Will cars work @ y2k?

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In Julian Gregori's book, "WHAT WILL BECOME OF US, Counting Down To Y2k," is the comment that GM leaders say their cars won't work @ y2k. Is this so? Are there some years with real-time dependent chips? Knowing will help me prepare better.

-- Bob Webster (webfam@srv.net), February 03, 1999

Answers

I've been reading everything that I can get my hands on about Y2K for the past 8 months. I have not focused on automobiles but in that time I have only seen one report of an acknowledged Y2K bug in a 'consumer'-level vehicle - that was in English mtorcycle called a Farley. Don't remember where I read it.

My take is that the vast majority of consumer vehicles will operate just fine. A few may not but, to the best of my knowledge, the problem here is not large. There are concerns however, with larger, more sophisticated commercial vehicles - e.g. a report a few months back found firetrucks with ladders that would not raise after rollover.

I am much more concerned with the production and delivery of the fuel all vehicles need to operate than I am with the autos themselves. And at least some of the plants where these vehicles are produced have significant Y2K problems (GM for example).

Contact your dealer for specific information on your particular vehicle. This might be a brick wall -- but the only 'letter of recall' I've seen for a vehicle was a hoax (Cadillac was the victim of this last week).

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), February 03, 1999.


Year 2000 Certain GM information systems have potential operational problems in connection with applications that contain a date and/or use a date in a comparative manner as the date transitions into the Year 2000. GM has a comprehensive worldwide program to identify and remediate potential problems related to the Year 2000 in its information systems, infrastructure, and production and manufacturing facilities. In addition, GM has initiated formal communications with all of its significant external interfaces to determine the extent to which GM is vulnerable to third parties' failures to remediate their own potential problems related to the Year 2000. The inability of GM or significant external interfaces of GM to adequately address Year 2000 issues could cause disruption of GM's business operations.

Many of GM's systems are Year 2000 compliant, or have been scheduled for replacement in GM's ongoing systems plans. GM has incurred and expensed approximately $40 million during the year ended December 31, 1997 related to the assessment of, and preliminary efforts in connection with, its Year 2000 program and remediation plan. Future spending for software modifications and testing required for Year 2000 are currently estimated to be approximately $360 million to $500 million with the majority expected to be incurred in 1998. GM's target date for completing its Year 2000 modifications is December 31, 1998 with additional testing and refinements to identified systems planned for 1999.

http://www.gm.com/about/investor/1997/management/management2.html

It is most assuredly that they are talking about plant operations here with no specific references to the compliance of the on-board vehicle computers. There has been no significant evidence or information released concerning car compliance in reference to GM cars that I know of. I'd appreciate any references, if there are any.

-- Mr_Kennedy (y2kPCfixes@motivatedseller.com), February 03, 1999.


You are more likely to have trouble getting enough gas to run the car than you are to have trouble getting it to start because of embedded chips. I cannot understand why a chip would care what day it is. Would it not reset everytime the battery was disconnected for service?

Where are ya Elbow? Contribute something positive here will ya? ;)

Now would be a good time to own a 68 Beetle, not because of chips, but because of economy and reliability.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), February 03, 1999.


There is a prize if you can prove a car will not work in 2000.

Unc D is precisely correct - remember 1973???

Probably not.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), February 03, 1999.


Introduce me to a technician/mechanic who has figured out how to reset a date on a car and THEN I'll believe that there are date sensitive chips in cars.

CR

-- Chuck, night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 03, 1999.



My test and scan equipment is updated thru '98 and I have not found a settable date nor any date function. All memory USED to wipe with a disconnected battery, but NOT ANYMORE. The new OBDII systems will retain memory after a battery disconnect. That concerns me.

OBDII is federally mandated and runs in ALL new vehicles sold in US since 1996.

Problems? I can't say either way. Someone wants to chip in a 3-4 bills for a new PCM and I'll take it apart and look for RTC's and such?

-- Art Welling (artw@lancnews.infi.net), February 03, 1999.


Deedah,

You rang? :-)

I'm not an automotive expert - - - my brother is. :-) His view is that he has replaced many computer modules in various cars, and has never had to set a date. His electronic diagnostic tools have never displayed any dates, and none of his repair manuals refer specifically to setting any dates. He has told me that it is possible to run an engine with the computer module disconnected altogether.

That said, however, there are still some cracks in the picture. If the self-diagnostics of some vehicles detect an error, they will "lock in" the error code in an internal register until the problem is corrected, and the register is cleared by a diagnostic tool. This procedure *could* be a "general reset" command to the module which could set the clock to some hard wired startup date. It is possible that some of the (bad) modules he had to replace *had already reached their individual Y2K boundary and died.* There is also the possibility that modules (hypothetically) containing date logic could have batteries to maintain an RTC while disconnected from the car battery.

Bear in mind that *all* the above failure mode scenarios are speculative. I have surfed the major car manufacturers for info on this subject without success. Based on my brother's experience, and some anecdotal comments I have read by guys claiming expertise, the chances of a failure which would incapacitate an engine at the calendar boundary appear extremely remote.

-- Elbow Grease (Elbow_Grease@AutoShop.com), February 03, 1999.


Hey folks, don't forget spare parts (especially those foreign models)! When I have my rustbucket serviced next fall, I will be instructing my mechanic to fix/replace whatever needs to be done to try to get me through at least the next year.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), February 03, 1999.

Bob

I remember several weeks ago, running across an article re: cars, embedded chips, and y2k.......for the life of me I can't seem to locate it at the moment.....however, will keep looking and if I find it will pass it along........until then, I can only suggest that you contact your local dealer and see if you can get any info......it seems to me, that the article I'm trying to locate, talked about chips in things like braking systems, fuel systems, and of course the automatic door locks, key alarms, etc.......please don't quote me on any of these, as I can't be totally certain.......will keep looking !!!!

Sandy

-- Paul & Sandy Stambaugh (patches96@worldnet.att.net), February 03, 1999.


If the GMC, Ford, and Chrysler have not yet made very clear statements about the compliance of each and every model for each year then I would be very suspect.

My opinion, based on zero facts, is that each of them have some models that are not compliant and they are trying to buy time.

I also believe that if Ford, say, had all models compliant they would be screaming about it from the rooftops.

-- Tomcat (tomcat@tampabay.rr.com), February 03, 1999.



Based on "forced reset" procedures outlined in a Ford service manual, it's cheap insurance to put together the materials and to perform the task over next New Year's.

Go to Radio Shack, get some alligator clips, some 18 gauge wire, and a package of one ohm, ten watt resistors. For each vehicle, make one jumper wire with a clip on each end and one of the resistors soldered in-line with the wire.

Sometime on New Year's Eve, open the hood of your car and disconnect the battery, taking care to remove both battery cables. Clip the battery cables togeter using the jumper wire. Leave in place twenty- four hours and then reconnect the battery, hot cable first.

The jumper wire/resistor combination will cause any internal power source for the engine management computer to drain and allow the memory and clocks to zero-out. Reconnecting the car's battery will restart everything from the microprocessor's hard-coded, default date.

This type of procedure is used iin cases where an auto is having computer problems (say, passing an emissions test) that do not show up as a consistent problem. If this works a repair shop doesn't have to beat-up the customer for a new computer, just beat them badly for performing "magic" and saving the old computer.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), February 03, 1999.


Stock up on spare parts, that is, air filters, belts, and whatever will wear out sooner than you wish.

-dinosaur

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), February 06, 1999.


Here's a quote from Newsbytes on August 21, 1998:

"Year 2000 - Is The Party Over?"

http://www.newsbytes.com/pubNews/116875.html

[begin snip]

A recent report discussed how the engineers testing the AMC Eagle found that the main processing unit, which controlled the car's ignition, power steering, fuel injection and drive train, failed during Y2K testing. The processing unit did not fail due to date calculations, but because the advent of 2000 caused a data buffer to overflow, thereby making the embedded processor fail.

[end snip]

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), February 07, 1999.


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