Hang around for a while, maybe we can have a closed forum. . .

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Could anyone offer us a closed forum for "doomers" only? Please hurry and set up before Ed closes this one.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 29, 1999

Answers

Old Git,

Is that what you really want? Only to communicate with those who agree completly with you? Isn't that communism? Are you so closed minded and set in your beliefs that you do not want to know if the situation changes from the way it was in the past?

A closed doomer forium would be like a group of drunks, they re-enforce each others justifications for doing and believing what the other does.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), May 29, 1999.


I'd like to have a forum. I am not too old to learn from others and share ideas....pro and con....right or wrong. I am not a communist....just an old Gramma.

-- Old Gramma (Gotitincalif@webtv.net), May 29, 1999.

Old Git:

What would you do about those who saw the light? Take away their secret password?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 29, 1999.


I'm not in favor of a closed forum at all. I'm a doomer and I don't like the polly trolls, but I don't like the doomer trolls either. A closed forum is like a closed mind. One needs to view all perspectives to get a well rounded picture. And, I do hope that this forum continues...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), May 29, 1999.

Is this forum closing? I did not see that in the goodbye message.

-- (need@to.know), May 29, 1999.


It was stated:

...I'm removing the Y2K articles, links, and resources from my web site...

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), May 29, 1999.


Tim,

If I'm not mistaken, this is Phil Greenspuns forum, I'll wait to see what he says about closeing this forum.

Just an idea, if this forum is closed, lets all met at De Bunker ( evil grin : )

-- CT (ct@no.yr), May 29, 1999.


I think it would serve no one to close this site, A closed forum would be useless to me. Last week you wanted everyone to Be Nice for the new people(Humans) that are here. So What's the deal, just taking care of YOUR self. I'm not a full page poster, I ask simple ?. I have recived some very HELPFUL infromation.

-- && (&&@&&.&), May 29, 1999.

Why not just migrate to the Y2K group on USENET?

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), May 29, 1999.

Assuming the forum is to continue, Ed will have to give the 'keys' to someone - the administrator's password. Nominations?

-- Ned (entaylor@cloudnet.com), May 29, 1999.


Despite the would be sensors that would like to force all discussions into the public perview, I for one would LOVE to find a private forum where discussions could be had between those who believe things are not goint to be rosy (doomeers). It would bother me not one wit to leave aside the cognitave-dissonance challenged (polys) and discuss how to make the future better regardsless of which set of events transpire.

I would like to add a note of thanks to the poster above who accuses Old Git of communism because she wants a closed forum. One doesn't see that level of humor often. I think I've seen the heights of ridiculousness to which human beings can reach and then someone like that comes along to shatter my illusions and provide such a good laugh. Thanks.

***

To Ed Yourdon:

You've done a great thing here. You've saved lives. This will be noted on the big scorecard. Things change. Thank Your for your efforts. Your name will always be held in high regard at the bear den.

It is a sad day for America. We have many more sad days coming. Not accepting this and preparing for it mentally and physicall will only make things worse. Your choice.

I wish all of you well. Yes, even you polys. You need good wishes more than those who are trying to prepare.

Godspeed to you who are trying to make for a better world.

If you remember nothing else the bear has ever said remember this:

N E V E R . G I V E . U P

-Greybear

--Got Will-to-Live?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), May 29, 1999.


Good point, CT. Let's hope Greenspun and allow this forum to continue.

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), May 29, 1999.

Old Git

I have to say that it would serve no purpose to have a closed forum. I am sure Ed is a person that understands the need for the forum and at least be giving us some lead time to figure out what to do. It would be easy to put up another forum but it would never be like this. I can set one up in an hour or less but don't even want to consider it till Ed lets us know his position in this matter. If he closes it that is his choice and I will repect it.

OG I think you are letting your emotions get the better of you on this matter. Setting up a forum is easy, giving it heart is totally another matter. And a closed forum will not achieve much for giving out heart.

All the best to you OG I know it must be hard

-- Brian (imager@home.com), May 29, 1999.


Old Git,

I'm with you. I would rather see a closed forum at this point in time. I am tired of the trolls and Pollys. I know what they have to say, and we know where to find their opinions. In fact the news is full of their opinion. We could share the ideas that truly bother us, and any real "good news" would certainly be available thru numerous other quality sites. This forum has gotten a bit too much, I think, what with the heated debates from the Polly crowd. If a closed forum were to pop up, I'd like that.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), May 29, 1999.


If this forum does close, SOMEONE please send ne a email at my address (its real) so we can stay in touch ---- I'll do the same.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), May 29, 1999.


I just tried to post a new question - and it has not appeared in the last 15 minutes....so I guess the system is not taking new questions. BOO HOO! There are so many practical, helpful things that I want to discuss with others - particularly in the gardening and food preservation area. Can ANYONE do anything to keep this forum "on the air"??????? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- jeanne (jeanne@hurry.now), May 29, 1999.

Did I decree there will be only one forum? Did I say nobody could have an open forum? Did it ever occur to you protesters and critics that there could be MORE than one forum? I personally, alone, my opinion only, not trying to persuade anyone else if they don't already want it, I would like a closed forum in line with what Gordon describes. If this forum closes and you want an open forum, then go work for one. I'm going to use what little free time I have to work for a closed forum somewhere else.

I, personally, etc., don't have time any more to wade through off-topic posts and nitpicky arguments that push useful stuff below the horizon. I'm tired of the juvenile name-calling and games. I want information I can put to good use. End of story.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 29, 1999.


Please include me in an email notification of a new forum such as Old Git is speaking of.

Peace be with you, Ed. See you on the other side.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), May 29, 1999.


The problem with freedom of speech is, it lets people say such *disagreeable* things.

I can picture it now (it's not hard -- check out the debunking forum which is mostly CPR talking to himself endlessly). Someone can post some suitably bad 'news' (most speculation about what *might* go wrong, but probably won't) and those who care to, can chip in saying yup, you're right again. Then they can all do it again. And again. And again.

I guess what's being proposed is two forums -- one for those who want to get this right, and the other for those who want to be *told* they're right.

I suggest Old Git spend her time sending herself reassuring e-mail messages, telling herself how bad things are going to be and how right she is to 'know' this. Clearly, this would be fully adequate to keep her happy. Who needs this outside opinion stuff anyway -- it's either in agreement or it's wrong and we don't want to hear it, right?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 29, 1999.


FLINT, THAT was not in keeping with your usual level of discourse! I find it hard to accept that this is representative of your thinking. Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), May 29, 1999.

This is the first thing that happens when a leader is gone- The troops fight among themselves and take sides. Please don't do it. There are various takes all over the web that any of us can go to. But a small troop helping each other is rare.

Old Git, you spoke for me at least. We are running out of time to waste. You don't have a lot. Neither do I.

-- Scat (sgcatique@webtv.net), May 29, 1999.


Sorry, Chuck, but the whole idea of a forum closed to disagreement is absurd. LOOK what happened at the debunker forum.

We learn by discussion, disagreement, and debate. We don't learn by sitting around telling one another how right we are. And if anybody doesn't need this forum, it's those who feel they've learned all they need to know.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 29, 1999.


Dear Old Git,

I have learned so much from you and others on this forum. I still will appreciate any help that I can get. If you start another forum please E-mail me. I would appreciate it.

Thank you, Marcy

-- Marcy (YCRAM410@aol.com), May 29, 1999.


No closed forum please. The trolls shoulb be ignored (and I know I'm the worst offender here), occasionally they make some sense and I want to hear all points of view.

There is always csy2k but I hate those trolls even more - a complete waste of time usually.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 29, 1999.


I agree with Andy 100%. csy2k has almost no discussion, and a whole lot of sniping and posturing. A waste of time anymore.

We should at least make an effort to phrase our flames more politely.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), May 29, 1999.


i MUsT SaY THaT i enJoY of THe opEN FOruM!!!!!! iT HAs alLOweD DIetER TO emeRGE FROm hIS POd And beCOmE WHaT hE Is toDAy!!!!!!! aND If yoU FIguRe ouT WHat tHAt iS, teLL Me!!!!!!!! ALso!!! IncluDE me inTO Yes FOr oFF TOpicaL OIntmENtS!!!!!!!! hoW ElsE CAn woRLd plOTS bY LIzaRD LeadERS be exPOSed?????????

gOod moRNinG!!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), May 29, 1999.


While I haven't been a major player on this forum...the announcement that it is closing somehow just adds to the dark days ahead. I hope someone can e-mail me the address of any new ones. I still wish I could understand Ed's reasonings...with leadership comes responsibility...yet...it was voluntary, I suppose...still....he should reconsider....why....I guess I am being selfish..this forum was a "safe haven" and way to listen to others who shared the same uncomfortable premonitions about the future....alas...I hope to find one as equally enjoyable and fruitful as this one was... take care ya'lll Rick

-- rick shade (Rickoshade@aol.com), May 29, 1999.

Hi 'yall,

Hang in there! Put your face to the wind and don't look back. If a forum is available for us (open please...) please email me if I don't surface on my own. I value the form of friendship started here. The flame wars embarrass me too - I guess I understand the vehemence but it (the flaming) is just not right. Whether we like it or not we are all in this together. And the odds are pretty good that Y2K will bring us something "in between".

Good night....Kristi

-- Kristi (securx@Succeed.Net), May 30, 1999.


The main reason I stopped posting on y2k sites 10 mos ago is that the Personal Preparations alligators' had risen to the level of my ears. I've had a little breather while waiting for a homestead construction phase to complete, so I posted here and there in the past month. Shortly I'll be too busy again. But those of you who have the time may want to check into this possible resource for a replacement forum:

1) The "y2k.entrewave.com" forum, which is what was used for Gary North's OLD forum, was taken over by 12 of us. We chipped in $5/month a piece to keep it going. The forum software is much more intuitive: displays each thread's "ladder" in its entirety, has many options to customize access and display, has an excellent set of archives, and has a good SEARCH ENGINE!!!

2) Will Richards (pseudonym), the moderator, is thinking of closing the forum down.

3) One or more of you may want to approach him with some kind of offer. Or maybe you could negotiate directly with the writer of the forum software (I can't remember his name now offhand, but Will will know.)

**************************************************************

If you are a serious GI, you will want as much prep info as you can get -- the entrewave forum archives have LOADS of good stuff on various topics, with a relatively high level of accuracy.

Good luck in finding (or renting) a worthwhile website for your needs.

Bill

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), May 30, 1999.


I have to agree with Old Git. I came here looking for answers on how to prepare for Y2K. I have been turned off because of all the name calling and bickering. Old Git has given us some of the best advise of anyone on this board. I hope someone e-mails us with site of new board if this one closses down.

-- Homeschooling Grandma (Donna@glennet.com), May 30, 1999.

Dear night owls (or early birds):

OG is right, and Dieter, too!

TWO forums. One open forum, just as this one. The other (a closed, mirror site)takes those threads and posts them again, but edited down by 80% to the best information, discourse, humor contained in the original.

Flint, of course. You contribute intelligently, seriously, with good intent. Most of us would agree you carry the dialogue well. Editor cuts you because of your *opinion*, editor gets incredible guff from us all.

Everything is visible in the original on the full thread, and we can judge for ourselves how much comes through to the edited thread. Eventually, we have to come to trust the editor(s) to give us the essentials. Or we audition new editor(s). (One Category would be challenges to the editor's judgment in cutting.)

I'd also like to see a library of WAAQs (well asked & answered questions) that new thread questions can be referred to as part of re- opening a discussion based on news, events, or the arrival of new people with a valuable perspective to contribute.

We also have fun, and some of the amazing times of goofy, zany humor could be carried over. We would still do our wild dancing acts over on the OPEN forum, but we could read for content (and catching up) on the condensed one. ("Yourdon's Digest"?)

Yes, we would lose immediacy on the edited one, but we indulge in that plenty already, and many thoughtful contributions are buried in "spontaneous" outbursts, and digressions away from the topic.

The editor would not inject or impose new content, but would as skillfully as possible weed out the posts that we, as a group, generally do not want to have imposed on our limited reading time.

Argument? Agreement? Improvements? (BTW, I am not volunteering for the job, not for several more months at least. A group effort, maybe splitting up different categories to each?)

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.com), May 30, 1999.


ADDENDUM to previous post on switching to better forum software:

1) If people want to pursue the idea further, they should set up the financial end on a DONATION basis, so that financial hassles are minimized.

2) Another plus about the "entrewave" software is that the display of each thread's 'ladder' includes the name of each poster. Thus it's easy to click over or scroll past the habitual pre-adolescent flamers' contributions to entropy.

3) By glancing at the 'ladder' one can immediately tell which posts are new (and unread by the reader): they are marked by a red colored icon.

My bottomline opinion: Ed is gone, but he's still with us -- I imagine he'll post every once in a while. BUT THE FORUM SOFTWARE IS BROKEN -- people accepting it reminds me of the middle '70s when people thought Intel's (or CPM's?) Text Editor 'worked just fine' -- even tho you had to locate a character you wanted to erase on an 80-character line of display, BY THE NUMBERED CHARACTER POSITION, ROW AND COLUMN. I kid you not. There was many an engineer who couldn't understand my enthusiasm for my copy of "The Electric Pencil." wordprocessor, which ACTUALLY ALLOWED ONE TO MOVE THE CURSOR TO A CHARACTER TO BE DELETED AND THEN HIT THE DELETE BUTTON -- PRESTO IT WAS GONE! Do YOU have one of these new-fangled wordprocessors on your PCWeenie?

I apologize for the above sarcastic eruption -- working on being perfect otherwise.

Bill

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), May 30, 1999.


"MUsT SaY THaT i enJoY of THe opEN FOruM!!!!!! iT HAs alLOweD DIetER TO emeRGE FROm hIS POd And beCOmE WHaT hE Is toDAy!!!!!!! aND If yoU FIguRe ouT WHat tHAt iS, teLL Me!!!!!!!!"

LOL... Dieter!

Shift Happens.

We can shift this into something even better. Or not. Our choice.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), May 30, 1999.


I like the idea of a closed forum with another open forum for when we have free time and would like a pollyanna view. I know I'm always looking for the possibility that life will remain as usual (LWRAU?). But if we have a closed forum, can I sneak Flint in when I use my key card? Flint, though you maintain an optimistic viewpoint, you occasionally post a response that shows some chinks in the armor. I, too, enjoy reading your posts.

Ol Git, if you do find a good forum, would you let me know? I'd sure miss everyone if ya'll take off and I'm left wandering around in cyberspace wondering where everyone went.

Jeannie

-- jhollander (hollander@ij.net), May 30, 1999.


In case this forum closes please use http://www.uneco.org and click on the Y2K icon.

This could be a way to post about any new forum created as a follow up of Ed's forum.

You may also want to explore Hawaii's Big Island as a great refuge...plenty of water in Kohala and Hamakua, thousands of wild pigs, 60,000 cattle on the world's largest ranch, wast tracts of extremely fertile soil. Stick a broom in the soil and it grows. Check our Y2k community gardens started and our Y2K youth program. Drop a line for more info.

The climate is perfect.

Aloha

Aldo

-- Aldo (Y2K@uneco.org), May 31, 1999.


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