring water?

OK, for ten points, here's my guess:

You're using water as one electrode of a spark gap, and silver as the other.

Am I correct?

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), June 08, 1999.


PS: and the power supply is a neon sign transformer? (or similar)

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), June 08, 1999.

RANDOLPH:

You've brought up a good point. I looked into the grow-your-own herbal approach at about the same time I explored C.S., back in Jan '98. Had an on-going discussion with "Lua," who posted a lot on the subject since it's been her long-standing profession. Encouraged her to publish her own book on growing your own herbs and then processing them for health care use. She did a great job, even organizing the material, based on where in the country you live (as the distribution of readily available herbs varies from clime to clime.) Not only that -- she also limited her prep methods to only those that would be practical in a post-y2k world (That in itself sets the book apart from anything else in the field.) I think the book sells for something like 20 bucks. Don't know if she's still doing it.

Now here's an interesting part of the story. Lua kept me posted about some of the acute medical problems that were developing in her family, in particular, a kid who got sick with pneumonia if I remember correctly. She tried herbal treatments to no avail. Finally resorted to allopathic medicine ('pill rollers,' like I was for 30 years.) The child was admitted to a local hospital and had a heck of a time getting thru her bout, even with blasting her with antibiotics. Lua's comment towards the end of all that was something like, "Well, herbal medicine has its place, but when it comes to acute medical problems they often don't work fast enough." I haven't forgotten that comment, especially coming from one of Lua's experience, and it has influenced all my subsequent recommendations in the alternate health field.

If you want to investigate further into Lua's work, go to http://y2k.entrewave.com and do a search on her name and herbal medicine.

Now you've got a better idea why my recos focus on C.S. (and also the Bio-Electrifier, and the Magnetic Pulse Generator --- I have no time to re-discuss those latter devices anymore --- too busy with my own preps --- others and I have published stuff on it on the same website mentioned above. Do a search.)

Good luck with your vitamins and exercise program (Hey, we're ALL gonna' get a lot more exercise in post-y2k according to my crystal ball.)

Bill

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), June 08, 1999.


RANDOLPH:

I've got some more worthwhile info for you on herbal medicine, courtesy of an email sent to me a while ago (been too busy with my own preps to post before.)

################################

To: wjs@linkfast.net Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:21:56 -0700 Subject: Why Most Herbal Formulas Don't Work! X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 From: Allen G Shaw

Bill, I read your post about Lua's work on herbs and her comment about herbs not working fast enough. I thought you might be interested in what Dr. Richard Shulze has to say on the subject.

Allen

Why Most Herbal Formulas Don't Work! A Message from Dr. Richard Schulze - A Master Herbalist When I first started my own healing journey in the 1960's, one of my first great shocks was that most health products didn't work. This included all of the herbal formulas I tried. I was constantly amazed at the weakness of these so-called intense herbal formulas that were supposed to change my life. They didn't. I would take them diligently and nothing would happen. Out of frustration, and my own illness, I remember taking 20 to 100 times the dosages, the whole bottle, and still little or no effect. In order to get myself well from a terminal heart disease, I had to break all the rules and make it up as I went. Because I broke the rules, I got well. In the 1970's, I started helping others get well and opened up my clinic. >From the early days of my clinical practice, I was especially interested in helping people with serious illness and degenerative diseases. Almost all other graduates from the various institutes I attended worked mainly on young, healthy people who wanted to be a bit healthier, but I was obsessed with emergency treatment and the sick and dying. The same useless herbal formulas that failed me years before were now failing to help any of my patients. They thought they were doing something wrong and this is why they were coming to see me. I was forced to improve upon the crude formulas I had developed to heal myself and also create new formulas that worked. Why were all the herbal formulas useless? Why didn't they work? As far as I could see, there were three main reasons for this.

Reason #1: Antique Formulas Many of the herbal formulas available were designed in the middle-to-late 1800's, some even earlier. The 1800's were very different times. Today, we have junk food restaurants on every corner, get less exercise and have more stress than probably ever before in history. What it took to stimulate and cleanse Wyatt Earp and Buffalo Bill 150 years ago doesn't work today. Even some of the more modern herbal formula available were still designed in the 1940's or l950's. This is still over 40 years ago when herbs were looked at as a cute little hobby to alleviate headaches and tired feet, not cure life-threatening disease. Many other modern formulas are just remakes of these ancient formulas; the herbs are just shuffled and a so-called new formula is dealt. These formulas just don't work.

Reason #2: Weak formulas, wimpy dosages, poor manufacturing and poor quality herbs Most modern American natural healers and herbalists have been educated and grew up in a hostile legal and political environment. Recent history reveals that the AMA and other organizations have been on a witch-hunt for practicing herbalists and have jailed many. Out of fear, most herbalists and manufacturers want to make sure that no one ever gets a strong action or has any reactions with their products, even a cleansing reaction. They feel it's far safer to make products that have little or no effect. Like medical doctors today, treatment and therapy parameters are designed by the hospital legal departments to minimize financial repercussions and malpractice law-suits, not always what is best for the patient. One way these herbal manufacturers assure their safety, not your health, is to design formula with very small amounts of the potent herbs, or none at all. Then, to be really safe, they suggest a dosage that is so low it's useless. They don't want to take any risks. To further weaken any potency, many manufacturers have abandoned the tried-and-true methods of old herbalists for quick extraction processes, high tech (high heat) machinery, freeze-dried herbs, ignoring the moons and seasons, mostly to make a quick buck. The result, most herbal products I see today are worthless junk. Many manufacturers are more concerned that their product tastes good or has a great-looking label than with whether you will get well using it. I also see labels loaded with sophisticated laboratory-testing results for potency, trying to convince you that the colorless, tasteless and odorless water inside will actually benefit you. How stupid do they think we are? One of the worst aspects of many herbal formulas today is the poor quality of herbs used. The vast majority of herbal products are made from herbs grown outside the US. There is only one reason for this: they are cheap. Herbs brought in from India, China, Egypt, Mexico or Eastern Europe cost literally pennies a pound. I never used these poor quality herbs in my clinic. I always used American organically grown herbs that can cost over 20 times as much. I have visited these countries and found filthy, disgusting growing conditions, toxic pollution and out-of-control use of pesticides and insecticides. When we travel to these countries, we don't drink the water, don't even eat the food. Then why would we want to use herbs grown there? In the last two years, there have been numerous people getting sick after using famous herbal formulas because the herbs were contaminated with human fecal waste. If this isn't bad enough, most of these contaminated herbs, when brought into the United States, are gassed with Ethylene Oxide, an antibacterial gas that is known to cause cancer and also cause mutations in unborn children. In fact, the vast majority of organic herbs are even sterilized with this gas because the manufacturers are scared to use unsterilized herbs. In the last two years, I have done much to expose this corruption and I have been attacked by almost everyone in the herb industry, even my so-called friends. Even though they are well-aware of the problems, I have affected their income and they are plenty mad. Even the ones who haven't attacked me won't go on record to expose the industry or speak the truth. Most of my colleagues, out of fear of prosecution, write books and magazine articles, gather at meetings of their guilds, run schools and teach, but rarely have ever worked with a patient. It is illegal for an American herbalist to run a clinic and cure patients from illness and disease using American Herbs. This leads to the 3rd reason why most herbal formulas don't work.

Reason #3: Theory, not practical, clinical experience Why is it that most modern herbal formulas, designed by many of my colleagues, don't work? As I walk down the isles of modern day health food stores, I see hundreds of herbal products and recognize many of the names on the bottles. Many are my students and many are friends, but few of these armchair herbalists ever ran a clinic and would know the difference between a heart attack and indigestion. What they don't tell you on the bottle is that they developed these formulas after countless hours of research reading books and searching computer data bases, but they have had no clinical results or cures. You may be the first human to ever put these formulas in your mouth. A few of their herbal hypothesis are good, and in years, probably decades, some might prove to be important discoveries. I also know most of these formula will be tossed in the garbage where they belong. Running my clinic, I learned very quickly what it takes to get people well. Theories don't, hypothesis don't, but quality herbs, potent formulas and large dosages do. The formulas, dosages and programs on the following pages are the result of 10 years of healing myself and an additional 18 years of clinical experience. They work! "The following pages," referred to by Dr. Schulze, can be found on a website address http://www.healthfree.com/schulze/

###########################

Hope this helps. If you develop any worthwhile personal experience in this matter please report it back to this forum, and help the other readers here.

Tnx,

Bill

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), June 26, 1999.


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