There has been a recent explosion in awareness in the country/continent. This explosion has become evident on this forum as well as c.s.y2k, and some other fora available. This is to be expected, as we progress. The change in postings is more one of quantity than of relative quality or "forum drift". While I am sensitive to what it takes to be current in just this forum, I am also aware that we have some problem posters. If one goes back over the recent past and then over a slightly further past, one finds that the relative PERCENTAGE of postings which are peripheral to the issue, or tangential to the issue or plain off issue has not changed. The signal to noise ratio has not decreased as much as one might think. We are getting more posts, more questions, etc. It stands to reason that the quantity of noise might increase as the quantity of posts increases.

This is a "problem" of success. The increase in questions is due to the presence of folks who are beginning their journey. We each asked many of the same questions as we became GI's, as we saw things more clearly over time. We have progressed to perhaps a different level? We might want to open another forum? I for one would be diisappointed in the dwellers here if anyone were to initiate a "Master's Class" or "Advanced GI" forum. As a "card carrying" GI, I owe it to the "baby step Gi's" or "newly awakened GI's" to assist them with their steps. It's something about the community we need to build to carry our way of life through the fire, to carry OURSELVES through the fire.

This is not to say that we do not need to see about some changes in how we operate. As a successful forum, perhaps we need to go through the exercise of registering for the forum, with the institution of a password to post system, so that Mr Greenspun can help with the true miscreants who post abusive, objectionable posts; as well as those using other people's names and e-mail addresses.

While I understand that this is the internet and therefor EVERYTHING (including this) needs to be taken with the correct amount of salt, from a grain to a salt lick, we still should be able to have some minimal faith that a post signed "Uncle Deedah (Oncebitten@twice.shy) or "Diane (sacred spaces)" etc were indeed posted by the people who signed them. this is not a request for the abolition of anon. posts, as that would emasculate the forum. It IS a request for an examination of options for protecting people's rightful and propper expectations in ref posting and posters.

Chuck, who drives in Cleveland, but lives here, and welcomes all who behave with decorum to his livingroom

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 14, 1998

Answers

Chuck wrote:

>This is not to say that we do not need to see about some changes in >how we operate. As a successful forum, perhaps we need to go through >the exercise of registering for the forum, with the institution of a >password to post system, so that Mr Greenspun can help with the true >miscreants who post abusive, objectionable posts; as well as those >using other people's names and e-mail addresses.

Good idea Chuck! The simple act of having to register might deter some of the people who simply want to "stoke the flames" as it were.

I wholeheartedly agree with your viewpoint on this. We do need to try and help those who are just now becoming GIs.

Your suggestion is a good one and it has my vote (if I even *get* a vote)! :-)

Bobbi Check out the newly revamped Y2k information site! http://www.buzzbyte.com/

-- Bobbi (volfnat@northweb.com), December 14, 1998.

Chuck: You make a good point about the signal to noise ratio and also the increasing number of newbies and their needs, which at one time were also our needs. I hope that there is broad support for looking into options for protecting people from blatent disruptors and subsequently improving the forum.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), December 14, 1998.

Very good points Chuck. If some of these nasty impersonators were more subtle and didn't use all caps, foul language or other crudities, it would be hard for a newbie to distinguish them from the real mccoy. I wonder if the increase in size and length of posting isn't also related to the fact that winter has now set in hard - not so much to do in the gardens!

-RC

-- runway cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), December 14, 1998.

Chuck,

Suggest you e-mail Phil Greenspun directly and see if its even possible with this system. Hes answered every e-mail I sent him...Philip Greenspun [philg@mit.edu].

BTW, By backing up to the URL root directory (www.greenspun.com), youll discover that this Y2K forum is HOSTED on an MIT computer (a rather large, well-known educational institution), with a lot of other forums and even private ones as well -- its relatively easy to start a new one, however most people will come here.

Also... We are participating in part of a science project.

Free Services for Web Publishers programmed and maintained by Philip Greenspun [philg@mit.edu]; backed by the Xolas cluster of SPARC E5000 machines ... A consortium of faculty at MIT is convinced that clusters of symmetric multiprocessors (SMP's) provide the most promising path to affordable high performance scientific computing.

The Xolas Project is a collaboration between computer scientists and physical scientists to prototype an SMP cluster, and to utilize it for fundamental advances in science and technology. ... The cluster being developed includes 9 8-processor Ultra HPC 5000 SMPs (24 Gflops peak) presently and has been made possible in part by a generous grant from SUN Microsystems Inc. ... Currently, there are several groups in LCS and the School of Science engaged in major projects...

It may not be as easy as you would like to change the system.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 14, 1998.

I've wondered what this forum seems like to people who've just come to it in the last few weeks. Maybe we're tired of talking about heat, water, rice and the GPS rollover--but they aren't.

Whenever we post a message, we should keep in mind that maybe 50% of the people reading it weren't even calling this forum three weeks ago!

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), December 14, 1998.

I'm all for using passwords. Very nicely said Chuck, you made very good points.

Perhaps a system where you have to register your email address and a password with the sysadmin to enter the posting page. Or, entering your registered password is required after clicking on the submit button and only valid passwords would get to have their message posted.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 14, 1998.

Chuck: Well said. I'm for anything that would reduce the signal-to- noise ratio. I stopped visiting for a while when the volume and foolishness got to be too much to keep up with. Wasn't there discussion at one point about designating someone with authority to remove troll posts? Would Greenspun go along with that idea? I wouldn't mind a registration system, since I use my real name and e- address anyway ;), but there should be some provision for Uncle Deedah and others to retain their anonymity. Ideas? Or is that even possible?

-- jdclark (yankeejdc@aol.com), December 14, 1998.

I've got no problem with passwords...my only real concern would be that the folks nearer the paranoid edge of things would get frightened away from the more balanced perspective this board provides as opposed to the "its-all-a-giant-conspiracy-by-[pick your least favorite group of people]" discussions one finds elsewhere on the net.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), December 14, 1998.

Great post Chuck.

We all wanted heightened awareness. Now that we have it, what do we do with it? I like the idea of being tolerant.

Perhaps there is a way that anyone who visits can view a post but in order to actually create a post or answer a post you must have a valid email address and login. Is there a way to register, have a robot response for verification and password confirmation, etc?

Mike ================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), December 14, 1998.

Good ideas here. If registration and password are used, an alias ought to be allowed for posting. Posting in one's own name could have a chilling effect for some, perhaps even a few who otherwise could contribute something worthwhile. Only the webmaster would have access to the I.D.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), December 14, 1998.

I just puchased my 1st computer 2 mos. ago and am still learning how to use it. I am a "newbie" with a capital N! I want to express how thankful I am to have place to go to read the current threads on the latest Y2k happenings. Since I am new, it makes sense to me to read the archives, follow the links, and learn from what has already been posted. I am here to learn, that is all. Please keep the info coming. I think registration is a great idea.

-- Stillgreen Behindmyears (Just Got It @ NB.com), December 14, 1998.

How about using a PGP signature? For those unfamiliar with it, it is a type of cryptography that uses two keys - one public and one private. Using the public key, you can encode anything and know that only the private key can decode it. Conversely, if you encode a message (your signature, for example), using your private key, the public key will decode it. In this case, for example, Uncle Deedah could encode his name using his private key, and if his public key decoded it to 'Uncle Deedah' we'd know it was really him.

-- Ned (entaylor@cloudnet.com), December 14, 1998.

No, I oppose registration.

It makes it harder to post. It would be a nuisance for newbies, driving them off.

What I instead suggest is that people may register their own handles with passwords. To post in their name, then they have to use their password. To post in something else ("veryscared@fear.com" or just "a@a.a") then they can -then anyone can. No password is asked for.

What do you think of that?

-- Leo (leo_champion@hotmail.com), December 14, 1998.

Arlin and Mike, yes there are such programs that check for email/passwords and still let you use an alias. The only drawback to this is that the system administrator of the site does have access to your real email and name. But I don't see a problem with that at all. This is free speech country, and unless you make a death threat, you shouldn't have to worry about anything.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 14, 1998.

I agree with Chris and Mike - the need to register has to be balanced against the perceived need by some (and actual need by a very few) for anonymity - in the end, a policy of allowing posting using a password protected 'handle' which the list owner could associate with a realworld name would keep the dialog flowing while eliminating only the most rampantly paranoid, and (of course) the trolls.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), December 14, 1998.

I like this board because it's easy to post as yourself or as an anon. Please don't change it. I think we know right away when someone comes in and starts trouble and the best thing to do is ignore it.A response is what they're looking for and if you don't give it to them, they'll go somewhere else.

I also like this format where you can scroll down and read all the threads on a subject.I'm still pretty much of a newbie, and if I want to know about oxygen absorbers I'll go to one of the food forums (or here) but this is one of the very few boards where you can get a real 'talk' and opinions on a wider range of topics.

-- sue (deco100@aol.com), December 14, 1998.

Arlin has the concept. register with a protected handle (or 2) and let the sysadmin keep the records. Leo, the problem is that if I change one character in your sig, to, perhaps leo_champion..., or leo,champion.., then I get to use your sig. Not a lot of people are going to notice the change and I have successfully (for a time) impersonated you.

CR

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 15, 1998.

Delurk - and response

>> We all wanted heightened awareness. Now that we have it, what do we do with it? I like the idea of being tolerant.

Perhaps there is a way that anyone who visits can view a post but in order to actually create a post or answer a post you must have a valid email address and login. Is there a way to register, have a robot response for verification and password confirmation, etc?

Mike<<

I use fortunecity for a free website host - they have a message board where you can read any/ and all posts but you have to have a password to actually post messages - perhaps they can check how that is done there, and impliment it here? here is the url to their message board http://www.fortunecity.com/registered/wwwboard/message.boards.html

I think this board is a nice alternative to the newsgroups. Problem is it's hard to find this - I've heard it mentioned dozens of times, but never with a url, I finally found it recently and am only about a 10th of the way through the archived posts. (Time - is not on my side)

Whitney

-- Whitney (Y2K Whit@aol.com), December 20, 1998.