Replaced 500 gallon propane tank with a 1000 gallon tank and topped it off. Purchased a ventless propane heater, non electric. Walton's order just came in. I just have to catch up with the RPS truck. Purchased a 19 HP mower to keep up with the two acres around the house.

Moved the chicks from the brooder to a dog run for the day and then back. Takes a while to catch all the chicks and move them. I hope to have the chicken run in the pole barn finished tomorrow. Rabbit cages are ready and will purchase rabbits soon. Lots of grain will be purchased and stored in 30 gallon barrels.

Went fishing in the front pond this evening and after catching three catfish I put another worm on the hook, tossed the line and set the pole several feet back from the waters edge. I then went back up to the yard to do some chores. An hour later I went back to the pond to check my pole, actually my son's pole. It was gone and the bobber was moving back and forth accross the pond.

We see turkey and deer almost every day which we all enjoy. I don't hunt. Used to but don't enjoy it anymore but very much respect the sport. A case of 223 ammo is in that I need to drive down the highway and pick up. As a former GI I do not much care for war but do believe in being able to protect my family.

We have lived for 10 years in a small midwestern town where I am a system programmer for a major local manufacturer. The move to the country was fairly easy. Sold house in town and purchased very rural acerage 5 miles out of town with a mobile home and two barns which need work. We also got 2 ponds and a creek and a lot of pecan trees with this our last property.

The reason I have bored you with our Y2K preparation and rural lifestyle is to let you know that I believe rural is the way to go if you can. There are many rewards but also a lot of work. Among others I believe providing our two younger boys with a country lifestyle will serve them well. My wife has the oldest, 11 playing the chello and I teach him to shoot and fish. Maybe I am not such a good teacher when it comes to fishing.

I do believe Y2K will be somewhat as Andy has postulated. There is also the economic and political crisis. And Andy you are so very right there is a moral crisis. I wish you all very well and do take of your famalies.

-- Ed (ed@lizzardranch.com), May 08, 1999

Answers

Ed

Thank you for your time. If you could, would you give your opinion on whether there is time for others to move if they are certian they want to try it. This is not for me but more for speculation.

Good to hear you have fish but no pole eh! *VBG* Sounds like a nice spread. Good call. Best of luck to you.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), May 09, 1999.

I, for one, enjoy your updates. Please keep them coming.

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), May 09, 1999.

Hey Ed - I'm envious - sounds like a superb set-up there, let's all hope that we are wrong with our analyses...

Best of luck,

later,

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 09, 1999.

Hey Ed- sounds like we are almost in the same space in preparations. I framed a 12X8 coop today and will roof tommorrow. My problem is all the time this takes. I feel like I am spinning plates. I suppose it will settle down once all the construction projects are completed and all I have to do is maintenance. Thank goodness for natural deadlines like chicks outgrowing their cage and gardens needing planting. Gives me the sense of urgency to get off my butt. Meanwhile, there is not enough sunlight in the day, but it sure feels good.

I was thinking today...I lived in Iceland for several years as a military wife. The locals all had plots of land outside town where they maintained chickens and gardens. Wonder if it could work in some areas of the US where people are in apartments or have zoning restrictions. I would probably have to be secured in some fashion.

There is also a "rent a crop" program in some areas. People purchase a portion of the farmer's crop (fruits, veggies, etc.) ahead of season and that gives him/her the money for inputs. It is also common in this neck of the woods to buy half a steer for later butcher. I know I have purchased a small part of a fall wheat crop from a local organic farmer.

If people are planning on buying livestock, don't forget your local county fairs and 4-H goats, sheep, cows, etc. They usually have an auction afterwards.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), May 09, 1999.

Brian there is time still to make the move from the city to the country but it must be done in a very deliberate fashion. Put the city house up for sale for what it will sell for fast. Don't buy land in a posh rural setting but instead where real people live. If possible buy a place with improvements already in place; barns, chicken coop, ponds, cross fencing, etc.

Here is a quick mental list of what we can provide in our country setting that would not be available in town if the grid goes down: 1) Heat with the non electric propane space heater and Aladdin lamp if necessary. 2) Water from the cistren and creek if need be. 3) Food production. 4) Sanitation. We have a lagoon and also an outhouse. 5) Outdoor recreation. 6) Some distance between us and our neighbors many of whom raise cattle, etc.

-- Ed (ed@lizzardranch.com), May 09, 1999.

Ed, here's a question about your ventless heater. Does it have a continuously-burning "standing" pilot light? I'm converting my water heater to an AquaStar 125XLP propane unit that has no standing pilot (saves on fuel) and has a battery-powered igniter (needs no outside electricity). I'm also interested in propane-fueled ventless heaters such as you bought. What make and model did you get? Are you satisfied with it? Would you do it differently if you had to do it again? Norm

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@tymewyse.com), May 09, 1999.

Norm H- we have a ventless heater for back-up- we heat with wood otherwise. It's a Rinnai- works great. has a pilot- but you can shut it down when you want to. Has a fan that you can run or not as you wish. We use it if we are out all day in bitter cold weather and don't want to come home to a frigid house after the stoves have burned out. Also- when it's 20 below or worse- we use it for extra oomph at night to keep the pipes from freezing.....

re: those wanting to move out now- I think that you would need to find a place with much set up for you already. Or else have money to pay to have it done. Everything takes longer to do than you think. also- it depends on the weather. Up here- winter is long and summer is short- you wouldn't want to be up here in a tent with no water supply in winter. Also- takes a while to get to know the neighbors- and they are real important in a crunch. But- that said- I'd still go for it if you want to get out. It's been interesting how many people have been relocating up here from Florida, pennsylvania, Colorado, etc......

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), May 09, 1999.

Anita is right; and more so! It is not just getting everything set-up correctly. If you think that you will really need to survive on your own, you will need to access you own abilities and experiences. Where will your skills give you the best chance of survival? You can read a book and run Word. You can't read a few books and go out and live off of the land. It doesn't work that way. It is amazing how many things that you have to learn by doing. I have been fortunate. I could cover my loss by my salary in technology. If you believe that you will need to survive on you own wits, you will not have that option. If you are starting from scratch you will, at worst, have to be willing to eat foods that you wouldn't touch today. Indeed, the first step is making them safe. You can learn that in a year. The next step is making them taste good. Give yourself 5 or 10 years. As someone who has been living this way for a good part of a 1/2 century, I wish you wel

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), May 09, 1999.

yes-a prime example of that is keeping the house warm. Just about any fool can turn the thermostat up or down and keep the house warm.But heating a house with wood- in 30 below weather. That's another thing altogether. and yes- you can read the instruction booklet for your thermostat and getit pretty quick. but heating with wood, and doing it well and safely takes a long time to master. Speaking from the experience of a very scary chimney fire one year...... There is so much to heating with wood- the proper wood, splitting it, stacking it, aging it. Getting the fire going- kindling, the draft, etc. Keeping it going and at the level you want.

Of course the thing that amazes me is that the person who uses the thermostat doesn't have to understand diddley about how it works, or how the gas or oil is obtained or the furnace mechanism, etc. Just how to adjust it. But to heat with wood- you've got to understand all of it.

And that sums up "simple living"- it ain't so simple. Mostly wonderful, but never simple.

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), May 09, 1999.

Just a note on the woodstoves, put a piece of sheet metal over the wood once it gets burning if you can as it will make a vast differance in heat output. This is a first thing in the morning idea. I did this for years (electric heat right now) and it works.

Oh yeh the saying 'keep the home fires burning' is so true. Nothing so grim as coming home and it is frozen. Oh one thing worse, wakeing up and it is frozen :o) (Get up and make fire :o)

-- Brian (imager@home.com), May 09, 1999.

I put in supplemental woodstove heat this past winter. When the furnace diesel heating oil ran out, I decided to try just the stoves. We rarely get too much under freezing, but even so, it is hell coming home from work to an ice cold house. Getting out of bed in the morning is, indeed, an act of courage and affirmation. I learned to sleep with sox on and keep my clothes on the end of my bed so I could slip into warm sweats before I actually got out of bed.

I bought two small unvented kerosun heaters to heat our immediate space until the stoves warmed up a bit. They do make a difference.

Our main floor has one big living/dining room. If I need to heat with just the stoves again, I think I will arrange some kind of heavy curtain or screens to isolate the living room so it heats up faster.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), May 10, 1999.