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Quick and easy one folks:

I was given my Dad's 300 Savage with Scope, his old Savage single-shot 20 gauge, bought a Mossburg 835 Ulti-mag, and Mom has a .38 revolver. What is a REASONABLE amount of ammo to stock for each for hunting and personal defense? The location is rural/small town where there is actually some community and "weapon" is not a dirty word. Also, Winchester 300 Magnum ammo will not work with that model rifle-right?

-- Jeremiah Jetson (laterthan@uthink.y2k), April 21, 1999

Answers

200 rounds for the 300 Savage. 1000 rounds for the pistol. 250 each for the shotguns, mix of #4 and #6, and #2 buckshot or bigger. 50 rifled slugs for the Mossberg.

That's after you have shot enough bullets through each to be comfortable and fairly accurate with them. 100 in the rifle, 1000 in the pistol, 100 in both shotguns.

Buy a gun cleaning kit and use it religiously. Buy two bore brushes for each caliber. Buy a bottle of Hoppes #4 bore cleaner.

Sight in the scope/rifle for 100 or 150 yards.

NO!! .300 Win. mag will NOT fit in a .300 Savage. ONLY .300 Savage bullets FIT a .300 Savage.

If we go primitive at some time in the near/distant future, the rifle will be needed for hunting deer, the pistol a backup, and the right mix of shotgun to put duck/quail/geese/turkey on your dinner table.

As to when we go primitive... well, you tell me...

Sunnin' on the porch,

The Dog

-- Dog (desert dog @-sand.com), April 21, 1999.


Jeremiah,

I would add that if you are just learning about guns and how to shoot them you should also purchase a basic .22 rifle... it will save you a lot of money in the long run. (on ammo) just a $100 $150 rifle (like a standard marlin .22)..

-- michael (michael@yahoo.com), April 21, 1999.


If it gets bad enough then every joe will go looking for a kill in the woods. May wipe out game depending upon the density of hnters in your area. Get a permit this fall. Do a deer and make jerky out of it. It will be a valuable experience and will get you a bit ahead of the rush. Travel if you must. Use a dehydrator. Jerky is very easy to make.

-- David (C.D@I.N), April 21, 1999.

JJ.. It would be best to purchase a .22 cal. rifle and add to it 5,000 LL hollow points. The reason being that you will fnd far more small gme than you will large. As for the pistol 500 rounds 125 grains JHP. You need as much ammunition and or reloads as you can get for the .300 savage, if you have a scope zero it in at 25 meters,,,,you will find that the rifle will be dead on at 200 meters.And it will be about 1 1/2 high at 100 meters. If you want a roud figure for the savage, make it 1,000 rounds. The rifle will, must be your primary defense, it shoots further than a shot gun, has more penetration than a shot gun etc. But do not dismiss the shot gun,,,There is a definate place for it. For the shot gun I rcommend 100 rounds of #4 buck shot (this is the FBI load in 2 1/2 magium round.) Yo should specify the 2 1/2 magium round for although a 3 inch gun will shoot 3 inch shells...I have had too may hang ups when trying to eject the 3 inch casing. ( Not a good survival situation to be in). Your hunting load (standard) should be #4 bird shot. This load will take any animal up to large dog size. The .22 rifle round however will be your primary game getter,it is cheaper to shoot etc. Dutchman

-- Dutchman (Sparky@Electric.owee), April 21, 1999.

Dear Reader,

Regulated hunting already stresses many species. If people had to resort to subsistence hunting, in a matter of months game populations. would be decimated. During the first six months of the Great Depression some areas were so over-hunted for deer that it took years to return to "normal" population levels. And in 1930, the United States had far less people.

Ammo hoarding is for the survivalist/fatalist. If you really believe you'll need to provide your own food... you are far better off growing than hunting. Non-hybridized seeds are cheaper and more productive than bullets.

Regards,

-- Mr. Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), April 21, 1999.



Caged rabbits are easier than any game species. I've hunted for years. I'm a lousy deer hunter. I'm a pretty fair squirrel hunter. And the amount of time put into those activities would not and will not compensate me with enough calories to justify that time.

Snares, deadfalls, etc, could be more time effective. But do you or will you have the time to learn how to use them properly?

Your best hunting success would probably come from defending you garden from hungry critters.....

-- Jon Williamson (pssomerville@sprintmail.com), April 21, 1999.


The Indians always wondered why the white man used bullets when a trap would do. I would suggest buying rabbits and bredding them to a sustainable population- about 1 buck and three does will put meat on the table about twice a week and get a neighbor to do the same for genetic diversity. Unless you live in a severly unpopulated area I agree w/Mr Decker(which i almost always do)the game will be gone!Relly on yourself not the game someone else may waste.

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), April 21, 1999.

Mr. Decker. Sir I answared JJ's request as e asked. Now I find sir, that I must answear in part yours.. Firetsly; Sir if you ave stored back any amount of food for just in case purposes,you have crossed over the threshold ino survivalism, being of survivalist mentality. If you have sought to put back an alternate method for havig light,you are provident,but that is still being of a survivalist mentality. If you own a fire arm for self defense,thenyou are certainly being and acting in a survivalist manner. The question of worrying about wild life and it's continuing exhistance after TEOTWAWKI if that is truely our collective future. Is and would be on the last of my lists of concerns. The survival of my family is though at the top of that list. The manner of hoarding ammntion! Now this is an odd observation. I for one, do not believe in the use of harsh language as an optium weapon of self defense. And having a fire arm with out ammuntion is a worse option. Sir I thank you for your indulgence, and yes, patience with an old man who has seen the elephant (and the critter ain't purty I'll tell ya) The Dutchman

-- Duchman (Electric@Shock.owee), April 21, 1999.

Thanks for the info folks. Keep it coming. I am planning on as holistic and measured an approach as family finances will allow. We do plan on a combination of doing a garden next year with non-hybrid seeds and-during this year-getting produce to can from an outfit near us (Mom bought a share in the garden as she has a heart condition). I am seriously thinking of chickens for meat and eggs. However, most of our protein will come from beans, peas, etc. Oh yes, and I plan on doing more fishing than shooting too. Easier on the nerves :)

-- Jeremiah Jetson (laterthan@uthink.y2k), April 21, 1999.

---I know this might be a tough call for you, dads rifle, heirloom, etc, but in my opinion you would be MUCH better off selling that fine collectors piece and purchasing a new mil spec rifle. As the other folks said, unless you live really in the boonies, large game will be shot out pronto. The rifle will be your primary defensive arm, so you need a military rifle, in one of the standard nato type calibers, or the 7.62x39mm russian round. That's it. Don't fool around with this. The savage is fine for deer hunting, but it's an odd caliber for a rifle not manufactued anymore(as far as I know, anyway), and just will not stand up to abuse and extended use like a military weapon would. Ask any of the combat vets here what they went through in terms of ammo in just a small firefight. These are the weapons I would recommend you pick one of, get several cases of ammo for, and become proficient in the use of:-30-06 caliber, M-1 Garand rifle.-308 caliber an M-14 variant type rifle, springfield armory being the most common manufacturer-.223 caliber, an ar-15 variant type rifle, many manufacturers, but I have an extreme prejudice against turncoat Colt, so take your pick of any of the others-small russian round, 7.62x39mm, an AK variant or sks type weapon, the russian manufacture being slightly better than the chinese, for a few technical reasons, but either is fine. --Any of these rifles may be scoped, and expect to pay just as much almost for good optics as the piece itself-cheap optics will let you down in a pinch. Any of these weapons you can hunt reasonable sized big game with. As to my personal recommendation, the M-14 clones in .308--and a lot of old grunts will tell ya the same thing, too. I am not an old grunt, but certainly picked the brains of quite a few of them. There ya go, the other arms are fine, I'm a worse case scenario guy, so who knows when you'll be able to pick up ammo again, and if you look at the prices of case lots of mil surplus ammo over what a similar amount of .300 savage ammo is, I think you'll agree. The .300 savage is roughly about 400% higher than any mil spec stuff. Also, I agree on getting a .22 long arm, cheap, easy to use, you can build your skills with it, and I tell ya, plenty of deer in this country been popped in the head with the "lowly" .22, and small game is a cinch with one.

-- zog (zog@avana.net), April 21, 1999.


Jeremiah...You sound like a reasonable young man. Congratulations on your perceptiveness. Read the posts on this forum and take them ALL with a grain of cynicism. Do what you can afford. "Plan for the worst-hope for the best".

My personal stash is a Russian AK 7.62x39, 1000 rnds of same, 38 cal pistols (because that's what I had) 223 Remington bolt action etc. Just bought the wife a 30 cal carbine - she picked it out and loves it. 30 cal is actually just a hot pistol cartridge although the carbine can be sighted in out to 150 yards, it's not really meant for that distance. 223 with GOOD scope is my AT&T weapon (for when you want to reach out...).

Good advice on trading the Savage. There is no way you will be able to find ammo if TSHTF. If you can't bear to get rid of it, just get 200 rounds of ammo...use 50 sighting in and getting used to the weapon....and park it. Get a good AKS or AK, still can get 7.62 and the cost is very reasonable. Spend a lot on optics...you get what you pay for.

Good luck my young netfriend.

-- Lobo (atthelair@yahoo.com), April 21, 1999.


Jeremiah

I have to agree on the purchase of something a little more self- defense oriented than a .330 Savage - if it's in decent condition you should be able to get enough out of the sale of the savage to pick up something in 7.62x39...preferably a Ruger 'Mini-30', but barring that any of the civilianized AK variants will do. Yes the mags are more expensive these days, but you should have at least 10, and right around a case of ammo.

Note on the mags: there are some folks out there selling magazines that hold all the way up to 75 or 100 rounds - but don't bother. Get the standard 30 round box magazines - the 55 round boxes are too long to shoot comfortably from a prone position, and the drum mags are just too blasted heavy.

Depending on your location you should at the very least be able to get a deer license this fall - the idea of starting your hunting experiences now is invaluable - especially since deer populations nationwide are higher now than they were before Europeans ever came to North America. In fact there are large areas of the country (even suburban areas) where the deer population borders on nuisance levels. You do need to be aware, however, that come a major depression (or worse) the deer population will be thinned out very quickly by other folks with your same idea. I suggest you start checking out books on traps and snares - maybe do a little training with a local trapper...it isn't as glamorous as hunting deer, but even when everybody else goes hungry, a good trapper will put meat on the table.

just my 2 cents' worth, Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 21, 1999.


but don't rule out the handgun where it excells;comitting crimes!if the worst should happen,then none of us have prepaired enough...when you are very hungry you will realize the gun puts you in the class of the strong...get out there and prey on the weak!!!the concealibility of handguns makes them great for lowering people's defences head shots are best(cleanest,most merciful kill)...remember,this kind of horror should be reserved for POST teotwawki senarios ; )

-- ronaldreagan (christiansmakegoodeatin'@aol.com), April 22, 1999.

I have decided to trade in the rifle for either a 30-06 bolt action or Ruger Mini-30. I am leaning toward the Ruger, but if we get into a real pissing contest with Russia, 7.62x39 ammo could become impossible to get and getting 30-06 military rifles at a reasonable price is getting mighty tricky-and they have a pretty good kick to boot. By the way, I have done quite a bit of .22 target shooting and am NRA rated as a Sharpshooter Bar 5.

-- Jeremiah Jetson (laterthan@uthink.y2k), April 22, 1999.

Seems to me a Colt pre-ban AR-15 with collapsible stock, 16" barrel, muzzle brake or flash suppressor, surefire light, 1.5 to 3 power low- light scope, tac sling, and a bunch of 30 rnd mags covers anything you'd ever want in a general survival gun.

-- Ct Vronsky (vronsky@anna.com), April 22, 1999.


I bought my first firearm recently, a revolver. I am getting 1000 rounds of ammo for it. When asked by a friend of mine, a DWGI (ret. Army), how much ammo I was getting for my new firearm, I told him 1000 rounds; and he said, "How many people you planning on killing?" I told him it's not that I will use it for killing; I want plenty for when I go to the shooting range to learn/practice shooting. Suddenly it made sense to him to stock up. And since he's DWGI, that's the only thing that WILL make sense to him, so I left it at that.

-- 1500 Rounds (ammo@hateotdoit.butwillifnecessary), April 22, 1999.

Jeremiah -

I haven't kept current on the Civilian Marksmanship Program, other than to know that the clintonistas haven't been able to totally kill it yet. You might try calling the NRA 800 number on your membership card and asking the training dept folks what it would take to qualify for one of those Gov't surplus M-1's...and yeah they were still available as of last year, though the price has certainly gone up.

just a thought if you're already certified as a sharpshooter.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 22, 1999.


I tried to keep it inexpensive and cover the field. My moderate distance weapons are a Mak-90 and a SKS.(7.62x 39) Both with scopes . My rifle for distance was a Enfield .303 which cost me $65.00 at Roses and military ammo was cheap. It also has a scope. I recommend at least a 1000 rd for your main weapons. Very deffinetly get a .22 rifle ($85.00 at Walmart) I have 5000 rd for my .22

-- richard markvart (bullwink1e@aol.com), June 04, 1999.

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