Do you feel your neighbors are worth saving?

Be honest.

-- Mitchell Barnes (spanda@inreach.com), January 02, 1999

Answers

Philosophically, of course. Some of the kids are cute. But, in our case (low-income apt complex w/ unfriendly always-miffed scowling ppl), we can already see they'd ransack our little pad and gobble us down for dessert without a second thought. Worth saving as in if it's possible to anonymously get them to prepare ahead of time. After TSHTF, won't be able to save anybody, probably not even ourselves. But we do think we're worth saving ;-)

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 02, 1999.

Yes. Also not our place to "judge." Surprises come from everywhere.

Our soul's job is to choose to help those around us, or not. One way or another, we'll answer for our choices, at some point.

Which would you rather be surrounded by? Prepared neighbors ready to help one another, or totally surprised ones? The kind with guns and ammo in their closet and lots of "anger" about not being warned? How many ways can you spell PANIC? Then spell out the consequences of co- operation. Which would you choose?

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 02, 1999.

Diane, bravo, your point made clear and effective.

I agree with you completely, but am afraid of the neighbors knowing I'm a bit prepared BECAUSE no matter what they're told, many won't prepare at all, and will still be angry. Youch.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 02, 1999.

Leska, "am afraid of the neighbors knowing I'm a bit prepared."

Try to get over that fear. It causes more problems in the long run.

It's the same argument the government is making for NOT preparing the nation. (Though that strategy may have just shifted this weekend). Their FEAR has been that people will panic if they know the truth. "They" fear self-fulfilling problems .. bank runs, food shortages, etc. Fear paralyzes when it is unexpected, then anger explodes it. We all have a year to "get it" and get ready. Calm concern and taking local action is the more likely scenario for an informed public.

Don't allow fear to hold you back. Letting go of it may be the healthiest thing you can do for your future. Hear that Washington?

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 02, 1999.

Heeheeheeheehee. Diane, if you *saw* my neighbors, you'd run. Like Robert Cook says, "It's local."

Fear can be healthy if based on hard factual reality. Otherwise we'd be fools. Yeah, I know all too well metaphysically how we create our reality by our thoughts. *And* we're endowed with reason, feeling, imagination, will, and intuition to help us learn, evolve, develop discriminative intelligence, and adapt. So using all of the above, we have already tried to alert our neighbors. Now our fear is they'll remember when TSHTF!

Now it must seem incredibly stooooopid that we'd stay in this situation, but there are enormous advantages in our location excluding the collapse of society. Groan, we're starting to consider moving. Moving would seriously jeopardize all we've built up to this point. So it's a balancing, juggling act on a tight highwire. Watching all the barometers very carefully. But it's out of the question to have any more interaction with the neighbors.

We *have* just reached out more to our "community" and are getting responses. We're going back to our NET groups to brainstorm. We're actively helping a disaster prep company start-up. We're probably in the top 5% of US citizens Y2K prep-net by trying to help others (easy because hardly anybody, comparatively, is doing anything :)

Just dem neighbors :-P

Ashton & Leska in Cascadia, loving our neighbors at a distance

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 02, 1999.

Leska follow that intuition and "gut feeling." Sometimes new neighbors IS the better choice.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 02, 1999.

Their only worth saving if they contributing. Most of my neighbors are capable of fending for themselves (have money for food), but may not be physically prepared to fend for themselves. They would rather spend their time and money on nonessentials. They DGI! They DWTGI, so they are not my responsibility. I have enough for my family and that's it. As a matter of fact, I was the only one in close proximity to have a garden. I shared with the neighbors, but no one volunteered to water or weed my garden while we were away several times. This next planting season will be different. I will only plant what my family can use, put my drip system on a timer, and save the seeds for Y2K. And Leska, sounds like you better move from your home. There's people out there who will roll you in a minute if you let them. If you plan to stay, buy a 12 gauge shotgun.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 02, 1999.

My mail server is bolloxed today, but one of the last I received came in on a Prep list. The San Fran area man was getting his car's oil changed and asked the help there at Lubes R Us about y2k. One guy responded "Time to LOOT!"

-- Mitchell Barnes (spanda@inreach.com), January 02, 1999.

And time to shoot.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 02, 1999.

For anyone who has not yet seen it, you should rent the movie "The Trigger Effect". The plot is that the electricity and communications (e.g., phone service) go out in a typical U.S. city and suburbia (nothing to do with Y2K). The resultant aftermath, and how a yuppie couple (who initially don't want to think of owning a gun) deal with it, is real educational. (Admittedly its somewhat of a "Grade B" movie, but believe me, once the Y2K-like events start, you will be glued to your seat.)

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), January 02, 1999.

Mitchell do you think the guy at the lube place was kidding?? Your new garden may not be safe. Are you going to stay up night and day guarding it? Does your new Amish lifestyle permit blasting Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts for stealing a turnip? Looting is real in both urban and rural areas. How will you deal with it?

-- Bill (bill@microsoft.com), January 02, 1999.

the scariest thing to me about y2k is not all of the "how will we deal with water, elect, etc etc) BUT it is the realization that all of the stuff i've tried to teach my kids about loving your neighbor and the golden rule - i will be put into situations where i will have to live what i say. and these situations will be scary to me. someone asked me at a y2k forum if i was storing ammo, etc and i said no if anyone wants food from me they're welcome to it. in thinking about it later, i realized that i try to teach my kids to love other people and now this may really be the test of those words s

-- Sharon Schultz (shalom100@aol.com), January 03, 1999.

The people in 79, sure. They're nice, even though their damn dog barks too much.

The guys in 75, no. Let `em die. They ruined our view, they play loud music at all hours, they park in front of our driveway. If THEY come looting, you better believe it when I say I'd ENJOY pulling the trigger and end THEIR miserable rappin' lives.

--Leo

-- Leo (lchampion@ozemail.com.au), January 03, 1999.

Who is my neighbor?

One of my neighbors, directly across the street, is a police sarge in the Swat team. We've talked some about Y2K, and he scoffs at it, says he is too much of an optimist to worry about a computer problem. When we talked about public panic and bank runs, he laughed, and said his swat tems were going to be earning a lot of overtime money. Why? No one knows how to store their cash, and the looters are already picking up on this. His police teams are going to be real busy (already are? Don't see much of him these days) helping to protect JQP.

Frankly, I would like to have him as an ally in the event THSHTF in our neighborhood. He has a family, two young children, wife, nice home. But, as far as I can tell, he and his wife are not doing any preparations. Where do you think he'd remember to go for food if the grocery stores are empty and his children are getting hungry?

I think very seriously about moving.

Another neighbor (in the larger sense) is my pastor and the church community where I am a member). The pastor wrote an answer to my concerns for some sort of program for bringing awareness and action to the church and city community. The pastor's response: We will do something about this (Y2K) issue when/or if it needs our attention. Let's see, maybe 12/99?

Another reason to move?

-- Joseph (jbabinsky@theriver.com), January 03, 1999.

It's a difficult situation. I've prepared as best I can, and are likely to be the best prepared in my area. I'm maintaining a low profile, and for awhile, will imitate the unfortunate people who didn't prepare. I have anonymously put out some material on Y2k that should help some of them "get it", and that's all I can do and remain low profile, unfortunately.

One neighbor, I'd help, because 1) they are helpful, 2) are farmers, 3) seem like decent people. They kinda get the idea of being able to "fend for themselves" On my other side, the people are 1) snooty, 2) are highly disrespectful of my property (blowing trash, and dog crap on my lawn) 3) DWGI, 4) typical yuppie scum. Forget helping them.

The rest of the neighborhood, I dunno. A couple of people wave/talk to me once in a while, and we'd have to see about them. The rest, they'd better have something real good to barter, and still, they aren't getting too much food (I have to save for the future, and I can't run out of food helping the unprepared).

It's just as likely that they'd band together to take what I have, and that's the reason for my only wanting to help the one neighbor. If I help the one, and they can keep out of sight, and keep their mouthes shut, it might work for awhile.

IMHO, most people need a few good swift smacks upside the head to realign their priorities, and make them realize what's important in life, and change their lifestyles. Most people aren't even capable of the concept of fending for themselves/being somewhat self-sufficient, let alone prepare to, or do it. It's impossible to be totally self-sufficient for any real length of time, but they wouldn't even try, in most cases.

That's why I'm well armed, and ready to hunker down for awhile, and let them kill each other.

-- Bill (billclo@hotmail.com), January 03, 1999.

We were almost ready to pull the plug here in our small town. We had neighbors who lived by their own rules. I complained several times to their landlord about the 15 year old kid who'd kill you if you looked at him. They threw garbage on our property. It was a nightmare. They finally got evicted. People like this don't deserve food. It would have been fun watching them starve. :) We feel much better about staying here now. I don't tell anyone we have food and I think it's best that way. When I hear talk of y2K at work, I don't say a word.

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), January 03, 1999.

Bill (bill@microsoft.com) trolled: > >Mitchell do you think the guy at the lube place was kidding??

Cannot judge, I wasn't there.

> Your new garden may not be safe.

You assume it is a new garden.

>Are you going to stay up night and day guarding it?

I'm not telling.

>Does your new Amish lifestyle permit blasting Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts for stealing a turnip?

I'm not Amish.

>Looting is real in both urban and rural areas. How will you deal with it?

Since you ask all the questions re protection, obviously these things are on your mind a lot.

-- Mitchell Barnes (spanda@inreach.com), January 03, 1999.

"I don't tell anyone we have food and I think it's best that way. When I hear talk of y2K at work, I don't say a word. "

Sounds like the people in my office. I've tried to raise a bit of consciousness -- it's a scholastic environment, they're all over-educated -- & all I get are shrugs & coy smiles. I guess they either think I'm looney, or they're better prepared than I am & choose to keep their mouths shut about it.

It's pretty creepy either way! Welcome to y2k paranoia.

-- InEducation (wontfindme@aol.com), January 03, 1999.

Only ones worth saving are a few sweet young things. I'm stocking up on baby (ass) wipes and rubbers (condoms for the politically correct).

-- a*man (aman@horndog.com), January 04, 1999.

I have tried to "save the neighbors". I have spoken with those we are friends with. We are developing a Y2K education campaign at church. It is my belief that a prepared community is a safer community. Some neighbors are preparing. Some are not. For better or worse, some of them know that we are preparing. At this point, I am not concerned about the neighbors. I live in a small town and I believe that most will have had fair warning well in advance. We are prepared to defend ourselves against home invasion if necessary. I hope and pray that it will not come to that. Personally, if TSHTF in such a BIG WAY that our darkest fears come true-- We may actually need THEIR help at some point. Five of my neighbors are county and state cops. Some are firemen. A number of them are skilled hunters. Some are skilled craftsmen, electricians, plumbers, mechanics, and engineers. Some are EMTs. Some are nurses. Some own apple orchards. Some are farmers. Some own firewood production facilities. Some are doctors, dentists, and vets. Get the picture? Personally, I do not have all those skills and resources. DO YOU? In addition, I would not want to live in a place where friends and neighbors ran around killing each other over the last crumbs of food. I would also not cling so tightly to my own life that I would avoid sharing some of my stores with those who are dying of hunger or dehydration.

-- Sue Conibear (conibear@gateway.net), January 09, 1999.

If the neighborhood works together (like the "tribes" did over the past many thousands of years) the group is far stronger than the individual.

But without a moral group - where the group as a whole owes its loyalty to the better welfare of all, rather than the selfish "I wanna it now! All to myself!" - that is more common now (as a whole) in our society since the sixties - the individual family may all you can trust.

And as shown in the other post about living arrangements in the country - you may not even really want to live with the family!

One evil member inside a group is a very real, very deadly (perhaps literally, certainly figuratively) threat to a small group under stressful conditions.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), January 09, 1999.