Time Bomb 2000, isn't that the basis of this forum? And isn't anything that lights that fuse something to factor into our planning?

NATO, fueled and funded by the good ole USA is trying to bust some chops. But that sort of thing is ancient history. We tried it in Nam and it didn't work. Russia tried it with the Afghans, and it didn't work. Now we're involved in trying it in Kosovo and it won't work. That area is tailor made for hide, hit, and run, for the locals. Even if we send in a lot of troops, it won't be over before 1/1/2000. Then what? And that's why it's not off topic.

Here we are, the world's highest tech military force, with a fatal disease growing ever more dangerous within our super tools. We are about to go deaf, dumb, and blind in the middle of the battle. What enemy could ask for anything more? Will the "enemy" build up more hatred and resentment within the next 9 months? Will they take advantage of our disordered military abilities later on? Has this anything to do with Y2k and our thinking and planning?

Let's just look at the Middle East oil supply scenario. Most of us think there will be some disruptions in the flow of oil, and so we post information about that. Maybe some oil field/refinery will have some problems getting the oil to the port. Maybe there will be some shipping problems, once it's loaded and ready to sail. Maybe some folks that are building up an intense hatred for the way we are forcing ourselves into their lives will see those supertankers heading out and ask the question "Where's that one bound for? The USA? Should we stop it before it can get away?" No brainer stuff.

And then there is all this business about planning for the National Guard, if not full martial law, right here at home. How will that actually be run, and what will it mean? We've been pondering the domino effects of infrastructure failures and how that might impact us. Isn't the Kosovo involvement just such a danger to our infrastructure? How will those who are building such a powerful hatred for us strike back? Is it prudent to be thinking about that and what we might possibly do to protect ourselves here at home?

If you believe, as I do, that Kosovo, and all that is unfolding there, is going to spill over onto our own shores come Y2k, then this subject is not off topic. Every good organization has some good scouts. Andy has been doing some exceptional scouting work, presenting us with some alarming information, and mostly leaving it up to us to decide what to do with it. Y2k and this site are not static. It evolves. As new information that could impact our infrastructure is discovered it is presented here. Who has a problem with that? As some exceptional IT people have said, it's not the problems we know about that worry us so much, it's the ones we haven't even really thought about yet!

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), April 19, 1999

Answers

Gordon,

Another thread was already started about this earlier today at:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000jlY

"Enough With The Yugo?"

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), April 19, 1999.

In a word or few, can you say BOMB SHELTER ? World War 111 ? Secession from the union?

Hey, son, start packin' your bags, cause they ain't agonna draft ya.

-- sue (deco100@aol.com), April 19, 1999.

Enough of the Yugo? Well, that actually was my own attitude until just the last few days. Regarding Kosovo, I was a DGI, and really didn't want to dig into information that didn't seem to be relevant to the whole rest of the Y2k scene. But that changed for me. Perhaps it's like when we all first became aware of Y2k and considered it a software problem. Then along came the embedded chip issue, and we said "uh oh, this doesn't look too good." What I am suggesting is that we are overlooking the Kosovo entanglement in that same way.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), April 19, 1999.

Notice that the Kosovo threads I complain about don't even _try_ to present a Y2k connection.

Notice also that generally the Balkan threads I complain about are not labeled as off-topic in their titles.

I've seen the argument that we're using up the weapons because they're about to become useless - okay, that's Y2k-related and I haven't protested that it's not. But that argument is not what's being posted over and over and over and over that I'm complaining about.

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), April 19, 1999.

No Spam,

You just got to try harder to make the connections. Once it dawns on you, I bet you'll be one of the best posters of all on this matter. I have noticed that you keep saying you just don't see the connection. That's OK. It's hiding in plain sight. Keep thinking about it.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), April 19, 1999.

No Spam, What are you missing? The titles are clear. If you don't want to know, don't read them. Or is it you don't want the rest of us to know?

-- KoFE (Your@town.USA), April 19, 1999.

Gordon,

>You just got to try harder to make the connections.

Is this the "everything is related to Y2k" argument? I'm not sure if that's what you intend here.

>Once it dawns on you,

I see quite well what the arguments are about a connection. I don't complain about the postings that are about the connection.

>I bet you'll be one of the best posters of all on this matter.

Thank you.

>I have noticed that you keep saying you just don't see the connection.

No, Gordon, that's a misstatement of what I've said. I said that I complain about threads that don't even pretend to be about a connection to Y2k. There are other valid ways of rephrasing what I said, but "you just don't see the connection" is not one of them.

>That's OK. It's hiding in plain sight. Keep thinking about it.

Patronizing will get you nowhere.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

KoFE,

>No Spam, What are you missing? The titles are clear. If you don't want to know, don't read them.

KoFE (and Andy), what are you missing? The purpose of this forum is clear. If you don't want to post on-topic, post elsewhere.

>Or is it you don't want the rest of us to know?

A cheap conspiracy shot, KoFE. For shame.

I have repeatedly pointed out that the off-topic postings about which I complain would be on-topic in another Greenspun forum and have frequently provided a hot link to such another forum. Why would I do that if I "d[id]n't want the rest of [you] to know?"

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), April 19, 1999.

No Spam: Normally you argue a better line, but not this time. The connection with Kosovo and Y2K is extremely clear to me, and it should be to everyone. If you had read Gordons post instead of rubber stamping it with your close minded attitude, you would see that he mentioned a few of these connections.

As we near the actual Y2K event, we note that its form is changing, and the reality of the situation ever so slowly being revealed. And hey, it turns out that Milne was right about at least one thing - Y2K isn't going to happen in a vacuum!

-- a (a@a.a), April 19, 1999.

Could I have your attention please:

Dumb Ass! If our military has a few computer failures that is about the same as their computers shuttting down completely!

I HATE WHEN PEOPLE COME ON THIS BOARD AND PRETEND TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT EVERYTHING AND USUALLY IT IS SPUR OF THE MOMENT< BOGUS< OPINIONS!!!!!!!!!!!

-- W (w@w.w), April 19, 1999.

a (a@a.a),

>No Spam: Normally you argue a better line, but not this time. The connection with Kosovo and Y2K is extremely clear to me, and it should be to everyone. If you had read Gordons post instead of rubber stamping it with your close minded attitude, you would see that he mentioned a few of these connections.

If you carefully reread my postings earlier in this thread, you will see that I did not complain about Gordon's posting at the top of the thread. Basically, I was just answering the question posed in the thread title, then followed with responses to Gordon and KoFE's subsequent posts.

Could I have written my first posting in this thread more clearly? Yes.

I did not, and do not, claim that the posting at the head of this thread is off-topic.

(Perhaps, check your attitude about me and my postings?)

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), April 19, 1999.

W,

The other side is not fighting us with computors. That's the beauty of the whole thing for them. Busting our chops (for them) is about the same as the Vietnamese did to us. *But* when we lose *our* computor directed initiative, we are clay pidgeons for them.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), April 19, 1999.

Hey No Spam,

For someone that despises Off Topic discussions on this forum, it's amazing how I see you posting on each Kosovo or other "OT" threads, straining gnats and fleas.

I think the word for it is "HYPOCRITE?"

The geopolitical field now playing out across the globe as you read this, is the canvas that Y2K and all its portents will be painted on.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 19, 1999.

INVAR,

To your last statement about the geopoliitical field, I say Amen!

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), April 19, 1999.

I'll post my "perspective" up front, lest I be questioned later...I think NATO in the middle of Yugoslavia is a mistake...Let me state further that I think the US uses NATO as a costume, like an actor on a stage.

Actually I do think there is a media/governmental misdirection to that "abomination in Yugoslavia", in place of domestic issues...there always is....always an atrocity somewhere. Just not HERE.

I will tell you I am as emotionallly volatile as I was in 1969 when I was 17 years old. I spent little time as a yuppie...children, music, human life and other things were of more value than houses on vista hills and luxury cars were...so sue me. I really thought humans in the US would have learned more than this in 30 years...I'm incredibly disappointed. Follow the money, Dearhearts...don't buy the "poor Albanians" schtick that comes across your TV. President requisitioning another how many billion to support this? I have refused the IRS for years, to my peril, because MY money supports all this...

I'm not asking you to embrace individual secession...I know that takes,..... a lot of time and research and soul-searching...I'm asking you to not buy the US propaganda about those "evil Serbians"...Seek more sources...ask more questions...

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), April 19, 1999.

INVAR,

>For someone that despises Off Topic discussions on this forum, it's amazing how I see you posting on each Kosovo or other "OT" threads,

I post complaints about the OT threads _on_ those OT threads, of course. Did this commonsense explanation escape you?

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), April 19, 1999.

The geopolitical field now playing out across the globe as you read this, is the canvas that Y2K and all its portents will be painted on. 

Wow. Great statement INVAR.

Y2K, Kosovo, Terrorism, Food Supply, Presidential Decision Directives, National Guard, United Nations, Critical Infrastructure Protection, etc. and et. al. -- it is all interrelated.

How does having our Reservists in the Kosovo area, effect our states abilities to call upon the National Guard for potential Y2K emergency response? Humm?

How about the GPS? Thats a Y2K concern for us. Its HEAVILY used in modern warfare. How will the upcoming rollover in August impact Kosovo, and beyond?

(BTW, interesting piece about the GPS system on tonights PBS News Hour report. The transcript isnt up yet. Titled: Eyes in the Sky Correspondent Tom Bearden reports on another battlefield in the Kosovo war --the war from space ... http://www.pbs.org/newshour/)

So many questions ... too few connecting-the-dots.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), April 19, 1999.

No Spam,

In other words your Spamming, right?

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@aol.com), April 20, 1999.

R. Wright,

>In other words your Spamming, right?

No - some people post stuff that I and many others consider clearly off-topic. I post complaints about some of those postings.

They have their say. I have mine.

No spamming.

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), April 20, 1999.