Bugging Out: Is total isolation preferable to a few neighbors?

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We are in the middle of negotiations to purchase some rural property to bug out to during the rollover. One is VERY isolated - really in the woods - and the other is in a rural area with a few neighbors. My son seems to feel that being totally isolated is dangerous, that we would be like "sitting ducks" if society begins to unravel, and that it would be better to have some neighbors to join with to help each other out. Which do you think is the better choice?

-- Scarlett (creolady@aol.com), May 26, 1999

Answers

I would vote for the neighbor area, myself. the division of labor for sufficiency is such that one family is not large enough. there is a certain critical mass that is required. if you have neighbors, and can make relationsips with them, you will be FAR ahead.

YMMV

JMNTBHO

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), May 26, 1999.


I agree with Chuck. We have 4 neighbors within walking distance. We haven't approached them about y2k and won't until it's upon us. At that point, we will offer to supply chickens and eggs. We also have a herd of milking goats that's coming along nicely. There is no possible way we could become totally self-sufficient. Perhaps the guy behind us will provide beef. The other farm will have winter wheat in the ground already. If we provide fruit, you can contribute vegetables and we'll take turns schooling the children. I have a wood- burning stove and I'll bake if you'll sew, etc. Let's pool the gas and check up on each other, you watch my back and I'll watch yours. We're still isolated enough, that we don't have to worry about many more than ourselves. We have also purchased hand pumps for the neighbor's wells. Cheap solution to having to fight neighbors off for OUR water (we have solar). We may not be well known NOW to them....but we'll be real popular once we start handing out hand pumps, eggs and milk! I've also noticed NRA stickers in truck windows, and there is ample hunting around (for now). Ammo can be pooled and a schedule of posting guards at roads could be worked out too! If we're really lucky, perhaps just one of these neighbors is on board already, but we're not counting on it. We abandoned the idea of attempting to alert the community long ago. We were participants of our previous City government who in thier stupidity and wall of denial refused to accept anything but a fix on failure plan. We weren't about to brand ourselves as "right-wing extremsits, cultists or Christain fundamentalists subversive to the government" wackos, once we were lucky enough to find this farm! When TSHTF, come talk to us about the problem you're having with your well! I'm so sick of the denial (even in our own families) that I almost wish some people would just "off themselves" NOW and get it over with, so I don't have to watch it happen slowly and listen to the whinning! God, I sure could use an old-fashioned barn dance tonight! Bring a dish and a fiddle, anybody got home-brew? "I wonder what those folks in Government shelters are doing tonight"? HA

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), May 26, 1999.

The more people there are to help carry the load, the lighter the burden on each.

-- LP (soldog@hotmail.com), May 26, 1999.

to will continue -

you sound like me. my fantasy is that you're actually a neighbor of mine, and we'll discover sometime 4q99 that we've got the makings of a viable community.

Scarlett - if you've got the time to pursue it, you might drop in on your potential neighbors, introduce yourselves as possible neighbors, and get a feel for them. ask about road conditions in winter, electrical power reliability (always a good question in the boonies), local churches (if you're really interested), things like that. how the conversation goes will be a good barometer of neighborliness.

good luck!

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), May 26, 1999.


Got six neighbors in walking distance and I feel that's a good thing. Wouldn't want to be the one lone house sitting on a ridge, no one around for a few miles. Since gasoline and travel may be a problem, pooling for one vehicle isn't a bad idea. Pooling in general is a very good idea. Neighbor has an ATV, don't know for sure but don't these things get 900 miles per gallon? Just kidding. This might become the only way into town for whatever might be available. Go for the neighbors!

-- Richard Westerlind (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), May 26, 1999.


Scarlett,

"IF society begins to unravel?" IMHO it's not in really great shape now.

As to neighbors, that will depend on a lot of variables. Mostly what sort of people are in your family, to a degree on what sort of people you find in your 'rural' area. I don't think you can achieve isolation in any area where humans can survive with relative ease, so I wouldn't count too much on real isolation. I don't know where you're moving from or where you're moving to, nor do I know what your idea of rural is. Check the population density per square mile in the county you're considering- if it's under 20/sq. mile, that's pretty rural.

I cast a qualified vote for neighbors. Good ones are a treasure, and you really can't do it all alone. But moving to the country is no guarantee you'll have the Waltons for neighbors. First be a good neighbor, but be careful.

-- Lee (lplapin@hotmail.com), May 26, 1999.


I agree with all of the above, but I think that becoming a contributing member of a church and developing friendships among the congregation is more important than the proximity of the closest home to yours.

I recommend that you choose the site located in a county whose annual big-social-event is the Ducks Unlimited banquet.

My bet is that thugs will choose to avoid those counties known for their shotgun-owning populations.

-- GA Russell (garussell@russellga.com), May 26, 1999.


Go for the neighbors, girl, especially in farm country. One of them may have a tractor and a big tank of gas to plow gardens for the neighbors. Another may have a good shallow well, another has an old pump in shed, another has a bunch of water tanks and another has a case of pool bleach -- the beginnings of a local water system.

One farm may not have it all, but if everybody raids their surplus machinery stockpile ( read junkpile and machine sheds) it might be amazing what might turn up. Farmers have been borrowing each others equipment for generations. Nobody can afford or store everything, but do some trading and it all gets done.

On ATVs -- another fantastic idea -- something that can get up hilly gravel roads and plain mud. Might be the only thing that could get to town if the county doesn't pave the tank traps* drainage improvements* it's building in the main north/south road in the east half of the county before winter.

Have some skill or supply that you can trade with your rural neighbors anyways -- it's part of being in the community. Wish I could afford to buy some spare big hand pumps ( for 200' wells) like Will, but about half the houses out here have an old one by the house on an old shallow well anyways.

On community, go to the firehouse chili suppers, church homecomings, local crappie festival, threshing days or whatever gets the township busy.

Gotta go put melons and squash in,

urth

-- urth (urth@solar.net), May 26, 1999.


I have to agree.... gotta have them neighbors!

We live on in a rual area, on a homested farm. We are the only young people for miles and miles. I imagine we will be helping out our neighbors some but farm people are very seldom completely unprepared. We are used to electric outages for up to a week in the dead of winter. We are used to hand pumping water for our livestock if needed. Most of our neighboors are a far cry from the couch potatoe type, even with a little age on most of them. We can work harder then they can, but I'm sure they have MUCH more wisedom than yours truly. They have been through the great depession and years of good times and bad.

I count my blessings every day I look out my kitchen window and see my neighbors working as hard as we are.

My best advise is..... make pies and cookies... almost everyone has a sweat tooth and you can bake yourself right into the hearts of those big burly farmers.

Bulldog

-- bulldog (sniffin@around.com), May 26, 1999.


GA Russel --

"I recommend that you choose the site located in a county whose annual big-social-event is the Ducks Unlimited banquet."

I second that. Our local big event is the annual Bear Dinner.

Scarlett -- everyone opts for neighbors. Me too, and I live in just such an atmosphere. I moved here, I joined a local church, I was invited to join (and did) the local Ruritan club. I attend every local social and political event I run across. As a result, we have been accepted, and are not thought of as "those newcomers." My neighbors and I have developed an easy, "I'll look after your place if you look after mine" attitude.

BTW, you might find that your neighbors in that rural area are well prepared for y2k simply because it's their tradition to be prepared for anything.

-- De (delewis@inetone.net), May 26, 1999.



I should be so lucky. We had four neighbors. One we liked very much; we were friends, and he was a sharp guy; he was killed in an auto accident about a month ago. The second neighbor is moving, as the house is a rental. No telling who we will get next. The third, our neighbors of many years are both in bad health. Don't do a lot to help themselves. (He must weigh 400 lbs) They are y2k aware, but say they can't prepare; we stocked some extra for them, but didn't have enough room to do a lot. The last is a nice fellow with an almost invalid wife. We don't know them well. That's it. Not a very good group I'm afraid. We'll just wing it and see what happens.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), May 26, 1999.

I agree. Go for the neighbors. One of ours is a family from our church. It's always better to have someone to help with problems, share burdens and joys with.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), May 26, 1999.

Choose the area with neighbors. Definitely! If they don't come to you, introduce yourselves. Wave at the sheriff's deput(ies). Thank the postal worker/delivery person-in person. Take every opportunity to be seen and recognized by people. Go to a larger church-even if you aren't particularly religious. Shop locally. Buy at the closest feed & seed, gas station. Stop in at the local tavern-even if you don't drink. Go to ANY local events. Do NOT wait until Dec.30th! The very last thing you want is to be "that family that just blew into town".

-- Greg Lawrence (greg@speakeasy.org), May 26, 1999.

Well, it seems to be unanimous - having neighbors is the better way to go. Thanks for making the decision a lot easier. :-)

-- Scarlett (creolady@aol.com), May 26, 1999.

Scarlett - I live about a mile from a National Wilderness area. Fortunately, I have wonderful neighbors. Everyone is pretty private about their lives, (we don't socialize much,) but we "jaw" about what's new when I am outside working and they drive down the mountain. They have come through for me several times in a crisis. (I am the most vulnerable of the bunch, but I try not to ever be bothersome.)

I would never attempt to go it alone out here without neighbors. I once saw a guy come into our local clinic with his foot wrapped in a bloody towel. He had sliced it with a chain saw and had to drive himself an hour and a half from a very remote area into town. Lucky he didn't pass out first.

We all need other people, even if we purport to be the hermit type.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), May 27, 1999.



Thanks, Marsh. The bloody towel scene definitely has me convinced - need to find some nice neighbors! :-)

-- Scarlett (creolady@aol.com), May 28, 1999.

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