Know your (hypocritical) optimist

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

We've seen a huge increase lately of pollys coming in here, most from the BFI board. If you have ever had the misfortune of checking it out, you know BFI is ruled by Charlie Reuben, aka CPR. According to Charlie, "they" are working on it, "they" aren't stupid, and of course, GN is a BFI. But does Chuckie really believe that? You decide.


from http://home.swbell.net/buytexas/Y2K1FAQ.HTM and http://www.dfwdama.com/Y2K1FAQ.htm
1.WHAT IS THE YEAR 2000 PROBLEM ??

(answer supplied by Charles Reuben,MA,Dallas)

The "Year 2000 Problem" has several easy to understand causes which lead to problems which are very complex and require expertise to fix. Computer systems have only been in use for the last 50 Years. The actual Year 2000 itself has never happened before and there were no Computers in the Year 1000. Year 2000 is a Leap Year coupled with hardware and software defects all combine to create a giant set of problems that Businesses have never encountered before. Experts have warned of the problem for years. Many large problems can still be fixed but...... TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE! There are 3 Years to 2000 but in reality, large and small users MUST have their systems in place and ready no later than Early 1999 to insure they will work!!


MUST have their systems in place in early 1999? What month is it now? Yet Charlie still says everything will be ok?


It is IMPERATIVE to understand that the Desk Top Personal Computer in a large Corporation with data in a NON Y2K "compliant" form,,,CAN POLLUTE A PROGRAM IN A MAIN FRAME COMPUTER OR A SERVER of any size.. If safeguards are not taken on the Main Frame or Server end, then it should be clear that those safeguards must be taken at the Client Level. This is NOT A TRIVIAL TASK!!! I have stated openly that the "nightmare of the Computer Professionals has come true, ..."the Users got free" ". It was a dramatic way of saying that all the work to clean up a major problem can be "screwed up" by the Fat Clients and the legacy Software and Data.

This sounds an awful lot like GN's assertion that the problem is systemic....


Chuckie says (on BFI) "don't buy gold! it's all a scam". But what does he really think? When asked to rate the following statements with a number beside each: 9=For sure, 1=Nope, not me

from http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/goal2000/sdetails.htm

From: Charles Reuben
7-- buying gold, Some of the IT people here are planning trips and intend to be away for the weekend. They think about gold and silver with some preference for the latter. I tell them to have silver and gold coins. In reality, certain types of food would be better because you can barter with that. I, OTOH, want to be liquid but it will be long before 1/1/2000. As a contrarian, I buy after panics. Which explains my arrival in Dallas by 1990.

1 taking money out of banks, and/or..... No one here sees a need for that. They are more concerned with the "transaction mechanisms". I will deal with that shortly in posting.

4 ...arranging to be in a safe haven or at least have a safe haven option for Dec 31, 1999? ......... There will be no safe harbors though Switzerland might be good bet. They have made it through 500 years without a drop of Swiss blood being shed.


recommending gold? AND FOOD FOR BARTER??? Chuckie, you are a hypocrital jerk. Take your trolls and go back to "BIFFY" where you can lie to clueless newbies and get away with it, cuz it won't fly here!

-- Mother Nacho (exposing@hypocrites._), March 22, 1999

Answers



-- _ (_@_._), March 22, 1999.

Mama Nacho: LOL Somebody needs to repost this to GNIABFI.

-- a (a@a.a), March 22, 1999.

When looking through information it is important to see how current it is. While Mr. Rueben does appear to be hyprocritical in regards to the gold issue, a simple look at the survey indicates this survey was created on 5/2/97 . Two years might not sound like a lot of time, but in the world of Y2K remidiation or in other cases procastination it is a couple of lifetimes. By taking a simple look at The Russ Kelly Experts Survey you can easily see that as late as June of 1998 Mr. Rueben thought that the consequences of Y2K would be an 8 out of 10. Now he is a 5.5 It is not hyprocritical to change one's opinion as the information comes in. You have illustrated a point though that is quite often made of at GNIABFI: A good percentage of the information that is used by the pessimists is outdated. I am not accusing them of doing this on purpose, but whatever their motive it is irrelevant to the outcome. Conclusions built on bad data will almost always turn out to be wrong.

-- Silvano S. (silvano_specht@mailexcite.com), March 22, 1999.

"Don't waste your time Sysman. Their latest post is about a horse named Gary North. It looks like they spent most of the day attacking Ed Yourdon and us. No news over there, just a bunch of idiots. -- GI (noclue@toobad.com), March 22, 1999."

Pot calling the kettle black? (you started it! no, you did!!!)

-- M. Thumper (something.smells@round.here.com), March 22, 1999.


Honestly folks, it is now Spring 1999, time is way to short to be worrying about pollyanna wackos. I am sorry to say this, but at this point my attitude is that anyone who denies the seriousness of Y2K deserves what they are going to get. For that matter, people who intellectually profess to believe in the seriousness of Y2K, but do little or nothing to prepare, also will have noone to blame but themselves.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), March 22, 1999.


Jack: I totally agree with you and it even goes a step further for me when my neighbors who can do nothing to help me (I'm self-sufficient), start knocking on my door for a handout. It doesn't matter to me now what anyone says because the line has been drawn. It's no longer IMHO the term GI and DGIs, it's now TBFY (Too Bad For You) and LFM (Lucky For Me)....25 million body bags doesn't seem too far off an accurate count.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), March 22, 1999.

M. Thumper - my reply to GI this AM, after following a blind link to the GNIABFI forum a few days ago:

Thanks GI. I have no plans on going over there. For one thing I'ld die of boredom. They only have about 10 new threads a day. When they can't find any "good news" they resort to name calling to keep themselves entertained. I think we're called the "swamp pit". Real intelligent crowd. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), March 22, 1999.

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), March 22, 1999.


Assess all sources for their nature and trustworthiness.

-- Watchful (seethesea@msn.com), March 22, 1999.

For "mother nacho" (who apparently lacks the imaginative skills to create a 'handle' without use of a template):

Typical doombrood nonsense and tactics. Get as much outdated info as you can, then try to convince your fellow cultists that "they" are hypocrites and liars! (unless, of course, their tune goes from OPTI...to...PESS. then they are True GI's. Look at De Jager. 'Revered' by the meme doombrood until he turned "traitor"! Bennett? a Hero...unless he "waffles" then He's 'gonna have blood on his hands'. GartnerGroup, Simpson, etc. etc.

YOU OBVIOUSLY OPERATE ONLY ON PRE-CONCIEVED NOTIONS (no doubt fed to you by others. ever wonder what it would be like to be a free-thinker?) [at this point mother nacho's eyes glaze over as the concept of free thought tries to filter in thru the granite substance which is his brain...."does not compute" ...fzzzzz....FFFZZZZ....BANG! system overload!]

Consider your leader... his "book" would have been excused by most optimists, given the date of writing... but the 2nd Ed? any changes? any updates on the FACTS of remediation? conveniently passed over!

What about the FACT that embedded systems are turning out to be a 'meow' instead of the 'roar' that was first speculated? (by the doombrood)and no, most ignorant ones...I did not say there will be zero embedded problems; so don't put words in my mouth.

What about the EURO? JAE? the "flash point" dates that we have crossed?

And closer to home (for youse folks) how about the firetrucks? I notice alls quiet on the 'for the record' front...what gives? Huh? There is apparently an 'open records' law or something...should be easy to find the data needed to back up the claims of one 'Dan'...

This forum (and extremists like you) is/are a joke. ANY...ANY news or facts that even hint at the positive... ARE INSTANTLY DOWNPLAYED! OTOH, anything 'bad' (even rumor or speculation) is trumped to the skies!

Get a clue, would you?

Thinking people change with the facts... something North (his constant '10') and people here can only hope to attain after rollover (but I doubt 'the Gare' will ever come to his senses). The ultimate cure for the meme is Father Time. I am personally hoping that many, MANY people will see clearly how the hucksters used the 'insurance sales pitch' to scare the crap out of those they shafted. Maybe...just maybe...

Ask yourselves a question...

"what would I do if EY, North, and some of the others suddenly said 'I'm now a 5 on the scale...' Would I label them 'turncoats' 'traitors' or worse?"

Your answer speaks VOLUMES of how you are viewing the 2000 rollover.

ta-ta

-- Mutha Nachu (---@exposingidiotsandlyers.com), March 22, 1999.


Mutha:

Although it's a hopeless quest, you are spang in the center of the right path. Too bad the doomsheep here have turned it into a treadmill.

A year from now, do you suppose these people will still be predicting meltdown? Or more likely, will they be convinced that the catastrophe is being kept hidden from us by a media-government conspiracy?

One good thing, though. During my time on this forum, I have come to a really good understanding of the meaning of 'pravda'.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 22, 1999.



Here's how Jan . 1, 1999 was dealt with--electronic Band-Aids.

Most people who call this forum are fairly intelligent, Mutha Nachu. There is a reason for the situation you described as 'ANY news or facts that even hint at the positive...ARE INSTANTLY DOWNPLAYED!' It's been obvious from November on that 'trolls' or 'shills' have been systematically calling here to disrupt or confuse. We notice it and it's old. And we've answered the same questions over and over.

Don't most of you instantly downplay 'pessimistic' news at Biffy? Don't lie--I've seen it.

We'd be happy to hear any updates you might have on the facts of remediation, Mutha. Just how many Fortune 500 corporations are compliant now?

-- (watching@observing.com), March 22, 1999.


Watcher:

I'll trade with you. To answer your question: NO fortune 500 companies are fully compliant right now.

Now for my question: How many fortune 500 companies have reached the point where they could continue to function adequately?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 22, 1999.


Flint,

"Although it's a hopeless quest..."

So...I'm a hopeless romantic! (:

"A year from now, do you suppose these people will still be predicting meltdown?"

The smart ones (on the huckster side) will back down before fall...otherwise they risk their credibility, when they move to new scams. On the lighter side, I can just picture GN's "links and forums" with something like this on it...

Well, it's now mid-March, 2000. I've been saying it all along, the world fell apart two months ago. But the Government, the Power companies, the Telco's, the Banks...the are all lying and covering up the truth. That light that comes on when you flip the switch?...SECRET POWER RESERVE! Alien technology or something! It must run out sometime! The telephones?...they are pulling something with microwaves or ham radios or tin-cans/string or something...THE LINES ARE DOWN I TELL YA! The banks? ITS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME... I told you in the 80's they would fail...THEY HAVE TO FAIL...it's only a matter of time...It might take decades (or centuries) BUT I WILL EVENTUALLY GET ONE PREDICTION CORRECT!!!! WHAT??? you complain your gold bullion isn't worth a sparrow's fart?!? YOU SHOULD HAVE SOLD IN LATE '99 LIKE I DID.... but to change the subject, don't forget bio-terror. Or the unix date. or....

Buy my waste of paper publication RR and I'll explain it all! Answer the critics with your checkbook (by handing it to me, that is...)

(:

"pravda"...LOL!

-- Mutha Nachu (---@liliesofthevalleys.com), March 22, 1999.


Mutha,

It makes absolutely no sense not to prepare to some extent. Are you telling me that you have no extra food or water? If so, why not? There's a chance that things may go bad, isn't that enough? Food is cheap and plentiful. Why not buy some rice and wheat? What's the big deal?

-- d (d@dgi.old), March 22, 1999.


'How many fortune 500 companies have reached the point where they could continue to function adequately?' is the question you asked, Flint. My answer to this is: I don't know. And that's another reason why I'm preparing for Y2K.

If you know the answer to your question, Flint, then let us know. Same goes for Mutha Nachu.

-- (watching@observing.com), March 22, 1999.



Watcher:

I sure wish I knew. But that's one question I'm always looking for hints on. I think 'full compliance' is a pipedream. I don't believe *any* large organization will ever get there completely. The question as always is, how close is close enough? What noncompliances will be killers, and what will be jokes?

On another topic: even optimists buy insurance. I'm prepared for a lot worse than I expect. As has been expressed here many times, if not much happens and I'm surrounded by rooms full of unnecessary stuff, I'll have no regrets at all. And I'll keep a good stockpile for the rest of my life, so I can always sleep a little better. The often-mentioned conclusion that those who don't expect problems aren't preparing seems false to me. Seriously bad events call for preparation, even if their probability seems small.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 22, 1999.


And here's your response, Mother Nachos (Ranch or Jack?)

CPR

-- BigBadTrolls (GNBFI@GNBFI.com), March 22, 1999.


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