What do you figure the odds are that we will actually be able to accomplish bugging out, if it comes to that?

For those of us who have not relocated, and have bug out plans, this is possibly a life or death issue. Consider that most of us will probably try to get to our bug out location by car. We may have, ahead of time, bought an old vehicle without chips, have a full tank and extra gas, oil, parts, etc. Now think about the traffic system and its embedded non-compliant chips or the possible limit of travel with martial law being declared etc.

How will we even know when to bug out... gut feel?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), December 15, 1998

Answers

Rob, it seems to me that prior to the rollover date, in the 2nd half of 99, watch economic/political situation carefully. Read btwn the lines, so to speak. If things got bad prior to rollover, as some think it could, you will be somewhat prepared to pull up and leave. If things stay steady up to the rollover, you might consider taking a "vacation' during that period in your bugout prior to the actual date. If things don't get real bad, you can come back from your 'vacation' none the worse, if it did get bad, you don't have to worry about getting our to the bugout, martial law, etc. You will already be there.

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), December 15, 1998.

CIO resignations

CEO resignations

Stock market crash

Bank runs

I still don't know if these are a reliable guide, but it's all we have.

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), December 15, 1998.

The big impedance to bugging out after TSHTF can be stated in two words: blocked roads. The military blocking roads out of the cities, and the rural communities banding together and blocking the roads in.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), December 15, 1998.

Somebody in the GN forum months ago gave the answer:

"There are two possible times to bug-out: too early and too late."

*RC

-- runway cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), December 15, 1998.

Read this a LONG time ago. If you are traped in any difficult situation and must make your way out of and urban environment on foot, a way to go is along the RR tracks.

-- curtis schalek (schale1@ibm.net), December 15, 1998.

James Wesley, Rawles has an extensive and highly detailed railroad track (and other locales) "bug out" scenario from Chicago area under worst case conditions in (the full book of) "Triple Ought".

-RC

-- runway cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), December 15, 1998.

That is the question that keeps me awake at night. We've discussed this before on another thread. I've looked everywhere for an answer. There's no more answer to that question than to "what severity on Y2K scale is it going to be?"

I have 9 hour drive to my "bug-out". I have 3 kids, and a husband who is still not worried enough to ask this question.

What I'm doing is stockpiling and "y2k-proofing" both places. I'll keep an eye on the y2k weather, and be ready to bug-out at a couple hours' notice. Wether I can make it out or not, both houses and supplies will be put to good use, since my husband's family is close to my main residence, and mine is close to my bug-out. The lucky unprepared family will get to use whichever we're not.

That's the best I could come up with to alleviate some of my fears regarding this question.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 15, 1998.

Rob,

If martial law is declared, you will quickly find out what the "Federal" in the Federal Highway System means.

Try to pre-position supplies near your BO destination. ( I rented a storage locker to store a lot of my supplies, so they wouldn't be a target to be stolen from my cabin ).

Have a bunch of different routes you can take, that you have scouted. Make sure you factor in the time of year into your plans. Out here in Colorado there are some rather high passes to cross, and there is quite a bit of snow that falls in the winter.

Personally, I am going to have to go for the early bug-out. So, I am saving up vacation time and sick time so I can "gone" from work when things start to look bad. If nothing happens, then at least I will not be at work, and....

My worst day fishing was better that my best day working!

-- John Thyfault (john.thyfault@mci.com), December 15, 1998.

Here is the best advice I've ever seen about "bugging out".

"Many who take Y2K seriously as a threat to our way of life make the mistake of thinking that Cinderella will magically hold together until midnight 12/31/99 and then suddenly all these bad things will happen. But consider this, when it occurs to the investors all over the world that Y2K means the computers running the business they have invested in may go down, Wall Street will drain rapidly. On the heels of this count on a run on the banks. Following this, count on a cry going up to the Federal government to protect everyone and save them from the depression now and enable them to survive Y2K when it comes. When government heeds this call and steps in you can count on a restructuring of society for survival. It would be a good idea to be where you want to live for the next few years within a week of the failure of public confidence. (italics and emphasis mine - Hardliner)Don't confuse in your planning what government can do before Y2K with it's limitations after Y2K. Two different situations will be in effect."

- Joseph Foreman

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), December 15, 1998.

My take is that we will have a creeping deterioration in the social contract. Hindsight governments do not handle creeping deteriorations of anything very well. Local emergency controllers may declare Civil Emergencies then you are stuck where you are.

That advice: take an early vacation may be the best bet. Choose the alternative the outcome of which will affect you least.

-- Bob Barbour (r.barbour@waikato.ac.nz), December 15, 1998.

Thanks for all of the thoughtful answers gang. I hadn't considered the 'vacation' idea. I like it enough to give it some serious thought. Early is obviously the only way to go. Even if the roads aren't blocked, late may mean dead.

Chris: This has also cost me some lost winks, and I agree about having both places Y2K ready. Nothing else makes sense to me... to go through who knows what to get there and then starve or not have supplies...

John: I'm a fishing fool so I really appreciated your remark. LOL and tight lines to you.

Hardliner: I haven't spent much time on that site, your post tells me I may be missing something. (not for long, thanks) Also, the advice and scenario outlined is in many ways similar to what I have found at the Y2Kchaos site.(http://www.Y2Kchaos.com - If you haven't checked that site out you may find it interesting too. Especially relevant and thought provoking are the sections dealing with surviving the 'during and after' Y2K scenarios.

One other thought: I sometimes think of this whole subject as Musical Bug out: (like the childrens musical chair game). Nobody knows when the music is going to stop. My parents are almost next to a city, I'm in the quiet burbs with some small-time agriculture, and the bug out place is a 'no where near a 7-11' out of the way rural area. I can picture my folks coming here first, then us going together to bug out.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), December 15, 1998.

I have 9 hour drive to my "bug-out". I have 3 kids, and a husband...

You're taking them? What are you, nuts? Oh right.

Lotta crazies on this one. Let's segue into guns and ammo. Buckshot or hollow point. For me it depends on the neighbor. Like if I never returned his lawnmower I'll take him out quick. The guy who doesn't clean up after his dog. CROSSBOW; and the dog is a steak dinner. Hope this helps.

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@worldnet.att.net), December 15, 1998.

Here's the plan. Begin taking cash out of the bank now. Take enough to cover one month in the Carribean. Fly out on Dec 15 1999 and plan to stay until Jan 15 2000. If nothing goes wrong (which it probably won't) you've just had a wonderful vacation which you should have taken years ago. If there is chaos, then there's nothing to come home to and begin planning a new life in the Carribean selling key lime pie.

-- maria (anon@ymous.com), December 16, 1998.

Spent a lot of time trying to find an appropriate thread to ask this question on -- this one is closer than most.

Does anybody on the Forum know about the Church Universal And Triumphant site located next to Yellowstone National Park? I *heard* it had/was being sold to the Feds as one of their Bug-Out sites. True? False? It has vast underground bunkers and survivalist accomodations. This article just popped up on Breaking News:

New Age Church Leader Elizabeth Clare Prophet Announces Retirement

CORWIN SPRINGS, Mont. (AP) - Elizabeth Clare Prophet has announced she will retire as spiritual leader of the Church Universal and Triumphant, a New Age sect headquartered on a sprawling ranch next to Yellowstone National Park.

Prophet, diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease in November, said she will retire sometime this summer to deal with health concerns and to spend more time with her family, including a 4-year-old son.

The woman known as ``Mother'' to her followers said she will be 60 in April. She stepped down as church president in 1996.

In the early 1980s, the church founded by Prophet's first husband bought the 28,000-acre Royal Teton Ranch and based its operations there.

A survivalist reputation developed and was reinforced during a court case challenging the church's tax-exempt status. In depositions, church officials acknowledged that in the early 1990s, more than 100 firearms and two armored personnel carriers were stored near a big fallout shelter at the ranch.

But Prophet insisted no church funds were used, and said she was unaware of details of weapons purchases by individual church members. Prophet had been president of the church for 23 years when she left the position in 1996. ....
....
---------------------------------------------------------------
If the Feds haven't bought it, is the church keeping it? Has a wealthy programmer bought it for his/her compound? Primo place to bug-out?

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 02, 1999.

Wrong Leska. Elizabeth Clare Prophet's energy is "twisted."

Once attended one of her workshops. She's one of the smoothest talkers I've ever seen. But the energy coming from her! Yikes. I could only stay in the room a half hour then had to leave pronto. Not good at all. Also have a friend with a family member whu "escaped" from her cult. The stories are not good at all. She is a cult leader with a capitol "C."

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 02, 1999.

Wrong? Those were all questions. Are questions ever wrong? ??
Looking for the latest property update ...


-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 02, 1999.