Point Leeching - what do you think?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : MAME Action Replay : One Thread

It seems that the topic of Points Leeching received a couple of votes in favor of banishing the practice, and there have been no votes for the other side (of keeping it around).

As it turns out, I have just made a recording that could possibly be considered using a 'Points Leeching' technique... however, in this particular situation, the leeching is just an element used within normal gameplay to enhance my score (i.e., I put myself at risk while earning the extra points).

I was curious how those of you who are against 'Leeching' would find this recording I made for Road Runner. So, please download this recording, check it out, and post your views of this play technique.

Is it leeching?


-- Angry (greggg@ix.netcom.com), December 28, 1998


point leeching (or is that leaching?) :p

Point leeching can have many gray areas. Some techniques, depending on your viewpoint, would qualify as leeching. The ones in Angry's Roadrunner inp come close, but fall short of true leeching for one fact: he had put himself at risk in pursuing a technique that allowed him to "milk" as many points out of a level as possible. Nice demonstration of 2 separate techniques, Angry!

In conclusion, my personal slant on this is...it is definitely point leeching if the player can put himself in a position that has no risk of dying. And that the game can run (with the player scoring) infintely from that "safe" position. Some games run on a timed basis and will force you on to the next level making leeching quite difficult.


-- JoustGod (pinballwiz1@msn.com), December 28, 1998.

Centipede hunting?

Sorry if this might confuse the issue but what about spider/flea hunting in centipede? You (JoustGod) currently hold the records at centipede and are probably familiar with spider hunting (if not, just reply and I'll try to submit an example). This technique effectively reduces one element of the playing field, making it easier to achieve a higher score. The element of risk is definetly still there, because you can't let the spider cross to the other side. I think the same is true for asteroids and ship hunting and Joust and pterydactyl hunting. It was perfectly legal to do so and enter the record books in the early 80s. And they pretty much follow the same example. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the fix for each of those games was in the hardware and only the most current hardware set was used for records and the older scores were left behind?

That's my 25 cents.

-- Randood (rbrown@netboise.com), December 28, 1998.

Bravo Joust God!! :)

Excellent job in defining "point leeching" as we all know it! You hit the nail right on the head. Yea, I was pretty impressed with the extra point method Angry did on Road Runner. I wasn't aware of this and achieved my score by getting as far as I can and picking up as much points at arms reach as I can. An example of Angry's RR recording on picking up extra points, is my Leprechan inp. I put myself at risk a few times and at a few instances, lost a life for doing it. On the other hand, if I could of sat in a corner, and turned turbo on my gamepad and left the game for hours to rack up points, I would probably be kicked from marp! Seriously, that's just not the way I play.

Regards, Steve Krogman

-- Stephen Krogman (skrogman@concentric.net), December 31, 1998.

Point leeching... hmm...

I really haven't played Road Runner before, so I'm not sure how all of the gameplay works. Theoretically, could you avoid Wile E. forever on that first level, earning enough extra lives to make up for whenever you die? It doesn't seem that there's any sort of time limit. However, since you actually advanced and played other areas of the game, I find the leeching somewhat excusable... I dunno, I can't make up my mind on this one. Basically, what I have a problem with is any situation in which you can, in essence, play forever, racking up points doing the same thing over and over and earning extra lives. When the game has a time limit, you're challenged to see how much you can "leech" before you're forced to finish. This I don't have a problem with, or Steve Krogman's Arkanoid example... using all your spare lives to get the highest possible score. As long as you're forced to continue playing the game like normal, it's ok by me...

BTW, congrats Angry and welcome to the 100 first-place scores club. :)


-- BBH (lordbbh@aol.com), December 28, 1998.

re: Point leeching... hmm...

It's not possible to sit forever on a single level... Road Runner has a few factors that force the player to move along; 1) The Seed Meter at the top of the screen will expire if you don't pick up seeds quickly enough; 2) The game screen will eventually scroll, forcing the player to move forward.

Also, the game only awards a limited number of extra lives (the final one being earned at 280,000), from this point forward, the game awards 20,000 bonus points at each bonus level of 100,000. The maximum number of lives on default settings would be 8.

The techniques that I have shown are the same that were used by Mark Haber when he achieved his TG high score on Road Runner. My scores on the arcade version were originally in the 1.1-1.3 Million range, and I was later achieving scores in the 1.8-2 Million range using the scoring techniques shown.

If I can find a worthy analog joystick, I should be able to get into the 1.3 million range again (my MS Sidewinder 3D Pro just doesn't cut it).

Thanks BBH - I'm gaining on you. As I type this, I have a Frenzy game paused at home w/35,000 points and 5 lives - but I'm sure you know how that game goes - it could leave me with nothing.


-- Angry (greggg@ix.netcom.com), December 28, 1998.

point leeching... my bad

ah, so the Seed Meter DOES go down from time? I thought it just went down if tou missed one or something. When it expires, you lose a life, right? I was just wondering if it was possible to earn enough points to get a new one before it expired, but since the bonus value keeps going up I would guess that it's not possible. Like I said, I have a lack of experience in the game... since it does seem to force progress, I think the recording is ok.

And yeah, I know what you mean about Frenzy! I find that if I'm doing really well and then pause it to go get a drink or answer the phone or something, then I end up losing like three lives in a row. :( Once you're "in the zone", you just gotta keep playing and playing!

Best of luck,


-- BBH (lordbbh@aol.com), December 29, 1998.

...didn't even reach 40,000...

I can't believe, that with 5 lives, I couldn't even get to the next extra... my final score was like 38,500.

(I did get the score later though!)


-- Angry (greggg@ix.netcom.com), December 29, 1998.

100k? ARGH!

Damn, that's a great Frenzy score... I'm going to have to attempt to counter that tonight...

...and so our rivalry continues. ;)


-- BBH (lordbbh@aol.com), December 29, 1998.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ