Maybe this wasn't the place to post the recipe for the tonic. No Ned,I am not new age,a kook,& I am not ignorant. I was just offering it to anyone who may be interested in alternative medicine.I'm sure there are many who can't afford antibiotics for the entire family & others who do not have a phycician that will prescribe them.My family & friends have used it all winter with amazing results. Also, I didn't do the new moon thing either...I added it because it was on the recipe. Who knows...there may actually be something to it as Monique pointed out. You are rude Ned...you could have ignored the post if you weren't interested...you really know how to make a newbie feel welcome. Kara :)

-- Kara (JCclass69@aol.com), January 29, 1999

Answers

Kara,

Yes there are rude people in this world today.......I've found the best way to deal with them is to ignore them........actually, I thought your receipes were a very helpful suggestion.....as you said, not everyone has the connections or the finances to store extra pharmacy type remedies........we may just all find ourselves in need of alternatives at one time or another.......

Thanks for sharing,

Sandy

-- Paul & Sandy Stambaugh (patches96@worldnet.att.net), January 29, 1999.

Hi there Kara,

I could have found a more polite way to make my point, and I apologize for that.

However, it is just impossible for me to let this kind of thing pass. There is so much paranoia and unreason on this board already. How anyone could take seriously a remedy that depends on the phase of the moon during which it was prepared for its efficacy just flummoxes me. To my mind, it reveals an astounding lack of knowledge and judgement. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel about it. I've taken the rational side in a couple of threads like this - challenging the efficacy of remedies like colloidal silver, for example - but I won't start on that. Seems as if there are people here who will accept an 'alternative' remedy just because it flies in the face of reason.

I really wouldn't want a visitor coming here to see that thread, with no replies but credulous ones. He'd think we were all new age kooks. The point had to be made. Perhaps you can suggest how I could have done this equally forcefully and more courteously?

-- Ned (entaylor@cloudnet.com), January 29, 1999.

Kara: This was indeed a place to share your tonic and I'm sure many of the particpants here appreciated it. Some may not - if so, no big deal. Try to ignore anything that seems personal (even if it was).

Even I get a bit on the surly side sometimes but I try not to take it personally. It's still the best Y2K forum going - due in large part to the diversity of opinion combined with more than just few personal philosophies. Thicken your skin just a bit and proceed forward.

Now, I'm basically a science kind of person. One of my favorite books was The Demon Haunted World: Science As A Candle In The Dark by Carl Sagan. It should be required reading.

I also know and understand the great importance of the classic double-blind testing methodology. If substance "A" does no better than placebo, then effecacy has not been demonstrate.

That being said, I've also done enough reading to know that many natural products, including garlic, onions, horseradish, hot pepper, etc. contain ingredients which can promote healing and treat diseases. I also understand that for thousands of years, those were the only medicines humans had.

So I would not be opposed to trying the mixture you described. Other than a particularly strong taste -- I don't think there would be any harm in trying.

I think what threw many people were the 'new moon' part of the instructions. Still, as any glance through a farmer's almanac will demonstrate, those kinds of instruction have been around for a long time. Personally, it would take 3-4 double-blinds (by different scientists) to convince me that the 'new moon' part of this was significant but again, I would be willing to try even without this kind of hard proof.

For example, I tried the echinacea/golden seal route for 2 years at the behest of my brother. Unfortunately, it did nothing to help reduce the frequency or severity of my winter-time colds/flus/URIs but I'm not sorry I tried.

Later, a friend asked if it was OK for her prayer group to pray for an improvement. I said sure. This did not seem to help either but hey, I don't blame her or God and she was just trying to be a friend.

You'll find many differences of opinion here and many different approaches to the many issues surrounding Y2K. It's been that way since I started particpating here and I hope that doesn't change.

If everybody around you is in total agreement on all the issues, you've probably landed yourself in a cult. This forum gets accused of that from time to time, but in reality I think you'll find that there are many independent thinkers here. In any group of independent thinkers, there will be sharp disagreements.

Don't take Ned too seriously. We all get frustrated with the huge number of issue involved here and the many unknowns that we face. You are also mixing with a large number of people whom you you would have never known had it not been for Y2K. Many different ages. Many different backgrounds. A lot of fear and anxiety - some justified, some not. Lots of information - some good, some bad. A lot of determination. Some good ideas, some silly ideas. Some ranting and raving. Some professional trolling, some novice trolling. Some anger and frustration. Some name calling. Many with the courage of their convictions. Many contributors. More than a few solutions. Maybe some are right for you. I know some have been right for me. This is who we are.

I'd encourage you to stick around. We may all learn a thing or two along the way. If things don't turn out so bad, who knows, I may one day find myself thanking you for that horrible-tasting, foul-smelling concoction that just happened to work - uh, however hard it is for me to imagine that now :-)

Regards, Arnie

PS. Just don't tell me it has to be eaten with a side of hominy and lutefisk.

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), January 29, 1999.

My family taught us to plant and harvest by the moons. Ever read "Poor Richards Almanac?" Maybe that's just for us old folks, but hey, it works....

-- Mr. Kennedy (y2kPCfixes@MotivatedSeller.com), January 29, 1999.

Kara & Arine: Alternative medicine should be treated respectfully and scientifically. It is up to the claimant be be careful to present the alternative scientifically. Then there is little room for wild attacks. Just be a little more careful next time.

-- curtis schalek (schale1@ibm.net), January 30, 1999.

Ned -- obviously you aren't familiar with biodynamics. It's an approach to agriculture that is currently in use by many people in many different countries. They find that it works, and they use it. There is an unconventional philosophy and worldview involved in biodynamics, but the crops these people grow don't care what philosophy the farmers use. The point is that the practices recommended work quite well. If they didn't, the people using them would do something else.

If you're curious, have a look through . If not, that's fine too.

In either case you've got no call to complain when someone expresses a notion you don't care for. This world has plenty of room for different opinions.

Saying "I don't believe it" is a bit arrogant, when your only basis for disbelief is disbelief itself.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), January 30, 1999.

Sorry.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), January 30, 1999.

Ned, you might be interested in this site to get alternative information on some alternative remedies.

http://www.quackwatch.com

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), January 30, 1999.

Ned.....

Your first post was bad.

Your second was even more arrogant and offensive.

I don't recall anyhone appointing you as judge of medical truth on this forum.

... To my mind, it reveals an astounding lack of knowledge and judgement. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel about it. I've taken the rational side in a couple of threads like this....

That is arrogant. That is rude. That is also uncalled for. And, your 'side' is only rational to you. If you care to present facts and sources, fine, but don't resort to petty little name calling in order to advance your thesis. And, that's what this sort of language is -- cheap Usenet debate that accomplishes nothing.

I really wouldn't want a visitor coming here to see that thread, with no replies but credulous ones. He'd think we were all new age kooks. The point had to be made.

Oh, my.......goodness, gracious. No, it really wouldn't do if anyone stopped by and saw something Ned didn't agree with, would it? I mean, good old rational Ned.

Friend, you are very full of yourself.

Yes, as others have told you, if you don't agree with something you always have the option of keeping your hands off the keys. In other words, shut up!!!! Second, stop resorting to putting other people down, as you did above.

And, since one of the possible fallouts of Y2K is a lack of medical care in the days following, alternative remedies become a viable option for many people. I know that you'd prefer to die rather than try one.....goodness, some one might actually think less of you....but you may have that actual choice. Better to learn now. That knowledge, even though you disparage it, may prove valuable to some.

Have a good day

-- De (dealton@concentric.net), January 30, 1999.

"Yes, as others have told you, if you don't agree with something you always have the option of keeping your hands off the keys. In other words, shut up!!!!"

Heaven forbid that anyone on this forum should express a differing opinion!

However I will grant you that I would have done well to respond in Arnie's style, pointing out the reasons to be skeptical about the 'cure all' without calling into question the perspecacity of the person who posted it.

-- Ned (entaylor@cloudnet.com), January 30, 1999.