The consensus is that foreign countries will have the worst Y2K problems. I typed up a list of countries and their exports but it proved to be far too long. So I cut out all the luxury items (Belgian chocolates, Scotch, perfume, coffee, etc.) and the obvious (oil, autos, etc.). Anybody have any idea what other essential items are likely to be in short supply? (I included electronics not because of automatic breakfast makers but because of, for instance, hospital devices.)

Brazil: shoes

Caribbean: spices

Chile: summer fruits and vegetables in winter

China: clothing, electronics, shoes

India: cotton fabric, spices

Italy: olive oil

Mexico: textiles, clothing, electronics, summer fruits and vegetables in winter

S. Africa: raw materials (such as?), coal, copper

S. America in general: summer fruit and vegetables in winter, copper

Sri Lanka: tea

Taiwan: electronics, steel

I'm ashamed of my ignorance. Can anybody add to this list? If so, please cut and paste the list and add your contributions as the thread lengthens. That way, we end up with a current master list at the end of the thread.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 02, 1999

Answers

Indonesia - rubber

Brazil - ball bearings (read an article somewhere that 75% of the worlds ball bearings are made there?)

Got tires?

-- Online2Much (ready_for_y2k@mindspring.com), March 02, 1999.

Click through to this Department of Commerce page that shows what the U.S. exports to and imports from its 80 largest trading partners.

-- Codejockey (Codejockey@geek.com), March 02, 1999.

In short, anything edible out of season, and you can't rely on 'made in America' labels either; a lot of that stuff is made from foreign parts and just assembled here. Some raw materials/ingredients, like bauxite (for aluminum) are imported from only one or two countries...

-- Karen Cook (browsercat@yerf.net), March 02, 1999.

Think chromium. Think DoD. Think health care industry. Think strategic resource. Think Russia and South Africa.

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), March 02, 1999.

Consider this:

http://www.nma.org/Imp ort%20Reliance.htm

With specific respect to chromium...

"Nixon ended arms embargo to South Africa - 1971 Byrd Amendment allowed U.S. to buy chromium from Ian Smith's white minority government in Rhodesia despite UN boycott - South Africa supported UNITA party in Angola because SWAPO (SW Africa People's Organization) used Angola as base for operations to win the independence of Namibia"

From:

http://ac.a cusd.edu/History/20th/nixon-detente.html

See also:

http://www.globind.com/gia/ 1632.htm

http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/Oxides/CHROMITE/CHROMITE.htm

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), March 02, 1999.

How about wool and wool products from Australasia? Beef from Costa Rica? Cotton from Mexico and Italy may not produce fiber, but the world's textile industry, with regards to spinning fiber, is now Italy. China and Mongolia provide 99% of the worlds raw cashmere. Can't remember, but Norway or Denmark provide the world's insulin and that is a BIG concern

Got jumpers (you yanks call them sweaters)??.

-- Taz (Tassie@aol.com), March 02, 1999.

Old Git - Coffee and chocolate may be luxuries, but they are excellent barter items for those GIs who recognize their potential unavailability next year! And they could go a long ways to promoting a sense of normalcy if problems develop.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), March 02, 1999.

Good Old Git; Good list! Coffee from Columbia is a legal addiction. North Americans will suffer severe withdrawal symptoms including terrible headaches for at least a week if they are deprived. Could make folks even more ugly and dangerous.

-- Finding (sspicer@nas.net), March 02, 1999.

I had coffee and chocolate in my first, L-O-N-G list, of course. I thought y'all would be like me--that's one of the first things we stocked up on. (I hasten to add we didn't OVERstock.) I was trying to get a list of the not so obvious items. Hell, me'n Sweetie have got a sensible amount of cheap champagne neatly stored--again, we haven't overdone it, no, not us, of course not, nah-ah, no siree. Let's just list not so obvious stuff, stuff there's ont really much of a substitute for. (Dandelion root can be roasted and ground for coffee, as can a certain form of chicory. But stock up prudently, don't let's hoard here [snort!].) I hope to put all these things in a final list and post it occasionally, remind ourselves and newbies what we might overlook and perhaps add new items. Many thanks for all sugestions, let's have more!

-- Prudent Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 02, 1999.

Doesn't the above bother you people? We are a service oriented nation, we have sent all of our manufacturing over seas (Levi Strauss is closing plants and putting 9,000 US Americans out of work). What could you possibly do to serve me during Y2K? Can you make shoes? Can you weave wool and make me a shirt? Can you grow a rubber tree or produce other synthetic material (without electricty), and give me a set of tires? Can you produce oil and refine it without electricity? And speaking of gold, the major source of gold comes from India, but what good is gold, I certainly can't eat it. Well you say, you can buy a pair of shoes with it. Yes, I can, but then what happens after all of my gold is gone? It's in someone else's pocket. We are consumers, we consume. Millions do not know how to manage their money, let alone know how to go two days without stopping at McDonalds or Burger King. I have been at this for a long time and I am sorry to say, many of you GI's are in Lala land. And this is not a flame, it is wake up and smell the roses. A few bags of rice and a few cases of beans is not the answer to your survival. I want to know what are your manual skills that will keep your community or your family alive?

-- Praytell (Praytell@tellme.com), March 02, 1999.

What about it Prudent Old Git, will you have my ideas on your list, or is it too much of a reality for you to handle? Many are just pissing in the wind.

-- Praytell (Praytell@tellme.com), March 03, 1999.

Praytell, the very point of this thread is to compile a list of imports we're probably going to have to do without and find substitutes for. For instance, I could actually spin the yarn and knit you a sweater. Or a hat, gloves, coat, skirt, dress, baby things, socks. If you can find someone to weave the fabric, I can cut and sew it for you. I can do fine embroidery for your special occasion items. And I can dye fabric from natural sources. I can make cheese and grind wheat. I can cook wild plants and make them taste superb. I can knit slippers, if not make boots. I can grow herbs and dry them. I can grow vegetables and fruits. I know how to save seed and grow new plants from cuttings. I could go on but this is self-serving enough.

My God, what sort of people do you think you're dealing with on this forum? Airheads? Sure, we joke about champagne and other silly things--a sense of humor and a sense of the absurd are among the most important items for people to grow and nurture. We realize all too well how tough things are going to be. You sound very angry, Praytell, and I think you've done a disservice to the good people who post on this forum. Perhaps you would feel less powerless if you were to begin a thread which would steer people to sites where they can learn how to manufacture some of their own goods. Perhaps you know how to do these things yourself. If so, your knowledge would be heartily welcomed.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 03, 1999.

Old Git: People are scared, they have no idea where their shoes, socks, underwear, blankets, coffee, tea, etc., come from, all they know is that they go to work get a paycheck, go to the store and purchase the item. Ask the average person on the street where a cup of hot chocolate comes from and they'll tell you "Nestles." This is reality, and if you want to jostle around and make fun and pretend, that's fine. But when you have someone calling you up and saying I only have 50 gallons of water stored for 6 people, it's time to tell them that's not enough! The fact of the matter is, there isn't going to be any luxury items, no cafe latte's, no Baskin Robbins, none of the things we will be dreaming about. What kind of people are we dealing with on this forum? Many different types of people. Some are hard core and they are flamed for bringing up the worse case scenario, then you have the "just got my Petromax, but I don't know how to use it." And "I don't know whether to buy gold or silver." I don't have to list all the threads that signify ignorance. Face it, we will become a lost society because the skills that it takes to keep this world a float are lost. The great craftsmen have disappeared (the blacksmiths, iron workers, etc.). I doubt if you know what it takes to shear sheep, spin the wool into thread and to knit a sweater. Or, to kill a cow, butcher it, part it out, tan the hide, and turn it into useful wares. Like I said, we're all pissing up a rope.

-- Praytell (Praytell@tellme.com), March 03, 1999.

I'm sorry you're so bitter and angry about life, Praytell. I really do think you would feel better if you would teach your survival skills to those who don't have any, or at least direct people to a source where they can learn them. If all you can do is misconstrue and criticize, then I'm afraid there's no point to any further conversation.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 03, 1999.

Codejockey, many thanks for the CoC site. I've been surfing there and it's contents are overwhelming. It will take a while to compile a list from the information but I'll get done as much as I can and be back with it at some point.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 03, 1999.

Old Git: Your remark is how most people react to "reality." They don't think things through and their only come back is to say that you are bitter or angry. Bittnerness and anger does not get you a cup of coffee, not does it aid to your survival. You do not even know me so how can you say that I am angry or bitter, you only want to pin that on me because you are so inadequate of your own survival mechanisms. Supplies only last until there is no more, then what? Please answer me that and I will leave you alone.

-- Praytell (Praytell@tellme.com), March 03, 1999.

Dear old Git ,

You forgot Cocaine from S.A

BTW I can Shear sheep :o)

-- Mike (mickle2@aol.com), March 03, 1999.

Mike: Are you a preacher? Preachers know how to sheer the sheeple.

-- Praytell (Praytell@tellme.com), March 03, 1999.

Got to put this project on hold--house being advertised this weekend, must prepare for droves of buyers (ha!). Here's what I found at the site re Australian exports to the US:

Aluminum ores, bovine products, autos and other vehicles, crude oil, ores and concentrates of base metals, aircraft and associated equipment, spacecraft and associated equipment, oil, alcoholic beverages, nickel, wool and other animal hair, parts and accessories for motor vehicles, iron and steel, meat, sugars, molasses, honey, radioactive and associated materials, apparel, textiles, measuring instruments, starches, inulin, gluten, albumin substitutes, glues, pearls and precious and semi-precious stones.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 03, 1999.

Praytell,

I'd like to jump in here in the middle of you discussion with Old Git.

I honestly don't mean this as a flame or sarcasim: where do you live? Not the exact location. But in a city?

I live in the country. Way in the country. I have neighbors andor friends within 10-15 miles of me who can and do do the following things for either a living or as avid hobyists: raise and butcher cows, hogs, sheep, goats and rabbits. blacksmiths, carpenters, welders, electricians, grow 99% of the food they eat in their garden, drill wells, preserve food, treat the sick, bury the dead, deliver babies, solemnize marriges, catch/clean/cook fish, build and repair all things mechanical, and we honest-to-goodness have one guy who even carved his own wooden leg (I know it's too funny, but it's true).

I just don't see the dearth of skills you see. I understand the stress if you think our society is without skills. Trust me it is not.

-- Greybear, who is trying to figure out what he does that has any value

- Got Tools?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), March 03, 1999.

Praytell = E. Coli

-- lkasga (alks;l@;aldf.laksdj), March 03, 1999.

Naa, I don't think Praytell is E.

Could it B..E. If it's you ol buddy... give us a sign.

I know, it's nunayo beesax.

BTW, in rereading my last post above I noticed that I blew the punctuation. It might appear that I'm saying someone near me raises and butchers ......blacksmiths. They don't :) I'm guilty of using colloquialisms - blacksmiths is a verb.

And besides the blacksmiths I know would be tough and stringy.

-- Greybear, who obvio,usly never. pass:ed punctuation; "class?

- Got Dictionaries?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), March 03, 1999.

Top 20 Imports from Austria (sorry for caps, got a bit tedious retyping everything so cut and pasted text):

INTERNAL COMBUST PISTON ENGS, AND PTS, N.E.S., MACHRY ETC SPECIALIZD FOR PARTICULR INDUSTRIES NES, GLASSWARE, MANUFACTURES OF BASE METAL, N.E.S., MEDICAMENTS (INCLUDING VETERINARY MEDICAMENTS), THERMIONIC, COLD CATHODE, PHOTOCATHODE VALVES ETC., MEDICINAL ETC PRODUCTS, EXCEPT MEDICAMENTS, ELECTRIC POWER MACHINERY, AND PARTS THEREOF, PAPER AND PAPERBOARD, BABY CARRIAGES, TOYS, GAMES AND SPORTING GOODS, TAPS, COCKS, VALVES & SIM APPLIANCES, ARMS AND AMMUNITION, PARTS AND ACCESSORIES OF MOTOR VEHICLES, ETC, MECHANICAL HANDLNG EQUIPMT, & PTS THEREOF, N.E.S., MEASURING/CHECKING/ANALYSING & CONTR INST&APPT NES, IRON & STEEL TUBES, PIPES & HOL PROFILES, FITTINGS, CIVIL ENGINEERING & CONTRACTORS' PLANT & EQUIPMENT, CARBOXYLIC ACIDS ETC HALIDES ETC & DERIVATIVES, ELECRICL APPARAT FOR SWITCHG OR PROTECTG ELEC CIRC.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 04, 1999.

Praytell,

I said i can shear sheep .. never have sheared a sheeple . :o)

-- Mike (mickle2@aol.com), March 04, 1999.

I watched the Senate press conference live the other day. 80% of medicine used here is said to come from overseas. 70% of insulin used here is said to be imported.

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), March 04, 1999.

Yup, Kevin, and I went right out and got a refill on my daily med. I intend to slowly stockpile from now on. I was going to anyway but that report has got me started a little earlier.

Will post more imports in a bit, let's digest this info a bit at a time--there's a LOT of it!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 04, 1999.

Belgium's Top 20 -

Pearls, precious/semi-precious stones, motor cars and oth motor vehicles, organo-inorganic & heterocyclic compounds, etc., medicinal etc products, except medicaments, oil (not crude) from petrol & bitum minerals etc, photographic and cinematographic supplies, automatic data process machs & units thereof, civil engineering & contractors' plant & equipment, road motor vehicles, N.E.S., silver, platinum & other platinum gruop metals, transmission shafts and cranks; bearing housings, etc, medicaments (including veterinary medicaments), textile & leather machinery & pts thereof N.E.S., pumps, air or other gas compressors and fans, electrical machinery and apparatuis, N.E.S., alloy steel flat-rolled products, floor coverings, etc., engs and motors, nonelect & pts, N.E.S.

Is it becoming obvious that with any sort of oil flow interruption, we are in very big trouble? If this is what we import from tiny Belgium, how about South Africa, other big exporters? I'll skip the smaller countries (I think we've seen enough to know they're important) and get to the really big/crucial ones.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 04, 1999.

Brazil - currency devalued by 45% in the last few weeks. US banks have about $5 bn invested down there. Let's see what we get from them:

Footwear, coffee and coffee substitutes, iron or steel primary forms & semifinish products, internal combust piston engs and pts, NES, parts & accessories of motor vehicles, etc., gold, nonmonetary excluding ores and concetrates), pig iron, speigeleisen etc. iron & steel powder etc, aurcraft & associated equipmt' spcecrft veh & pts, radio-broadcast receivrs wheth/nt incr snd rec etc, tobacco, umanufactured; tobacco refuse, pulp and waste paper, wood, simply worked and railway sleepers of wood, iron & nonalloy steel flat-roll prod, not clad etc, pumps, air or other gas compressors and fans, veneers, plywood, particle bd, oth worked wood NES, fruit/veg juice unfermented not incl added spirit, civil eng & contractors' plant & equip, rubber tires, inter treads, tire flaps & inn tubes, fruit, nuts (not inc oil nuts) fresh or dried.

China

Baby carriages, toys, games and sporting goods, footwear, women/girls coats, capes etc, tex fabric, not kint, telecommunications equip, NES and pts, NES, automatic data process machs & units thereof, parts etc for office mach & auto data process mach, radi broadcast receivrs wheth/nt incr snd rec etc, trunks, suitcases, vanity cases,briefcases, etc., arts of apparel of textile fabrics NES, articles NES of plastics, furniture & pts, bedding, mattresses, etc., misc manufactured arts, househld type elec & nonelec equipment, NES, lighting fixtures & fittings NES, electrical machinery and apparatus NES, men's or boy's coats, jackets etc, text not knit, sound recorders. TV recorders, recording media unr, elec power machinery and parts thereof, office machines.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 04, 1999.

Germany -

Motor cars & oth motor vehicles, machry etc specialzd for particular industries, medicaments *inc veterinary medicaments0, internal cobustion piston engs & pts, measuring/checking/analysing & contr inst&appt, parts & access of motor vehicles etc, organo-inorganc & heterocyclic compounds etc, engs & motors, nonelect & pts, electricl apparat for switchg or protectg elec circ, printing & bookbinding machinery & parts thereof, textile & leather machinery & pts thereof, thermionic, cold cathode, photocathode valves etc, nonelect machry, tools, app & pts, electro-diagnostic apparatus, elec machinery & apparatus, pumps, air or other gas compressors & fans, mach tools workgng by removing metal or oth materials, pumps for liquids; liquid elevators & pts.

Hong Kong

Arts of apparel of textile fabrics, thermionic, cold cathode, photocathode valves, etc, women/girls coats, capes etc, tex fabric, not knit, men's or boy's coats, jackets etc, text, ot knit, jewelry, goldsmiths' & silvesmiths' wares etc, women's or girls' coats, capes, etc, textile, knit, parts etc for office mach & auto data process mach, pritned matter, baby carriages, toys, games & sporting goods, pearls, precious & semiprecious stones, elec machinery & apapratus, watches & clocks, telecommunitcations equipment & pts, electric power machinery & pts thereof, elec power machinery & pts thereof, elec apparat for switchg or protectg elec cir, optical goods, men's or boys' coats, jackets etc., text, knitted, office machines, articles of plastics.

India

Pearls, precious & semiprecious stones, women/girls' coats, capes etc, tex fabric, not knit, jewelry, goldsmiths' & silversmiths' wares etc, arts of apparel of textile fabrics, made-up articles of textile materials, men's or boys' coats, jackets etc, text, not knit, floor coverings, etc, cotton fabrics, woven (not narrow or spec fabrics). men's or boys' coats, jackets, etc, txt, knitted, crude vegetable materials, fruit, nuts (not including oil nuts) fresh or dried, automatic data process machs & unites thereof, cristacean etc frsh, ch, fz, drd, salted, etc, household equip of base metal, manufactures of base metal, footwear, apparel & cl acc exc textile; headgear, all material, trunks, suitcases, vanity cases, briefcases etc, spices, woven fabrics of text mat not cotton or manmade.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 06, 1999.

Praytell,

Youre following the 25 rules of disinformation. Just post good links, rather than rant about what you know, and no one else does.

Just becuase people dont KNOW how to do something, doesnt mean they cant learn, by trial and error, especially when compelled to, or that nearby teachers arent all around them. Just ask. Libraries are in most towns too.

Old Git,

Not to downplay the excellent imports ID job you have here. What should we triage?

What are mission critical imports?

Diane

(P.S. ... I remember an old thread where some of this was discussed ... Hummn ...)

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), March 06, 1999.

Good question. I think that depends upon the individual and where he or she lives. One of the things I wanted to do with this stuff was to bring home to people just how much stuff we import into this country. I knew it was a lot but had no idea of the sheer volume until I looked at the site and saw I could include only a fraction of the big exporters. It's not just the odd Swedish or Japanese car or Chinese-made shirt, it's a bewildering, staggering array of goods. I saw "baby carriages" popping up a few times, something I never considered wasn't made here. If transportation is curtailed, baby carriages and strollers will become very hot items. I think there's more than enough in the thread now for people to get the idea.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), March 06, 1999.

FWIW. When I see "Old Git" anywhere, I stop to read what is written. I have derived so many helpful tips, and much valuable information from Old Git. Nothing from LaLa Land. The most basic and down to earth kind of help. I am so thankful for the posters like Old Git who take their valuable time to share with us. No, Praytell, I can't grow a rubber tree and create a tire; however, I can glean from the post that I should get an extra set of tires. And yes, I agree with Diane, that through trial and error I can learn many forgotten or somewhat neglected skills. I can't learn all the skills in time, but I can acquire basic tools needed for the most critical survival skills. I can relocate to an area similar to Greybear and start seeking out people with needed skills that I can barter with in the future. Greybear, what is the real estate like in your neighborhood? LOL

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), July 03, 1999.

Thanks, Mumsie! I wish I could post some more stuff but my time is so short at the moment. The house is off the market and we have eight months worth of chores to catch up on. Now that overseas Y2K problems seem a good possibility (if not probability), this thread has become quite important--thanks for digging it up!

I'll make an extra special effort when the Prep Forum starts. Heaven knows I need useful info as much as anyone else and I may as well post it when I find it!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), July 03, 1999.

Let's face it. The world has been our oyster for the past 50 years. We import almost everything we need.

-- Mr. Adequate (mr@adequate.com), July 03, 1999.