I need to talk out loud for a few minutes. This is the only place where I feel I can. I am a minister. Today, I was asked to meet with some members of my church community who are 'concerned' that I have become "paranoid, obsessive, burned-out, dark, fearful and depressed" and who apparently planned to do some sort of 'intervention' with me to help me realize that I 'really need help.'

The 6-8 people who wanted to meet with me are those who think Y2K is a non-event, and that I am no longer providing 'spiritual' guidance because I believe it is a very possible event. They believe I need a 'rest' or 'time-out' so that they can come to church and be with their community without the complicating factor of my presence. They believe my attempts to work with the community to prepare spiritually, as well as on a practical level, are evidence of pathology on my part. I have spoken about Y2k twice since I GI in early November - once then, once in February when the preview of the Senate report was published in our local paper.

I am meeting with other members of the church twice a month in the office to share prep ideas, to plan for contingencies, to organize church continuity plans if we cannot meet as we usually do due to fuel shortages, etc.

The 6-8 see themselves as rational, grounded, and logical. They see me and the others as weak, needy, fearful, dependent, and deluded. Sounds a lot like this forum, doesn't it?

I have refused to submit to a 'crucifixion committee' meeting with them, but am quite worried about an open schism in the church community between the GI's and DWGI's - given the high emotional charge everyone brings to this issue. And by scapegoating me, it can easily degenerate into attacking ME vs defending me. Yikes.

Every word out of my mouth now is being 'interpreted' according to this new view of me. It is very distressing, to say the least. I will pray and work to find the path to resolution that is large enough to include us all - and right now, I have no idea what that path is or where to find it. Keep us in your prayers. Thanks for listening.

-- (dazed, hurt@sad.bigsigh), April 10, 1999

Answers

Dear Reverend:

I know just how you feel. Keep in mind that this is a situation that springs from deep within the soul. Fear of loosing the "good life" and things that go with it are deeply nested if out brains. This has nothing to do with you or your postion in the church. a few will learn and get it, the others will not no matter what you say or how long you say it. It has nothing to do with religion as I see it, but reflects a persons basic character and values. When things get ugly next year or before, these traits will certainly manifest themselves.

Provide for your family, those who listen and be available to help those who never get the chance to hear. Scriptual principles can be applied here, the players are just different.

Your have extended yourself to the extent possible. The ones who wish to meet with you want to continue to have thier ears tickled. y2k confronts them head on - they might have to do something, heaven forbid.

sincerely,

Bob Pilcher

-- bob Pilcher (rpilch99206@aol.com), April 10, 1999.

My prayers are with you as you struggle with the everlasting problems that we human beings struggle with. I can only say that each of us has to do what we feel in our hearts and let others go and put them in Gods' hand. Years ago we had a similar situation when our Minister felt strongly about the Vietnam war. Division came and eventually he left our church under the pressure of the older members who believed we were fighting a "good" war. Many of the younger members left when our Minister left. Years later at a Conference I ran into our Minister. We were attending different Conferences being held in the same complex. I spent hours with him and we talked about what had happened. I learned that good had come from a situation that had seemed "bad". God works his way in mysterious ways....live long enough and you will experience this over and over again. If your congregation has an emergency to face (however it may come) they will call you "blessed". If all is well they may push you away...but know that you can find good in whatever happens. God is with you always. He is with each of us and he will work in and with us if we let Him. Let go of negative feelings. Let go and Let God. Know that others are praying for and with you. Sincerely, Old Gramma

-- Old Gramma (Gotitincalif@webtv.net), April 10, 1999.

The Joseph Project 2000 may have resources that you can tap:

http://www.jo sephproject2000.org/feldhahnbio.html

Here's someone that I draw inspiration from:

Why I Am a Y2K Optimist: http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a- fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000ezo

Faith,

~C~

-- Critt Jarvis (middleground@critt.com), April 10, 1999.

Greetings In the Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ!

You are not alone regarding your GI position and the church's DGI position. Several brothers at the church I attend as well as myself have numerous nursing home ministries. I received permission from my pastor to address our congregation regarding the divisive issue of Y2K. I presented a four part series over the course of a month, each briefly dealing with different aspects and difficulties of the bug. Some of my closest friends I preach with have said I'm way "out of balance." Our church is roughly split down the middle with GI's and DGI's. " [Prov 24:11] "If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;" [Prov 24:12] "If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?" I know I'm drawing this out of context (regarding warning the lost) but if the bug is a worse case scenario, the difference between a little prudent preparation and none at all could be life threatening. My heart has been heavy concerning this matter and the chastisement of friends does not help. I hope the DGI's out there realize that Christians do not desire calamity, and that it is our sincerest desire that they know the wonderful salvation that only Jesus Christ offers. My prayers are with you and your family. Stay strong brother. Our Redeemer liveth and is coming again.

-- trafficjam (judgement@day.soon), April 10, 1999.

Pastor Chris has a Forum. Is he also a minister in a physical church? Has he come up against this too?

To not research and act prudently would be to fail yourself, God, and your church. Noah's neighbors must have thought he was weird too -- especially when he started rounding up all those animals! Nowadays city officials armed with regulations aflapping and the men with white jackets would have commenced upon Noah's backyard at the sound of the first ark nail.

Tell the worried congregents to keep a big happy smile on their faces and ignore all the signs if they wish. You, however, will continue walking alongside God to the best of your ability. Each person is called to answer to his conscience. You obviously have a special mission of sensibility, and are able to look at facts. You care about others and are not an ostrich. Mention that there is a quick "unexpected" war occurring, that disasters of all sorts have a way of happening, and that *some* fast-growing churches actually recommend being prepared for a year of self-sufficiency as a prudent and wise way of life.

Be pleasant at all times, don't let them see you flustered or disappointed, and suggest that they are welcome to investigate the facts for themselves. Then change the subject.

For yourself, if you are in an area which offers emergency preparation training, TAKE IT! It will bolster you in many practical ways.
Here's a link:

http://fema.gov/emi/cert

COMMUNITY EMERGENCY RESPONSE TEAMS

This is a time for all types of churches/temples/mosques etc. to step up to the grassroots plate of "loving thy neighbor" in essential practical life-continuation ways.

Don't worry about the well-meaning idiosos who want to run mental health interference on your awakened consciousness. But do make a monumental effort to be relentlessly cheerful, upbeat, smiling, healthy, and loving at all times, as you are now under the magnifying fishbowl. It is possible to calmly, rationally talk with your small GI group about Y2K while maintaining a flawless exuberant cheerleader facade. "Preparation Feels Good!" Rah Rah Rah Go Team! Fun bonding field trips and shopping expeditions! Oooooohh :-)

You are now on the hot seat of Missionary Visionary. Enjoy the challenges :-)

Praying for your success, ease, laughter, and infusion of Joy From God, the Source of Infinite Mirth.

Ashton & Leska in Cascadia

xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), April 10, 1999.

Dear Dazed,
You wrote are 'concerned' that I have become "paranoid, obsessive, burned-out, dark, fearful and depressed" . Are you coming across this way? Maybe? Just a little bit?

I hope you are saying things like ,"If some foods become expensive, and "It would be prudent in case the water company has trouble with delivery for a little bit". Instead of "When there is no food in the stores" or "Most of our town will probably be without water for weeks!". Don't Get It's understand about insurance and being a good samaritan. The phrase, "I'd like to be in a position to help if there is any trouble" also seems a calm rational statement from a pastor. Best wishes, Berry

-- Berry Picker (berrypicking@yahoo.com), April 10, 1999.

This advice might sound contrary to common sense, but you might prayerfully consider being more out-front, not less. A series of teachings that lay out the scriptural ground for sober preparation, aid to the brethren and help to all our human neighbors, with Y2K as the explicit focus but WITH or WITHOUT TEOTWAWKI, is what these Christians need, whether they realize it or not.

As His servant, you can't avoid being, at times, a lightning rod for trouble, nor can you ensure the temporal result (ie, you might lose your position as a result of being faithful). The best answer to your being paranoid or dark is to bring in the light of scripture.

My experience (I am ordained, BTW, though I don't trade on that in my own rather unusual ministry) is that these things can't be "cooled" through indirection, much though YOU would prefer "peace" nor through behind-the-scenes efforts (IMO, they usually backfire worse).

Heck, since God's Word supports not only preparation, but "dependence" (directly on Him), "fear" (that is, godly fear), "weakness" (His weakness is stronger than man) and "neediness" (of His daily grace), these folks are actually more right than they realize ..... and a lot more wrong as well.

As for delusion about Y2K or anything in this weird pilgrimage, you and they stand in equal need of prayer, as do I.

Email me if you'd like to fellowship about this a bit.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), April 10, 1999.

Reverend, I can truly empathize with what you have said. I have just begun to work with a church on preparation myself. What a fascinating experience! (The cultural anthropologist in me loves it.)

Last week was my second visit with them as their guest speaker. (Im the local y2k lady.) I told this church group that my first response to the intellectual and emotional dismay of discovering the y2k problem was to research and meditate.

Heres what I shared about the fruits of my meditationI told them the first thing I heard was that warm, strong, confident Voice saying, Dont be afraid. Be of good cheer. I am with you always. I told them that I saw this as a wonderful opportunity for each of us to experience and express the reality of our faith, instead of merely having some abstract idea about it. I told them I was reminded that theres no situation that cannot be used for good. We have a chance to increase our gratitude for the relative wealth we enjoy, and to develop more compassion for those whose lot in life is one of deprivation. We have an opportunity to grow new connections between neighbors and communities. We have an opportunity to review our values and to make a new commitment to living by them.

I told them that once I realized the whole thing is way too complex and unknown for me, a mere mortal, to fathom or control, and surrendered my need to be in charge, it was easy for me just to let go of this silly overload of responsibility I thought I was supposed to carryYou know, the Save the World complex; wheres my satin cape? Anyway, once I dropped it, I could just kinda shrug and say, okay, show me what you want me to do.

For me personally the answer was, Tell people. My people are grownups. I will lead those who trust Me for guidance. But always remember to respect the choices that others make. It is not up to you to direct their paths; it is up to Me.

I think if you ask, you receive.

Well, what can I say? Were swept up in historys tide . . .which reminds me of this poster I saw once: Quintessential surfing scene. Perfect turquoise crystal waves, perfect surfers. And riding the biggest wave, grinning the biggest grin, was this old, old dude with wet, wild, long silver streaked hair, a huge silver beard. He was balanced as all get out on that board, just riding that tall steep mountain of water. You cant stop the waves, the poster said, but you can learn to surf. Seemed like a fine plan to me.

You know, Reverend, I got very relaxed when I read your goal:

 I will pray and work to find the path to resolution that is large enough to include us all. Thats a really fine goal, and Im sure youll be given the wisdom to implement it.

If it were me, I think I might go to each of those six or eight folks privately and ask them if they would pray with me for an inclusive resolution to the differences between us. Were not supposed to see things the same way; were just supposed to be of one spirit. And its an inclusive one, as I see it.

It helps to remember that every true community has to have at least one person that you just cant stand. And that We like someone because; we love someone anyway.

Let us know how it goes.

-- Faith Weaver (suzsolutions@yahoo.com), April 10, 1999.

dazed,hurt:

A church nearby to me has put out some Y2K information that seemed very progressive and openminded. They apparently first formed a Y2K task force to determine what to do. Right now they have an upcoming Y2K expert guest giving a talk hosted by them on the 18th; a Y2K Task Force Reporter newsletter (this month's topic is water); and the third edition of Preparing for Natural Disasters, Y2K and Beyond. The latter helps out with earthquakes and so on as well as Y2K. It may be a bit late but if you soloed and have not formed a task force yet, you still might be able to. Invite a cross section of GIs and DGIs to start and continue the task force, and let it be something that can handle floods, earthquakes, power outages, hurricanes, etc. of a general nature in addition to Y2K. The opportunity is there to increase your congregation by reaching out with this kind of info to the school / geographical community where the church is. One more thing, the info this task force started with actually came from a different church (in Santa Rosa, Calif.) and was just adapted a bit for this particular church, and the info itself is specifically not copyrighted, so the work of the task force is not necessarily large presuming you can get your hands on such information as a starting point, especially diskette format. I also concur with a previous poster who said make it fun, and would add make it optional so the DGIs don't have to do anything. It may be that by bringing up the issue and presenting it as a fait accompli that something must be done, the DGIs feel threatened and potentially outcasts if they didn't get into attack mode themselves. Perhaps you can find a way, if you have not already done so, to present the information in such a manner that the DGIs do not feel threatened (even socially) in any manner. In any case, it really is for the best to be well prepared, Y2K or no Y2K, so I think the DGIs are being a bit illogical and I suspect things will tend to work out well in the end presuming everyone can just keep cool. Best,

steve steve14XXXatXXXhomeXXXdotXXXcom (remove XXXs)

-- steve14 (x@y.z), April 10, 1999.

How very sad. You are leading your congregation in the finest tradition of the church (any church!) and I know you feel you are, which is why you are so stunned by the "crucifixion committee."

Is it possible you can "re-spin" your approach, make it preparedness for ANY disaster? Tornadoes, floods, hurricanes, winter storms, wildfires, earthquakes, whatever--do any of these disasters occur in or near your area? What do you do when someone is burned out of house and home? Wouldn't it be great to have a stockpile of stuff in the church basement for such unfortunate victims? Your plans for fuel shortages--what if there's another oil crisis brought on by OPEC or something else, as there very well may be? Just about any Y2K preparation is also valid for any other disaster or crisis.

I think you may have read here that Y2K srved as a catalyst for many of us, that we had already worried about problems with an increasingly fragile system. Y2K gave us the impetus to get going on our preparations. Perhaps this type of spin will serve you well in your endeavors.

A sermon on "God helps those who help themselves" wouldn't go amiss! There's the wise vs foolish virgins too. But I bet you know more apt sermon subjects than I!

I'm not a religious person but I admire and respect anyone who leads his flock so prudently. My very best wishes to you, sir, and I fervently hope your path becomes smoother. Come back here often and let us know how you're doing and if we can help.

Courage, mon brave!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), April 10, 1999.

Maybe you've lost your sense of humor...keep your messages upbeat, avoid seeming panicked...continue your preps with the GIs, continue to "humor" the others; there is not much time left before we know one way or the other how things turn out. And be prepared to be wrong as well as right.

-- a (a@a.a), April 10, 1999.

Reverend,I cannot begin to give you advice on this issue,as I'm not a particularly religious person,but I did come across an article in our local paper,which,if I can access,with my limited computer ability,you can too...it's from Washington,on an event at the Washington National Cathedral,which was held on March 11 this year...their website is www.cathedral.org,there is a big list of topics on the left hand side,if you push "Events",just scroll down till you hit the topic,Y2K Briefing on March 11...I mean,this was a very big thing,cosponsored by John Koskinen,who is,I believe, chairman of the Presidents Council on Year 2000 Conversion...I will include a small quote,from my paper; "He(Koskinen)urged individual communities to prepare for potential problems because the federal government would not be able to respond to emergencies occurring simultaneously across the country.Congregations and non-profits need to make sure their systems are Y2K compliant so they are able to operate when others may be depending on them,he said.Houses of worship and other nonprofits would need to continue to be *the safety net*for the disadvantaged who might need their shelters,soup kitchens or assistance for shut- ins." Go to the sight,print out the whole article...if this is going on at one of Washingtons most prestigious and respected cathedrals,it can hardly be construed by this group of people at your church as simply your own paranoid agenda... The number of Canon Carter Echols,the lay coordinator of social ministry at the cathedral,was given(202-537-2186)..I'm sure somebody there ought to be able to give you some insight and guidance,although it sounds as those the people who are causing you this totally undeserved grief need the guidance more...let us know what happens,if you can,sir,and good luck,Cynthia Yanicko

-- Cynthia Yanicko (yanicko@infonline.net), April 11, 1999.

There is a "crucifixion committee" in every church it seems. Here is a link to Larry Burkett's Y2K info. It has a link for the Joseph Project also. You may already have this info, but just in case you don't: Larry Burkett

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), April 11, 1999.

Here is another link you might want to check out. I hope it helps you in some way. Just know that you are not alone. His Peace

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), April 11, 1999.

Dear Reverend,

I really have empathy for your situation.

One of my long-ago friends was a minister in a local church. A young fellow, it seemed like some of the members had nothing more to do than beat up on this guy. They could pay him nearly nothing; he had a second p/t job but still could barely survive; he talked with the deacons and asked if he could rent a room in the house (came with the church) for some money. They agreed, on the condition that him being single, it couldn't be to a woman of course. He put an ad in the paper and rented to a man.

Three months later an "inquisition group" demanded he meet with them to defend himself from their opinion that he was probably gay. I mean it was ludicrous. He refused even to talk about it, saying the very comment was so insulting to his collar he wouldn't deign to answer to it. This and other things led me to believe that for many people, religion invokes many of their "power/control" issues, for the very same reasons it invokes amounts of lack of control, vulnerability issues (God being powerful and us being... er... not, in Christian theology, except through Him).

Meaning that many 'control issues' people have may get manifested through the church congregation. And you of course are the authority figure, and easier to argue against than most peoples' bosses, parents, and other authority figures (including God).

But, that little story wasn't why I'm responding. I wanted to point out two things:

(1) If Y2K is even 1/10th as bad as people like Yourdon expect, you are going to have a "Leadership" issue way bigger than your current congregation on a bad day -- and the stress is going to be enormous, and the questions of your authority, of you doing the right thing in any decisions, having the right to make them etc. are going to be very strong, partly because people will be frightened and responding badly, and partly because you may have many people who suddenly become "part" of your congregation hoping for food or shelter or friendship but who do not, inherently, know you or respect you. Sounds to me like God may be giving you a little bit of practice -- consider it exercise -- in all this. :-)

(2) In the end, YOU are the authority in the Church. If you lose your authority in the church, you have lost the cornerstone of why you are there. If churches didn't need an authority figure and a single point-of-control, they wouldn't have preachers, people would all just show up and sing on Sundays. I don't mean be an autocrat, and of course the feelings and will of your congregation are vitally important to you. I just mean that you can quietly yet very firmly maintain authority by doing what you have done: refusing to allow yourself to be a victim of somebody else's control issues.

(3) A lesson my friend mentioned above learned in retrospect. Because he was young and lacked some experience, and because the environment of the church became so polarized over the issue mentioned, to some degree he actually avoided those people who were attacking him, and even did less in-home visiting with other members of the church, partly from his anger, and partly because he thought it might eventually just pass. In retrospect, he would have visited as many people in the church per day as he could. In their home. And he would have made a point to regularly visit, in-home, all the people who were attacking him. Partly because then, they are not in the safety of a group of people helping them act like a mob. They are one on one. And he says if they had brought up the troublesome issue, he would have simply said, "God has more important things for me and for you to do than worry about gossip or differences in opinion. I'm here to talk about you, because as your Minister I care about you. Tell me, how is the family?" and so on. Alas, wisdom in retrospect! For whatever it's worth I thought I'd pass that on.

(4) Lastly, you know that God will have you where he wants you when the time comes. Who knows if that is where you are, or somewhere that right now, you can't even imagine. In the end, that "let go and let God" kind of comes into play. This is all quite a grand adventure! It's going to get even more interesting as time goes on. Maybe this is an example of how you can practice and demonstrate faith: using the good mind God gave you, you make plans for what seems logical, but you stay open to God sending you in another direction if needed. Figure that God, if asked, will take care of it. Either it will resolve itself, in which case you won't need to worry, or it won't and you'll end up leaving the church, in which case that's probably what he had planned for you for this auspicious time anyway, or it won't and those individuals will leave the church... which won't kill any of you.

Y2K is an interesting parallel to David, who asked God for the insight to explain the Pharoah's dream, which turned out to be about 7 years of plenty and 7 years of lean, and thanks to his good advice, the Pharoah prepared (stored grain), and eventually David was King. Er, I think I have that right, my last encounter with that tale was at about age 12. :-) (Not a church goer, you can tell eh.)

Best wishes for you and your congregation.

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), April 11, 1999.

Dear Reverend,

I really have empathy for your situation.

One of my long-ago friends was a minister in a local church. A young fellow, it seemed like some of the members had nothing more to do than beat up on this guy. They could pay him nearly nothing; he had a second p/t job but still could barely survive; he talked with the deacons and asked if he could rent a room in the house (came with the church) for some money. They agreed, on the condition that him being single, it couldn't be to a woman of course. He put an ad in the paper and rented to a man.

Three months later an "inquisition group" demanded he meet with them to defend himself from their opinion that he was probably gay. I mean it was ludicrous. He refused even to talk about it, saying the very comment was so insulting to his collar he wouldn't deign to answer to it. This and other things led me to believe that for many people, religion invokes many of their "power/control" issues, for the very same reasons it invokes amounts of lack of control, vulnerability issues (God being powerful and us being... er... not, in Christian theology, except through Him).

Meaning that many 'control issues' people have may get manifested through the church congregation. And you of course are the authority figure, and easier to argue against than most peoples' bosses, parents, and other authority figures (including God).

But, that little story wasn't why I'm responding. I wanted to point out two things:

(1) If Y2K is even 1/10th as bad as people like Yourdon expect, you are going to have a "Leadership" issue way bigger than your current congregation on a bad day -- and the stress is going to be enormous, and the questions of your authority, of you doing the right thing in any decisions, having the right to make them etc. are going to be very strong, partly because people will be frightened and responding badly, and partly because you may have many people who suddenly become "part" of your congregation hoping for food or shelter or friendship but who do not, inherently, know you or respect you. Sounds to me like God may be giving you a little bit of practice -- consider it exercise -- in all this. :-)

(2) In the end, YOU are the authority in the Church. If you lose your authority in the church, you have lost the cornerstone of why you are there. If churches didn't need an authority figure and a single point-of-control, they wouldn't have preachers, people would all just show up and sing on Sundays. I don't mean be an autocrat, and of course the feelings and will of your congregation are vitally important to you. I just mean that you can quietly yet very firmly maintain authority by doing what you have done: refusing to allow yourself to be a victim of somebody else's control issues.

(3) A lesson my friend mentioned above learned in retrospect. Because he was young and lacked some experience, and because the environment of the church became so polarized over the issue mentioned, to some degree he actually avoided those people who were attacking him, and even did less in-home visiting with other members of the church, partly from his anger, and partly because he thought it might eventually just pass. In retrospect, he would have visited as many people in the church per day as he could. In their home. And he would have made a point to regularly visit, in-home, all the people who were attacking him. Partly because then, they are not in the safety of a group of people helping them act like a mob. They are one on one. And he says if they had brought up the troublesome issue, he would have simply said, "God has more important things for me and for you to do than worry about gossip or differences in opinion. I'm here to talk about you, because as your Minister I care about you. Tell me, how is the family?" and so on. Alas, wisdom in retrospect! For whatever it's worth I thought I'd pass that on.

(4) Lastly, you know that God will have you where he wants you when the time comes. Who knows if that is where you are, or somewhere that right now, you can't even imagine. In the end, that "let go and let God" kind of comes into play. This is all quite a grand adventure! It's going to get even more interesting as time goes on. Maybe this is an example of how you can practice and demonstrate faith: using the good mind God gave you, you make plans for what seems logical, but you stay open to God sending you in another direction if needed. Figure that God, if asked, will take care of it. Either it will resolve itself, in which case you won't need to worry, or it won't and you'll end up leaving the church, in which case that's probably what he had planned for you for this auspicious time anyway, or it won't and those individuals will leave the church... which won't kill any of you.

Y2K is an interesting parallel to David, who asked God for the insight to explain the Pharoah's dream, which turned out to be about 7 years of plenty and 7 years of lean, and thanks to his good advice, the Pharoah prepared (stored grain), and eventually David was King. Er, I think I have that right, my last encounter with that tale was at about age 12. :-) (Not a church goer, you can tell eh.)

Best wishes for you and your congregation.

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), April 11, 1999.

Sorry. The server did something really weird and posted that twice quite against MY will (think I hit the back and reload button on the sent-success page by accident). I can't count anyway, as you noticed.

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), April 11, 1999.

Padre, It seems the clowns who want to hammer you up need education. Tone down your preaching. Let your flock read what the Red Cross says (paltry as it might be).Get the Red Cross/Fema Pubs. Then ask them if they will minister to the less prepared. Set aside funds for the last quarter of 1999. Buy the basics and store them. If/When the hatchet men find the goods tell them it is for the******** refugees.If you happen to live in an area of the country where natural disasters occur you might have a chance to play upon the self preservation card .You might also set up a food bank for the less provident. It may help your flock.

-- nine (nine_fingers@hotmail.com), April 11, 1999.

Father,

Some good points in the above responses. I too, believe some good will come out of this situation. I think your solution will be revealed through prayer, but in the meantime, the "divide and conquer" approach may not be a bad idea. What if--after church some Sunday afternoon--you just started visiting the homes of the "crucifixion committee" one by one, with no advance notice? Brief conversations at every stop, not enough time in between for each to get on the telephone with the others? (If nothing else--they might stop picking on you for fear of you showing up at their homes unannounced?) AND this would give you an opportunity to listen to their concerns, individually. I bet those concerns will sound a lot different than what you'd hear from these folks as a group.

In the meantime, I copied this off the Washington Cathedral Site. Perhaps it may be of help. I wouldn't doubt other pastors are facing the same situation. THAT's who you need to network with. There's a phone number at the bottom of the post. Take care. We'll say prayers, too.

Y2K RESPONSES FOR CONGREGATIONS AND NON-PROFITS

1. Provide an alternative to alarmist and individual survivalist voices.

2. Consider who is at greatest risk in your congregation such as people who are elderly and live alone,families that live from paycheck to paycheck, and people with mental and physical health needs.

3. Help all parishioners learn about preparation options and then develop appropriate plans.

4. Develop communication mechanisms (such as phone trees, or if telephones fail, neighborhood buddies or visits) to check on members who are at risk if services are disrupted.

5. Ensure that your congregation's systems (from PC's to payroll, and heating to security) are Y2K compliant.

6. Help the nonprofit organizations and ministries that you support to prepare their systems and assure their uninterrupted service to people in greatest need.

7. Consider possible Y2K implications for the neighborhood in which you worship and join (or lead)neighborhood preparedness efforts.

8. Learn about risks for your community and then advocate for preparedness, contingency planning and helpful information from governments, businesses and health care professionals in all parts of your city.

9. Address the emotional need of parishioners.

10. Proclaim and demonstrate that Y2K is a community problem and all members of all our communities must be cared for as we prepare for it.

Prepared by R. Carter Echols, Canon Missioner at Washington National Cathedral. For more information about Y2K contact Canon Echols at 202-537-2186.

-- FM (vidprof@aol.com), April 11, 1999.

They believe that a virgin gave birth but they don't believe in Year 2000? Let's see, do they only believe things if everybody else believes them? Or worse, do they only pretend to believe things to go along with the crowd? These people don't sound like they can believe in anything they can't see, and therefore they don't belong in a church.

Additionally, a lot of people engage in "magical thinking", like an abused child who believes that it won't happen again. When it comes to Y2k, magical thinking is rampant. "The Marines will come in with generators if it gets that bad" is what my one person in my family said.

-- Amy (leoneamy@aol.com), April 11, 1999.

Like any organization, churches are subject to the whole spectrum of Y2K severity opinions. The fact is, with such a wide variety of information available, the complexity of the issue and the amount of disinformation going on, it is really impossible to know for sure how serious the effects will be. Whilst prudent preparations make sense to me, again it is impossible to set a 'prudence line' which will please everyone. Y2K opinions are like butt cracks, everyone has one and everyone thinks theirs is just perfect.

Unfortunately, being a church, you have one more factor that comes into play that makes an already 'impossible to come to consensus issue' even worse. If your church is like many I have experienced over the years, you also are dealing with the 'hearing from God issue'. This is where groups in the church that have differing opinions are all convinced that they are completely right because they have 'heard from God' and thus those with other opinions 'are not hearing from God'. The issue then doesn't end with who is most correct about Y2k, but rather who is hearing from God, and ultimately who is 'right with God' and who 'isn't right with God'. I've seen that foolishness played over and over and over for years and fortunately learned to stay away and avoid the idiocy of it all.

IMHO, don't expect to reach peace on the issue within the church until such a time as the members come to the realization that no one person has the exclusive franchise on understanding the truth, and being right or wrong on any issue has nothing whatsoever to do with being God's children. This may seem simple, however it is not. The evidence of this is in the churches. Just my opinion from years of being there, but the more 'pentecostal' elements in a church, the more trouble you will have.

Basically, you will just have to live with this problem to some degree and unfortunately take the bruises that 'religious' people regularly inflict on one another in the name of God.

Good luck!!

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), April 12, 1999.

I am not a pastor or involved in a church, but what you describe sounds like my family and freinds. I have no idea what to do about it. Only a tiny minority of people ever seem to see disaster coming, which is why it's called a disaster, I guess. Sorry I can't help more.

Forrest Covington

-- Forrest M Covington, Jr. (theforrest@mindspring.com), July 14, 1999.