We have been storing tap water in clean plastic milk containers as well as 2-litre pop bottles. The town's water in our area is definitely "hard", it contains large amounts of minerals.

Will such water be drinkable a year from now if we boil it first? (We have a wood burning cook stove.)

I know it's a dumb-sounding question, but it's a low-cost alternative to buying *huge* amounts of distilled water.

-- Delete (del@dos.com), February 01, 1999

Answers

You asked a totally reasonable question! Plastic milk bottles are bio-degradable so watch them for leaking. You can boil the water or add 4 drops of bleach per gallon. Either way, water that's been sitting around for a year will not be "spring fresh" tasting but it won't kill you either.

-- Kim (dalton@yvn.com), February 01, 1999.

Hi Delete

Your message reminds me of a saying my grandmother used to say, "It would be a lot harder without any!" Is there a water testing place near you maybe they could give you expert advice - hopefully for free?

Our village water is treated and ok right now. I will store mid of this year - right now I am collecting containers. Here is an alternative to a water supply that I purchased and is FDA approved. It will filter rain, snow and swimming pool water: http://www.atkinsid.com/bottle.htm and if you put "Duane" anywhere on the form he will give Y2Kers a 5% discount. Good luck in your prep work.

-- Duane (Duane24062@aol.com), February 01, 1999.

I just read a post last week on the Y2K for women chat line. Someone said that we should NOT store any water in plastic milk containers. They are bio-degradeable and therefore begin to break down quickly. He mentioned because of this the pores in the milk jug contain bacterium and that even using the milk jugs to store water for other than drinking is a danger because you would be spreading bacteria unknowingly.

Please, if anyone has info. and facts regarding this I would like to see them, for now I am only using soda bottles to store water in.

But lets not kid ourselves. In Stevens book - Making the Best of Basics he says we should have a minimum of 1 gal. per person per (6 in mine) day. So for two weeks I would need 84 gal. I can't drink that much pop. Multiply that by a 6 month supply and I am in deep doodo! I don't have the space or containers to store that kind of water. Realisticly what can we do? Mary

-- Mary (doesnotmatter@thistime.com), February 01, 1999.

Mary -- You can also collect empty juice containers of the glass or plastic variety...

-- Libby Alexander (libbyalex@aol.com), February 01, 1999.

First, the plastic milk jugs will degrade over time. I've had several spring leaks on me. Empty pop bottles are better.

Second, regardless of what water you are storing, it's recommended that you add a little bleach to it in order assure that it's safe when you use it. Keeping the stored water dark helps, too, since it prevents algae growth.

Third, you can store a lot of water in pop bottles, but as pinted out, if you want to guarantee water for weeks you have a big need. Suggestions are:

1. Use 55 gallon drums. These can still be obtained from soft drink distributors, usually for little cost. They must be washed out thoroughly (and your water still may taste a little like coke).

2. Buy new drums. I've seen these priced from $38 to $65 on the net, depending on how much a company is sticking it to you.

3. Use soft bags. A good source is Watertanks. These were $89 for a 200 gallon bag. The bag can be stored practically anywhere.

Regardless of the method you choose it wouldn't hurt to have a method of purifying water available to you. It's hard to store enough for a long crisis. You can store enough to allow you to reach alternate sources and to implement your own water purification scheme.

Boiling is the best (pour boiled water back and forth between containers a few times to restore oxygen).

Pastuerization is a valid method. You can distill your own, too. Solar distiller plans are available -- search under solar water distillation.

You can add bleach to a lot of water, or iodine (which I think tastes worse.

Finally, use a filter only after you've used some other method, such as bleach. The finer the filter (the smaller the particle size it filters) the more expensive. Activated charcoal can also be good.

Oh yes, you can also make a filter, using a barrel. Poke a hole in the bottom of the barrel, add a couple of inches of gravel, then some sand, some activated charcoal, and some more sand. When filtering, let the water run into the top of the barrel, and collect the water coming out the bottom. This works well for roof top run off, but I'd use a screen to eliminate leaves, etc. first. The barrel filter is good for generating family sized water supplies. It works for rain water, or pond/stream water, but I'd add bleach to the pond/stream water. Heck, you could probably collect water running down the storm gutter of a street, filter it, add chlorine, micro filter it and drink.

-- De (dealton@concentric.net), February 01, 1999.

See your local bottling or food processing facility. You should be able to find used 5-gall to (more rare) 55-gall food-grade containers at no charge. You'll have to clean out the syrup or food product but the containers are sturdy, safe for water and usually free. U.S. Plastics, somewhere on the Web, sells similar containers at relatively reasonable prices and customers seem pleased, judging from comments posted on various fora. An example of water sterilization info follows. Most confusion over how to treat water stems from whether the authority is referring to tap water, "wild" water or flood water. Tap water gets the lowest dose. Because bottled bleach begins to lose its effectiveness after six months, so that by one year you have to use double the amount, you might want to investigate swimming pool chemicals. (I can't remember the quantities for sterilizing water, hope someone else can.)

http://www.hlth.gov.bc.ca/hlthfile/hfile49b.html

Ministry of Health, Health File #49b, August, 1997

Why should I disinfect my drinking water?

Drinking water is disinfected to kill disease-causing micro-organisms (bacteria, viruses and parasites)which may be in it.

Many different diseases are spread by drinking water contaminated by micro-organisms, including Campylobacter, cholera, amoebic dysentery, beaver fever (Giardia) and Cryptosporidia. These organisms usually get into drinking water supplies when source waters (i.e.. lakes, streams) or community water supply pipes or storage reservoirs are contaminated by animal wastes or human sewage.

In general, surface waters such as streams and lakes are more likely to contain disease-causing organisms than groundwater. Deep wells are safer than shallow wells. In fact, shallow dug wells are often as contaminated as lakes or streams.

When should I disinfect my drinking water

You should disinfect your drinking water if:

your community has been issued a boil water advisory;

you are using water directly from a stream, lake or shallow well;

lab tests of your water show that it contains "fecal coliforms";

an earthquake or other disaster has disrupted your community water supply;

you are traveling in an area where water is not well treated (third world countries); or

you have a weakened immune system (in which case you should disinfect all of your drinking water).

Disinfecting small quantities of water Boiling:

Boiling is the best way to kill bacteria, viruses and parasites. A full boil for at least two minutes is recommended. At elevations over 2,000 meters (6,500 feet) you should boil water for at least three minutes to disinfect it.

NOTE: This is not appropriate for water that is obviously heavily polluted, or subject to chemical contamination.

To remove the flat taste of boiled water, leave the boiled water in a clean covered container for a few hours or pour the cooled boiled water back and forth from one clean container to another.

Disinfection using chemical methods:

Unscented household bleach (5% chlorine) can sometimes be a good disinfectant - e.g. when the water is not heavily polluted, or when beaver fever or cryptosporidiosis are not a concern.

Disinfection using bleach works best with warm water. Add 1 drop (0.05 mL) of bleach to 1 Litre of water, shake and allow to stand for at least 30 minutes before drinking.

Double the amount of bleach for cloudy water, or for cooler water.

 A slight chlorine odour should still be noticeable at the end of the 30 minute waiting period if you have added enough bleach.

The disinfection action of bleach depends as much on the waiting time after mixing as to the amount used. The longer the water is left to stand after adding bleach, the more effective the disinfection process will be.

NOTE: Bleach does not work well in killing off beaver fever (Giardia) or Cryptosporidium parasites. The amount of bleach needed to kill these parasites makes the water almost impossible to drink. If beaver fever or Cryptosporidium are in your water, boiling is the best way to ensure safe drinking water.

Chlorine Tablets:

Follow the manufacturers' directions.

Iodine:

Whenever possible use warm water (20 0C) and let stand a minimum of 20 minutes after mixing and before drinking.

For cold water (5 - 150C) increase the waiting time after mixing to 40 minutes.

If you are using 2% tincture of iodine, use 10 drops (0.5 mL) for every one litre of water.

With iodine tablets, follow the manufacturer's directions.

PLEASE NOTE:

Pregnant women should not use iodine drops to purify water as it may have an effect on the fetus.

Iodine should not be used to disinfect water over long periods of time as prolonged use can cause thyroid problems.

Disinfecting larger amounts of water in tanks or barrels

Always use clean containers which are designed for storage of food or water. You can use regular household bleach (usually about 5% chlorine) or commercial bleach products (usually 10% chlorine) .

The table below shows how much regular household bleach to add to various size water containers to disinfect relatively clean water.

If you are treating water from a lake, stream or shallow well, use twice as much household (5%) bleach as indicated in the chart below and wait twice as long before drinking it because it is more likely to contain chlorine-resistant parasites from animal droppings. Let the water stand for at least an hour after adding the bleach before you start drinking it. If the water is colder than 100C or has a pH higher than 8, let the water stand for at least two hours before drinking.

Gallons of water to disinfect (equivalent shown in brackets), followed by amount of Household bleach (5%) to add.*

1 gal. (4.5 litres), 2 drops (0.18 mL)

2-1/5 gal. (10 litres), 5 drops (0.4 mL)

5 gal. (23 litres), 11 drops (0.9 mL)

10 gal. (45 litres), 22 drops (1.8 mL)

22 gal. (100 litres), 3/4 teaspoon (4 mL)

45 gal. (205 litres), 1-1/2 teaspoons (8 mL)

50 gal. (230 litres), 1-3/4 teaspoons (9 mL)

100 gal. (450 litres), 3-1/2 teaspoons (18 mL)

220 gal. (1000 litres), 8 teaspoons (40 mL)

500 gal. (2200 litres), 6 tablespoons (90 mL)

1000 gal. (4550 litres), 6-1/2 ounces or 12 tablespoons (180 mL)

*Adding household (5%) bleach at these amounts will produce water with about 2 parts per million of chlorine in it (about 0.0002 percent).

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 01, 1999.

For the inexpensive route, try www.glitchproof.com. They sell foodgrade plastic liner bags for 55 gallon drums. You can buy 4 for under $15. Then use the bags to line any new plastic trash can from Walmart and fill with water plus the added bleach as noted above. Tie off the top of the bag and cover with the lid to keep out contaminants.

It has an added benefit over buying 55 gallon drums or water bags in that you can easily get water in or out because it's an open top. Just use a clean pitcher or bucket. I thought this was particularly advantageous if you think you may need to replenish your water supply from a source other than your home's spicut. For instance, suppose you need to go and retrieve water from a water truck or a local watershed lake. You can load an empty trash can and liner bag into the back of a car or minivan and use a bucket to easily procure your water. When you get home, simply use the bucket to transfer the water to a second lined trash can at home.

They are so easy to use and inexpensive, I purchased extra liner bags to distribute to my family and closest neighbors to give them a "push" in the right direction regarding prep.

I also purchased some foodgrade plastic 5 gallon buckets from www.watertanks.com and filled with treated water (no need for liners). I did this because they are easily moved around the house and can also be given to neighbors who come looking for water.

I hope this helps some.

David

-- David (David@BankPacman.com), February 01, 1999.

Do you have a water bed? Hey water is water you might not have a place to sleep but at least you will not be thirsty! Well it was just a thought. Tman...

-- Tman (Tman@water.com), February 01, 1999.

It is getting to be less and less of a worry to me, as I read these posts, to deal with obtaining drinkable water. It is to be taken seriously but it is very comforting that to know if one is aware of what and how to do things, its rather simple, given the time.

Here is my contribution to means of filtering. Use a towel draped over the edge of a container full of dirty water so the inside end of the towel is in the water and the outside end hangs down to a point lower than the water level. The water will wick up the towel, leaving all the mud and other particles in the towel as it rises. In time the entire towel will contain water and the syphon action will keep clean water dripping off the end into another container.

As for sterilizing the water after clearing it of particles, another post points out that water heated to 147 degrees for 6 minutes is enough to kill everything harmful to humans. The link provided shows a "solar puddle" which was a simple means for the sun to heat the water. Obviously there are a thousand ways to heat water to 147 degrees including filling the hose that lays in the yard during the day and provides nearly scalding water upon use. I consider it a VERY useful fact that full boiling isn't really necessary to purify water against germs.

Of course metals are not alive to be killed by heat and so boiling and recondensing the steam would be the way to go if you suspect the need for that.

Me.

-- Floyd Baker (fbaker@wzrd.com), February 07, 1999.

Wait a minute - wait a minute - wait a minute.

Don't _store _water now - get storage containers now, and be ready to store water in very late Dec 1999.

There is absolutely no reason to expect regular water supplies in anybody's hometown to fail before Jan 1, 2000 - and several reasons to expect them (regardless of circumstances) to be okay for at least a few hours, maybe 1-2 days into next year before low pressure, loss of wells and pumps, loss of chemical control injections in the water treatment plants, and sewage problems begin screwing up the supplies. Again - all are potential sources of the basic problem: bad, undrinkable water in your house taps - your mileage may vary based on your local water supply utility.

So, don't store water now in the "milk jugs" - store the milk jugs themselves after you clean, decontaminate it, and dry them - but if you chose to use milk jugs, be aware that they may cause problems after a few weeks of use. Hopefully, either things will begin recovering by then (mid-February 2000), or things will be completely degraded, and simply storage won't be good enough - you're back at the "distill and filter and boil" level. Then go ahead and again store the newly distilled "good" water temporarily in the milk jugs until needed - probably the trun over will be fairly rapid from distilling to use, so the milk jug degradation wouldn't be a problem.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), February 07, 1999.

Look for sales on new 55-gallon water drums. I got mine from a local hardware store for $20. This one has a faucet towards the bottom of the drum, which should be handy. A 55-gallon drum can easily fit in a closet when dealing with freezing outdoor temperatures. One caveat, 55 gallons of water weighs about 350 pounds, so be sure your floors can support that if you need indoor storeage.

-- Wanda (lonevoice@mailexcite.com), February 07, 1999.