How To Dispose of the Dead?

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I live in snow country, 5 miles from the nearest town of ~300 and 20 miles from the nearest of ~3000. Several of my neighbors are elderly. If there were a serious breakdown of infrastructure some of these folks would possibly be at risk (yes, I have extra supplies to help take care of them). If the worst happened, what would be the most appropriate/sensitive way to handle a dead body when the ground is frozen solid?

I'm not kidding about this question. I like to think about these things ahead of time.

Looking especially for Leska and/or Anita E. to answer this one. Or Hardliner and other combat veterans perhaps?

Thanks.

-- Franklin Journier (ready4y2k@yahoo.com), January 20, 1999

Answers

January 1-14: Cremation

January 15 on: Dinner!

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 20, 1999.


I hate trolls.

Will the real Leska please stand up?

-- Franklin Journier (ready4y2k@yahoo.com), January 20, 1999.


In the old days, The dead were kept in the woodshed till spring. They were then brought to town for burial. Packing a body in snow or ice and wrapping it in canvas would delay putrification. The woodshed would keep animals at bay.

In one of Hemingway's novels, he described trench warfare in the Alps. The parapets were constructed of frozen dead bodies. The soldiers would shake the pertruding hand of one of the bodies for luck before going over the top.

Bill in South Carolina (where bodies won't freeze)

-- Bill Solorzano (notacle@webtv.net), January 20, 1999.


Franklin, that was really me, just the really tired me. Sorry. But I *have* been doing a bunch of cannibalism posts. Am vegetarian & nonviolent, but have read history and know cannibalism happens. Think it will be par for the course of dinner in 2000.

OK, as seriously as possible with no sleep:
Laws, only have 24 hours from minute of death before MUST turn body over to authorities. If not Dr-expected, usually an inquiry. Maybe embalmed, buried, or cremated by licensed facilities. Variations to this but basically that's how it goes these days.

Will local facilities, govt, laws, etc by functioning when you need to deal with the remains of your neighbors?

It is respectful to let the newly dead rest in place for several hours. Won't go into metaphysical truths here, but if one can give the soul time to adjust, please let them. Could give lots of tips re 'help-the-mortuary-out' but in this case don't expect pick-up.

To get right down to the practicals, this summer when the earth is easier to dig, make deep graves ahead of time, then cover with plywood and plastic and earth. Don't put in places where neighbors will fall and sue you and you'll be imprisoned in a mental prison. "Oh, I was being considerate digging your grave early." If you don't have a grave dug and it's freezing/snowing/wet out, you can wrap the body in plastic bags and put in a secure place, such as an unused closed garage, until you can dig grave. Tie bags tight.

Imagine villagers will want to dig mass graves or communal crematory pile come spring. Won't want to use up so much valuable wood per body. Sorry, Franklin, too sleepless this morning to be much help.

Above all, treat the body respectfully. It's fine to talk out loud to the person deceased, talking thru what you're doing and explaining ahead your step by steps. You'll find this comforting. We know, we do it all the time.

Later, when I'm not so trolly.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 20, 1999.


Go to Major Surplus and Survival. Buy the body bags. Go to the hardware store and get about 15 pounds of lime/body. Remove any useful items from the body.Attach some ID to the body(Drivers license in the mouth if it's laminated). Place the body in the bag.Coat with lime. Remember and protect yourself from the lime's chem hazard and the body's biohazard.Promptly clean up any spilled body fluids with straight bleach.Place the clean up media into the bag.Store the body in a closed/cold/vented space.Or you could place it into a rock cairn to keep the animals away.Record location of body and notify authorities of bodys location.Cry a lot.

-- nine (nine_fingers@hotmail.com), January 20, 1999.


Franklin,

I posted this here once before, but I can't find the thread anymore. It's a post from the Y2KCHAOS forum and covers not only the question of dealing with the dead, but some other information that is relevant for communities. The poster, "Major Disaster" is a real guy and a Naval Aviator. It's not dinner table conversation, but "nitty-gritty" information seldom is. Hope this helps you out and that you don't have to deal with such issues often.

With specific reference to the issue of frozen ground when burial is required, it's sort of self solving. If it's that cold, the remains must be stored in an unheated but protected (from weather, animals, etc.) manner. It certainly won't matter to the departed and the survivors will understand and deal with the realities of the situation in order to achieve "closure".

*****************************

Date: January 19, 1998 01:34 PM Author: Major Disaster Subject: Shelter Biology/Sociology 101

As a FEMA certified Disaster Manager (don't let that spook you--it's a govt mail order course I took while in the C.A.P.), I'm obligated to pass on some of the following observations.

(1) Regarding Shelter Management (interpreted here as several families saving resources by all living in single, emergency equipped home during first winter of Y2K breakdown), thought must be given to intimacy requirements of married couples. In some shelters, there can be virtually no privacy--not even bed time (all sleeping round a single wood stove, etc.).

Best advice is to set aside a remote "reading room" which every single adult or married couple has sole access to for 90 min-2 hours per day. It should be understood that this room is not to be approached by others, as all need time away from each other's elbows for reflection, private prayer, reading, settling family matters privtely (for husband and wife), "Etc." No other big explanations are needed, as married couples will figure out real quick what else the fold out couch can be used for.

(2) Watch out for the "Cave Factor." Like it or not, this is a reality that every man I've ever privately polled has admitted to me: "If a female guest stays at my home (like, even to visit the wife), I have sexual urges for her." Yea, yea, I know that's horrible and all, but it is reality.

It might have something to do with primitive biological programming or something (thus the "cave" monkiker), but it is there. Recommendation: men, stay away from the females in the shelter, whether other wives, friend's daughter, etc. The Air Force Survival Manual warns downed aviators, "While treating all females with respect, try to deal only with the men of a village. Do not fraternize with native females. Those who violate this rule end up with a spear in the belly or a knife in the back."

Females, you can help out here. Wear loose fitting clothes, appear nondescript, etc. Don't scoff, what is workable in modern society can prove disastrous under emergency/field conditions. Allow me to give a real life example here.

While undergoing 3 days of J.E.S.T. training in the jungles of the Philippines, on first day I had the unfortunate experience of being placed behind 2 fresh-out-of-college Navy nurses who were climbing the trail in front of me. Matters were made worse by the male flight suits they were wearing that were not cut for wider hips. Aside from the moving scenery ahead of me, people sweat profusely in the jungle too--and sweat includes phermones. I was in total agony and losing concentration on trail safety--finally volunteered for point just to get away from/in front of them, but was mindless for the rest of the day and had an awful night tossing and turning (as if sleeping on a bamboo "cot" wrapped in a wet poncho and being ate up by clouds of misquitoes wasn't bad enough).

On day two (too hot for full flight suits, everyone unzips them to the waist and ties them there with flight suit arms--everyone in sweat-soaked t-shirts) we had temper flareups, flirtatious stupidity, favoritism, etc., in the ranks so we all had one of those "sensitivity sessions" the liberals like so much. We leveled with the women (who had no idea that such primalness could get so far out of control so quickly) and made appropriate changes that prevented further problems (including spare shirts tied over their hips, and sweat towels tucked in at the neck and draping down the front of their wet t-shirts instead of thrown over the shoulder as the men did. Beware of the "Cave Factor."

(3) Casualties. While not directly related to the above, still is vitally important to shelter/group biology/health. (a) Remove sick as far as possible from others, for reasons of contagion and psychology.

(b) Sickroom ideally should be ventilated separately from primary shelter, or at least near fireplace to allow germ'd atmosphere to be immedietly drawn up flu rather than allowed to waft about rest of shelter.

(c) Shelter cleanliness imperative. Occupants must conduct "head to toe" self washcloth baths daily.

(d) Wash clothes/bedding regularly. If full laundry impossible, air-out in sun, or hold soiled clothing over fire for a few seconds to kill as many germs as possible.

(e) In case of death. Non relatives must constantly attend body for 48 hours or so until the corpse starts to "turn" (rigormortis, plus show first signs of bloating). This practice was ALWAYS done by our parent's generation prior to modern funeral arrangements. Such is necessary to be able to assure grieving family that casualty is indeed dead, and to remove all fears of "coming back to life" after burial--a commonly shared horror in such circumstances.

(f) Preparation for burial. Task must be carried out with extraordinary sensitivity. People ascribe much more introspective respect to corpse than to living; as this is "last time" to demonstrate love and respect for individual, therefor, no room for error. Prior to rigormortis/freezing, dress in funeral clothes (you cannot undress/dress a stiffened corpse), tie jaw shut and ensure eyes remain closed by placing coins outside lids to hold them shut. Arrange/temporarily restrain limbs comfortably.

(g) Burial, If no coffin or body bag, wrap in comfortable blanket. Dig grave at least 4' deep to prevent animal pillage and odors later. Line bottom of grave with grasses and evergreen boughs. Approriate remarks/religious ceremony. If no casket, forget about rope lowering--wrapped body is best emplaced in by several men standing IN GRAVE (must be wide enough for them move aside) who gently lower body by hand to bed of grasses, and then ascend from the pit (after placing any momentos family wishes to bury--such as favorite toy of child). Dirt is then quickly filled in, heaped up 18" or so to account for settling, and grave is marked.



-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), January 20, 1999.


Then, of course, you could always take the practice of the Tibetans who live on very high cold plateaus. They have special persons who take the body, chop it into bits, and put it onto high platforms, where vultures consume all but the bones. Then, bones are taken down, pounded into dust, and scattered to the wind. Of course, all is done with a high degree of ceremony and solemnity, and respect for the dead. Any volunteers for the post of undertaker? sorry it's late and paramedic humour got the best of me.:)

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), January 21, 1999.

Another reason we need local alliances is because different folks have different, uh, skills. We have two doctors, two nurses, three EMTs and a paramedic in our circle who are better primed than me for subject on this thread, God forbid. I'm better primed than them for 'y'.

And so it goes.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 21, 1999.


just ask funeral homes in snow country how they do it, since they obviously do it all the time. if you're going low-tech, though, you could thaw the ground a few inches at a time with hot water or other source of heat, which would be slow but doable.

-- jocelyne slough (jonslough@tln.net), January 21, 1999.

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