I started a thread yesterday asking what choices you have made with respect to warning people about Y2K and the tradeoff to personal preparation this involves. It is called "Ringing the Y2K alarm bells - Have you made your choice" and is still in Recent Answers. The responses, although not numerous, were consistent. GIs have stopped or slowed their Y2K activism, in those cases where they were previously warning and talking to folks about it. If this is representative of what many or perhaps even most GIs feel, then a conclusion would be that Y2K activism is dying among the GIs, who were the only ones raising the Y2K alarm. It would be dying a death of a thousand cuts. To me, this is very troubling, as I have chosen to continue being a Y2K activist as many of you who follow my posts already know.

The GI activist fills the role that should be being done by our "leaders", together with the mainstream press. Outside of the occasional well thought out piece, like the 60 minutes show or that issue of WIRED magazine, there is no Y2K alarm. It has been the GIs that have chosen to become involved and warn folks. They have been responsible in large measure for whatever 'grass roots' awareness movements have been formed already, and are currently being formed. Now it seems that these same people have made a different choice, one that abrogates whatever feeling of responsibility they may have felt before to be active in raising Y2K awareness. Have they now become an endangered species? If yes, then why? Is it due to being met with indifference, being mocked and laughed at and thought crazy, due to the lack of any substantial Y2K failures so far that would support their activism, due to the continued mixed signals and general lack of serious information by the government and mainstream press, all of these and more?

Perhaps my assumption is wrong and the responses are not in fact representative. After all, I am basing it on just a few responses, although what I have seen from personal GI friends does support the assumption. Maybe this is just a temporary condition. The pendulum swings both ways. When I first started posting last Fall, Y2K activism was alive and well. Now it seems the opposite is the case. Will it swing back again? I hope so. Think about the implications of the GI activists taking a seat on the sidelines. If you do not think this affects you, then think again. Consider the stakes and risks associated with giving up Y2K activism, with less and less Y2K awareness leading to less and less preparation. We all live somewhere, we all have neighbors, we all are part of a community regardless of if we are active in it or not, and we will all experience Y2K. Get the picture?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 03, 1999

Answers

I have stooped telling others about y2k, because I am sick and tired of being mocked and insulted for my preparations. I used to try to warn others but after constant insult, and hearing "if there is a problem, I'll go to your house!" I figure, why bother? To hell with the DGIs, and DWGIs, I'm going to save myself and my family. I feel that most sheeple don't care, and will not listen until it's too late. :( I am so SICK of the insults, and mocking smerks that I get that I have stopped warning most people, excupt for a few friends and family. *sigh* I feel that y2k will be a 7-10 and I try to get people to prepare, with the stor og th ant and the grasshopper, with the evidence, with common sense, ect... but I just get stares! I'm through warning people, I've warned everyone I care about and told them they're on their own next year. I won't remind them. I am still stockpling and will continue until the start of disruptions.

-- Crono (Crono@timesend.com), June 03, 1999.

Positive activism is dead. Negative activism (pollyanna/silencer missives) is alive and kicking, and will remain so until November/December.

Only wild card left is the effect of John K's Community Sedation road trip.

-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), June 03, 1999.

It's probably "all of the above," Rob. I, for one, tend to keep my mouth shut now if the subject of Y2K comes up. None of us likes to be mocked or made fun of, and that's what happens all too often.

There is some credence, too, to the notion that it is probably unwise in the extreme to tout your preps, assuming that things really do get bad. Best to avoid the hard choices down the line if possible. Again, none of us wants to be in the position of denying a begging mother some food for her child, or the one after that, or the one after that.

I think all of us occasionally experience the unnerving sense that we are wrong, that all we have done to prepare has been nothing more than a waste of time, effort and money. While most of us on this forum are not fans of the government--and know and understand the spin and the lies and the deception--unceasing messages of good news and progress still have an effect on our psyches and our outlooks.

I think the biggest factor, though, is that some of us are just tired of fighting the good fight. Human nature demands that we withdraw a bit in either our zeal or our direction of effort in the face of constant denial.

Most of us here have substantially completed our preparations so we've probably distanced ourselves from the problem. We no longer have our hands on it; rather, we've pulled back a bit and view it from a different perspective. Some of us are just plain tired, I think.

Just my two cents, as they say.

-- Vic (Rdrunner@internetwork.net), June 03, 1999.

AGREE WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE ! I HAVE "CONVERTED" all that I can and while soul search as to how I can contribute I have decided that I need to help others through my experiences of being a "homesteader". I know how to do so many things that I no longer think about it. But, old lady that I am, I can still remember when I moved from the city to a farm and didn't know how to do diddly squat. So, I will try and help those who are now in that position. Thats my contribution and thats all I can do and take care of my own family/preparations.

I also give hugs....Taz

-- Taz (Tassie @aol.com), June 03, 1999.

activism is not dying, but it is changing form. time is running short and with so much to do, you have to use your time even more wisely now. it's called triage. in my case, i don't waste my time arguing with anyone who thinks y2k is no big deal, i just shrug and move on, because i am busy helping someone else who wants some concrete assistance.

-- jocelyne slough (jonslough@tln.net), June 03, 1999.

Ditto Vic. Also, Ed was right when he said most people have made up their minds and won't be swayed by argument. For me, I've shaken the dust off my sandals. My preps are complete, and I spend every extra moment enjoying my family.

-- Codejockey (codejockey99@yahoo.com), June 03, 1999.

When I go out yard saling( which gets me great y2k stuff cheap) I strike up a conversation and tell people who will listen about y2k and the soon coming of the Lord. I have talked to some pretty wonderful people this way, Sure there are those who seem to not want to talk about, but even those people seem nice about it mostly, then I just simply warn them to have at least some water and drop it. It nice cause they don't know who I am or where I live but yet I'm still warning people.If you think about the multi level marketing tech such as if you tell one person then they will tell 2 who will tell this many and that then I hope maybe I am really making a difference. For christians I think it's good to talk about the end times with people too so people will be aware of what could be happening.

-- Mishee (anom@anom.com), June 03, 1999.

Hi Rob. We've been on several Y2K committees, councils, boards, etc, lots of community activism, which has petered out. Govt & Biz ineptitude and biz-as-usual. Amazing to watch. Have posted about this so many times are tired of it.

The freight train hurtles and roars to its wreck over the chasm. The factors which contributed to the Y2K computer "oversight" have themselves not been looked at and fixed. Root causes unremediated.

Ppl not ready or willing to change themselves, their thoughts, their activities. There was a brief flowering of community ideals, but the selfish tunnel-vision of the mobs put that on hold.

Will Y2K force mob-thought-action change, or will it be so bad that each-man-for-himself becomes further ingrained? It it's "me-against-all" it will go Infomagic.

We are all now riding on the current of mass karma. Maybe a few with tremendous effort can etch out a survival nook. That is the last reasonable hope.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 03, 1999.

It's too late for activism to result in things being fixed. All it will do is create more competitors with you for scarce resources such as cash from banks, water treatment supplies, lantern wicks, .223, etc.

-- A (A@AisA.com), June 03, 1999.

Rob, I will tell you why I have "stopped sounding the Y2k alarm". Not because I am tired of being laughted at, (I can handle that) but because I feel Y2k dark days has the potential of being REALLY dark. The more poeple (not related, not close friends) that I tell, the more people I will have to turn away (maybe with a gun in hand). They will come to our house, knowing we have food, because I have told them BUY EXTRA FOOD! People are not doing anything anyway.

I still call my closest friends and my family and quiz them on how much is done and what they still plan to do ( Just lighting a fire under them ).

I wish you the best of luck "sounding the alarm". I hope many many people will GI in your area, as they are not in mine.

Bulldog

-- bulldog (sniffin@around.com), June 03, 1999.

Rob and all, I have been front and center with Y2K Community preparations for over a year now. I flew to Boulder (at my own expense) to contribute to their wonderful meeting last August and came away thinking I could save the world or at least my community. I'm treasurer of my local Y2K Community Action group (northern va). I've written papers and brochures, given lectures, spoke to family, friends, neighbors, handed out y2k info in freezing weather at our local subway stations. I've worn out the path to Costco and Shoppers and Walmart. My basement is full, I have 10 - 55 gal barrels and hundreds of 2 liter bottles ready for water. etc.... What else can I do? And still very few people are even polite to me any more regarding y2k. I get the standard - "Oh, I'll come to your house if I need anything, ha, ha, ha" line at least once a day now. At first I thought these folks were joking until I thought about what I would do if I hadn't prepared (which, of course, is WHY I did prepare). I would go to the best possible and closest source and beg (if I had to) for food and water for my children. I KNOW I WOULD! So what am I to do now? Many people in my community know where I live and several have seen my y2k storage room and my barrels. So now I'm actively looking for a rural 'weekend' place so I have somewhere to go where no one knows how to find me. Its horrible to even think that way! But after much thought I really have no choice. I just hope I can find something that works for my family in time. Good Luck to you Rob. I'll keep attending my local y2k meetings and as a Girl Scout I'll help where I am needed. But I really don't think it will do too much good as the GI's already have made plans and the DGI's can't or won't get it. It breaks my heart to even put this down in writing but I really wanted to comment on your important question. And yes, I am part of a community... a community where neighbors don't even know the names of their fellow neighbors (welcome to NO VA), a community that laughs at me at every opportunity, will do nothing to prepare, will think nothing of coming to me for help if its bad and EXPECT me to cough up the goods they need but didn't store, and will continue to riducule if if its not too bad. My gut (which has seen me through many "adventures") is telling me to get the heck out of Dodge. So that's what I'm doing.

-- Gail (fialkow@erols.com), June 03, 1999.

Rob, I started a thread several months ago saying that I had stopped talking about y2k except among my closest family members because I heard the "I'll just come over to your house" line one too many times -- and some people had stopped smiling when they said it. Many of the responses echoed what you're seeing on this thread. It was that first "predator sighting," to quote Cory, that really shut me up. I still have the reputation at the office of being the in-house y2k expert. People come in and talk to me privately -- even top management on several occasions -- and I steer them to resources without talking about my own preps. Publicly I say it could be bad, it could be worse than bad, but you have to make up your own mind and act accordingly, and that's only when I'm asked.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), June 03, 1999.

Rob,

I am digging in. I will fight on. I will keep on keeping. There are people who will prepare if they come to know about it from another human being. This is not something that is communicating well by other means. Instead, it seems to require human beings connecting with other human beings... connecting, building a relationship (if it wasn't there, already), and building a trust (if trust too wasn't there, already) in which two human beings can trust in the simple concern of one for another.

The challenge, then, is to build some kind of relationship and trust as quickly as possible. Otherwise, it is unlikely that people are going to hear you out. It doesn't matter if the people are relatives, friends, acquaintances, or strangers. If there is no connection, no relationship, no trust... it is likely that they won't hear what you have to say. Not until they have seen the panic on the news or they have seen for themselves people fighting over the last things on the grocer's shelves.

Some GIs are unwilling to make the further committment. Others may be hardening their hearts to the anticipated cry of the stranger (or not so stranger) on New Year's day. But if they are hardening their hearts to those they would call "grasshoppers," these people may very well be circumsizing their humanity. I'm not the judge of whether or not this is the case for such and such a person. In the very least, they will be their own judges. They will know themselves and rejoice or bemoan their doings.

No man is an island-- however strongly it is wished and imagined. We can never be fully ourselves without others. This will become all the more clear if Y2K turns out to be more than a bump in the road. In fact, the opportunity (and that which is coming) to do good is great. There is an opportunity for each of us to harden virtues (as opposed to hardening the heart) into habits and to clear ice choked channels that run through our hardened hearts. Now is the time to become truly one's self.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), June 03, 1999.

Each person can only take so much abuse before they must ration their emotional energy. Priorities. Its so easy to get wacked mentally because of the TREMENDOUS effort made by the political powers to sooth the crowd. They want to hear soothing words. They do not want to hear words which could disturb their emotional state of equalibrium.

I have consoled myself by preparing for my neighbors as well as myself. When they wake up they will ask for help. I'll be there for them. After that they will be there for me..and will never forget it either. (live rural)

Most people will wait to do anything. Even those who know of the problem will wait. Its just too difficult for them to prepare for hard times. This is so very hard to watch, like a sickness. Very hard times are coming. What matters most, reall truly most, is how people deal with this TOGETHER. If I shoot a rabbit will I share it? If he cuts some wood will he share it? Neighborhood watches? Quilting parties? What will we do together to help each other? What about the older ones who are by themselves? Or strangers who are sick?

AS much as we try to help ourselves we must also always consider those around us in the equation. Even if we have stopped warning people verbally we must never stop preparing for them if at all possible. This is a future commitment.

-- -. (dit@dash.dot), June 03, 1999.

People mocked/mock Milne, but he predicted this two years ago, even as he was exhorting and, yeah, browbeating people into preparing. That is, he predicted how the "masses" would respond to those who had been sensible enough to prepare. Many of us pooh-poohed him (no, communities will GI, pull together, help one another, etc).

Yes, there has been/will be SOME of that. Not nearly enough.

And are you prepared to bet your family's life on it?

Getting out of Dodge makes good sense and even in my highly rural neck of the woods, far TOO MANY people know about us. I'm just hoping/praying the net benefit of helpful farmer/neighbors (and boy, are they ever armed too, just as a matter of routine) will outweigh the net loss of the DWGIs, including too many area "friends." Fortunately, even many of DWGIs are farmers, self-reliant, things to trade, but not all. Not all.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 03, 1999.

Seems alot of other G.I.'s feel the same way I do. My family and friends have made up their minds. 99% of the people I've talked about Y2K with don't care. What can my wife and I do about the people we love, never mind people we like if they don't want to get it. The worst thing for us is that we don't have alot of money, Unlike our family and most of our friends that are well off. What we have spent in the past year in supplies is pocket change to them. What I fear is "rich" friends and family that come knocking when their money is no good anymore. My wife and I have paid a price to be ready for Y2K. I've talked to these people about Y2K and tried to make sure every one has the same info I have about Y2K, so they can draw there own conclusions. Most don't care, Think I'm nuts, or I'm going to shoot people because I own a gun. So at this point I don't bring up the subject of Y2K with people I've talked to already, and never talk about firearms with anyone who doesn't bring it up first. The cost of feeling it is my duty to inform people is now they all know I'm going to be warm,safe, and eating well if the shit hits the fan. I know now that I will not turn away friends and family I've warned. I'm not that kind of person. I just hope they "Get It" on there own before It's to late for all of us.

-- Greenthumb G.I. (greenthumb@i.g.i), June 03, 1999.

I am in COMPLETE agreement with ALL of the above, except : Mishee, God helps those who help THEMSELVES. And Stan, I'll be "connecting to my fellow man" on MY terms, and MY terms alone. When I decide, NOT them. The calendar tells me, boys and girls, that it really is.....*JUNE 1999*

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 03, 1999.

I'm not into squishy psych stuff, but I do feel I/we need to "work through" a little bit of anticipatory anger on this (ie, I'm going to furious early next year at DWGIs as a first reaction), so our heads are somewhat unclouded when quick response is required to DIFFERENT types of folks.

If I snarl, I want it to be for good reason, just pent-up frustration.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 03, 1999.

I am an activist by profession. My credibility and reputation has been built up over the past decade upon a foundation of serious in-depth research into particular issues.

Our early local community y2k efforts were promoted accompanied by a healthy dollup of minority political and religious beliefs. These beliefs are not even pc among the local mainstream population, which is extremely conservative. Any y2k information given with this dosage of other agendas has been largely shunned by the mainstream.

In addition, early y2k activists painted the TEOTWAWKI scenario as people huddling around barrels in parking lots trying to cook meals or roving human predators attacking suburban homes for their stash. Scared the living beejesus out of the LOLs. Concerned sons and daughters calmed the fears by discounting the issue.

IMHO, it could have been handled a heck of a lot better by focussing on what could be done easily by most people. This was started by the local extension home economist, but she dropped the ball after one article on food acquisition. Her article focussed strictly on the mechanics of how to and did not stray into the emotional political and religious rhetoric.

"Mainstream" conservative activisit groups have run from the issue like the plague, fearing to be associated with "wacko" "cultist" labels pinned on groups by the media/establishment "spin." The broad brush could "infect" their credibility on the other issues they have worked so hard to promote. For this reason, I have been forbidden to discuss the issue officially in public where it could be associated with my group.

The directors on my Board routinely disassociate from what they perceive to be "extremist" views. Although I have given them info. on how y2k could effect their operations, they have discounted it as "alarmist." Leadership on y2k remediation has not come down through industry channels, the government "spin" has been "no big problem," so what I tell them could not be so. (Few have computer access.)

The best I could do is convince them to form a committee to investigate. IMHO, the committee was given poor advice on embedded chips by so-called "experts" at the local computer store and equipment dealers, so they are convinced that they have no risk exposure. I am even forbidden to place progress reports on office remediation on the agenda. No budget is alloted for the effort. I do maintain an extensive informational webpage on y2k, but I get away with it because my directors have never seen it - lol.

In my personal contingency planning for my family, I am not silent on my concerns for y2k impacts with local suppliers. Some understand, a few have tried to talk me out of projects, one even refused his professional services on the basis that he thought it was entirely unecessary and it would be unethical of him to do the work. (There is sort of a protective "man" element there, as I am "only a woman" and my judgement or ability to complete some projects is questioned.)

I have found if I laugh with them at myself, accepting the perceptive label as that "crazy lady" with her "crazy projects," they will offer helpfull hints on how to do things better and cheaper.

I cannot help but believe that my reputation as a credible serious informational source on so many technical issues may give them pause to consider that I may just know something that they don't about y2k. Hopefully, this will give them some pause to look into the matter further as regards their own families. We have a good Bd. of County Supervisors who have been leaders in local county government preparation. Their task force recommends two weeks preps. for the city and up to 6 months for remote areas, which is normal for isolation due to floods and wildfire emergencies. A lot has been done behind the scenes to remediate, investigate the "what ifs" and to prepare for them. It is being taken very seriously. Unfortunately, due to the early atmosphere created, it has remained in the background, awaiting a public rebirth for a re-awakening of the mainstream.

I hope my experience will be helpfull to the new generation of community activists and those who have been waiting in the wings to step forward with practical knowledge on how to prepare with focus. You are like seeds that have been scattered waiting for the warmth of spring to emerge.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), June 03, 1999.

Good point Big Dog. I'll take "pissed" over "in tears" any day, however. MY anger is my way of dealing with my gief over what SO many are about to mindlessly do to themselves. I can hardly stand to really look closely at children anymore. If I'm grieving, (been there, done that, more times than most) I'll be of little use to anyone. Anger, really gets me moving and doing though! Get me pumped- up and torked off about something, and you'd BETTER get out of my road! Whimps are going to be in really big trouble, in 6 months OR LESS! Get tough, get up, start thinking on your feet, people. (I'm NOW going to go milk a goat, while listening to some Scottish fiddle, and get my blood-pressure under control again. HA) That thread about loosing our Constitutional rights...pumped me up MORE than watching "Brave Heart"....phewwww

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 03, 1999.

I think the anti-intellectualism that pervades this society has made it difficult to get the message across. Who makes more money - a doctor or a football player? I guess we'll reap what we sow.

-- Sorry I'm at work (abcdef@aol.com), June 03, 1999.

I feel like I'm at group therapy and I stand up and say, "Hi. I'm Dave and I believe y2k will be a problem." An then all you folks in unison say, "Hi Dave."

In a nutshell (excuse the term), "I'm fried". (That's the part where you all in unison say, "Hi Fried").

I can't convince anybody beyond the intellectual level -- they get the puzzle pieces but they can't put them together. One of my colleagues looks like he's getting it, but he's taking a millennium trip to Venzuela. (I guess flights to Italy and Russia were already booked.) Being at a major University, I've got lots of friends who are really "booksmart" and they don't get it at all.

I haven't quit, but I think it's cause I'm just stubborn.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), June 03, 1999.

Big Dog, If you snarl, you want it to be for good reason, *not* just pent-up frustration. Right? (grin)

Will Continue, anger is almost a natural virtue (at least, according to Aristotle), but there are too many problems that follow behind it.

Marsh, perhaps you could start some threads on how to be an effective activist and effectively communicate the potential threats of Y2K.

Gail, howdy neighbor! Will I be seeing you this Friday at the Carla Emery event?

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), June 03, 1999.

Rob,

Im observing and receive info from several Y2k activists e- listserves. The same frustration expressed here is there as well.

Personally, I think it will heat up again in the fall as the dread deadline looms. Summer feels like the time to prepare for the Y2K endgame and have all the helpful links, prep checklists, personal contingency plan suggestions, etc., ready-to-go for the newly motivated, that are willing to do at least one to two weeks worth of getting ready for the great unknowns. (Poor babies).

Also, I think this whole things going to keep going for the first 6 months of next year when people are in reactive mode and need How to deal with xx suggestions.

I also suspect the internet will be up and running in many--not all-- places and be a sluggish source of what do I do now posts?

My town? DWGIs rule.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 03, 1999.

Aware & Preparing for years. Moved to rurals,etc. Began ringing bell a year ago. Most thought I was a nut. Now,many are starting=good. Still need to be careful like Big Dog reported. Sad and can be scarry. A question of ethics and pragmatics. But still ringing the bell-more carefully. But write newsletter which goes to thousands and carefully include material. Same in lectures and on conference planning and have a GI Board,lawyer,CPA and family. I think it is Psychology. Mine not giving in to fear,yet wondering about practical? Trying to remember people use denial to cope. However,North cautions they wont prepare but they will remember. I guess its not black or white.

-- Ruth the Moab (aapm@aapainmanage.org), June 03, 1999.

Hey Stan, No I won't be able to attend the Carla Emery Program as my sweet younger daughter will be celebrating her 6th birthyday with her "crazy" mom! - Now y'all know why I prepare! Be well! Hope to meet you soon!

-- Gail (fialkow@erols.com), June 03, 1999.

Not to discourage anyone for doing what they think is best for themselves, but I believe that any major/lengthy stoppage in fuel, power, communications or transportation would probably negate individaul preparation in most urban areas. I will have on hand what I can afford and, have time to prepare, but I exspect to see the National Guard outside my window (not a wish, just a prediction)if any of the above mentioned occurs.

ps. Don't anyone ever take grammer lessons from me! pps. Rebuttals ENCOURAGED! (so I can sleep @night)

-- MidwestMike_ (midwestmike_@hotmail.com), June 03, 1999.

I would like to explain the reasoning behind my post above. I if we, in an urban/suburban environment lose a vital such as power for an extended period (such as a month), the most we can hope for is to live BETTER than others in our area for the time that thier supplies last. Considering that 95% of the people DGI/DWGI that puts odds against us at 20 to 1 (probably a generous estimate). Once these people begin to starve nothing will stop them from getting what you have eventually. If you stop them from getting in initially, my bet is they will burn you out. Most GI's, even the most prepaired will have little defense against fire. I will keep rining my little bell but things do indeed look grimm from where I sit.

-- MidwestMike_ (midwestmike_@hotmail.com), June 03, 1999.

Midwest Mike,

I must disagree with your Nat'l Guard scenario. Not because I think our "beloved" gov't wouldn't stoop to it, but because of the law of diminishing returns. A couple of points if I may...

1) How much food could be "practically" retrieved from the 0.01% of us that are stocking up, versus the "takover and administration" of major regional food distribution centers, such as those used by the major chain food stores? I mean, those centers are on major shipping (road/rail) hubs, and our suburban/rural storage facilities (what FEW there are) would pose a delivery problem.

2) What would the COST be in lives (NG/Army, as well as civilians) as they went "door-to-door" and demanded to conduct a warrantless search (in time of emergency) upon panicked, ARMED citizens. No, I think cooler heads would prevail.

I think the REAL threat is from the freaked out NEIGHBORS.

BUT, these are MY OPINIONS ONLY.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 03, 1999.

Midwest mike, I too expect to see National Guard coming across my field, but remember, those folks are our neighbors. MANY are unhappy with the current administration. Same for our active duty personell. I anticipate seeing militia groups showing up and coming out of hiding (and I DO mean the real thing...not these wanna-bes). I'm close enough to Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico and Colorado, to make me feel a little better about that. If TSHTF, we will see new boundries drawn. I'd love to know what is going on behind THOSE scenes....there IS "rumbling". Surely, Y2K aside, they've just about swallowed all they intend to! By the way Stan, there is a huge difference between anger and rage. I've suffered from both and agree with your assesment! However, in my own opinion...the thoughful, talking-heads seem to have created far more trouble to date (in respect to this crisis). Let's form another commitee or have one more debate, pay for one more study or examine one more graph! In *JUNE 1999*, A Carla Emery presentation won't do the "truely needy" a whole lot of good, unless they think they can sell thier townhouses and move to the country, where you don't have city ordinances against keeping so much as a chicken!. I'm not going because I'm "living" Carla Emery, and I thank God for that every passing day, as the clock continues to tick, tick, tick.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 03, 1999.

I had worked for over a year trying to raise awareness in my community and among my family and friends around the country. I emailed web pages and links, wrote a newsletter, spoke at churches.

Because of my work as a Paul Revere, a few folks have a few more cans of tuna on the shelves, one bought a kerosene heater (but refuses to keep anymore than 15 gallons of fuel on hand), one bought a water filter and a baygen radio before deciding they had done enough. Another did get a woodstove and did a little canning. I suppose these are small successes. The vast majority I have been in contact with have done absolutely nothing, and intend to do absolutely nothing unless they see some big event with their own eyes.

A small church that I worked with has done some good preps and probably can easily ride out a 5-7. This church is my only real Y2K awareness success, and that is about a 50 person impact.

And if everyone in the last year who has said if it really gets bad Ill come eat out of your garden actually show up, I will have hundreds camped on my yard. At best I could feed another five or six beyond my family.

Sensing that I wasnt getting very far with very many people, that the positions had hardened, I said bye to Y2K activism in March. I stopped the newsletter, and stopped speaking. I have put my head down and finished my preps. I now only talk about Y2K when asked, in private.

I will talk to people who ask about general preparations. I purposely avoid speaking about specific recommendations. I have had the sinking feeling over the last two months that talking about Y2K preparations was painting a large bulls-eye on myself and my family.

I have learned a lot about the modern American mind in the last year. Im not impressed, or particularly hopeful given what Ive seen.

At first I felt guilty for not passing on Y2K info or prep ideas when I did find a choice tidbit. Now I go out and hoe my garden till and the feeling goes away.

Going to go plant some St. Johns Wort....

-- BigT (prepping@foraten.com), June 03, 1999.

Will Continue,

I don't begrudge you your good fortune to live in the countryside and know how to live off the land. And a one day seminar with Carla is not going to make any difference in my life... if I don't do anything more with what I learned from her and what I remember from the farm. I admit that I don't remember much. (laughing) But I get the impression that you are worried that city GIs will come knocking on your door. So put a sign in the yard with a skull and cross bones and if my bugging out takes me your way, I'll know where not to stop and ask for help. Not that I intend to need help, but you never know. As long as my family is safe, I'll be here lending a hand and fighting hard to keep civilization.

Furthermore, I understand your strong frustration over the DGIs and DWGIs. Some just don't seem fit of mind enough to understand the dangers that lie ahead. Some won't ever be convinced. They just won't make a connection to you until it would be a real inconveinence to you. Obviously, you aren't responsible for them being unable to make that connection. What you think you will do when they come and knock on your door may not be so black and white. Imagine filling some mom or dad with lead as they hold their child in their arms. Turns out it was the guy who stopped to help you fix a flat tire last year. When you imagine a situation like that, it can only be more frustrating.

There are no easy answers. There will be many difficult decisions to make. That's life.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), June 03, 1999.

Thanks Stan, but I'm alot more worried about the city DGI's knocking on your door. The point I've been trying to make, is that well- meaning folks are putting neon signs on thier heads saying, "Y2K BAIT". That's all. This was not the case 6 months ago. It is the truth TODAY.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 03, 1999.

Will Continue,

I do expect people to come my way: neighbors, family, and strangers. And I will be glad to give out cans of Dinty Moore Beef Stew (one per family until the case is gone) and send them on their way with wishes that they find shelter, food, and water with Godspeed. Now, if God tells me to board up the windows and doors... or jump into my truck and go... that's that. Until God tells me what to do exactly, I will try to be a reasonable Christian. If people were to try to take by force, I hope to meet any *real* threat to me and mine with *appropriate* force. I won't be shooting Lazarus in the head as he sits on my driveway. And the Lazarus story is a very interesting lesson to consider.

Here's this guy who is sitting there outside the gate... apparently doing no good. We might easily imagine that Lazarus is a blemish to the property he sits in front of; he is an eye sore and likely smelled quite bad. Did Lazarus ever offer to groom the dogs and clean their kennels for a crust of bread? It is obvious that the details of Lazarus' life are unimportant; it does not matter whether he is a bum or even someone who lost everything through no fault of their own. It doesn't matter if he offered his labor or not. What is important is that the unlucky rich man ignored Lazarus, his hunger, and suffering.

The story of Lazarus is an interesting fable. For some, it turns over the morality of the ant and the grasshopper fable. It just depends on whether you are more Greek than you are Christian. Is Aesop more worthwhile than Christ? And what about Buddha who supposedly threw himself down to a hungry tiger's cub when he was a deer? That goes at least one step more in the other direction of the ant and grasshopper fable.

I'm not saying that I don't get upset when I think about how friends, relatives, and neighbors may show up at my door like locusts. I certainly get upset when I think about how they looked at me funny... rolled their eyes and laughed. I think I will be more happier to help a stranger than someone that I know and have warned (to no good end). I'm not saying that I don't get mad at the thought. I do get angry. But that frustration doesn't get in the way of my trying to help those who want my help. Nor am I overly concerned that they will burn me out of my house, crash through the windows and doors, and turn against me like wild animals. Don't you let your imagination get the better of you.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), June 03, 1999.

All very good points Stan. We've made MANY preparations for our four neighbors and have some form of housing in place for those we love who come knocking on our door with pitiful looks. Now, having said that...it appears to me that you AREN'T looking at the state of "humanity" in an realistic way. Just remember, Stan, when God sent us his only Son....we nailed the poor man to a cross! Wake up and do yourself a favor. Many on this forum, yam about the "denial" of so many, and yet when asked to "rate" this crisis..they can come up with a 5 or less? Perhaps, GI's need to look at the possibility they may THEMSELVES be in denial. I believe they are. I've lurked and read this forum for the past year....I'm done preparing and feel it may be time for someone to speak on the behalf of 7 or greater. (actually, a 7 could turn into a 10 in the beat of a hummingbird's wing) Examine who we've lost here recently and then ask yourself what do they know that I don't???????? Carla Emery is for newbies and DGI's. So are Ko- skin-em's town "happy face" chats. Just because someone gets it, doesn't mean they need stop conducting reality checks, and consider changing thier position. It is, after all, *JUNE 1999*

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 03, 1999.

Will,

I knew we had more to agree on than first seemed apparent. (laughing) I'll even outright agree with you. There is a possibility that some GIs (myself included) don't want to deal with the possibilities of an 8, 9, or worse. In fact, if you read my "place your bets" post, I tried to deal with this consideration. It is highly unlikely that I can prepare me and mine to ride out an 8 or 9 (never mind them pesky neighbors, relatives, friends, and strangers) without a hard sweat.

That doesn't mean that I'm not doing my best to make the kind of preparations that would continue to serve me and mine through harder times. Some of the most expensive costs in my preps are because I wanted some long term reliability including dehydrated foods, a wood burning stove, and small depression-proof investments. I think me and mine may make it through a great depression with some temporary infrastructure failures. But if it is a Doomer 12, just pray for me!

In terms of prep talk, I am more than happy to see people do anything from two weeks to one month of preparations. That will give these people time to get perspective on the situation. It is also the kind of time that locals will need to organize and pull together-- if things start going very bad. (laughing) Two weeks to one month buys some real time to keep civilization in tact and as long as the system is not broken, it has a better chance of staying up and getting fixed.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), June 03, 1999.

My wife, several children, and I have been preparing for several years, for a collapse of some form. God's just put it on our hearts and we've kept obeying. Last year I gave 6 seminars to groups on how to prepare, based on our experience and research. I have 17 years experience programming large systems. I became convinced in early 1997 that Y2k would yield serious disruptions like no power in some large regions for months. I extrapolate that, or no social security checks for a couple months, or whatever and I saw mayhem. America's military does not consider limit nuclear exchange tenable, but the USSR/Russia has continued to PLAN for it. Even if you think the risks low, the stakes are high. I can't help but to try to warn people. But on January 1, 1999 I gave my last all day seminar. (free as usual). I gave one since in my home to a very few neighbors, who already GI (got it). I figured that those that were going to GI had, and those that didn't wouldn't get it until too late, at which point I'm just inviting (more) doorstep problems. Too much family prep and fix up work, and family time was given away for free last year and before. Now I don't give seminars, I work with my children on fixup projects, storing more food, take walks with them. We spent over a thousand hours helping people last year- the seminars and a lot on the phone. That cost a lot! ANother take: I have some sense that God is going to judge our nation in a big way. I think He already has started. At least it seems the long presidential trauma and tale will soon be behind. The reason that most Americans want to get it behind is because if they faced it, it would be like looking in a mirror. But just getting it behind us doesn't mean that God will forget it. John McTernan, in his book, God's Final Warning to America, has supplied incident after incident where natural disasters, which are increasing, have been associated with national sins in recent years. On the day the presidential impeachment charge was turned over to the Senate, and two days before the State of the Union address, 20 tornadoes roared through Arkansas and Tennessee, the home states of the president and the vice-president. On the day the president's lawyers began a defense of the president, and the day after the State of the Union address, 38 tornadoes roared through Arkansas and Tennessee. Even the capitol building in Little Rock was trashed. It seems as though God has already cast His vote. As strange as 58 tornadoes in just two states in just four days is, it is even more strange in view of the fact that tornadoes in January seldom ever occur, except in the deep South (Florida and south Texas). This past January there were 300 percent more tornadoes than were ever recorded for this month. Again, is God trying to tell us something? It would appear more than coincidental that practically all of the 58 tornadoes visited the home states of our president and vice-president. Check out http://www.aplus-software.com/thglory/america2.htm for examples of other warning judgements. If God is going to judge our nation, how would He do so if we were all prepared? I can see something in people when they refuse to Get It (GI). They're "blinded". There's nothing I can do to persuade them. So late last year I started helping only those that gave evidence of not being blinded. I won't try to teach any more pigs to sing. (they sound awlful anyways). I've retained my sense of humor, as well as a well armed house. We are prepared for helping others, but there is a limit to how much we can offer. If we offer any help, we have to be prepared for when those extra preps run out. All the pigs I've tried to reach with the Y2k Blues, will come singing to me later, programmed as they are in the government propaganda camps, known as public schools, to a socialist mentality. There is a doorstep issue that most of the GIs do not want to deal with. But you're better off dealing with it now, and thinking about what you will do and why. The ideal way to deal with it is to avoid it, but if you've try to warn anyone, and even if you don't but have preps, you'll have to deal with it. There is a balance to reach. Not to hole up, but to love in real ways (food, TP). Not to sacrifice my family for the deliberate foolishness of others, but preserve my family for what purposes God has for us. I explain at seminars: I am not a survivalist. I am a survivor. A survivialist tries to survive for the sake of surviving. A survivor tries to survive for a higher purpose outside of themselves.(Living to raise your children, serving a purpose from God, being there to take care of your parents, etc). There's a lot of difference in the two mentalities; self centered or other centered. I maintain a small email list where I send out prep hints like potassium iodide sources, or news on the current risks such as solar cycles. But I have twice eliminated it and asked those that were still interested to email me and I started the list over. I am no longer reaching out to the DGIs. Why don't they GI? I believe I understand. From my experience in sharing the judgement of God and His mercy by means of turning to Jesus - I see a similiarty. When those listeners connect the dots in what I'm saying, they realize what they'll start having to do, or stop doing, and they are more interested in those things than the Truth. They turn down God. Or with Y2k, they figure "hmmm, if it's this bad I'll have to radically change my lifestyle, sell my golf clubs for lanterns, whatever." THey'd rather believe a lie than the truth. In the Bible, speaking of sinful people in general, God says in Romans chapter 1 that they know in their hearts what the truth about God is, but they refuse it and turn to a lie instead. And thus God gives them over to terrible things that come as a result of their actions. Yes, it's hard for me to think about, and very sad, but there could come a time when people I know well will suffer with radiation sickness and I will not give them what I have prepared for my children. I will not give them my children's portion of food; those grasshoppers who loved the things of the world more than truth will die. And I will shoot (to kill) any who take up force against us. Wounding produces only a myriad multiplication of problems. Prepared Polly Annas will die in their idealistic foolishness, as they expect people to be basically good, or rational. From a non-believing perspective, evolution in action. Balance. We must not try just to keep alive at all costs to just stay alive. But God has opened our eyes for a purpose. We must live for that purpose, though not at "any cost". We certainly must try as best we can to see that that purpose(s) is fulfilled. Giving away food intended to keep us alive would be like the man on the flooded house turning away sources of rescue. If God has given us the means to survive, we might well be resisting His will by giving those means away. And back again, if He's given us the means to help others, we must to extent He allows us to. No less. No more. We are sacrificing now, that we can survive. We are sacrificing now, that we can feed others, but to a lesser degree (since there are so many neighbors even out in the country). But we are not called to lay our lives down and sacrifice them to save foolish others. God might call us to do that, and by His grace we'll do that. But until so, I'll take care of my family even if I watch others die. (the example of the five wise, and five foolish virgins in Matthew 25) [500 lbs of white rice (1250 cups) at SAMs cost $139.50, and only requires water and heat to prepare. Adding 3-25 lb boxes of dried soup mix (600 cups) purchased in bulk for $450 from 877-925-4040 yields a healthy and tasty rice/vegetable mix, and enough to to make about 3600 cups of rice/veggie mix after cooking/rehydrating. Figure 3000 cups for margin, and $600 for food, you get about 20 cents per 1 cup serving. But that $600 out of your pocket, not the grasshopper's! I am sad and grieve a lot to consider the terrible times ahead, to think of the likely scenarios of a limited nuclear exchange, or a financial meltdown, or a Y2k crisis realized. I can see real possibility of tens of millions dying, and it is horrible to imagine. The bottom line, the Bible says that he who sees danger has to warn others or their blood is on their hands. But if they warn, and the listeners don't heed, their blood is on their own hands. I am responsible to warn, not to save. Ezekiel 3:17-21 I've warned my large circle of friends and family, most of them many times. Time to take of the home first. I can't save the world, or even my neighborhood. I'll save what I can. Those that GI. Same with the gospel- those that want to hear it, I share. I look for opportunities to share, both with gospel and Y2k/judgements. But I no longer try to "teach the pigs to sing". Senior Computer Scientist, and singing pig myself

-- Programmer Farmer (rural_life@home.org), June 03, 1999.

My wife, several children, and I have been preparing for several years, for a collapse of some form. God's just put it on our hearts and we've kept obeying. Last year I gave 6 seminars to groups on how to prepare, based on our experience and research. I have 17 years experience programming large systems. I became convinced in early 1997 that Y2k would yield serious disruptions like no power in some large regions for months. I extrapolate that, or no social security checks for a couple months, or whatever and I saw mayhem. America's military does not consider limit nuclear exchange tenable, but the USSR/Russia has continued to PLAN for it. Even if you think the risks low, the stakes are high. I can't help but to try to warn people. But on January 1, 1999 I gave my last all day seminar. (free as usual). I gave one since in my home to a very few neighbors, who already GI (got it). I figured that those that were going to GI had, and those that didn't wouldn't get it until too late, at which point I'm just inviting (more) doorstep problems. Too much family prep and fix up work, and family time was given away for free last year and before. Now I don't give seminars, I work with my children on fixup projects, storing more food, take walks with them. We spent over a thousand hours helping people last year- the seminars and a lot on the phone. That cost a lot! ANother take: I have some sense that God is going to judge our nation in a big way. I think He already has started. At least it seems the long presidential trauma and tale will soon be behind. The reason that most Americans want to get it behind is because if they faced it, it would be like looking in a mirror. But just getting it behind us doesn't mean that God will forget it. John McTernan, in his book, God's Final Warning to America, has supplied incident after incident where natural disasters, which are increasing, have been associated with national sins in recent years. On the day the presidential impeachment charge was turned over to the Senate, and two days before the State of the Union address, 20 tornadoes roared through Arkansas and Tennessee, the home states of the president and the vice-president. On the day the president's lawyers began a defense of the president, and the day after the State of the Union address, 38 tornadoes roared through Arkansas and Tennessee. Even the capitol building in Little Rock was trashed. It seems as though God has already cast His vote. As strange as 58 tornadoes in just two states in just four days is, it is even more strange in view of the fact that tornadoes in January seldom ever occur, except in the deep South (Florida and south Texas). This past January there were 300 percent more tornadoes than were ever recorded for this month. Again, is God trying to tell us something? It would appear more than coincidental that practically all of the 58 tornadoes visited the home states of our president and vice-president. Check out http://www.aplus-software.com/thglory/america2.htm for examples of other warning judgements. If God is going to judge our nation, how would He do so if we were all prepared? I can see something in people when they refuse to Get It (GI). They're "blinded". There's nothing I can do to persuade them. So late last year I started helping only those that gave evidence of not being blinded. I won't try to teach any more pigs to sing. (they sound awlful anyways). I've retained my sense of humor, as well as a well armed house. We are prepared for helping others, but there is a limit to how much we can offer. If we offer any help, we have to be prepared for when those extra preps run out. All the pigs I've tried to reach with the Y2k Blues, will come singing to me later, programmed as they are in the government propaganda camps, known as public schools, to a socialist mentality. There is a doorstep issue that most of the GIs do not want to deal with. But you're better off dealing with it now, and thinking about what you will do and why. The ideal way to deal with it is to avoid it, but if you've try to warn anyone, and even if you don't but have preps, you'll have to deal with it. There is a balance to reach. Not to hole up, but to love in real ways (food, TP). Not to sacrifice my family for the deliberate foolishness of others, but preserve my family for what purposes God has for us. I explain at seminars: I am not a survivalist. I am a survivor. A survivialist tries to survive for the sake of surviving. A survivor tries to survive for a higher purpose outside of themselves.(Living to raise your children, serving a purpose from God, being there to take care of your parents, etc). There's a lot of difference in the two mentalities; self centered or other centered. I maintain a small email list where I send out prep hints like potassium iodide sources, or news on the current risks such as solar cycles. But I have twice eliminated it and asked those that were still interested to email me and I started the list over. I am no longer reaching out to the DGIs. Why don't they GI? I believe I understand. From my experience in sharing the judgement of God and His mercy by means of turning to Jesus - I see a similiarty. When those listeners connect the dots in what I'm saying, they realize what they'll start having to do, or stop doing, and they are more interested in those things than the Truth. They turn down God. Or with Y2k, they figure "hmmm, if it's this bad I'll have to radically change my lifestyle, sell my golf clubs for lanterns, whatever." THey'd rather believe a lie than the truth. In the Bible, speaking of sinful people in general, God says in Romans chapter 1 that they know in their hearts what the truth about God is, but they refuse it and turn to a lie instead. And thus God gives them over to terrible things that come as a result of their actions. Yes, it's hard for me to think about, and very sad, but there could come a time when people I know well will suffer with radiation sickness and I will not give them what I have prepared for my children. I will not give them my children's portion of food; those grasshoppers who loved the things of the world more than truth will die. And I will shoot (to kill) any who take up force against us. Wounding produces only a myriad multiplication of problems. Prepared Polly Annas will die in their idealistic foolishness, as they expect people to be basically good, or rational. From a non-believing perspective, evolution in action. Balance. We must not try just to keep alive at all costs to just stay alive. But God has opened our eyes for a purpose. We must live for that purpose, though not at "any cost". We certainly must try as best we can to see that that purpose(s) is fulfilled. Giving away food intended to keep us alive would be like the man on the flooded house turning away sources of rescue. If God has given us the means to survive, we might well be resisting His will by giving those means away. And back again, if He's given us the means to help others, we must to extent He allows us to. No less. No more. We are sacrificing now, that we can survive. We are sacrificing now, that we can feed others, but to a lesser degree (since there are so many neighbors even out in the country). But we are not called to lay our lives down and sacrifice them to save foolish others. God might call us to do that, and by His grace we'll do that. But until so, I'll take care of my family even if I watch others die. (the example of the five wise, and five foolish virgins in Matthew 25) [500 lbs of white rice (1250 cups) at SAMs cost $139.50, and only requires water and heat to prepare. Adding 3-25 lb boxes of dried soup mix (600 cups) purchased in bulk for $450 from 877-925-4040 yields a healthy and tasty rice/vegetable mix, and enough to to make about 3600 cups of rice/veggie mix after cooking/rehydrating. Figure 3000 cups for margin, and $600 for food, you get about 20 cents per 1 cup serving. But that $600 out of your pocket, not the grasshopper's! I am sad and grieve a lot to consider the terrible times ahead, to think of the likely scenarios of a limited nuclear exchange, or a financial meltdown, or a Y2k crisis realized. I can see real possibility of tens of millions dying, and it is horrible to imagine. The bottom line, the Bible says that he who sees danger has to warn others or their blood is on their hands. But if they warn, and the listeners don't heed, their blood is on their own hands. I am responsible to warn, not to save. Ezekiel 3:17-21 I've warned my large circle of friends and family, most of them many times. Time to take of the home first. I can't save the world, or even my neighborhood. I'll save what I can. Those that GI. Same with the gospel- those that want to hear it, I share. I look for opportunities to share, both with gospel and Y2k/judgements. But I no longer try to "teach the pigs to sing". Senior Computer Scientist, and singing pig myself

-- Programmer Farmer (twb@fame.com), June 03, 1999.

Programmer Farmer said, "The bottom line, the Bible says that he who sees danger has to warn others or their blood is on their hands. But if they warn, and the listeners don't heed, their blood is on their own hands."

This is profoundly true and is not only an Old Testament teaching. Think the Lord Jesus' words to Jerusalem ......

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 03, 1999.

Right on Stan...we DO have more in common than you thought. I already knew that, because I felt exactly like you do....until January. The amount of food one stores is unfortunately no longer the issue, once looting, riots, burning, and murder comes into view. I'm so very sorry that I feel that way now. I can't see how it will be avoided. God Bless you and your family. All anybody can do, is do thier best.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 03, 1999.

If not us, who? If not now, when? I do not know who said this, or the context, but these words rang in my ears today as I contemplated responses that might be on this thread. Thanks to all of you for what turned out to be so many thoughtful answers. I have come to the conclusion that while Y2K activism is not necessarily dying, it is muted or dormant. Where there were shouts before, now there are whispers or silence. Perhaps the pendulum will swing again. If you at least try, and they do not listen, you can know in your heart that you tried, and maybe, just maybe, they will get it before its too late. If they do not listen you are blameless. If you never try, what chance do they have? What if you were the Don't Get It? When Y2K hits who would you want for your neighbor?

Some are worried about folks raiding their home. The greater the number of prepared people that live around you the better, dont you think? Ask yourself who is likely to come knocking at your door in desperation: people that have prepared or people that have not prepared? Does risk increase or decrease by trying to get neighbors to make prudent preparations? I have my answer, which may be the opposite of yours. If there is a price to be paid for trying to help someone else, will it turn out to be less or greater than the price of doing nothing now, when you could still have made a difference in helping someone?

It is your choice, both to live with and to die with. Choose well.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 03, 1999.

I think the people preparing are doing so more quietly now. I've given up trying to convince anyone- can't even convince my own mother. You either get it or you don't-I think it comes down to that. I think you have to have an imagination that will aloow you to see what could really happen- that's too much for some people. Also- most people in this country have lived lives without deprivation. The depression generation is elderly. Most of us have never had it hard and don't believe it could happen to us because "they" won't allow it. They won't believe until they experience it firsthand.

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), June 03, 1999.

"Is y2k activism dying?"

Yes. Finally.

-- L T L (NOYB@this.time), June 03, 1999.

Anita: Yes, more quietly. Some people who you would swear dont get it may surprise you weeks, even months later. It has happened repeatedly to me, though considering how many I have tried with the ratio is still low. I agree about most people here having had it great through the baby boom, gen-x, and now the millennium generations. People will never see what they do not want to. Human nature.

This, combined with three generations of no widespread deprivation, leads us to where we are now. At such a time when moral leadership is needed most, we have it least. Instead we have self-indulgence, mindless entertainment, escape from responsibility where everyone is a victim, political correctness, something for nothing, me first, ethical and moral values replaced with materialism, etc. Yet a period of consequences and personal responsibility awaits on the horizon, as we go from uncertainty to uncertainty, and the clocks tick inexorably on.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 03, 1999.

Rob, as we all know from similar threads on this subject over the months, one size does not fit all (especially with respect to location-differences) and the situation is dynamic.

I do try to be very attentive to individuals (as I think many Yourdonites are routinely) and equally attentive to the community "spirit" on the subject in my locality. If/as I sense a community opening, perhaps later this year, I will probably re-engage (for instance, pick up my county newspaper Y2K column). But if I do it, it will be with great trepidation, for reasons already stated.

It's not coincidental that I intend to be a crack shot by the end of the year, though I pray that I will never need to fire AT somebody ....

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 03, 1999.

Hi BigDog. If the 'opening' happens in the community, wouldn't that in and of itself decrease your trepidation? In re-engaging, you don't have to put the pedal to the metal. One step at a time may be possible, and hopefully not a luxury.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 03, 1999.

My spouse and I find ourselves increasingly circumspect when it comes to 'spreading the word'. We have been actively involved with our neighborhood revitalization group for years, and raised awareness of this problem a year ago. Not many wanted to hear it then, even fewer want to now. Our immediate neighbors lead similar lives as we do - naturally as self reliant as we can be, just by our nature. We've shared information with them when it has come up in conversation, and they are preparing - all at different levels, and in various degrees. We've been amazed at the mind set of some of the older folks who went through hard times during the Depression; most can't believe that it will be 'allowed' to happen again in their lifetimes! Most of the people we notice that have "Got It" are those in our age group - 40's to 50's.

We have stopped 'volunteering' information to those that aren't receptive to discussion. We do help those that demonstrate awareness and a need to prepare, but instead of handing our printed materials, we try to point the people in the direction of readily available resources, so they can *see* for themselves what they need to do. This issue is not unlike any other 'learning experience', in that those that truly *want* to learn, WILL, and those that are 'reluctant' students will NEVER 'get it', no matter how effective of a teacher one is. We have taken the role of mentor and tutor, and have discarded the "Paul Revere" role as we feel it is too risky at this stage.

Our own family is a mixed bag; my mother is a self sufficient 74 year old widow that is a "GI" - yet several months ago I had to 'lay down the law' and almost 'command' her to quit thinking about this and start preparing, NOW! (Talk about 'role reversals'!) Thankfully, she got off her duff, and has made amazing progress. My one set of in-laws (both past retirement age)say they "GI", and have made more modest preps, but have begun to step this up in the last few weeks. Our real concern is the 'other' set of in-laws; neither one think that our government will 'let it happen', and absolutely think it's all nonsense. We've talked and talked about with them, and have all but given up on them *ever* getting it, so we have included their needs into our preparations. We don't even bring it up any more - just prepare for the eventuality that they'll be with us. Our daughter's family is preparing, but have limited funds, so we are anticipating helping them out also. We are fotunate in that our home can (and *will* - if the need arises) house 4 extra families, and we prepare toward that scenario. Talk about an extended family!

One thing I haven't seen discussed is how the social dynamics of family and groups will almost certainly change if it really gets bad. How are the DGI's and Didn't Wanna Git It's act/react when they realize that they were wrong and have to stay with family or friends? How are the *providers* going to treat the people they are taking in? I can see some real 'turf wars' erupting in families where the older generation will be very dependant on their children. How will they react to this 'role reversal', especially if they had been quite independent up until this event? How will the 'providers' respond? I can imagine this will be an *interesting* time for many families, especially in a patriarchial type family situation where the patriarch was a DGI, and now is forced to rely on the grace and provisions of the offspring.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), June 03, 1999.

Stan - you asked about effective activism. I am a professional grassroots "property rights" activist for a non-profit representing family ag, timber, mining, and small landowners (e.g. natural resources interests.)

I was educated as an historian, so my personal "style" tends to the technical. We bring to activism what we do best and tend to make the job fit our particular bendt. I write technical public comment on proposed regulation, stimulate letter writing campaigns on proposed legislation, speak at luncheons, write editorials, introduce resolutions and ordinances to county government, chair and participate in various county and ad hoc task forcesand tech. advisory committees. I also research caselaw to reinforce my own "game rule" knowledge at the "table." I attend lots and lots of meetings. Most of these strategies are not the best for y2k.

I am also trained as a facilitator from a former corporate life where we introduced a formal process on team oriented problem solving. This would probably be a far better community oriented approach to contingency planning. If those on the thread will tolerate a description of that process, I will be glad to oblige.

One thing I would suggest for y2k activists is to read up on working with volunteers. Leaders need to identify the motivation of each volunteer (ego, social involvement, feeling needed.) Try to match the task with the motivation. For instance, don't put a "feeling needed" "people person" in a back store room where they have no personal contact with those they are helping. (BTW, this is not my forte.) Also, it is helpfull to deliminate tasks into bite sized pieces so that people can help as their time schedule permits.

IMHO, a good y2k leader may end up mostly "coaching" others and building their self-confidence and reinforcing the value of their efforts. His/her success is in building a strong group and developing new leaders - making himself dispensable. Just like a good manager. If you find the greatest satisfaction in helping newcomers orient to preparation, then, IMHO, that is where you should serve.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), June 04, 1999.

Wilferd: And they say that I ask vexing questions! Sheesh! Your last paragraph brings up the very important subject of social dynamics and how to handle family, friends, and possibly others that may need your help, including staying in your home. I remember there was a thread about this last year I think, but don't recall much other than a discussion that centered around the idea of establishing some groundrules and guidelines that addressed aspects of social dynamics. Perhaps the time is ripe for a new thread on this, or we can open it up here if anyone wants to disucss it. I'm up for it.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 04, 1999.