Just a quick note about what it's like to live in a city where the water makes you sick. I have lived in Milwaukee for the past 16 yrs and back in '93 when about half the population of Milwaukee (around 500,000 of us) became ill with the "cryptosporidium virus" I was one of them who felt the pain from that and I'm going to tell you what happened first hand here. (I'll keep it short for this list.) I remember starting to feel ill on a Friday--cold sweats, fever, diarrhea, etc.. I got the Sunday Milwaukee Journal and there was a story on the front page about a stomach flu going around and they recommended to drink lots of fluids..water, orange juice, etc... I figured that was what I had wrong with me so I drank more water. By Tuesday evening the truth came out. By that time, I was living on the toilet. The news anchors on TV were telling us "NOT" to drink the water, because that was what was making everyone ill. This was the first time I'd ever heard of a "Boil Advisory" for drinking water. The next thing you knew, everyone in the county of Milwaukee were rushing to the grocery stores hoarding up all of the bottled water. Long lines, chaos, stress, empty shelves, etc... You couldn't find bottled water in Milwaukee nor areas surrounding that part of WI. after about a day when the announcement was made. The worst part of it was that my best friend got sick from the water too and three years later he died. He was heteorsexual and didn't know that he was carrying the HIV virus at the time. The virus in the water pushed his HIV over the edge to full blown AIDS and that's how he found out about it in the first place. His doctor said he's been carrying it for about 15 yrs. But that's besides the point. As I've sat back and checked out this discussion board for the last 2 weeks, I've read a lot of good points about how to prepare for Y2K. "Prepare like it's a coming winter storm" is a common line. Bottom line from my chair is, "shouldn't we prepare like this...live our lives like this--although in a more limited matter--anyway?" We, as Americans, have grown so complacent through the generations. Remember the saying, "You put a frog in water and slowly heat it up..it stays there till it boils to death...(as opposed to)...throw a frog in hot water and it jumps out and lives?" Think about it.... I'm preparing for Y2K as if it's such a winter storm that man has never seen before, but I'm trying to be smart about it. The wisest man lives his life always looking a few cars in front of him on the freeway instead of always just focusing on the car right in front of him. You just might live longer that way if you apply the same to life. (My opinion only)

-- Robert L. Wade (SREKCAP98@aol.com), March 07, 1999

Answers

Very interesting, RW.

Maybe someone can verify this: I thought cryptosporidium was a bacteria not a virus. (I guess it makes no difference if you're "living on the toilet.")

-- rick blaine (y2kazoo@hotmail.com), March 07, 1999.

I believe Cryptosporidium is classed as a parasite, but I'm not sure. It's a minuscule oocyst. From State of VA Dept. of Health site:

http://www.vdh.state.va.us/owp/cryptoqa.htm

"Cryptosporidiosis in animals (e.g., cattle) and man is typically transmitted by the fecal-oral route and can be widely disseminated by water where drinking untreated or undertreated water occurs. The oral infectious dose for man is thought to be less than 10 oocysts, but further studies are needed to confirm this. Evidence for waterborne dissemination and infection can be found in several recent outbreaks, each potentially involving hundreds or thousands of persons: Thames River in England, Medford, Oregon, and Milwaukee, Wisconsin."

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 07, 1999.

oocysts?

object oriented cysts?

-- oo (oo@oo.oo), March 07, 1999.

State of Maine Dept. of Health:

http://www.state.me.us/dhs/eng/water/giarcryp.htm

"Giardia lamblia and Cryptosporidium parvum are protozoan parasites, infecting the digestive tract of man and other warm blooded animals. It has been demonstrated that semi-aquatic mammals can serve as a zoonotic host, transmitting the disease to humans who consume contaminated water. Domestic mammals (particularly ruminants) can serve as an infective host of Cryptosporidium, and, as in Giardia, the animal can contaminate a drinking water supply. Research has also shown that both Giardia and Cryptosporidium are highly resistant to chlorine, a commonly used water disinfectant. Due to the small size of Giardia cysts and Cryptosporidium oocysts (8 to 12 microns and 4 to 5 microns, respectively), both are difficult to remove through filtration.

It is currently believed that approximately 7% of the diarrheal cases in the United States are caused by Cryptosporidium. This figure may be misleading, as causes of diarrhea are seldom tested for by physicians. Cryptosporidiosis can be fatal to immuno-compromised patients. The current infectious dose (ID50) in healthy people is approximately 150 oocysts. The ID50 for immunocompromised people is believed to be approximately 35 to 50 oocysts."

CDC site for crypto:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/publications/brochures/cryptos.htm

Recommended treatment of water is boiling, according to the majority of emergency aid agencies. Regular bleach treatment does not kill these creatures. According to what I remember reading before (and I read tons!), anything in sufficient quantities to kill these protozoa will also harm the animal or human drinking it.

In addition, someone was making claims that an expensive product called aerobic oxygen could kill protozoa. I checked with many of the people who allegedly lent their names to testimonials about the product and ran into brick walls or surprise. One of the surprised ones is the Biology Chair at SMU, Dr. John Ubelaker. He e-mailed me:

"Good morning and thanks for the information. I did preliminary tests many years ago on an aquatic product that an individual was interested in determining if it could kill bacteria. Drops of the material were added to various cultures and it did kill the bacteria in several concentrations. It was less effective on the protozoa that could form cysts. I did the e xperiments without knowing the concentration nor the active ingredient. Using bleach and/or acetic acid killed the organisms as effectively. I would like to see the claim, could you send me an address. Thanks john ubelaker"

(Dr. Ubelaker was talking about bleach and acetic acid in concentrations too high for humans. Additionally, correspondence with the American Society of Micriobiologists brought forth negative opinions on the product.)

Some filters will filter out MOST of the nasty things. Read labels.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 07, 1999.

Just found this additional info at...http://www.oxytherapy.com/oxyfiles/oxy00120.html

City of Milwaukee to Ozonate its Public Water Supply

In November, the City of Milwaukee approved an 89 million dollar program to update the filtering system and to add ozone to both of the water treatment plants. The cost of updating water purification with ozone will be 51 million with an additional 38 million for a new filtration system. The Milwaukee Sentinel reported that ozone kills cryptosporidium, bacteria, fungus and viruses. The decision to approve the ozone disinfection project was widely approved in the local PWA community. The Milwaukee AIDS Project has advised its clients not to drink the city water for the past 2 and 1/2 years or any other public water supply. Nearly 100 MAP clients have died from Cryptosporidium since the outbreak. Cryptosporidium is a protozoan that causes diarrhea.

Source: Positive Health News - Report No. 7

-- Robert L. Wade (SREKCAP98@aol.com), March 07, 1999.

Robert,

I'm a Flatlander (from Il.) I remember the outbreak you speak of, I'm glad you're still around to tell the tale, and share your experience with others.

-- Deborah (info@wars.com), March 07, 1999.

See Berkefeld water filter. Of interest:

Absolute filtration efficiency to 0.5 microns (U.S.)

For particles 0.2 microns, efficiency is greater than 98%; from 0.3 to 0.5 microns, filtration efficiency is greater than 99%

Independently tested to remove the following parasites and pathogenic bacteria:

E. Coli >99.99%

Klebsiella >99.999%

Cholera >99.99%

Shigella >99.99%

Salmonella >99.999%

Giardia Lambia 100%

Live Cryptosporidium* 100%

*(University of Arizona-Sterling)

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), March 07, 1999.

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Tom, would you have any idea about the most cost effective way to purify 5000 gallons of water over a one year period?

-- Puddintame (dit@dot.com), March 07, 1999.

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Robert, very good posts. I remember reading about this outbreak in Milwaukee.

"The wisest man lives his life always looking a few cars in front of him on the freeway instead of always just focusing on the car right in front of him."

I'd say the wisest man/woman is always aware of cars in front, back and besides him...continuously scanning and aware of ALL the cars in a large radius, as well as other road hazards ;-) Even looking up...never know when a low flying object could come on top of ya ;-)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), March 07, 1999.

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blockquote tag off

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), March 07, 1999.

Chris, I love this: "Even looking up...never know when a low flying object could come on top of ya ;-) "

In my family we have had a similar farewell saying for years: Watch out for low-flyin' crazies!

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), March 07, 1999.

Any decent camping filter will take out cryptosporidium and giardia, State of Maine notwithstanding. Small as they are, the cysts are larger than your average bacteria. Now I'm talking about real filters that are rated for that sort of thing, not your cheap kitchen charcoal filters. Pur, Sweetwater, Katydyn, MSR, etc. Berkefield too, looks like. Crypto is as resistant to iodine as it is to bleach. Boil or serious filter, only way to go.

Katydyn's filter is good for 12,000 gallons. Berkefield uses a similar ceramic element so I imagine it's comparable.

-- Shimrod (shimrod@lycosmail.com), March 07, 1999.

Can anyone tell me why Katydyn can do 12000 gallons when just about every other filter says they max out at a couple hundred gallons?

I just bought a small filter that has a 2 micron filter. I believe that is the minimum pore size available and the same as the small Katydyn.

Mine says its good for 200 gallons (100+ cleanings). What does that mean?? Two gallons and it needs to be cleaned?

Is the physical size of the ceramic cartridge, or what, that gives the 12000 gallons, if that figure is real?

Me.

-- Floyd Baker (fbaker@wzrd.com), March 07, 1999.

I, too, live in Brew City. I, too, was hit by crypto. Had symptoms for 3 days before the news broke. I worked 2 miles from the water station which was ground zero.

Thought I was gonna die. Actually, death would have been preferable...

-- Steve Hartsman (hartsman@ticon.net), March 08, 1999.