http://cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9812/30/russia.bread/index.html

This CNN article describes how the bank chaos in Russia has changed the market place.

"With a banking system in chaos, the only sure way for Russian producers to get cash for their products is through direct sales. And that is changing the way basic foods in Russia are bought and sold."

"Cutting out the "middle man" brings Russians on foot directly to the milk truck, where bottles are filled by hose. And instead of going to the bread store, pensioners line up at the factory where it's made."

This sounds like some of the Y2K scenario's for the U.S.

MoVe Immediate

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), December 30, 1998

Answers

There have been quite a few 'horror' stories about this in the media. People lined up for stuff, bartering as a way of life. Troops paid with toilet paper, or not at all, for months. I remember one scene about a month ago - a Russian man got into a line, a reporter asked him what the line was for - his response: "I don't know what this line is for, but it does not matter, whatever it is, I need it."

Besides the banking crisis which was caused in part by bad loans and excessive debt, the current problems are also attributable to the ongoing currency turmoil. Remember that their currency was devalued by over 60%, almost overnight, back around September, when they reneged on their international bank payments. Their economy continues to be in shambles, and much of the existing areas of concern are over the ongoing political instability, in addition.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), December 30, 1998.

Crime rate up in Russia.......

http://www.russiatoday.com/rtoday/news/09.html

Violent Crime, Robberies Surge in Russia MOSCOW, Dec. 30, 1998 -- (Agence France Presse) Violent crimes and break ins in Russia have soared and white-collar crime is costing the country billions of dollars, according to the latest Interior Ministry data, Interfax news agency reported Tuesday. One crime in two targeted private property and in half of Russia's regions, the number of home burglaries has risen, Interior Minister Sergei Stepashin said. Assaults on individuals had also increased and the number of extortion cases had jumped 10 percent, he said. Russian authorities had staged a crime-fighting operation named Storm 3, which also focused on economic crimes. Stepashin said 20 percent of all crimes were in the economic or financial domain, and that 6,000 bribery cases had been uncovered. In total, 250,000 economic crimes were recorded this year, costing the country $1 billion, he said. Monday, Prosecutor General Yury Skuratov said economic crime cost Russia $18 billion this year. He added that Russia was the worst country in the world for corruption in government. His department estimated that 50 percent of all commercial banks and 40 percent of state-owned companies were criminally controlled, thus affecting between 40 and 50 percent of Russia's annual gross domestic product. Russia's natural gas, oil and coal sectors had been particularly targeted by organized crime units, he said. ( (c) 1998 Agence France Presse)

-- S.Rathers (srathers@hotmail.com), December 30, 1998.

Whats so bad about a little barter and cutting out the middle man?

All the people looking for a source of grain- corn, wheat, soybeans, ect just need to buy direct from a local grain producer. I have, from Gary Hansen at zz@hamilton.net

I eat down at the local cafe every day in exchange for my skills. My car gets fixed in exchange for my skills. Most of my electrical work gets done in exchange for my skills. I get extra help when needed because I help when someone else needs it, I trade this for that and that for this ect... Barter is Better TJ

-- TJ (trickjames@hotmail.com), December 30, 1998.

Beware TJ: You are now an "undesireable" type since posting on this forum. The IRS considers barter to be reportable income and MSN (hotmail) and/or the host of this forum is bound by law to release your identity if requested by any law enforcement agency. Your IP address is logged when you arrived here and can be traced to the originating IP. The originating IP has a log of which user was through which IP address at any time. And nothing (not even ANONYMIZER) is untraceable on the internet. Your local provider has all your email ever sent and can (99% do) record every URL you visit. Did you know your ISP (or any employee) can, and many do just for kicks, monitor in real time every URL you visit? Did you also know that ALL email is filtered for language that the NSA has determined can fit you to a potential terrorist/hacker/drug dealer/money launderer profile? Who do you think uses those CRAY and NEC supercomputers? (Had you worried there, didn't I? I was only kidding...your government would NEVER do those things. Only countries like the former Soviet Union would such things.) Anyone care to differ with me? Other than that, Happy New Year.

-- Boo! (icu@inyouroom.com), December 30, 1998.

Well, Boo, considering your "Your IP address is logged when you arrived here and can be traced to the originating IP. The originating IP has a log of which user was through which IP address at any time", you have to figure the bell tolls for thee as well.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), December 31, 1998.

Yeah, but Boo wasn't the one talking about unreported gains derived from barter. The point was, "be careful what you say."

-- rocky (rknolls@hotmail.com), December 31, 1998.

We are being shown so many potential Y2K get ready lessons all over the planet, of the natural and unnatural kind.

Russias bartering for basics when banking is lost lessons.

Hurricane Mitch and the importance of the basics like food, shelter, WATER, heat, etc.

San Francisco Blackout, and what happens when the lights go out in a major metropolitan area, and what simple single event can cause such wide disruption.

Icestorms on the East Coast, this year and last year, illustrating the extreme need to be individually prepared and community prepared when the power shuts off for days on end.

Nuclear meltdown scare at a Scottish Nuclear Power plant and the urgent need for working back-ups options and trained staff on duty.

Flooding and hurricane disruptions.

All the natural emergencies will likely happen alongside the unnatural Y2K events as well.

Do you get the feeling something is trying to tell us to prepare? Big uncertainty coming up.

Diane

(What I say anybody can read, and welcome to it!)

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 31, 1998.