Is U.S. best place to be on 12/31/1999?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I currently live in a large US metro area. Am going to leave for the country soon (I can make my living anywhere). I have rural/farm skills and grew up on a farm. So would I rather be in the US, or some other country (Canada, Costa Rica)? Here is my decision grid - please feel free to advise me.
US pro: home turf, family could be nearby, know the language and the culture, widespread knowledge of *concept* of justice, familiar with local plant varieties and agricultural seeds and animal breeds, still time to build community network in new location, if Y2K turns out to be only a 2 or 3 - then I haven't disrupted my whole life(I want to live in a rural area anyway) , currently produces more food than citizens can eat (albeit heavily dependant on tech and fuel), if I have any money left after purchasing land/supplies/barter items I could buy and hold a few gold coins. US con: Citizenry heavily armed and relatively violent (lots of type "A" attitudes, most of population lives in urban area and are totally dependant on technology, even remote rural areas would be easily accessible by city folk with a full tank of gas.
Costa Rica pro: great climate, relaxed, mostly non-violent citizens, currently produce more food than they can eat using mostly low-tech methods, land is CHEAP (so cheap I could retire now), medical services are fair, I am nearly fluent in spanish, at least half of the population lives in the rural areas (another large percentage of city dwellers have friends and relatives who do), stable political system, no standing army. Costa Rica con: there will be more broken systems - they import all their fuel, far behind on women's equal rights (in practice), more bribery than in US? (I don't feel like I know the ropes), they still may be using nasty pesticides (DDT, aldrin etc..) as there is no EPA (in practice), I don't know how to hold cash in a way that won't be eaten up by inflation (Don't think I can hold gold coins and the inflation rate on the local currency is about 25%/year, neighboring countries are not politically stable and UN may not be available to keep the peace.
Canada Pro: Sparsely populated, less violent than US, land is cheap, they (mostly)speak English, and I consider this a colder version of the US. Canada Con:"Goodness its cold up there!" Have any of you who are US citizens thought about moving anywhere else? Feel free to give me all your thoughts and advice about where you plan to be on 12/31/1999 and why. Berry

-- Berry Picker (BerryPicking@yahoo.com), January 15, 1999

Answers

Darn - sorry about the way that all ran together.

next time I'll know to insert
some
line
breaks.! ;-D
Berry

-- Berry Picker (BerryPicking@yahoo.com), January 15, 1999.

Australia (northwest coast) pro:

About 7,000 km of desert from 95% of the population and 2000 km from the other 4.999%.

Land is dirt cheap.

You get to see the sun set over the water.

On a coast.

UN-armed population with a "legend" of self-reliance. In any case, when you're 7,600 km from Sydney and the government, there's not going to be much of a danger from anyone anyway.

Lots of tasty kangaroos hopping around in case your farm doesn't work out. (They're considered a pest, because they compete with sheep for grass. IMO, `roo meat is far better than beef.)

Totally remote from any possible poisonfire effects.

Reasonably secure currency.

West Australia cons

Remoteness is a two-edged sword. If you need help, it'll take days for it to arrive.

Kangaroos might eat your crops. I am not kidding here. They *are* considered a pest and unlike most pests, can jump three-metre fences.

Wombats could be a nuisance, too. They don't jump fences, they just go under `em. And eat.

(Note: kangaroos and wombats are also quite tasty, so I've been told. I would not personally be too annoyed by them coming to me; deer don't do that.)

--Leo

-- Leo (lchampion@ozemail.com.au), January 15, 1999.


BP

Got a friend who moved to Costa Rica. Bought a fruit farm. Gonna live the life of Riley.

2 years and counting, he's still a "Gringo" even if the folks are mostly nice. Been robbed once, and cheated more than. He's not a dummy, can even be a charming fellow. Gonna take a long time to fit in, even then, he will still be a "Gringo".

Just a thought.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), January 16, 1999.


Costa Rica = big huge mammoth enormous crawly bugs. Australia = dust storms, droughts, flash floods, brush fires, various animal infestations, poisonous snakes, crocodiles, miles & miles of nothing. Also huge bugs. Canada = cold. Not as many bugs, though.

Given any thought to New Zealand?

Personally don't want to live ANYwhere that law-abiding citizens are forbidden to have guns. As someone once asked me, "Do you want to live in a country where the only people armed are the police, the military, & the criminals....?"

-- Not a Sitting Duck (not@buggy.place), January 16, 1999.


Berry Just a thought. Have you spent much time in other countries. What race are you ( white, hispanic, etc)? Have you ever noticed how americans treat other people in this country who are not WASP? This can even translate into people of other colors/creeds, etc who have lived here for generations, and in at least one instance who have lived her prior to our arrival. People do not tolerate 'strangers' lightly, and it is far worse when times are tough. If you stick out in any way, ( color, culture, religion) then you can count on being singled out. It is true what you say about this culture being fairly violent and having lots o weapons available, but just for a moment think what is done to those who are perceived as being different than the parent or preferred culture. Especially if the strangers' culture was american which, in case you are not aware of it, is not paricularly liked in most parts of the world. The rest of the world ( even Latin America :)) would love to see America fall, and an american in their midst could conceivably be quite a target.

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), January 16, 1999.


The New Zealand immigration laws and requirements are available on the Net. Type in New Zealand Immigration and you will find pages with jobs as well as related stuff.. heaps of it.

Myth: NZers are not allowed guns.

Not true. Many NZers are licenced to possess guns. They must pass Police scrutiny and have firearms training. The purposes for which guns may be owned are sporting uses and vermin control. For example duck shooting and deer hunting. Weapons designed for killing people are illegal. Any person noting the contradiction here is correct. (What will kill an animal will kill people but we leave that aside.)

Hand guns are only permitted to Police and licenced gun collectors and only on evidence of 'proper' use. (Another contradiction.)

Handguns may not be carried and neither may other weapons without lawful reason. Self defence is not a lawful reason, so leave your hand gun elsewhere and your AK47.

On the other hand, if you meet the immigration criteria and are a peaceful law abiding citizen you will be welcome in New Zealand.

With 3 1/2 million people in an area the size of Japan or Britain there is still a little space left here for honest folks.

-- Bob Barbour (Bob Barbour@waikato.ac.nz), January 16, 1999.


Yes, but Bob forgets a few things. The long-standing relationship between New Zealanders and sheep, for example. And when I say "relationship", I mean that in more than one sense, if you know what I mean.

He also doesn't mention that most New Zealand companies have their HQs based in Sydney anyway.

Or the accents that New Zealanders have..

Or any of the other stuff that basically makes New Zealand to Australia, what Canada is to the US and the Irish are to the British ;)

Sorry, Bob- but why live there, when you could live HERE? ;)

-- Leo (lchampion@ozemail.com.au), January 16, 1999.


There is also this little problem with the soil there. There is basically no selenium in the soil, and this causes increased cancer and heart problem rates. They got around this by importing wheat from Australia, but do you really think that that'll be possible if Y2k is a bad one?

I also don't want to live where only the police, military, and criminals have guns.

Find a good rural spot in the US, and tough it out. It's like swapping wives or guns in mid-crisis. Stick with the one you know and are familiar with.

I would be really iffy on being a "gringo" in any Central/American country even now, let alone post Y2k.

-- Bill (billclo@hotmail.com), January 16, 1999.


Hi Leo,

H'mmm, I heard on the news that there is considerable migration from New Zealand to the Western Island. Rumour has it also that it raised the IQ of both places.

Trace element deficiency is localised and we identified and solved the problem ourselves.

Australia is a fine country, if you like things hot and dry. On the other hand if you want a clean, green, growth-all-year-round environment where fresh locally grown veges are available all year then you need to be on my side of the pond.

Nothing wrong with Oz Leo, and I understand your wish to refloat your sinking ship. You'll have the chance in the Americas Cup Challengers Competition coming up later this year.

Good Luck.

-- Bob Barbour (r.barbour@waikato.ac.nz), January 16, 1999.


I think Africa is probably the best place to be for Y2K! The people there are very nice and non-violent. Especially the black people in South Africa.

What a peaceful continent! No crime... very civilized people. And very industrious and intelligent.

*** N O T ***

-- -- Bill (billclo@hotmail.com), January 16, 1999.



generally speaking, yes. US is still the best to be when y2k hits us. just avoid the bad neighborhoods and places noted for their violence. australia, canada, japan, new zealand, singapore, some pacific islands and the scandinavian countries are probably a lot safer than other countries. here in the US, since the national guards and the police are gonna be spread too wide apart, you could make yourself safer by organizing ordinary citizens in your neighborhood to take turns in some kind of neighborhood watch round the clock. try to make adjoining neighborhoods join you. the bigger area, the better since fewer persons are needed to do the job as more people join in. in times like this, making one of the police officer as the leader is not too bad of an idea.

-- raham (year2000zz@aol.com), January 17, 1999.

That last post about Africa was not from me. I suppose that some jerk from another board has followed me here and is impersonating me. I guess I'll have to change my handle.

-- Bill (billclo@hotmail.com), January 18, 1999.

At least 20 miles away from the closest 7/11 ;-)

-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), January 19, 1999.

Canada pro: No nukes pointed at them. Don't rely on nuke electric generation either. Cold yes, but if you stay away from the coasts, dry cold is warmer than humid cold. Down outerwear and bed covers keep you toasty. Large cities are far and few, population of 26 million spread out over larger than US territory. Definitely pacifist people with a sense of community.

Canada con: hmmm...I'm biased.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), January 19, 1999.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ