Lately, in addition to the usual "stop-preparing, it's a bump in the road"-ers, there have been a number of people posting way-over-the-top hysteria and associating Y2k preparation with their own drug-induced paranoia. It seems to be running about half this sort of pollution, and half sincere, or informative, posts. Those of us who keep up with Y2k are aware of the recent government "public relations" effort to "calm the public's fears" about Y2k, as well as parallel efforts in the private sector. We have seen repeatedly the asinine motto "Panic is more dangerous than the problem itself." We know that millions, if not billions, are being spent to massage the media, and popular bulletin boards like this are no exception. They are seen as a legitimate target. A lot of these paid disruptors are here day after day. Cutting and pasting insubstantial pollyanna editorials from print media and making fun of Y2k-concerned people appears to be a full time job for them. Banks - and all other businesses that depend on them, which means all - are terrified of public reaction to Y2k; I have no difficulty imagining that they would stoop to disrupting a forum like this. After all, they've seized the assets of Y2k food provisioners. Now they've graduated to impersonating the Y2k-concerned, and associating their concern with drug use. Or simply being so hysterical that they drive newbies away. Those who come here wondering whether to believe their newspaper's ridicule of Y2k preparers see an abundance of hyserical and otherwise stupid posts, together with an equal number of posts ridiculing those who are concerned, so they leave. This is the intended effect of the infiltration. If you want to know more about who does this and why, and similar activities they've engaged in before, here's a link: http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/COINTELPRO/cointelpro.html (if anyone knows how to make a link, feel free; otherwise, you can "cut" the address and "paste" it up in the "location" window of your browser).

I'm really sick of it. This sort of totalitarian game-playing has been growing in recent decades, and the more it justifiably alienates an aware segment of the population, the more they view that alienation as a threat, and step up their survelliance and sabotage. They not only target those who speak out and organize (practice democracy) but they are target our freedoms as well, and foment divisive issues to abosorb our attention and distract our political will. There is only one direction this can go, if we don't educate ourselves, and oppose it openly and vocally every step of the way, and that's a totalitarian state. It CAN happen here, and with the disappearance of the middle class and the concentration of more and more wealth in fewer and fewer hands, it's virtually inevitable. With Kosovo, they are creating chaos with which to justify the expansion of a NATO "world army" that is allowed to invade any sovereign state it wants to, with impunity. With Y2k they are refusing to prepare the population so as to use the chaos to justify greater centralization of authority, and restrictions on personal freedom. Please take some time to educate yourself on this general trend, and how infiltration and disruption, such as we're experiencing here, works. The Rivero site, above, is good for this. And remember: they want us to be separated along left/right lines, and to think that anyone "on the other side of the fence" is really extreme. If we're busy with that kind of squabbling, we won't see the real danger, which is MONEY: an oligarchy using a consolidated media cartel to undermine the democratic values common to all of us.

For those of you who are skeptical, please wake up and see how our freedoms are being undermined and the power in our society being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. And those of you who know about this, and are angry, PLEASE read about how the system infiltrates concerned groups, sows distrust and extremism, and uses "agents provocateurs" to promote violence. They have stopped many non-violent anti-establishment groups in this way (read the link), by driving out the reasonable people and creating an excuse to use force against them - which is their strength. OUR strength is the truth, and our shield is the Constitution of the United States. We should hold to these, and refuse to resort to their tactics of deception and violence.

Some will consider any scrutiny of questionable government activities as "extreme." That shows how far the decay has set in. My prayer is that people will wake up and take back their country, before it's completely taken away from them.

Dano

-- Dano (bookem@blacksand.srf), April 18, 1999

Answers

Dano,

FWIW I've come to a similar conclusion - that there are efforts to drive the newer members of the forum away. The thing to do here, IMHO is to keep going in spite of the disruptions...

to stop the truth, they have to stop us, and quite frankly I don't think they have the guts to do that.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 18, 1999.

Keep it up Dano! Don't let 'em get you down. Remember that you can't please everybody and you can't reach everybody. What we do out here is mostly, IMO, to get info that we can give to those close to us or give info so that others may do the same. If this board went away tomorrow, we'd all still keep doing what we're doing...

-- A.P. (grim2k@hotmail.com), April 18, 1999.

Dano, I've been lurking here off and on for a while now and appreciate your comments. Truth be told, a little over a year ago I was convinced that we were going to have a severe problem in 2000. More recently, I had been convinced that this was a minor blip on the screen for those of us in the US. In the last couple of weeks, with revelations filtering out akin to your words above---that there is a combination of public relations efforts on the part of our government AND shoddy reporting from the mainstream media, I must admit that i no longer know what to believe. Truly, I am at square one.

As someone who has watched the media for years, consider the panic element in these terms, if you will. When 1999 dawned on us, it seemed as though the major media sources suddenly realized that we were one year away from the 2000 date so many people were talking about. With the calendar change earlier this year came a plethora of reports on y2k....some sensationalistic, some with great bombast and most telling the old tried and true 'this could happen' tale. January saw Monicagate come to a head and as such, the y2k news, IMO, quickly subsided, relaegated to back page, news filler status. Now we are in the midst of Kosovo and lengthy daily reports on our war efforts and the plight of refugees.

Let me cut to the chase. It seems to me that we have set the stage quite nicely for mass knee jerk reaction, if not panic, as it seems the 3rd or 4th quarter this year may be the time that the masses hear about y2k on a grand scale. I've heard reports that only a small percentage actually understand the scope of the problem, and less than that are concerned. Point is, if ever we were ripe for civil unrest, it will be in the 3rd or 4th quarter, when the unwashed masses must make a quick decision on things like preparation in a short amount of time.

This is quite troubling to me. I disavow the need for brainwashing from our government. I understand the concerns that are discussed here as being viable, logical concerns that need to be considered. And yet, I have to wonder, can anyone survey the entire y2k landscape and make a judgment call as to just what will happen? Being so vast, isn't the continued prognostication as to what will transpire and what will be rectified dependent on one's own perceptions? In the IT industry, doesn't it follow then that one's own success rate...or conversely, failure rate....taint one's own view of the problem?

Dano, I am at a crossroads here. I have doubts that anyone can make reassuring statements short of 'we know about it and we're trying to fix it', just as no one can forecast what will happen without the words 'could', 'may', 'might' and of course, 'preparation'.

Thanks for interesting reading.

-- Doc Zero (returnto@zero.com), April 18, 1999.

"take back our country"........how?

-- shy ann (shy@really.shy), April 18, 1999.

Dano and all,

Thanks for voicing what many of us have known for a long time - the following ling is worth taking a look at for a little background on some of the "behind the scenes players" and plans...

Behind The Scenes

I've gone out on a limb myself with my take on what is about to go dowm. Make your own mind up on what the severity of what I am saying will be - take it or leave it. I'm also following up with a couple of relevant (very in the case of Mr. Horowitz) snips:-

One more thing - it is quite evident that there are a few disinformation (as in "the 25 rules of disinformation") agent provocateurs on this forum, and particularly csy2k! - yes they are dangerous as they want to bring the forum into disrepute, discourage newbies, and paint us all as whackos - which is very far from the case.

We need to be vigilant and united in this regard. I could name names, I maight be wrong, but here goes - csy2k = Joseph E. McIsaac (Banking Shill), Bradley k. Sherman, Don Scott, Alan Dechert - to name a few.

On this forum we have - now, I don't think I should say anything but I am pretty sure of a couple.

[snip]

""The real people we need to watch out for are the Banking elite (Rothschilds), Industry and Medical elite (Rockefellers), whose Standard Oil, by the way, is currently reaming the people with price increases while they are worried about what Clinton is doing with Kosovo. It is all going perfectly according to their plan, and we need to stop buying into it before it is too late."

Again you are right on the money here.

The problem as I see it though is that it is far too late to stop them - it really is a fait accompli - a few years ago it may have been possible but with the millennium fast approaching they have all the aces up their sleeves, not least of which is the Y2K card.

Think about it. They want instability and war. The herd can be thinned, control can be re-established even tighter than it is now, they can go in and mop up afterwards when there is a "buying opportunity" - hence the power play in Yugoslavia, wait, there will be more, watch the Middle East, the Spratly (sp) Islands, Taiwan, North Korea, Japan, India/Pakistan - and you can bet that agent provocateurs (of whom old BJC is the chief 007 and a half) will be stirring up as much trouble as possible.

The stock market is in their pockets, they can collapse it at will, they have kept gold at rock bottom prices for ages now no matter what happens in the real world which would normally trigger an increase.

And finally we have y2k. They have let it fester - they know how bad it's going to be. No resources have been allocated to it here or abroad - the silence id deafening from the Red House - where's the inventor of the internet Al Gore? - there will be plenty of "buying opportunities" in the years ahead. Many countries will go bankrupt - corporations and alliances will move in for the economic kill. Oh yes, they have it all planned to a tee.

If y2k is not as bad as they want, why, it can be made worse. Terrorism - cyber and nuclear/bilogical - will be the order of the day. We are already being primed for this - subtle and not so subtle hints and warnings - wait and see. I don't think people realise how easy it is to create havoc with people in the right places. Key satellites mysteriously malfunction at rollover, SWIFT goes haywire, key hubs go up the swannee - blame it on y2k - there are all manner of possibilities and they have thought of them all.

Oh yes a, I get it loud and clear.

PROBLEM / REACTION / SOLUTION

They created and exacerbated the problem.

They milk and hone the reaction of the public.

They will come in with a solution to the instability, financial and social chaos, war -

We are heading for a one world government, a microchipped population, a single currency - the whole enchilada ... it's all too pat, anyone who has their eyes open can see the signs, and the pace is accelerating...

Hang on, it's going to be a wild ride.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 18, 1999."

[snip]

"Andy, You still don't get it do you?

The whole reason for Kenneth Starr and the facists to go digging up the dirt on Clinton was to distract you from what is really happening while the New World Order advances their agenda in other parts of the world.

"Such biased reporting, as much as anything, confuses people and distracts the masses from hearing their urgent warnings and/or confronting the real insidious threats to democracy and world peace.

With the public decoyed in this way, the final phases of the international corporate megamergers and military_medical_industrial institutionalized genocide continues.

Indeed, the financial elite who control America's yellow presses, and the news media in general, have far more to gain by deceiving and distracting people than they might from honestly reporting the news. They can continue to make vast fortunes off of humanity's suffering without being exposed.

Josef Goebbels would indeed be proud of this situation. The Nazi propaganda machine is alive and well, and sustained by the allegedly intelligent, well-meaning, anti-defamationists who affirm "it should never happen again!"

It's happening right now before everyone's eyes. Very few see history repeating itself, or the holocaust ongoing, thanks largely to the deceptive distractive political propaganda,"

Leonard G. Horowitz, D.M.D., M.A., M.P.H."

[snip]

"Andy,

Just to follow up on last night, I did a bit more checking and David Icke speculates that Clinton is a CFR member. However, he also indicates that as in all Illuminati heirarchies, it is often only those at the very top level that are aware of the ultimate goals. Clinton is definitely not one of the big shots (he's too dumb to be that evil!) in the CFR if he is even a member, as seen at their site:

http://www.forei gnrelations.org/public/bd.html

Not suprisingly though, near the bottom, rather inconspicously mentioned, is of course our old friend;

David Rockefeller, Honorary Chairman

-- @ (@@@.@), April 18, 1999.

[snip]

a,

Yep - Icke has good sources and I consider him to be reliable, I have also heard the same from a couple of others in the MWO research game.

I checked out the site yesterday and found no mention of Clinton (as expected...)

BTW on the subject of Icke - if you haven't done so already - check out his latest book "The Biggest Secret" - it is an ongoing work, with pieces of the puzzle beings lotted in as time goes by.

Also see Dano's thread he just posted - right on the money - as you know this forum has been well infiltrated - the usual tactic is that of bsilly above - ridicule - the mention of space aliens (see above) is de rigeur - all in all quite predictable, and a little amusing.

Catch you later,

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 18, 1999."

[end snips]

regards all,

Andy

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 18, 1999.

We haven't had much conversation about this since e.coli stopped posting at the beginning of the year. But it is pretty damn clear that this is what's going on in the larger scheme of things. Unfortunately, Dano, I don't think the masses are going to wake up and take the country back. I think they'll be screaming for security once the exodus begins from the cities. And, it's not just this country, afterall. There will be pockets of people who will take care of themselves, for a while anyway, but in the long run, I think it's a fait accompli. Damn. I feel a sense of resignation...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), April 19, 1999.

Dano, it did my heart good to read your post. There are so many people out there who do not realize just how perilous our future is with reguards to our liberties and constitutional rights. Many times I have been tempted to kick in my television screen when watching our "Free Press" in action. I remember, when I was growing up ,Cronkite talking about how the Russian media was manipulated by their government and propoganda was all they aired. It seems to me that we have reached the same dismal state.

Every time I turn on the television I see new gun control laws being pushed, or lawsuits against manufacturers. I saw the last few years the demonizing of tobacco, followed by huge taxes on cigarettes which have cut deeply into our family budget. The government is not spending one penny of those taxes to help people quit smoking through subsidized treatment programs. They raised the taxes incrementally so that most smokers would not quit in protest, but have time to adjust to the higher prices. I guess every state in the Union now has a lottery, and quite a few have casinos. The States are making huge amounts of money off of this gambling revenue at the cost of ruining tens of thousands of lives and marriages. They have been collecting liquor taxes since prohibition, and offer no alcoholism treatment programs whatsoever. I wish someone would point out the difference between government and organized crime to me, I can no longer make the distinction. Income tax is no more than legalized extortion, and any other agency which charged the interest and penalties the IRS does would be busted for loan sharking.

Congressional commitees routinely sneak unconstitutional legislation through as tacked on last minute amendments, and the Supreme court looks the other way refusing to hear cases which are obviously unconstitutional but are expedient to police or government agencies. Minute by minute, day by day the government is destroying the constitution and all semblance of privacy or civil rights. the inexorable march towards a totalitarian police state continues at an ever increasing pace, and one of my greatest fears is that Y2K will open the floodgates to total collapse of the American way of life. That is TEOTWAWKI TO ME.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), April 19, 1999.

There may be some government posters here, but I suspect most of the annoying postings are a reflection of the USA "cultural war" between nationalists & globalists, and the other war between conservatives & liberals.

All sides have those with very strong feelings. Given the potential implications of Y2K, these feelings come out in postings.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), April 19, 1999.

Sometimes, the only way to clean up a mess, is to go "through" it.

Think of Y2K implications and possibilities as "clutter clearning" in terms of exposing what doesn't work well.

Perhaps we'll learn ... with direct experience. Since we haven't "gotten" it any other way. Perhaps we'll all be stronger, better people, in the long run.

Just, remember the children.

*Big Sigh*

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), April 19, 1999.

Excellent analysis Dano, Andy, Nikoli et al.

I fear the nation is too far gone for any awakening to the fact we've been slow-boiled. The small minority of us who see what's happening (Y2K and otherwise), are so minute a percentage, we don't even register on the national conciousness - which is what is necessary to turn our fatal destiny around.

Other factions such as Republicans, militias, Libertarians, Patriots and Conservative caucus' that see the handwriting on the wall, are either too busy warring amongst themselves, or too demonized by this current political zeitgeist to stand against it. They are powerless to do anything as witnessed by the impeachment trial, and the military brass' cowering to his bastardization of our Armed forces. This was an ideological war that the Conservative/Libertarian/Patriot opposition either willingly surrendered for convenience and comfort or was defeated through media subterfuge loyal to the king.

Couple that with the apathy and slumber - and we're cooked folks. Face it. Clinton has left us defenseless whilst he wages a war to establish his legacy to blot out his failings....either that or he's setting us up for disaster deliberately.

In either case, the only way to save our cohesion and existence as a nation would be through a national DEMAND for righteousness, and an immediate about-face of policy in regards to the military, Kosovo and Y2K.

You might as well wish for wings on cows.

We're a small group folks. We're having targets painted on us daily by the adept rhetorical brushes of current leadership that is skilled at creating scapegoats and re-directing fault through blame, and a public all-to-eager to gobble it up.

We GI's, to the political, societal or Y2K portents, are the enemies of the status quo.

Accept this reality folks, and make ready to stand against the onslaughts to follow....

...it's the only way a remnant will survive.

-- INVAR (gundark@sw.net), April 19, 1999.

We need a new awareness poll.

I'm picking up from people everyday, everywhere that they're preparing: it's not a whacko topic anymore.

There's even a Y2K endcap at my grocer store: rice, beans and canned milk. Doesn't say so, but that's expensive real estate and usually reserved for seasonal or new items.

Very soon, I believe the preparation level will be such that we can ignore the pollyanna bozos who want silence on Y2K: their voices/opinions are about to be inconsequential and powerless.

Then this disheartening struggle can finally end.

-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), April 19, 1999.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Dano, for saying what I have been thinking for quite some time. This forum has gone downhill rapidly. I used to see tons of posts on pratical preparation topics and now there are hardly any. For myself, I am taking it off my favorites list for now. I don't need to waste my time reading these bozos that can't even handle the *notion* that their perfect little world may change. Myself, and my family, we will SURVIVE.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), April 19, 1999.

INVAR is right: the game's over. It was lost a long time ago (New Deal) and now we get to see the crash and burn part. Andy's right about their use of Hegelian methods, Dano's right in identifying cartelized money interests as manipulating the masses through the non-free media, Joe Farah's right in pointing out that the true 'face of evil' is Clintonian, not Milosevician. When words have lost their meaning, humans have lost their freedom. And it depends on what 'is' means. The only way to win this game is to stop playing. Walk away. Carry water, chop wood. Retreat to a fastness, whether it be mental or physical. Stop playing.

-- Spidey (in@jam.com), April 20, 1999.