STRANGE HAZE

Second try - I woz deleted the first time around...

"ONE THING IS CERTAIN -- PEOPLE FROM ALL AREAS OF THE UNITED STATES ARE SEEING THE SAME THING. WHO CAN POSSIBLY CALL THIS NORMAL?"

"Please delete me, let me go...."

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), March 10, 1999

Answers

Andy - our Javascript idiot hacked your first post. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), March 10, 1999.

I still wonder if this has anything to do with controlling the weather. Looks like "seeding the clouds" which they used to do to try and make rain.

Controlling weather would be a valuable military tactic.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@anonymous.com), March 10, 1999.

Don't you think linear organophosphate clouds are pretty? WE do.

-- The Testers (taxes@work.mil), March 10, 1999.

Don't you think linear organophosphate clouds are pretty?

That's gotta be it.. Zap the Y2K bugs wherever they are. Before they zap us.

Mil specs are read literally, and followed to the letter. Or KYAGB.

(I think I'm joking here.)

Adlai Stevenson: "I'm too old to cry, and it hurts too much to laugh."

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), March 10, 1999.

I looked at all the photos linked to by that web-site. Nothing looks unusual to me.

Has anyone tried asking a meteorologist?

-- Doesn't look unusual to me (skeptic@contrails.us), March 10, 1999.

Look at the third one, where a straight trail has only ONE leg of a perpendicular trail branching off. I saw one of these in Austin on Sunday - these are obviously trajectories - and the one I saw spiraled as it went down down. What's up?

-- Lisa (looks@normal?.doesit), March 10, 1999.

Interesting to see the NOAA sat. pix of the trails over MD and D.C.

-- x (final@last.gov), March 10, 1999.

"Has anyone tried asking a meteorologist? "

ya gotta laff!!!

u mean those fools on teevee that tell you it might be a tad windy whilst it's blowing a force 9 ouside...

ya, right...

nope - they're up to summit...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), March 10, 1999.

Andy, you really make me laugh. You're so full of yourself.

No, a meteorologist is not one of "those fools" on TV that tell you the weather. That's usually a broadcaster that the station doesn't know what else to do with.

A meteorologist is a scientist. Has anyone asked the National Weather Service or any other similar scientific body who might be able to explain the behaviors of contrails?

By the way, the contrails over Maryland don't appear unusual to me because there are at least 4 major airports in the Washington/Maryland metro area where jets fly in and out--BWI, Dulles, National, and Andrews Air Force Base. Not to mention the normal east coast flight patterns.

-- You guys see trouble everywhere (paranoia@contrails.ufo), March 10, 1999.

Andy, you really make me laugh. You're so full of yourself. No, a meteorologist is not one of "those fools" on TV that tell you the weather. That's usually a broadcaster that the station doesn't know what else to do with.

####### WRONG dude or dudette, whoever youare hiding behind your tag line...

you are insulting the meteos on cnn and the bbc for example who are all trained meteorologists, many with phd's in the subject.

get your facts straight, maroon. #######

A meteorologist is a scientist. Has anyone asked the National Weather Service or any other similar scientific body who might be able to explain the behaviors of contrails?

####### oh yeah, let's all go ask an alphabet agency wassup???

grade 2 maroon, sorry, u didn't make the cut asshole :) #######

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), March 10, 1999.

####### WRONG dude or dudette, whoever youare hiding behind your tag line...

you are insulting the meteos on cnn and the bbc for example who are all trained meteorologists, many with phd's in the subject.

get your facts straight, maroon. #######

Now you're really making me laugh. You're the one who insulted them! I know some TV weathermen are meteorologists, but not most of them. And it does seem to me that a meteorologist would be one of the best sources for answers to your contrail questions.

Just so you know...yeah, I'm hiding behind troll names, because I'm sick of the insults, flames, and spams that result from identifying myself truthfully here. If you don't buy the doom&gloom scenario 100% you're not welcome here. All you doomers think you have open minds, but you don't--you have tunnel vision, you're seeing doom everywhere now.

-- many jerks here, that's why I am a (troll@doom.heaven), March 10, 1999.

You guys, this isn't a joke here. Towards the end of January, my 18 year old daughter drew my attention to a multitude of these trails in the sky above Wichita. There had to have been at least 8 to 10 of them, in a criss-cross pattern (similar to a game of "pick-up- sticks") I recalled thinking that I'd NEVER seen anything like it before for several reasons. First, each trail was of the same size as if they had occured simultaniously. In other words, none of them appeared "older" than the others. They were extremely high and yet, covered a heck of alot of real-estate! No jets were visible that I can recall. We thought nothing of it. Shortly after, my entire family took ill (all at once...highly unusual, 4 people) We're still trying to clear up the sinus infection of my daughter's which has been unresponsive to two rounds of antibiotics. We each experienced a "series" of different health problems together at the same time. Each "round" lasted a few days and then turned into something else. Fever, then vomiting, then diarrehea, next head-colds and upper-resperatory fianally strep throat and sinus problems. Hacking coughs that come and go. It's been quite common in the area we live in and I intend to do some further checking as none of this had connected with me until seeing this site! What we saw that afternoon, made those pictures look sissy! You folks that are making light of this need to spend more time outdoors and give the Internet a rest once in awhile! I've lived around Air Force bases all my life and never seen anything like that. I've spent years around major airports (Denver, Honolulu) and NEVER seen a series of inner-connected paths like that. It looked as if somebody had dropped an open box of toothpicks or something! If we hadn't seen it with our own eyes....I would have put this site on the same level with UFO sightings, but, no can do. This is for real. I read about our Armed Services loosing pilots over a refusal to recieve Anthrax vacines....but I'm wondering if they were refusing to continue with this project (whatever it is) instead? Just a thought.

-- been sick (and tired@home.net), March 10, 1999.

What if they're trying to vaccinate everyone without starting a panic?

Just a thought. . .

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), March 10, 1999.

Been sick & tired:

Man, now you got me worried, and I ain't, repeat am not a conspiracy buff.

Face it, scoffers, this is not ART that these jets are painting for our viewing pleasure. Also, you need a cloud to exist in order to seed it, and these trails are in perfectly blue skies.

Again, the set I saw this weekend had a trail of matter ejected from the main trail, so we're not talking simple exhaust here.

If it's making people sick, we need to know what the hell it is.

-- Lisa (oh@no.sh*%t), March 10, 1999.

Calling Ned Taylor!

How about it, Ned? Is it feasible to vaccinate against anything in this way? And don't a certain percentage of vaccinated people get a little sick from it?

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), March 10, 1999.

Hardliner --- If vaccination is the purpose, this is just another example of "daddy knows best" and is outrageous and contemptible. As if. As if tens of millions of Americans aren't adult enough to file quietly to doctor's offices and hospitals to be vaccinated against a still-potential threat. And that's overlooking the medical implausibility of mass vaccination.

Weather manipulation is equally despicable, unless our farmers are brought into the picture for their consent.

The simple fact is, "we know it's happening and we don't know why."

Consequently, American citizens are being subjected to spraying without their consent. That is the only fact we can establish.

And, as usual, our independent mainstream media are hot on the case. Not.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), March 10, 1999.

I recently quit posting, but continued to lurk and read. The only reason I'm posting now is because after reading the site Andy posted, for most of today, I'm astounded. My husband and I have both had flu-like symptoms for the last three weeks. We think we're over it and it comes back. My husband thought he had peumonia and called the doctor who was out that day. By the time the doctor was back he was better. The thing is, we are both very healthy. I never have a cold or flu even when others do. This is out of the ordinary, and I can't seem to shake it off.

Concerning contrails, we live close to an air base and have so many planes and helicopter going over all the time that we pay little attention to the numerous contrails or activity.

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), March 10, 1999.

BigDog,

I'll bet that you're "preaching to the choir" here about "Big Brother". We know they'd do whatever they decided was in their own interest. Consent? We both know the answer to that one.

I almost agree with your statement, but I'd modify it a little to read, We know something is happening, but we don't know what or why.

We should.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), March 10, 1999.

It seems to me, I read that livestock carries anthrax also. If this is true, wouldn't it seem likely that an overhead spraying campaign would kill two birds with one stone? (no pun intended) These EXACT same patterns have been photographed in the skies of England and Australia as well. The day we saw them, was a beautifully clear day without a cloud in sight.(so much for cloud seeding, as was previously mentioned....good point) Military exercises have suddenly been "beefed up" using the theory of "terrorist attack" and the term "chemical warfare" has been used so often, we have nearly become desensitized to the possibility. The site has several actual dates for different areas of the country. I would be grateful to those health care professionals, who lurk around this site, if they would locate dates of sightings for thier areas and consider the start of any unusually high numbers of illness related symptoms being addressed in each of those areas in relation to dates of known sightings. This could really be big people. Thanks to all

-- been sick (andtired@home.net), March 10, 1999.

Hello, Hardliner:

In answer to your question - there is already a nasal spray immunization against flu - and I don't know of any reason that immunization by inhalation against other diseases (especially respiratory illnesses) wouldn't be possible. And yes, people commonly become mildly ill from a number of different immunizations.

Here's a question you might be able to answer better than I - from the description, aren't these contrails very high - probably around 30,000 feet or higher? If so, wouldn't this be a very inefficient way to spread a biological or chemical agent? From that height it should take many hours or even days for an agent to filter down, and by the time it hit the ground it would be spread over five states. Even for the most virulent or toxic agents, that means a lot of agent.

For the record - I am very skeptical about this. They look like ordinary contrails to me.

-- Ned Taylor MD (entaylor@cloudnet.com), March 10, 1999.

Ned,

For the record, I too am skeptical that these contrails are anything ominous.

I have not seen any "for real", only the photos on the 'net. They look like ordinary contrails to me as well, with one proviso; the patterns. That is highly unusual, and suggests an attempt to "cover" a specified area of the surface, as do the reports of those who watched as they were formed. The consistency of the reports is hard to discount as regards the intentional formation of a "grid".

As for the altitude, that's anybody's guess. Some of the reports that I've read, indicate that the observer could see the aircraft well enough to identify it (at least insofar as "not" being such-and-such). 30,000 feet is going on six miles and I think it unlikely that very many could even see the aircraft, let alone ID it at that height. Also, the altitude at which a contrail will form is not a constant, but depends on a lot of atmospheric conditions.

One of the things that (most)jet aircraft are capable of is "dumping" fuel. That's just what it sounds like; they dump it out straight into the air. Now again, the altitude varies somewhat according to atmospheric conditions, but I'll guarantee you this, fuel dumped at 30,000 feet will never reach the ground as a discernible liquid. Usually the dump is done at a far lower altitude in order to achieve specified landing weight just prior to landing, and I can't ever recall the fuel reaching the ground as liquid (except in Viet Nam, the Boeing CH-46 helo on occasion did do this on purpose).

I have no clue as to the characteristics of chemical or biological agents, but it's hard to imagine them being less volatile than JP (jet fuel, which is essentially highly refined diesel oil)!

Winds aloft are almost never the same as surface winds, and as you point out, it is not likely that anything "sprayed" would come straight down. That, to my mind would seem to indicate that the occurrence over populated areas had some other purpose.

It seems to me too that if "they" were attempting to dispense a biological for whatever reason, they would need an awful lot of it and would need to be very aware of winds aloft in order to deliver it to the desired area. The altitude would have to be considerably less than 30,000 feet as well. But, lest we forget, our government once dosed a country pretty well with "Agent Orange" and probably learned a lot about delivery of such from aircraft. Most of the "Agent Orange" was dispensed from C-130s (as far as I know--the Air Force did it) at pretty low altitude.

"WildWeasel" suggested some time ago that it could conceivably be a search pattern. That seems to me to fit the facts, as does the stated purpose of experimenting with weather control. The government doesn't lie all the time, they have to keep us guessing!

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), March 10, 1999.

Let me inject two points about what I know about flight patterns and what I see in these photos.

First, we gotta realize that the FAA has begun a new air traffic routing system called "free flight". Aircraft don't fly the same old geographically defined air routes, but instead are using GPS to get "here to there" by the most direct routes. As a result, people are seeing contrails where they aren't used to seeing them and they aren't seeing the old "lanes of traffic" contrails. Today it looks more like the lake with a bunch of jet skis or snowmobiles running around.

The Maryland and Pennsylvania images show lots of traffic leaving the east coast heading west, plus the northeastern corridor traffic crossing all the east-west traffic. Very busy indeed, yet where I used to see and hear lots of traffic going in and out of the NYC metro, today there is practically none. That traffic all went somewhere and I'll wager that it's taking a more straight-line route to the west, instead of the old system's routes which said flights going from Washington, Baltimore, Philly, New York and Newark obviously had to fly over Cleveland and Chicago.

To me these aren't the "mystery contrails" which sparked people's contrail watching a few years back. Those were contrails which would show up on NOAA's satellite photos, appearing to orbit the planet one or more times during one satellite image scan. Of course those were "unspeakable, mystery things that went "Bah-boom" in the night.

Maybe I ought not speak further of such unspeakable things...

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), March 10, 1999.

Relax, people, it's only space aliens trying to communicate. Is it their fault that their language makes us sick?

Yesterday I felt fine. Last night we had a big windstorm, and today I still feel fine. I wonder what evil hidden agency is behind this?

Andy sees conspiracies in everything. I wonder if he checks the mirror every morning to see if he hasn't become someone else, who by definition can't be trusted?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 10, 1999.

Flint, do you have problems getting yourself dressed each morning? I must disagree with the "new routes" theory. I can't imagine the FAA allowing multiple crossings of paths simultaneously. As I stated before, these contrails had no one showing a time lapse from any of the others. This is pretty easily determined by observation. Let's face it. Y2k is by far the largest world-wide conspiracy in history. Why wouldn't any GI not suspect this curious observation as being anything different? Weather manipulation seems odd to be occuring on blue sky days as well. Factor in the multitude of reported health problems occuring within hours or days of these sightings, and people had better begin asking some tough questions someplace. Let's face it folks, if people were NEVER suspicious of anything, we'd all be singing, "BAA-BAA-BAAAAA, where's the grain?"

-- been sick (andtired@home.net), March 10, 1999.

been sick:

Skepticism is fine, so long as it can be satisfied. Once suspicion degenerates into mindless, around-the-bend paranoia, I can only laugh. Y2K isn't a conspiracy by even the most liberal definition -- it's nothing more than a shortsighted protocol reaching the end of its useful life.

There's always some illnesses going around everywhere. Associating them with the evil intent of abnormal contrail patterns is certainly imaginative. Have you considered contacting the National Enquirer?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 10, 1999.

Back to sleeeeeeeeeep Flint, you know it makes sense...

Plenty of time 'til rollover. Mein Kampf etc. ...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), March 11, 1999.

Just as a bye the bye, those of you folks that may take this all seriously (as I do...), take a look at past threads, take a look at several threads that address "the 25 rules of disinformation", then do a little research, quite difficult as we don't have a search engine yet - (do we Flint?), on the above subject - we have a fool that pontificates ad nauseam IN REPLY to other posts...

FLINT is not genuine, he never posts anything of import him/herself, he/it is a standing joke.

For god's sake don't reply Flint - enough belly-laffs already!!!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), March 11, 1999.

"Just so you know...yeah, I'm hiding behind troll names, because I'm sick of the insults, flames, and spams that result from identifying myself truthfully here. If you don't buy the doom&gloom scenario..."

blah blah blah...

stand up and be counted for once in your sorry life.

hey! it's pretty easy,you only have to change ISP's every now and then, par for the course...

!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), March 11, 1999.

There's contrails over Maryland and D.C. right now 3/11/1999 at 9:45am. They're crisscrossing and getting blown all over by the wind. Go take a look.

-- It's still flu season people (troll@hiding.place), March 11, 1999.

WildWeasel,

Your description of the eastern traffic patterns makes perfect sense to me. What most non-fliers probably don't give enough attention to is the fact that we're operating in three dimensions here. Both photos from the ground and from orbit are two dimensional images and cannot reveal whether or not the crossing contrails are at the same altitude. If you look at the satelite photo that I saw of some east coast contrails, you can easily see how they could be ordinary commercial traffic at multiple altitudes.

What throws me though, is the descriptions of two or more aircraft deliberately forming such a grid as the observer watched. That, I do not understand.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), March 11, 1999.

Art Bell has had William Thomas on his show twice recently, with a third appearance due sometime next week. Give these interviews a listen. Your hair will stand up & salute!

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), March 11, 1999.

On an anthrax side note to this thread, since it came up ...

Not even some of them trust their commanders, on issues of health and safety. ... 11 California Air Force Reserve pilots chose to quit rather than take the anthrax vaccine.

And other watchers DO think the contrails and anthrax are related.

Sometimes, I wonder too.

Diane

Vaccine refused by 23 aircraft carrier sailors

Thursday, March 11, 1999

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ article.cgi?file=/news/archive/1999/03/11/national0442EST0501.DTL

(03-11) 01:42 PST NORFOLK, Va. (AP) -- Twenty-three sailors aboard the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt have been demoted, fined and given extra duty for refusing to take mandatory anthrax vaccinations, according to the Navy.

The refusals are the latest headache for the Defense Department, which has encountered resistance as it seeks to inoculate all 2.4 million active duty and reserve military members by 2005.

The New York Times reported today that the Marines Corps has been particularly hard-hit, with more than two dozen Marines in Okinawa refusing the vaccine.

The vaccinations were ordered a year ago by Defense Secretary William Cohen for all military units sent to the Persian Gulf.

Initially, 38 Roosevelt sailors balked at the vaccinations, which began two weeks ago as the carrier prepared for a six-month deployment starting March 26. Some sailors later changed their minds, Navy officials said.

In the past year, 50 to 100 service members are known to have resisted inoculation. In February, 11 California Air Force Reserve pilots chose to quit rather than take the anthrax vaccine.

One of them, Airman 1st Class Jeffrey Bettendorf, 25, chose an ``other than honorable'' discharge to avoid a special court-martial. He said his research showed the vaccine is untested and unreliable.

The Navy confirmed the Roosevelt situation Wednesday following an inquiry by The Virginian-Pilot, which received an anonymous e-mail message from a sailor who said sailors were concerned about potential side effects.

``I was given nothing to explain what I was taking, so I did my own research and found disturbing reports,'' the sailor said. ``We are scared.''

Cmdr. Garry Rudolph, a Navy doctor who directs the occupational health and preventive medicine program at the Portsmouth Naval Medical Center, said the anthrax vaccine is safe.

Navy officials confirmed last year that a sailor on the destroyer USS John S. McCain developed a temporary paralysis after being vaccinated. Officials said the sailor fully recovered.

The Navy contends it has provided sailors with information about the vaccine, answered their questions and offered counseling to those who initially refused.

The holdouts on the Roosevelt were charged with disobeying an order and punished with a reduction in pay, fines, restriction to the ship and extra duty.

The Navy refused to identify any of those punished but said they may be given administrative discharges once the ship returns.

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), March 11, 1999.

As long as everyone is speculating, I'll throw in my .02 worth. Most of these sightings seem to be in the area of military bases and D.C. on clear blue sky days. Is it possible they are deliberate contrail cover to foil satellites? I know that radar and IR sats wouldn't pay no mind, but the visible light camera birds would be bothered. We aren't the only nation with eyes in the sky anymore, and maybe there's something on the ground the gov would just as soon not have seen from space.

Just a thought.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), March 11, 1999.

This sounds like another juicey conspiracy to me...CALL AGENTS MULDER AND SKULLY!!

But seriously, I've always been looking up at the sky and the clouds. I've seen contrails, but never in that seemingly deliberate grid pattern. I thought it was all baloney until i spied it myself in NW virginia a few weeks ago.

What are more rational explanations for these patterns? Increased gridlock at regional airports, forcing planes into holding patterns before they get cleared for landing? Maybe...and on given days the atmosphere would be in just the right condition to reveal these aerial holding patterns.

Weather modification by the Air Force? Possible...but not likely. Contrails condense into fluffier, thicker clouds and MIGHT cool the lower atmoshere by a degree or so. But I don't see how DRASTIC weather modification can remain a secret for long, given its profound implications for agriculture. Why keeep something so useful a secret?

Surveillance by some Government agency? Perhaps more likely. Maybe its aerial reconnaissance of traffic patterns, farmland, or possible marijuana crops (which glow really hot in the infrared). Maybe it's training for aerial reconnaissance for some future "peacekeeping" mission--ie, it might be useful to know if the Serbs are hiding a big gun under a grove of trees in the not-too-distant future.

Mass vaccination? I don't see how that could work. Protein antigens are labile to extreme conditions like temperature flux and UV light; and they would be so diffuse as to be in homeopathic concentrations when they hit the ground. What about "live bug" vaccinations that are attenuated? Again unlikely. They'd be overshadowed by the native microbial flora when they finally landed on some hypothetical surface. If I were an evil sinister vaccinator, I'd use a much different stategy like seeding water fountains or doorknobs or escalator railings. But I'm not. And if I were, I would be VERY STUPID because I would eventually get caught and hauled off to Congress where I'd be grilled like a steak, then tried for mass assault&battery in the federal courts and hung by the toenails.

So folks, I DON'T think that the criss crosses are random. They are clearly deliberate. But you need to convince me further before I can think that there is a truly wicked plot going on. Extraordinaray claims demand extraordinary evidence!

-- coprolith (Coprolith@rocketship.com), March 12, 1999.

"Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence."

There's another side to Sagan's dictum. For instance, "Extraordinary observations demand extraordinary inquiries." (I made this up.)

Charles Fort, in his The Book of the Damned: "We divide all intellection: the obviously preposterous and the established."

Pat Anders, in http://metalab.unc.edu/stayfree/7/fort.htm:

"Unless a new phenomenon slaps science in the face with its obviousness, it will never make the holy writ of the textbooks. Until the mid-1800s orthodox science held that meteors didn't exist. If a stone was seen to fall from the sky, its observer was mistaken. The astronomers reasoned: there are no stones in the sky. Therefore stones do not fall from the sky."

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), March 14, 1999.

I'm with Coprolith on this. Probably regular passenger jets who's contrails are viewed on specific weather conditions. Further, vaccines in small amounts are very expensive, just imagine the volume it would take to spray through contrails, and the cost.

As I mentioned on the other "contrail" thread, I saw several crisscrossing contrails yesterday (Sat. March 13) and it was the first time I noticed such patterns and so many. It looked much like those pictures on that Strangehaze site. I think it's because of all the contrail talk on this forum, and I just noticed for the first time (Red Pickup Truck Syndrome). It was a surprising sight all the same, and so I grabbed my husband's digital camera and took pictures.

I might send them to this guy at strangehaze@apexmail.com, he seems to be having so much fun with this ;-)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), March 14, 1999.