Executive Order on Foreign Made Ammo

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I stopped off at my local gun range where I'm a member this morning. While there I noticed that all the ammo was being marked up for a third time this week. When I asked why, the owner explained that Clinton had executed an executive order banning the import of foreign made 308 ammo. But customs agents in California were turning away ships regardless of the caliber being carried.

Also the owner claimed that legislation has passed in the senate and is before the house to give ammo a shelf life of 6 months. When I stated that it might be time to start doing my own reloading. The owner said that wouldn't work either. Shelf life additive would be in the powder also. Can anyone confirm this?

-- Curious (curious@com.com), March 23, 1999

Answers

Well if you can't ban the guns.....

My question is about "shelf life additive". I've never heard of such a thing in this context. I would find it hard to believe that it exists, and is in use.

I say this because of the "Tagens" (sp?) issue of several years ago. Tagens are an identifying microscopic particle that can be included in gun powder & other explosives to help determine where the explosive was purchased and possibly get a "chain of sale".

Anyway, there was a furor over its effectiveness, safety, etc. Safety was the biggie. Not much study was done, and obviously if you dilute the explosives with this inert material, ballistics, velocity, and other characteristics would change.

To add "shelf life additive" (whatever that is) would have the same effect and I find it hard to believe it can go into the ammunition in a timely manner before Y2K.

As for executive order outlawing .308 ammo. Who the hell knows? The whole EO process is totally arbitrary and out of control.

Finally, as for legislation before congress. I don't believe it at all. Gunowners of America is a watchdog organization in Washington and the states that keeps track of this kind of stuff. (they're at: http://www.gunowners.org/ )

They don't have anything about this, and they're *very* good at digging this kind of information up. If there's legislation or committee action, it's behind closed doors (which is certainly possible).

Jolly

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), March 23, 1999.


We're having a hard time getting a case of Russian 7.62 ammo for an SKS, it's been back ordered 3 weeks now. Suppose to be shipped in 7 days, we'll see.

-- ScreamingYellowZonkers (ScreamingYellowZonkers@Scream.com), March 23, 1999.

Well, nothing like being wrong [probably].

Prompted by this post, I went to a local gun store to buy a magazine (you figure out which kind) and the owner and two customers were talking about this subject.

The owner said that he'd been called by his ammunition distributor today to cancel an order. According to the owner, all importation of small arms ammunition is banned from Canada, Mexico, Korea, Russia, Czech Republic (and another country I don't remember).

It applies to all sizes, not just .308. The store owner said that prices are already skyrocketing.

So my question here is: what is our government afraid of? It prevents law abiding citizens from acquiring ammunition. Aside from it being blatant and illegal, what's next? Several people speculated that domestic ammo controls would be an obvious next step.

Naturally, Winchester, Remington, et al wouldn't be put out of business without a fight, but with our government already running amok, who knows?

*sigh* 'nuff said.

Jolly the rumor-monger.

*sigh*

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), March 23, 1999.


there is no such thing as "shelf life additive". There were attempts insert tagants into small arms powder, but that is not legal at this time. all tagants do is provide a chemical fingerprint for tracing the source of a specific batch of gunpowder.

don't know about the ban on imports. have to see what happens.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), March 23, 1999.


Will call my distributor tomorrow and see if there is any shortages. My order last week came but NOT the 7.62x39.

-- y2klay2 (y2klady2@aol.com), March 23, 1999.


An additive that decreases "shelf life" of primer or powder seems likely to accelerate the onset of instability. Not a good idea.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), March 23, 1999.

Any additive designed to reduce the shelf life of ammunition could be easily overcome by freezing the ammunition. The speed of chemical reactions is reduced by about half for every 10 deg. C [18 deg. F] reduction in temperature. This means that six months at 60 Fahrenheit is about four years at 0 Fahrenheit.

Or so I see it.

-- Ned (entaylor@cloudnet.com), March 24, 1999.


I have plenty of ammo, and components to reload any forseeable amount that might be used in a couple of years.

If Post Y2k, I need ammo, I may find someone who will "donate" ammo to me. Especially after they've attacked me, and I had to shoot them. Sure is helpful that they'll be using the same caliber that I do... :)

-- Bill (billclo@hotmail.com), March 24, 1999.


I stand corrected on the existance of a proposed E.O. This from a friend with very reliable sources:

> >Importers of Israeli ammo have had their Form 6s rejected, even for stuff >that is on the docks; other importers have had incredible backlogs in >paperwork processing from Commerce. The reason allegedly given is that >the Administration is invoking an old law about military aid, which >states that arms made with "U.S. technology" cannot be imported into this >country. My source tells me this was a law Ruger, Colt & Winchester >lobbied for to make sure that taxpayer dollars were't used to subsidize >their competition. Now comes the Clintonistas saying that this applies >to ammo as well. There is a trade group fighting this thing, but I >haven't been able to find out where or which. > >ALSO, a source at Quantico tells a friend that Clinton has an import ban >on ALL weapons and ammunition from overseas signed and ready to go, but >is just waiting for the right moment....Do you feel a schoolyard massacre >coming on? This is supposed to bring us in line with UN policy on the >ban of all civilian trade in weapons. > >Aside from unimportant details, that's what I know at this point. >

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), March 24, 1999.


Rumor control- such a wonderful thing.

The panic seems to have begun regardless of the facts, and it seems to be exacerbated by y2k concerns.

The facts as far as I can determine them: One overseas manufacturer (won't say who) seems to have gotten in official trouble for using US- supplied eqipment to load one particular caliber (5.56mm/.223) for import/commercial sale in the US. That is a no-no, it seems. And they have been scotched for at least a couple of months in supplying any more of that caliber. Which has produced a backlog of orders for everyone else who exports that caliber to the US (and they can still bring theirs in- only one manufacturer is involved), thus causing a snowballing shortage for everyone else since demand has been shifted onto fewer suppliers. And the rumors are causing additional buying of all sorts of initially unaffected calibers as well, which is causing shortages there too. And shortages lead to higher prices.

I heard the initial story last Friday and went to checking. Thus the above. BTW, there are more than twenty interesting pieces of legislation pending dealing with ammunition that I found when I went through THOMAS, the Congressional search engine. Most any one of them would be enough to provoke a panic buying spree as well. Take a look... .

Ammo shelf life? 20, 30, 40 years given proper storage conditions. No worries about tampering with chemicals in primers or powders, not yet anyway.

Some rules to remember:

Amateurs talk tactics- experts discuss logistics.

It is better to have what you don't need than need what you don't have. (OK, be reasonable.)

-- (li'ldog@ontheporch.com), March 24, 1999.



Gee, I'm not sure I feel better or worse! :-)

One manufacturer of ammo. I always thought this was low-tech, guess I was wrong.

I imagine a great amount of the shortages might be also caused by the increased demand. A year ago, I didn't care, and neither did 3 of my friends. Now we're all into stashing.

Interesting tidbit on THOMAS. Not sure I can stand the stress.

Jolly

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), March 24, 1999.


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