RAINWATER

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I was planning on using gutters to collect rainwater from my roof into a rain barrel (and then run the water through a water purifier) .....just had a new roof put on the house.....when the old roof was taken off, the shingles were thrown on the grass. Some grass died where the shingles were thrown (a friend said likely from TAR in the roof).... My new roof also is zinc impregnated to prevent fungus growth.... ( I don't know if this type of zinc can cause zinc toxicity)......

Now I am wondering if it will be safe to use rainwater from my gutters even if I put it through a water purifier that I bought....

Anyone have any answers on this??????

-- KLT (KLTEVC@aol.com), June 04, 1999

Answers

Hi!

I don't know for certain so my plan is to cover a section of roof with plastic sheeting (cheap at Walmart or hardware store) and use that water. Will use regular gutter water if needed for other purposes than drinking.

Good luck!

-- Kristi (securx@succeed.net), June 04, 1999.


Kristi, thanks for the idea!

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), June 04, 1999.

DO NOT use rainwater for cooking or drinking. Today this water is loaded with heavy metals and pesticides. (you remember "acid rain", don't you?)

It would still be okay for washing, flushing and bathing, though...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 04, 1999.


Real Goods has a catalog with a video by a bunch of doctors in Austin, TX. They show how to set up a rain water collection system. They recommend metal (tin) roofs.

I've seen several references about not using shingles for your roof if the water is for human consumption. I would imagine that with the correct measurement and filtering system, it would be doable.

There are a lot of different methods to collect the water from existing roofs and water gutters. And, there are about 10 books on the subject.

There's a state agency on water control in Austin that has a great FREE booklet on how to plan your water resources. They have great water map if you are located in Texas.

John D.

-- John Dunbar (none@none.com), June 04, 1999.


Dennis,

I'm rather ignorant on this subject but I'm a bit skeptical. How do heavy metals and pesticides get airborne high enough up to be incorporated in rainfall? If they are there in sufficient quantities to hurt humans, why don't they hurt animals and plants?

My understanding is that the acid rain problem was due to power plant emissions. At least in my neck of the words, that is not a problem. Do you have info on this other stuff?

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), June 04, 1999.



Last time I checked, rain falls ALL THE WAY TO THE GROUND....

Think it might "pick up" a few "hitch-hiking" impurities on the way down? We have poisons in our environment on a massive scale today. Last week, Minnestota officials said not to eat too many fish caught there because of mercury poisoning. Hmmm....

I am NOT some tree-hugger. I just read the reports. I *AM* an engineer & computer consultant, so I try to keep abrest of things technical.

By drinking or cooking with rainwater (even "filtered"), you are exposing your loved ones to heath risks. Not sure? Contact your area environmental health department for more information...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 04, 1999.


You might want to check out this page for a filtering solution:

http://www.pwgazette.com/gravity.htm

I can vouch for the Texas rainwater publication - it is good.

Also these might be of some use...

Water info

"Captured Rainfall: Small-Scale Water Supply Systems." Bullentin 213, by the Dept of Water Resources, dated May 1981.

FROM:

Department of Water Resources PO Box 942836 Sacramento, CA 94236-0001 Attention Publications

PRICE: $ 1.08 (go figure on the .08 cent thing...? )

"Texas Guide to Rainwater Harvesting "

- -"The Texas Guide to Rainwater Harvesting is a primer of the basic principles of capturing rainfall, with an emphasis on residential and small-scale commercial applications. If you are considering rainwater harvesting as a partial or total source of you water supply for new construction or remodeling, this Guide and accompanying videotape provide the essential information to enable you to design a system that meets your needs. The first manual is free and additional manuals are $2.00/copy. The accompanying video tape is $5.00/copy. For ordering information, contact Patsy Salinas-Waters [ pwaters@twdb.state.tx.us ] at (512) 463-7955. "-

PRICE: $ FREE !!

[ If you email Patsy with your address, she'll mail it to you ]

"CISTERNS - PLANNING AND DESIGN" Adobe .PDF document

FROM: West Virginia University Cooperative Extension Service Found while looking through their publication list

"SAFE USE OF HOUSEHOLD GREYWATER" Adobe .PDF document

FROM: New Mexico State University, College of Ag. and Home Economics Document appears to be designated GUIDE M-106

"RAINWATER HARVESTING SYSTEMS FOR MONTANA" .HTML document

FROM: Montana State University Extension Service filed under 'Water Resource Management' ...document _may be_ labeled: MT 9707 AG

NOTE - on the .PDF and .HTML documents you'll need to follow your nose, some of this stuff I've had for a while and don't remember the exact mechanics of how I got where I did !

http://www.aavim.com/ This is the The American Association for Vocational Instructional Materials. They sell materials on all sorts of skills and trades. They have a very good book on "Planning for an Individual Water System" Item # 600.X $13.00 + $4.5 s/h. Request a catalog. AAVIM, 220 Smithonia Road, Winterville, GA 30683

** Take your time and search the states using this site as the starting point:

State Partners of the Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service

http://www.reeusda.gov/new/statepartners/usa.htm

Other 'net links of interest..............

http://www.redrok.com/water.htm Solar Water Distillation

http://www.accessone.com/~sbcn/solarwat.htm A SUMMARY OF WATER PASTEURIZATION TECHNIQUES

http://www.greenbuilder.com/sourcebook/rainwater.html Sourcebook Harvested Rainwater

http://www.fc.net/~tdeagan/water/ Holy Trauma Water Kitchen

http://lifewater.ca/ram_pump.htm Hydraulic ram pumps and Sling Pumps

http://www.eng.warwick.ac.uk/dtu/rainwaterharvesting/index.html DTU Roofwater Harvesting Programme

-- j (sandpine@juno.com), June 04, 1999.


I hate to point out the fact that rainwater eventually gets into our rivers, streams, groundwater, etc and IS consumed by humans. I would certainly check into a filtration system for the water. We bought a farm with 2 cisterns filled with rainwater from the house roof that is shingled and was used by the previous couple for the hot water system (we have disconnected it for now). They are well into their 80's with no ill effects having lived on this farm for 50 years and they didn't treat the water either.

-- beckie (none@nomail.com), June 04, 1999.

BTW the grass died because it got HOT under the shingles.

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), June 04, 1999.


I'm still trying to understand how heavy metals and pesticides could get airborne in the first place to be able to be incorporated into raindrops on the way down. That just does not seem plausible to me. Anybody else have any info on this?

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), June 04, 1999.


The effluvia from industry is dumped into the environment (lest you think otherwise, what are "pollution credits", and why are they so sought after by industry?). Now I'm not trying to say that ALL industrial waste is just DUMPED, but much *IS*.

It leaches into the ground, and lives in the soil. Same for pesticides used on farms. Well, at some point, the wind kicks in, DUST gets blown off the top of the ground, and becomes airborne. This dust contains the contaminants of which I spoke.

No "rocket science" here folks. Just the facts.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 04, 1999.


Well I'm no rocket scientist, nor do I wish to make this a major bone of contention, but it sounds totally implausible to me that enough pesticide and heavy metal contaminated dust would be blown by normal force winds high enough into the atmosphere to come back down again in the rain. It normally takes a volcano-type event to get dust that high into the atmosphere.

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), June 04, 1999.

Oh, I almost forgot. Include industrial AIRBORNE emissions (not everything is filtered out, even these days), and automobile airborne emissions.

All these emmissions contain chemicals/heavy metals and sttle to the ground (or NOT in some cases).

Man, why do you think the cancer rates are so high? It ain't like the "old days", when all this crap wasn't in the environment.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 04, 1999.


Dude, get a CLUE (not trying to falme, honest!!!!)

RAIN CLOUDS are NOT "high-altitude" events. When was the last time you saw STRATUS clouds disgorging RAIN? And did you just not SEE the bit I posted about rain falling THROUGH the stuff on its way to the ground?

I guess DENIAL takes many forms. Yours is environmental. Time to do some research...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 04, 1999.


Dennis,

With all due respect, you haven't presented any "facts", just assertions. You also haven't presented any research to back up these assertions. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that you have asserted some very serious things without one shred of supporting evidence. I'm not just going to take your word for it. I need evidence.

It's an important subject because many folks are indeed looking at rainwater as a backup water source. So if you have some evidence to bring to the table then I'm all ears (eyes)...really. But if not then heck, I'm a rainwater pollyanna ;-D.

-- David Palm (djpalm64@yahoo.com), June 04, 1999.



I did that research 5+ years ago. As MUCH as I want to provide the info, I can no longer do it. Honest.

With this series of posts, I've attempted to raise people's (your) consciousness level to the issues involved. YOU have to go "out there" and do some diggin'. I am only doing Y2K research these days.

Yeah, I *KNOW* it sounds like an excuse and a cop-out, but it's the TRUTH. If I kept every document I ever printed out, I'd need a damn WAREHOUSE.

I've just given you a STARTING point. That was my only intention, to be a "bell ringer". Now, GO GET 'EM!

Dennis

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 04, 1999.


David & Dennis, You are both right. It depends on where you live. I have personal experience in this area, so let me tell you a little story... I lived in Berlin,Germany for 2 years. They burn coal over there for electricity (or at least they did while I was there). EVERY afternoon I would take a shower and could actually SEE the coal dust washing down the drain. By the way I had an indoor job so I did not spend very much time outside during the day. I developed Bronchitis while I was over there because of breathing the air. I live in the country now, and the air is cleaner, but I have a different problem these days. Every spring and fall when the different plants are pollenating, you can see the pollen settle on vehicle and other stuff. It will not get washed away until it rains. Of course, every spring and fall my Bronchitis acts up again. Also, pollen is heavier that coal dust, which is why the dust stays in the atmosphere and the pollen settles.

-- DJ (reality@check.com), June 04, 1999.

Patsy Salinas-Waters (mentioned above) asked me to pass this on:

You can download their rainwater harvesting book from www.twdb.state.tx.us. Follow the link to "Conservation", then to "Alternative sources".

She's really, really busy. Thanks.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), June 04, 1999.


Dave

Unfortunately the problem is very real and the toxic residue has made it the the arctic wild life. This is well documented and I will assure you there is no heavy industry within a thousand miles. It has to get there somehow. I lived up there. They recommend not using the snow for drinking water, only ice. Beleive it or not.

Zinc is also not that good for you. I would tarp or polly the collection area. Safer than sorry.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), June 04, 1999.


Dave

If you need anymore than this look for it yourself.

Arctic Pollution: How Much is Too Much?

Arctic Pollution: How Much is Too Much?

In recent years, as environmental concerns have percolated
toward the top of the policy agenda, Canadians have
discovered that all is not well in the Great White North. Our
frozen slice of Eden has been thrust into the 20th century, and
with that displacement has come a disquieting array of very
"un-arctic" problems.

To portray the Arctic as little more than a chemical dumpsite would be
misleading. Compared with other regions on the face of the globe, the Arctic
remains a pristine wilderness. And yet the lexicon of "arctic" pollution is no
less fearful than that of industrial regions in North America or Europe.
Furans, cadmium, dioxins, chlordane, selenium, PCBs, mercury,
radioactive fallout-all are now a part of what has long been regarded as the
planet's most vulnerable and fragile ecosystem.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), June 04, 1999.


Here in Massachusetts we have a serious problem of mercury pollution in some of our rivers. We are told not to eat fish in those rivers now. The main source of the mercury are the commercial municipal waste (trash) incinerators, in other words, air pollution. One of the main sources of this mercury is button batteries.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), June 04, 1999.

RAINWATER CONTAMINATION -- Yes or no?

All my plans for alternate sources of water had been based on solar panels direct driving a 12/24vDC sub pump, with a hand bucket as backup. However my latest homestead here in AL has a well that's 390 feet deep! That puts a DC sub pump at a great disadvantage (am putting in a 48vDC version, requiring many more panels), and eliminates a hand bucket for all practical purposes.

So my strategy has switched to rainwater as my primary source, with the 48v sub pump as backup. I thought all would be clear sailing -- after all rainwater has been THE source of drinking water for more than a few years (like most of recorded history up till lately.)

This decision was based on my knowledge of how nature distills water (surface water rises as what can be considered 'steam.' This forms clouds, and when the clouds encounter colder air their moisture condenses out to rain. Couldn't ask for a better method of making 'pure' (close to distilled water.) And man imitates nature when it wants to make pure water: sets up a water still (which I have also considered in my preps: have a solar distiller which can take any kind of water & put out a gallon of pure, safe, distilled water daily, if the sun shines.)

On that basis I figured the biggest challenge of my proposed rainwater collection strategy would be to handle/prevent the LOCAL contamination, i.e., in the roof collector, and to a lesser extent the downspout, washer, filter, containment setup. There is plenty of documentation available on how to handle THAT problem.

But then I read at the beginning of this thread about low altitude AIR contamination affecting rainwater purity. What gives? Well, of course I had read about 'acid rain' killing off the Schwarzwald and the Adirondacks decades ago. But what's that got to do with being in the rural South? At first I poohpoohed Dennis' warnings, like any good Denialist.

That was relatively easy to do, since Dennis included 'heavy metals' as one of the pollutants. I reasoned: "How could a heavy metal rise to the level where clouds are formed ---- it defies the law of gravity?!" Then I read further down the thread and noted some disturbing statements. Then I started reading one of my sources of alternate medicine research, in particular David Williams' 'Alternatives,' out of Texas, one of the better ones in my opinion. His reporting seemed to confirm at least one aspect of Dennis' claims: it's been well demonstrated that certain agricultural chemicals after doing their dirty work on the soil then VAPORIZE and thus end up in the same place H20 does: 'our' clouds!

So what's a poor y2k prepper to do, confronted with these facts? Here's my 3-fold answer:

1) I'd rather drink polluted water, than NO water.

2) If you're a true y2k preper what are doing staying or planning to stay ANYWHERE NEAR near an industrial/metropolitan site? 3) If y2k turns out to be as bad as I'm basing my preps on, there won't BE any industrial infrastructure to belch out more poisons. (Now how can you Pollys call me a pessimist, when I'm so optimistic about the future of our 'smoke stack society?')

Raising my rainwater-filled glass in a toast to us all, I remain ---

Bill

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), June 05, 1999.


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