I've really appreciated the help both on the pressure canner and the dehydrator threads. Now. TVP. Yes. Textured vegetable protein.

Keep in mind, I'm a believer in Woody Allen's Sleeper hypothesis: a hundred years from now we will discover that everything they THOUGHT was bad for us was really good. This doesn't bode well for TVP.

Yet, in the name of science and surviving TEOTWAWKI, we are experimenting with 1 pound of TVP. How can we prepare it so we go yummy, yummy? Let me be more specific: how can we cook it so anyone from my 21-year old son down five pups to my 3-year old son will actually eat it?

The best entry will win some sort of prize (say, we'll send you TWO pounds of TVP)?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), February 26, 1999

Answers

From everything I've read, trying to switch to vegetable protein diet from animal one, TVP is best used when added to other things...casseroles for example. I think TVP is the main ingredient of the frozen soy "meat" product I use instead of ground meat. Seems that seasoning and what you add it to is everything. Like tofu, these foods take on the taste of whatever they are combined with. I'll look up some of my old references and let you know if I come across any tasty sounding recipes. I'm going to have to get some myself. Have also researched making my own tofu from soybeans,...daunting, the process a long and laborious one.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), February 26, 1999.

Donna is right. Seasoning is everything. The other thing that helps a lot is to saute the TVP in a little oil after letting it soak for 10 minutes in very hot water(and SEASONINGS). Drain the excess moisture and then fry it up! Now add it to whatever else you've got on hand--rice, millet, barley, wheat berries, pasta, vegetables.

--Got oil? (sesame oil is delish)

-- Sarah (smondol1@powerweb.net), February 26, 1999.

In the 70's a good recipe book by Barbara G. Salsbury told you how to use dehydrated foods & TVP "Just Add Water". It is still available from Amazon...We ate TVP in the 70's mixed with other meat or casseroles, and it wasn't bad.

-- Joyce (kcklein@flash.net), February 26, 1999.

Here's a link to the Salsbury book Just Add Water. Gonna get one for myself.

Just Add Water

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), February 26, 1999.

Sarah -- hmm, love sesame oil. I'm thinking maybe some kind of ersatz Chinese dish ..... am I right that TVP IS a whole protein or does it grow in, uh, potency, if combined with something else? Also, does anyone know how much makes up a good-sized protein-rich serving?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), February 26, 1999.

Just a note 'bout textured vegetable protein. If your bod ain't used to it, and y'all are going to be trying it out in an enclosed space with lotsa friends 'n relatives squeezed tight -- uh, better have a "bean out" escape spot, separate with ventilation. Nuff said

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska, vegetarians (allaha@earthlink.net), February 26, 1999.

There is a book called TVP Cookbook by Dorothy R. Bates...have tried alot of these recipes over the years and they aren't half bad....steak they're not but will do. Unfortunately could never convince my kids that they were a good change from burgers. Guess it all depends on how hungry a person really is.Isn't it funny how we all use the phrase "starving to death" when our last meal was probably only a few hrs. ago. We may find out what millions of unfortunate people in other countries know about starving for real. I digress.... TVP does seem to store forever and bugs don't like it either. If you search the web for veggie recipes you will pull up alot of sites with TVP,beans,rice,tofu,etc. recipes.

-- MUTTI (windance @train.missouri.org), February 26, 1999.

Mutti back again....best veggie recipe source is http://www.vegscource.com/recipes/ Anyhow,useful even if you aren't a vegetarian....looks of ideas for using all your garden produce.

-- MUTTI (windance @train.missouri.org), February 26, 1999.

Big Dog,

When you come through Wilmington, plan on eating a meal at my house.

I make a killer chili with TVP. My wife can give you a variety of ways to use it.

(The Azalea Festival is April 8 - 11)

~C~

-- Critt Jarvis (critt@criit.com), February 26, 1999.

TVP is great in Bolgnaise sauce. Adding a teaspoonful of yeast extract (Marmite) will also make it taste more meaty.

-- (someone@somewhere.com), February 26, 1999.

Critt -- Just now getting ready to schedule that trip anyway, so you're on, let your wife know. I'll get in touch.

Someone -- Mrs. Big Dog used to eat marmite regularly when she lived in England. I never thought of that or the usefulness of marmite in general for Y2K.

Gee, which one to try? They all sound so yucky, I mean yummy.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), February 26, 1999.

I found an interesting site that offers a different type of "tvp"--they say it doesn't cause those--uh--little *problems* Leska mentioned. :>) They also state that "traditional" tvp is kind of hard on the digestive system. Anyway, their meals actually look pretty good. I haven't tried them yet, but am planning too.

Winter in Minnesota is just way too loooong to be trapped in a house full of people with little *problems*. :>)

http://www.soybean.com/ soybean/cat1.htm

-- Scarlett (ohara@tara.net), February 26, 1999.

Do a web seach under the words "soy", "phytates" and "harmful"... what you read may steer you clear of ANY soy products, as it did me.

-- scooter (TVP?none@home.here), February 26, 1999.

Hey, scooter, pls don't make me work so hard. I am bone tired. Just spit it out ..... I don't mean the TVP, your opinion.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), February 26, 1999.

I eat a fair bit of TVP myself. It's best added to meat, and not as a meat substitute, in my opinion. I started off with 50/50 meat and TVP. They do have 2 kinds that I'm aware of: larger meat like chunks, and the smaller granules.

They taste better and have a better texture if added to the meat after it's not pink (fully cooked), but before you drain off the fat. Add a little water to rehydrate it faster, and let it cook for a few mins.

I have made a good chilli with it that used no meat, but my wife prefers it 50/50. Purely psychological, as it's hard to tell the difference once the TVP has cooked for awhile.

To the best of my knowledge, the TVP makes one have gas because it is a very alkaline food, and a high body PH generates gas. I have a problem with ph imbalances anyways, and take supplemental acid tabs with meals. I just increase the dose a bit when I eat soy products.

-- Bill (billclo@hotmail.com), February 26, 1999.

A while back, we made a field trip to Bob's Red Mill. They have everything under the sun & more. Seeing that we were Y2Kers bedazzled at their sheer abundance, they gave us little handfuls of various beans to take home 'n cook 'n try. We enthusiastically set out + cooked them, sampled each to compare. Plus, at another store there was a large sale of canned veggie chili with textured vegetable protein 'n beans, natch. We bought a can to test, and cooked it at same time as bean test fest. Gotta experiment with these mixtures, we figured.

So then, bellies full, waddled happily to our puters to Forum potato. But before we could connect, the phone rang. Brrrinng, help, sick call, can Ashton run to do a night shift fill-in? Ppplllleasse? Groan, OK. Hang-up. Phone. Brrrinng, Ashton & Leska, quick, meet us and ride to Silverton for the Y2K Task Force Meeting. What, are you kidding, it's already dark and late-ish and that's a llooonnnngg drive, it's freeezing & pouring rain and Ashton has to work unexpectedly.
But you have to go! So-and-so and such-and-such will be there and we can't lose this opportunity. Oh alright, I'll be right over. Hang up. Uh-oh.

Bumpy drive, long drive, I'm gonna die drive, they'll prolly die too drive, great way to make new friends fast, NOT, drive. Not forgettin that drive anytime soon.

If you're gonna test dem beans 'n chili with tvp, better take your phone off the hook the rest of the day ;-( Or caulk it up to another Y2K diseruption.

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), February 26, 1999.

Ashton & Leska --- I dread becoming a troll on my own thread, but perhaps TVP could become a vital component in an alternative energy program. You know, first you eat, then you self-power up the gas stove, gas dryer, gas ... well you get the idea.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), February 26, 1999.

Yes, BD, and you could get a humongas grant for that! Wasn't there $$ Millions spent on researching the effects of bovine methane energy accumulation? A flat you lents tax could go far t owards your provocative ideass. Funnel that energy constrictively.

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), February 27, 1999.

Bravo !

-- abc (x@y.z), February 27, 1999.

BigDog: Poor baby, my heart bleeds for you... here's a few on a platter:

Avoid Soy

someare@so.lazy), February 27, 1999.

If you've never seen what all goes into animal feed, and how it's processed, and how foul everything concerning meat processing is, you've missed a lot. It literally makes me sick.

I've used TVP off and on for years and like it fine. My only objection is that now all soybeans are genetically altered which doesn't bode well for the small farmers.

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), February 27, 1999.

Gilda Jesse:

To the best of my knowledge, only about 40% of the soybean crop is genetically altered. If you get non-hybrid varieties from a reputable seed company (not the big mega corps, but smaller seed- saving companies), you'll be able to get the non-engineered kind.

-- Bill (billclo@hotmail.com), February 27, 1999.

Hi BigDog,

Sweetie is a part-time vegetarian and I'm a full-time one. We've been eating meat analogs for about eight or ten years now. Some TVP is good, some not. The best source I've found is Lumen Foods, in Lake Charles, LA. (Soybean.com or soybeanS.com.) They also have a new line of Y2K complete dinners in 5-gall pails--good price and last for years. Their regular line of meat look-alikes is pretty good, especially the beef filet and chicken. I like the jerky too. A mixed sample box is available for about $20. You can also find great bargains in "fines," misshapen and small pieces. The Lumen site is a veritable fount of information on soy meat substitutes. They also sell rice, beans, etc., in bulk, in sealed buckets. I last ordered about 7 weeks ago and the order came in three weeks. The site will tell you what the current wait is.

If anyone has non-genetically-modified soybeans, it's these folks. However, according to some reports on the recent GM conference in Colombia, the US soybean crop consists of 80% genetically-modified beans, corn is about 60%. An Electronic Telegraph report says 25 million acres in the US are planted with GM crops. There's an enormous controversy currently raging in the UK over GM foods. Here's a BBC report on the Colombia conference:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/newsid%5F284000/284569.stm

Wednesday, February 24, 1999 Published at 11:31 GMT

GM food talks fail

"No genetic contamination" reads the protesters' posters

The 170 nations at the UN Biodiversity Convention in Colombia have failed to agree on international rules for the safe trade in genetically-modified (GM) food.

The final round of talks began at 0900 GMT on Wednesday with delegates deciding to "postpone" the adoption of an agreement to protect biodiversity.

The talks could not resolve disagreements between countries which produce genetically altered foods and the rest of the world.

Their aim had been a legally-binding protocol on reducing the risks of cross-border movement of GM organisms.

The meeting, in the city of Cartagena, involved delegates from the countries which have signed the UN Convention on Biological Diversity.

US accused

The United States had been accused of trying to wreck the talks. It has not ratified the convention but was in Cartagena as an observer.

But it has used that restricted status to orchestrate a refusal to allow the meeting to include commodities like soya beans and corn in the negotiations. The two crops make up 90% of the world trade in GM organisms.

If the commodities were included, it would mean labelling them in international trade. That could mean they were boycotted.

The failure to reach agreement means there is no global agreement that a country has the right to refuse to allow the import of GM organisms. If individual states do refuse, they will be liable to challenge at the World Trade Organisation.

Greenpeace accuses the Americans of threatening biodiversity in the name of profit.

Greenpeace's political adviser, Louise Gale, said: "The US has attempted to terminate the Biosafety Protocol".

"It seems that the US, driven by the commercial interests of companies such as Monsanto, is willing to threaten the world's biodiversity and forego any international safeguards on the trade in GMOs."

Britain criticised

The US observers did have the support of five delegations, most of them from major grain exporting countries - Canada, Argentina, Australia, Chile and Uruguay.

The British delegation is also accused of giving support to the Americans after it helped to draw up a set of proposals which favour their position.

Dr Doug Parr, of Greenpeace UK, said that failed talks would mean that millions more consumers would be denied a choice about what they eat and a majority of the world's national governments would be powerless to enforce this basic individual right.

He also criticised the UK Government's policy on GMOs.

"Whilst they make promises to the UK public about labelling, no UK minister is present at international negotiations to ensure that it can actually happen".

Prince Charles has entered the fray and is against GM foods. His website now features a forum on the subject. The BBC site, above, includes s a search engine which, if the box is filled with "genetically-modified" and "News" is chosen, brings up scores of discussions on the subject.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 27, 1999.

Prince Charles has a web site? ..... oy.....

-- karen (karen@karen.karen), May 23, 1999.

Yes! Marmite and chip sandwich, lite toast yumm. TVP is a natural with Curry and rice. You can make it hot or mild.

-- && (&&@&&.&), May 23, 1999.

Party-pooper perspectives on soy and TVP --

http://www.mercola.com/newpage11.htm

Soy it isn't so

http://www.vegan-straight-edge.org.uk/soyfood.htm

Sometimes it seems the information revolution is making it harder to eat well, not easier...

How to interpret? A happy medium seems best, make sure most of yr diet is healthy and unprocessed, enjoy, so it won't matter so much if you don't get it perfect. Although, at times it seems a person can't put anything in their mouth any more! (Ummmm.... might not be such a problem for me, spewing nonstop verbal diarrhea as I am lately!!! Now of course I'd like to undo some of my more lamentable verbiage on this board - but to do so just takes more verbiage, y'see, so it's just not gonna be possible... and furthermore, blah, blah, blah, yak yak yak......,)

-- Debbie (dbspence@usa.net), May 23, 1999.

Two sides to every story.

I believe I have mentioned before that without genetics in ag, we have reached the potential of available land and techology to increase yields to keep up with the world population. Less than 2% of the US population is engaged in ag production, yet is able to feed the US as well as create a positive element to the international trade balance US ag is one of the most productive sectors of the economy.

Notice the last sentence of the article excerpt: ``We're getting five times the yield now than we did in the 40s.'' It is apparent from what I have read from various sources that without genetics, we cannot feed the current population of the world. IMHO, to step back in time to 1/5 the productivity is unrealistic from a world perspective.

http://www.cfbf.com/archive/aa-0407a.htm

..."Known among the research community as one of the world's foremost geneticists and plant breeders, Rick has been instrumental for many of the traits that are in tomatoes grown today, California Tomato Commission President Ed Beckman said.

Rick's seed-finding expeditions have included more than a dozen trips throughout South America. The travel has been far from a Club Med-type environment. With his trademark cloth fisherman's hat firmly in place, Rick has scoured canyons, seashores, the high Andes, Galapagos Islands and desert regions, all in the search for wild tomatoes. His adventurous travel in the name of science has often drawn comparisons of his being a cross between Charles Darwin and Indiana Jones. Rick said his trips have been productive but not as pulse-pounding as the fictional series.

``Generally the local people are very helpful,'' he said. ``We haven't really had to face the terror situations that Indiana Jones did in his famous films. I think it's very amusing that they would even connect me with a character like that.''

Rick's wild tomato-seed collection is unmatched in the world. It includes about 4,000 tomato lines, including more than 1,000 wild varieties and 1,000 genetic mutant stocks. His work goes beyond collecting the genetic puzzle pieces. Cataloging, maintenance and distribution are unheralded, critical parts of his work. Studying these lines has helped identify more than 40 disease resistances, of which about half have been bred into commercial varieties.

Since mid-century, there's been tremendous improvement. For example, with processing tomatoes in California, their yield per unit area has increased by a factor of five, he said. ``We're getting five times the yield now than we did in the 40s.'' His work has not gone unnoticed in the industry. "

-- marsh (siskfarm@snowcrest.net), May 23, 1999.

Marsh, you said, "It is apparent from what I have read from various sources that without genetics, we cannot feed the current population of the world. IMHO, to step back in time to 1/5 the productivity is unrealistic from a world perspective."

I agree, PROVIDING the genetic modification is limited to characteristics of strength, increased yield, that sort of thing. But the latest tinkering involves adding, e.g., resistance to RoundUp so that fields can be saturated with the stuff and only the GM/GE crop survives. These crops, e.g., corn, can pollinate wild relations (e.g., weeds) and produce superweeds, resistant to herbicides. In addition, there are early indications now that those GM/GE foods created with Bt in their systems are causing deaths in Monarch butterflies.

If there's a looming problem with feeding people, let's distribute prophylactics and birth control pills instead of questionable plants, give ourselves time for adequate testing before we go full steam ahead.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 23, 1999.

OG - I, personally, concurr with your concern on "terminator seed" technology, genetic pesticide resistance and the monopolistic copyrighting of seed. I have my own collection of non-hybrid, heritage seed for y2k, but I am not a commercial grower who supplies market shelves for our population.

I urge you and others to make the distinction between this and the type of genetics that increases yield and common desease resistance in your general arguments. The "public" is apt to paint all genetic modification and hybridization with a broad black brush. This could be problematic if political pressure moved to ban all hybridization/ genetic modification in US farming.

BTW, did you know that the pendulum swings the other way, as well? Commercial sunflowers can no longer be grown in portions of the central valley of California because home garden seed "pollutes" the commercial crop, affecting uniform quality and yield. The seed buyers began to move up to our area to encourage experimental production where the crops could be isolated.

-- marsh (siskfarm@snowcrest.net), May 23, 1999.

I grew up on TVP, and didn't know any better. I got used to burping fake bacon for two days after I ate it.

Hey, it's food. It works. It needs salt and pepper or gravy or ketchup.

We're all probably going to mix it with squirrel anyway!

-- Doug (douglasjohnson@prodigy.net), May 23, 1999.

Here in Australia we have a large 7th.Day Adventist company called Sanitarium. They sell TVP in the supermarkets, and have a nutritional education service. By phone they said that one cause of flatulence when preparing SOY BEANS is undercooking. ANOTHER is not rinsing them after soaking. It seems that soaking draws out indegestable carbohydrates. You need to THROW AWAY THE SOAK WATER AND RINSE THE SOY BEANS. The same is true for TVP. Let me quote from their educational brocure on TVP. "To prepare TVP mince simply soak 1 cup of TVP in 1 cup of hot water for 15 minutes. DRAIN AND RINSE WELL with plenty of water (THIS REDUCES THE POSSIBILITY OF FLATULANCE.)

-- Tony Power (power@mail.austasia.net), May 24, 1999.

Please don't throw away your soaking water, it contains all sorts of nutrients. Instead, locate some epazote seed, grow your own "Beano" (anti-flatulence pill). IT WORKS!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), May 24, 1999.