Okay, this point was made and everbody took it as an opportunity to spout off on religion in general...so I'm starting fresh, and asking everyone to stay on topic this time. I don't care what your views on religion are. I don't care if you take the Bible as literal truth, or just good literature, or worthless drivel. I'm simply pointing out an odd synchronicity with a document written several thousand years ago, and asking if it seems as odd to you. The point of the Babel story is not that humans were proud and reaching toward heaven. The point is, "there they are, all working together, speaking the same language. If this keeps up, nothing will be impossible for them. So let's scramble their language." I think it's remarkably prescient for someone that long ago to imagine that nothing would be impossible for humanity. Now, I'm a web programmer. Let me point out a few things that are going on in this field... Computer networking has been around for a while, but it didn't become the Internet until everyone standardized on one protocol. Then, bang, massive societal impact. Common language number one, a very limited one. Computer languages have been around for while, but now suddenly more and more of us are standardizing on Java. This has the potential to turn the entire Internet into one big distributed computer. Common language number two. Every piece of software has always had its own data formats...but now, we're starting to standardize on XML. If you haven't heard of it, XML is about to make HTML obsolete, and make everything that's happened on the web so far look like child's play. XML encodes meaning, instead of just appearance. It will do for data what TCP/IP did for networking. Common language number three. Like Java, it will start hitting its stride right around the year 2000. But you might argue that these aren't real languages, just geeky protocols. Well, turns out the U.N. is developing a real common language. You see, the trouble with automated translation software is that languages are ambiguous if you don't understand the context, which computers can't do. So the U.N. is creating a language, intended only as an internal computer format, with no ambiguities, capable of expressing all the shades of meaning of all languages. What you do is, type something into the software in your own language, let it translate into the U.N. format, then translate it back out. Translating out is easy if you're starting with something unambiguous, so if the output says what you meant, you know it will be translated correctly into all the other languages as well. The format is intended for the web, just encode your website this way and anyone in the world can read it in their own tongue. You can check this out at
http://www.unl.ias.unu.edu/eng/unlhp-e.html. Click over to their project schedule. They hope to have the system working for the languages of most U.N. countries by 2005, and have practical operation of the first twelve in, you guessed it, 2000. And just then, the technology that makes all these things possible is scheduled to go haywire. I'm not the kinda guy who looks for fulfilled prophecies around every corner, and I don't think the Babel story is even meant to be a prophecy...but in my more morbid moments it does give me kind of a funny feeling.

-- Shimrod (none@none.com), December 11, 1998

Answers

Okay, this point was made and everbody took it as an opportunity to spout off on religion in general...so I'm starting fresh, and asking everyone to stay on topic this time. I don't care what your views on religion are. I don't care if you take the Bible as literal truth, or just good literature, or worthless drivel. I'm simply pointing out an odd synchronicity with a document written several thousand years ago, and asking if it seems as odd to you.

The point of the Babel story is not that humans were proud and reaching toward heaven. The point is, "there they are, all working together, speaking the same language. If this keeps up, nothing will be impossible for them. So let's scramble their language."

I think it's remarkably prescient for someone that long ago to imagine that nothing would be impossible for humanity.

Now, I'm a web programmer. Let me point out a few things that are going on in this field...

Computer networking has been around for a while, but it didn't become the Internet until everyone standardized on one protocol. Then, bang, massive societal impact. Common language number one, a very limited one.

Computer languages have been around for while, but now suddenly more and more of us are standardizing on Java. This has the potential to turn the entire Internet into one big distributed computer. Common language number two.

Every piece of software has always had its own data formats...but now, we're starting to standardize on XML. If you haven't heard of it, XML is about to make HTML obsolete, and make everything that's happened on the web so far look like child's play. XML encodes meaning, instead of just appearance. It will do for data what TCP/IP did for networking. Common language number three. Like Java, it will start hitting its stride right around the year 2000.

But you might argue that these aren't real languages, just geeky protocols. Well, turns out the U.N. is developing a real common language. You see, the trouble with automated translation software is that languages are ambiguous if you don't understand the context, which computers can't do. So the U.N. is creating a language, intended only as an internal computer format, with no ambiguities, capable of expressing all the shades of meaning of all languages. What you do is, type something into the software in your own language, let it translate into the U.N. format, then translate it back out. Translating out is easy if you're starting with something unambiguous, so if the output says what you meant, you know it will be translated correctly into all the other languages as well. The format is intended for the web, just encode your website this way and anyone in the world can read it in their own tongue. You can check this out at
www.unl.ias.unu.edu/eng/unlhp-e.html.
Click over to their project schedule. They hope to have the system working for the languages of most U.N. countries by 2005, and have practical operation of the first twelve in, you guessed it, 2000.

And just then, the technology that makes all these things possible is scheduled to go haywire. I'm not the kinda guy who looks for fulfilled prophecies around every corner, and I don't think the Babel story is even meant to be a prophecy...but in my more morbid moments it does give me kind of a funny feeling.

-- Oops, lets make this legible. (none@none.com), December 11, 1998.

"The technology that makes all these things possible is scheduled to go haywire." Perhaps because "the spirit," behind the technology is haywire.

One more time, we have an opportunity to figure out what is important. Humans work, when they remember who they are.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 11, 1998.

Shimrod, are you familiar with the work of Zacharia Sitchin. If not, I suggest you read his works, starting with "The 12th Planet." I started out reading them for entertainment value. After confirming much of this material, I now consider these the most important books I've ever read or am likely to. You might supplement this reading with the more narrowly focused "The Sirius Mystery" by Temple, and "Passport to Magonia" (and others) by Jaques Vallee.

The relevant point is that Sitchen interprets the "tower" in the Babel story as a "spacecraft." Human beings, with a common language, creating a spacecraft. "Let us make a [name] for ourselves" - the word in the original Sumerian version of the myth, translated as "name," is also used to describe the radiant winged vehicles that "the gods" fly around in. Now ponder the fact that on the brink of discovering this universal language, we are also launching a permanent international space-station presence in our planet's orbit.

Charles Fort claimed that we are "someone else's property...like cattle." Certainly the Bible confirms this view, though Fort came to it through exhaustive study of meteorological and other anomalies reported in the popular press, not divine revelation (or contact).

Nearly every culture speaks of "gods," who "come from the sky," with superior technology and revelation. Are you familiar with the "cargo cults" of the pacific islands? During WWII, B52s flew over and happened to drop some cargo on the territory of isolated tribes: chocolate, zippo lighters, clothing. The islanders thought the planes, and later, their occupants, to be divine beings. They initially built large wicker "decoys" of B52s, and sung prayers to them to attract them and their holy manna. Sitchin makes a good case that all our religions are cognate phenomenon. We are dealing with a superior intelligence, which would like us to evolve to a certain point, but no farther. This intelligence is intimately involved in our affairs. This view of higher intelligence is reflected in a gnostic view of the "creator god" as "demiurge" - a kind of prison-warder who imprisons higher dimensional beings (us) in a confusing and spiritually degrading biological form, hindering us from the attainment of our divine birthright.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), December 11, 1998.

E

Far be it for me to correct you but...maybe you meant B-29?

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), December 11, 1998.

E-

Thank You That was my take on the tower of Babel, being a spacecraft, over 20 years ago. I have wondered about that. It seems strange to read someone else's view too. Never read any of Sitchen's books, but I plan now to look for his books. Good thread.....

Reader

-- Reader (Reader@home.com), December 11, 1998.

Oh heck. Probably B29. The cargo plane, not the bomber.

Lots of foot-traffic, too. Soldiers showing up with chocolate bars, ala "Stargate."

Thanks for the correction, Unc.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), December 11, 1998.

B-52's wouldve made WWII a lot shorter!

-- RD. ->H (drherr@erols.com), December 11, 1998.

Zacharia Sitchins books are marvelous!! Check it out on amazon.com. Read the series, several books, and youll re-think what it is you think you know about this planet! He is compellingly through. -- Diane (P.S. This does have Y2K relevance).

The 12th Planet by Zecharia Sitchin, Johanna Spyri

Synopsis Over the years, startling evidence has been unearthed revealing the existence of a superior race of beings who once inhabited our world. These travelers from the stars arrived eons ago, and planted the genetic seed that would ultimately blossom into a remarkable species-- the human being.The product of 30 years of research, this book argues that humanity sprang from extraterrestrial forebears.

The Stairway to Heaven by Zecharia Sitchin

Definitely one of his best -- A reader. The second offering of Sitchin's landmark Earth Chronicles series,this book offers more startling revelations than the initial spark of the "12th Planet".Here,discussed in the same scholarly & well researched way the author is known for,with a personal twist, are musings on the fountain & dates of life,the pharaoh's journey to the afterlife(with stunning ancient drawings to document it),the riddle of the sphinx,the forgeries committed on the pyramids & many more.This book also afforded me a diff. view & a rising interest on Alexander The Great.The faults are the same,including the author's exuberant generalizations, but nevertheless is still a mind-bending & probable life-changing read.

The Wars of Gods and Men by Zecharia Sitchin

Best of the Sitchin's Earth Chronicles Series I've now read ALL of Sitchin's Earth Chronicles series, starting with 12th Planet, and have decided that this is the best of the lot! Especially if you're into the mysteries of the Giza pyramids. Not that I would recommend anyone START with it without reading the others preceding it in the series as they would be at a great loss for background. To do that would leave one with many doubts on where he is coming from and how he has derived a lot of things assumed in this part. I feel that this one is the high-point of the set, giving readers progressing through the series, something to look forward to if they are already bored with the first books in the series.

As always, Mr Sitchin, supports every step of his postulations with multi-sourced, cross-referenced, generally irrefutable evidence from uncorrupted ancient sources. He clearly states when he is making a personal assumption or conjecture, which is not often. Personally, I find his habit (present in most of his works) of misleading the reader temporarily, by following the traditional reasoning process, only to later refute it and explain the truth via his version, somewhat frustrating.

Time-wise, he begins, in this segment, with the earliest recorded times on earth, right up to practically thru the old testament. You'll find out what the Pyramids were used for, who built them, why they were closed off and even who was imprisoned in them. He even gets into who the biblical Abraham really was.

Again, prepare by reading the first two FIRST, but don't miss this one to tie everything together!

The Lost Realms by Zecharia Sitchin

Synopsis Another important piece of the puzzle. Zecharia Sitchin has provided us with important insights into the connections between the ancient civilizations of the Near East and those of the Western Hemisphere. In his usual well-researched but highly readable style, Sitchin suggests credible answers to many of the enigmas that have puzzled more specialized scholars for many years. If you have a vested interest in unreality, avoid this book. But if the standard scholarly theories have left you wondering, "where's the beef"?, read this book to satisfy your hunger. You'll get more out of it if you have already read the earlier volumes of the "Earth Chronicles".

When Time Began by Zecharia Sitchin

Synopsis Offers fascinating evidence that visitors from outer space helped usher in humankind's first New Age of scientific growth and spiritual enlightenment. By the author of The Lost Realms.

Synopsis Why was Stonehenge rebuilt and rearranged between 2100 and 2000 B.C.--and how did its realignment relate to startling occurrences in ancient Sumer during the same period? This is just one of the fascinating puzzles addressed by Sitchin in his latest highly documented, meticulously researched work, making a fascinating case for the involvement of alien intelligence. Original.

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 11, 1998.

The Tower of Babel is a case of misplaced priorities, and so is Y2K. The Tower of Babel isn't a prophecy, but as the old quote goes, "those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it".

We have the technology. Do we know how to use it wisely?

I don't think so.

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), December 11, 1998.

I recall Shimrod as a sophisticated magician of good will. a character developed in a series of novels by Jack Vance. Shimrod invariably triumphs, but undergoes harsh vicissitudes meanwhile. In each such experience he gains competence and strength of will.

Shimrod -- a paradigm for our future.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), December 11, 1998.

Interesting the focus on COMPUTER languages or the exotic UN common language proposal in this and similar threads, while the most obvious Babel parallel has been proceeding under our noses for over 100 years, and for all practical, economic purposes has been complete for some time: the complete dominance of plain old English as the de facto lingua franca of the entire globe.

-RC

-- Runway Cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), December 11, 1998.

Did everyone know that the state of Israel, the tucker automobile, NASCAR, and me (myself and I), were all born 50 years ago in 1948? COINCIDENCE? I think not!

MVI

sorry folks feeling a little silly tonight.

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), December 11, 1998.

Speaking of coincidences, and speaking of disasters, check out this link:

http://pw2.netcom/~larkee/titan.htm

"Titan - The Other Titanic"

Was the 1898 novel a coincidence, a prediction, or an astute judgement of blind faith in technology?

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), December 12, 1998.

"Titan - The Other Titanic"

http://pw2.netcom/~larkee/titan.htm

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), December 12, 1998.

Third time's the charm.

http://pw2.netcom.com/~larkee/titan.htm

The coincidence is spooky!

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), December 12, 1998.

I ask myself, "Why at this time of my life (64ish) am I being introduced to subjects that have been around for years and years, but only now am I hearing about them for the first time?"

One case in point are the books and authors mentioned above in this thread (among many other recent books I have met and have had to read.)

I am not uneducated. My major in college was Philosophy, classical, or the art of thinking. Down through the years I have tried to stay in touch with recent books and authors. Yet, it seems, a whole different dimension is being made available for my consideration. I sometimes think I am still in school, and some great TEACHER is watching me, overseeing my progress in awareness of the greater universe, and making available as is fitting for me other dimensions and knowlege.

Another case in point is a Book recently introduced to me that I must now purchase and read. Some of you may have already heard of it, and if so, I would appreciate your comments: "The URANTIA Book."

The URANTIA Book is said to speak to human's deep spiritual yearnings and satisfies the intellect, fully harmonizing religion, philosophy, and today's science through the fostering of individual spiritual growth and an understanding of the universe which are commensuate with man's intellectual and cultural development. It opens new vistas of time and eternity, new concepts of man's ever asacending adventure....This book of 2,097 pages gives a new, comprehensive, organized record of man's origin, history and destiny.

Never heard of this book, but I intend to buy it and read.

-- Joe (jba@there.com), December 12, 1998.

Joe, just spread your reading around. The URANTIA Book has some validity but there is a lot more out there.

One of the most eye-opening seminars, even trained as a facilitator, I ever took were the Flower Of Life sacred geometry series offered by Drunvalo Melchizadek. He goes way beyond Zecharia Sitchin. (Lot's of FBI types, etc. have sat in on his classes, observing, stone-faced, and come out admiting there's more going on here than meets the mainstream). It's an incredible "history" lesson of this planet. There are videotapes that have made the rounds so to speak, around the globe.

Lot's of side stream knowledge out there. I recommend going to a metaphysical book store or the (shudder about the word) "New Age" section of a major bookstore chain. See what interests you.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 12, 1998.

Yep Kevin, read about that one.

Give me a really superb psychic any day. Not all the baby ones out there, but one of the Master Psychics. They can see into the probable realities of our future selves with laser-like precision. And even they admit we can change our future by our actions. Sometimes just knowing where we are headed, will give us the "nudge" to completely change the outcomes.

Our thoughts and actions CAN change our reality.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 12, 1998.

Untrue! MANY of uS have bEen PRAYING 4 you to shut theHELL up alreaddY but iT donT Work!!

-- lurkin (gg@rr.rrr), December 12, 1998.

Diane

It has been said humans use only 1/10 of their brain. Have you read "A Return to Love" reflections on the principles of A Course in Miracles. Book is by Marianne Williamson.

Reader

-- Reader (Reader@home.com), December 12, 1998.

Aha, another Vance fan! You nailed it, Tom.

Runway Cat has an interesting point on the English language. The difference I guess is that y2k won't scramble people's ability to speak English. But the Internet and global network TV are definitely large factors in teaching people the language...

-- Shimrod (none@yet.com), December 13, 1998.

I seem to remember reading one time that when an Italian pilot lands a plane at an Italian airport, the pilot speaks to the control tower in English. Now that says a lot about English being an international language.

The internet and cell phones have a very "Tower of Babel" flair to them too. It's so easy now to communicate with people from around the globe, or them with you, regardless of whether or not you're near your home telephone.

Ah, Telstar...what hast thou wrought? 8-)

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), December 13, 1998.

And if money talks, you could make a case for the international financial system... :-)

-- Shimrod (shimrod@lycosmail.com), December 13, 1998.

E: been there done that with Vallee. His view of the Visitors as a "control system" by higher intelligence is intriguing, but it stops short of explaining where the Visitors come from. Check out Dr. Jack Sarfatti's post-quantum explanation of reality and consciousness at

http://www.qedcorp.com/book/index.htm

In a nutshell, he and a group of multidisciplined collaborators (Vallee is on his mailing list) have devised a new physics that goes beyond conventional quantum theory and actually predicts such things as remote viewing (RV), ESP and retro-kinesis (RK) (RK is the scientifically "proven" effect (though subtle) of mind over matter. John Walker, founder of Autodesk, Inc. and co-author of AutoCAD software, is heavily involved in RK research and has a page that allows you to conduct a realtime RK experiment over the web at

http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/

The mechanism seems to be that information is being transmitted back in time by ourselves (human race) in the future, via the same type of interaction that gives rise to life itself. It's referred to as "back-action" and has to do with the cytoskeleton present in all living cells. Microtubles in the cytoskeleton are tubes lined with countless protein dimers that are switched into one of two configurations based on the spin of one electron. They act as "nanoswitches" in a quantum computer that is driven by quantum standing waves in the ordered water molecules filling the tubes. They have just recently come up with equations that define how a moment of consciousness is created and are very close to being able to design a conscious computer! It is interesting to note that his physics is closely related to Eastern religions in that intelligence is not something that is restricted to the higher animals, but is present in all life forms.

-- a (a@a.a), December 13, 1998.

In other words, "time" and intelligence, is "one" and at the same time, simultaneous.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 13, 1998.

This is a fascinating discussion.

Has anyone heard of Jose Silva? I have a book of his, The Silva Mind Control Method, and apparently he taught some courses in the fifties-sixties (the book is dated 1967). Basically he begins with meditation and goes on to ESP, locating things; predicting things, and even psychic healing.

His theory is that:

Energy equals matter (E=MC**2).

Brain activity involves energy.

Therefore, thought can influence matter.

Has anyone else heard of this guy?

-- Leo (leo_champion@hotmail.com), December 13, 1998.

Leo,

I've seen the "Silva Mind Control" book before. My problem with the book is that it encourages visualization.

Visualization, IMHO, is the exact opposite of being still, centered, aware and in the moment.

And what should a person visualize about? Who has that kind of understanding?

"Be careful what you ask for. You might just might get it."

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), December 13, 1998.

This is a meeting-point for Drunvalo Melchizedek, Jaques Vallee, and "FBI types" :

http://www.brotherblue.org/

As a wise old swami once told me: "the stupider it looks, the more important it probably is." Never was that more true than in this case.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), December 14, 1998.

E.

You may want to check this out too...

The article:

http://www.metroactive.com/metro/cover/joefirmage1-9849.html

Truth and Consequences

When USWeb replaced company founder Joe Firmage as CEO, two things became clear. One, in the boardrooms of Silicon Valley, you don't get to believe in space aliens. And two, the world isn't ready for anything billed as The Truth, whether it's true or not...

Then go to the web-site at: http://www.thewordistruth.org

Its an adventure waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 14, 1998.