Infomagic, Cory & Y2K Preparation Challenge

Like many of you, I read the recent Infomagic reports on Cory Hamasakis WRP Weather Reports, and was extremely bothered. (See: http://www.kiyoinc.com/current.html -- DC Y2K Weather Report Numbers 100 & 103).

My upset was not with the total gloom and doom meltdown, it was that Infomagic could see nothing but that. In fact, I e-mailed my own challenge to Infomagic and copied Cory. I have yet to hear from Infomagic, but I did just hear from Cory.

MY CHALLENGE:

Ive been posting for a couple months over at the www.yourdon.com bulletin board forum. Im about two months old on the Y2K learning curve, but even I get that it cant all be fixed. However, looking at the bigger picture, there still IS time for some additional damage control so we dont lose as many people as we have the potential of doing on a global scale.

Infomagic said, It makes sense to prepare. It is sheer folly to ignore Y2K and those who do so will be numbered among the dead. The sensible question is not whether to prepare but how to prepare and for what. The remaining articles in this series will cover the how, for the moment I am concerned with the what ... It makes the most sense to prepare for this worst case scenario. If you prepare for anything less, and I am right, you will not be prepared at all and you, too, will be numbered among the dead. Granted we really need to prepare. Problem is I see a helluva lot of people ONLY preparing themselves and not those around them, muchless their communities. Can you please, in your future posts, also encourage people not to just follow short-term thinking, but also think longer term?

Lets even get radical here. Trash the damn computers, every single one! What do you have left? A lot of people, thats what. THE PROBLEM is NOT just the computers! The problem is How do we help all, or most, of those 6 Billion people, worldwide, survive without a complex technological structure in place? We have just over one year, with the lights on, to figure that one out. All other remediation and testing and Y2K bug fixing is simultaneous as we rush onward to 2000. What IS also important is all those people, not just the heavy metal. I hope you see that one Infomagic.

Remember the tactic of becoming a really good debater? In order to do so, you had to switch viewpoints and argue the other side? While this is not precisely the other side of the issue, and since you see a bigger picture beyond Charlottes Web, I challenge you to address the aforementioned question:

How do we help those 6 Billion people, worldwide, survive beyond 2000 without a complex technological structure in place? Starting now.

Also the answer "We can't" just isn't good enough. Think again, and clobber your noggin for some solutions. Brain storm. Anything goes. Get creative! Get wild Please, like an Albert Einstein, think outside the box on this one.

Sincerely, Diane J. Squire, Silicon Valley, CA *Just call me a Pocahontas, not a Pollyanna*

CORY HAMASAKIS RESPONSE:

Diane,

These are good ideas. Here's an offer for you. Write one page or a series on how to do this and I will run it in a future WRP.

Don't expect Infomagic or me to solve this mess. We have carved out our own niches and are doing what we can.

Some possible models for community preparation are The Cassandra Project, The Joseph Project, the efforts at the http://www.novay2k.org

The Anne Arundel Y2K group had 250 attendees at their meeting.

I believe that over 100,000 people read the WRPs including some very influential players.

So the ball is back in your court, knock it around with your people at www.yourdon.com, put together a plan or list of recommendations and I'll run it in a future WRP.

Cory Hamasaki * * ' * * ' * * ' * * ' * * ' * * ' * * '

So team, Ive asked Cory to give me a week.

I now ask the Youdon posters, to give me your best links, your thoughts and ideas on...

How do we help those 6 Billion people, worldwide, survive beyond 2000 without a complex technological structure in place? Starting now.

Thanks, Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 09, 1998

Answers

Diane,

How about...for every dollar that the large corporations put into repairs, they match that amount for public awareness, assistance, preparations, food, etc.,...especially for those who are unable to afford the neccessary survival items. Perhaps they could begin some community co-ops and "victory" gardens...distribute port-o-cans around the neighborhoods...and maybe install rain collection systems for community use. The old villages used to have a large central community wood burning oven to bake their bread (the different markings on the tops of the loaves was like a trademark to distinguish who's bread was who's).

Texas Terri

-- Texas Terri (TYSYM@AOL.com), December 09, 1998.

Hey I've got it Diane! SOCIALISM!

(don't worry guys...I'll be on a different kick tomorrow...)

-- a (a@a.a), December 09, 1998.

It's not my problem. My responsibility is to *my* wife and *my* kids. God has not given me control over the next 5.99999 Billion citizens.

-- Jeffrey G. Bane (brooksbane@msn.com), December 09, 1998.

on the serious side, Diane and Terri....if I can only convince 1 out of 100 people, right now, to just buy some rice and beans, what chance do I have of getting them to form bread communes? (not a flame-serious question)

-- a (a@a.a), December 09, 1998.

Diane, good challenge!

I guess the point is to pick the battles wisely. Most people view this event as unlikely, minimal, extremist, you know the rest.

First, get the word out to people that preparation in one form or another is necessary. Don't claim TEOTWAWKI or likewise. Rather, begin with what they already choose to hear. There may be inconveniences. Prepare for them. Let this soak in and then reinforce with more in-depth planning. Don't talk about bank runs, martial law, hoarding amunition, etc.

Second, address the basics required for life. Water, food, heat(+/-), health. Disseminate information regarding these to the masses. Help them/guide them to prepare for these necessities. Yes, tell them how to prepare for 3-4 weeks of inconvenience. Will that be enough, who knows? But at least people might accept that as opposed to trying to convince them to prepare for 1-2 years.

-- lparks (lparks@eurekanet.com), December 09, 1998.

If we cannot educate 6 billion people on birth control, veneral disease, drug and alcohol abuse, child abuse, every friggin abuse you can think of, how in the hell am I going to convince a simple minded person that if you don't stock up on food, water, and seeds, your going to die? We've lost the war on drugs, we have 6 generations of welfare, an AIDS epidemic, birth control that's out of control, violence, over filled prisons, thousands of rest homes where families dump their loved ones because they don't have TIME to care for them. People are going to die because of ignorance, limited resources and money. You said yourself in another post, money? what is money? It takes money, and resources. And just like those families that dump their elderly on others to care for, try educating them to take care of their own responsibilities. I am responsibile for my family first and that's all that is required of me. Cory was dumping it all back on you. He's not the Saviour of mankind. He sounds the warning, gives the facts and either you take advantage of the information or you don't. There's limited food stock available. A store restocks its shelves every 3 days. Ever looked in their backroom and see how much warehouse they have available for storage? Where's the food production going to come from to stock a warehouse for 6 billion people for 1 year or more? I've asked this question many times but no one has ever given me an answer.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 09, 1998.

hey, I've got it bardou! STARVATION!

(ok...last post to this thread..promise)

-- a (a@a.a), December 09, 1998.

Diane:

Somewhere out on this forum, I'm beginning to think it may have been posted by yourself or Leska, is a site about a national meeting on or about the last weekend in Nov or the first one in Dec with a followup on satelite........ or some such not nonsense. we need to see where this effort got to, and whether it actually has started. (It included funding locally, starting local prep teams, etc.)

More positive suggestions::

1) Power, Water, Phone, Gas bills with DETAILED recommendations for minimum preps of 2 weeks, issued in February (the earliest they could POSSIBLY et 'em out). Even send the same ones in each bill!.

2) Editorials on the front page of every print entity in the country on January 30 and 31,February 27, and 28, March 14 and 15, and 28 and 29; detailing the steps a prudent person (NOT Paul Milne, or Cory, or you or I, but a semi pollyanna, Partial GI) would take to be comfortable for 2 weeks. I know, Sat, Sun,Sat, sun, Sun, Mon, Sat, Sun. We are trying to maximize exposure and reading time, and I just thought the Ides of March fit kinda nice.

These atricles should be 25 words or less on what the bug is, 50 words or less on some of the expected dislocations, and 8 or 10 collumn inches on the PRUDENT preparations. Again, NOT a scare story, just prudence.

3) Mobilisation of neighborhood block watches to help preps in the 'hood.

4) if none of this rational stuff can fly, then we need to become irrational, do a pole sit until polls show that the sleeple have awakened. Requisite polls being the sales of storable food.

5) Organized sit in at White House until the First Prevaricator and or the First Accomplice come clean on National TV during Prime Time on ALL networks.

4 or 5 are designed to start the food runs NOW, while the Lights are on, and the refineries are making Deisel, and the farms are producing and can ship, and the infrastructure can handle the runs, and the only intervention needed is to direct traffic in and outside of the stores.

(In generating the runs, we ned to find a way for the WIC and Food Stamp programs to issue special PREP COUPONS, so that the liberals cannot claim bias against the poor, and start the rationing early!!)

PLEASE DON'T ASK ME HOW TO IMPLEMENT ANY OF THIS STUFF!!! I AIN'T A DETAIL GUY!!!! I JUST DO BIG PICTURE STUFF!!!!

(anybody who truly knows me is now ROFLing so hard they have wet themselves but it's true, I can FAKE a detail guy's work, but .......)

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 09, 1998.

Sorry, Diane, but it just ain't gonna happen. I am very, very sorry for all those 6 Billion folks but I am attempting to be a "do gooder" at my house and if I am lucky I will help some family, friends, and neighbors. IMHO what you suggest is an "exercise in futility".

-- red (okie-redneck@webtv.net), December 09, 1998.

"a" [abbreviation for what, I wonder?] checks in with "Starvation".

Whether or not "a" is serious, I don't know. In any case it doesn't work. We're trying it in North Korea as we speak. For several years now starvation has been on beta test in the Sudan, in Somalia, in Ethiopia; Stalin tried it in the Ukraine in the early 1930's, England tried it in Ireland in the 1840's-- but world population keeps on growing.

The Geography of Hunger, by Josue de Castro, shows that when protein intake falls below a certain threshold level, a particular section of the adrenal gland atrophies. In normal function, the output of this particular section of the adrenals reduces male fertility. A diets extremely low in protein, typical in a time of starvation, therefore cause an increase in fertility and a corresponding increase in births. De Castro speculated that this induces the surviving population to migrate in search of a better food supply, ensuring their survival.

"Famine is the ultimate public health catastrophe. It is unfortunately a recurrent human phenomenon, even in modern times. Since the end of World War II, there has not been one year in which there was not a famine" (Field, J.O. (ed.), 1993: The Challenge of Famine: Recent Experience, Lessons Learned. Hartford, Conn., Kumarian Press, Inc.)

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), December 09, 1998.

Many of which were unfortunately aided and abetted by AID shipments of grain, which did NOTHING to help the development of increased productive capacities for grain in country, and only assisted in the perception that stoickpiling might be an economicly apropo activity, pushing the cycle back around, much faster. c

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 09, 1998.

RE: How do we help those 6 Billion people, worldwide, survive beyond 2000 without a complex technological structure in place? Starting now.

Wow; Diane, you didn't make this easy!!! But, here goes. Perry Arnett.

1) identify and define the problem: i.e. what effects are we trying to mitigate?

food shortages? power outages? transportation stoppages? etc. ...

2) gather the facts ; i.e. -

what will happen? when? why? where? how? etc. ...

3) interpret the facts:

what effects are important, which are not? which results are important, which are not?

4) evaluate the alternatives : i.e. -

if "xxx" won't work, what else can we do to achieve the same results?

define what results would constitute task completion or mitigation? - i.e.

feeding how many people how many calories per day of what type for how long, etc. ...

5) select the best solution(s): list:

6) implement the decision(s) :

a) rank the desired goals by priority...

1) 2) 3) ...

b) break up the problem into chewable [do-able] parts - i.e. how many of the "6 Billion" will not, or may not be, affected by y2k events? - i.e.

what part of the world currently lives an existence that may be defined as 'post-y2k', and which may not require mitigation?

what number remains? - i.e. NOW, how big is the problem?

etc.

c) devise a plan :

goals. means. methods. tasks. time line. resources. etc. ...

d) determine who is going to execute the plan?

leadership. roles. duties. responsibilities. compensations. authorities. etc. ...

e) implement the plan.

7) monitor the results and evaluate the effects.

8) repeat and modify till correct. . 9) keep your chin up.

10) ask for help.

11 don't give up.

Holler if I can help further, Perry.

-- Perry Arnett (pjarnett@pdqnet.net), December 10, 1998.

I think I'm overwhelmed by the number. 6 billion. I'd like to help, but right now I'm fighting to just help myself get prepared, as E. said, first I have to help myself before I can help others. I think that my part is fighting for my family's sake, then I won't be a hindrance to the rest of society. I'm just a little woman...the world is heavy. Maybe Lester could help more, ask him.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 10, 1998.

How do you reach 6 BILYUN people? Without technology?

Bypass the middlemen; go straight to the top.

Pray.

-- Elbow Grease (Elbow_Grease@AutoShop.com), December 10, 1998.

Hhhhmmmm. Other groups have tried radical measures when getting desperate to get their messages across. It hasn't helped. Visions, miracles, kidnappings, ransoming, hostage-taking, bombing, mailing, advertising: these didn't have the desired effect. We need to try something peaceful and NEW. Who knows enough history to know what propells something into mass consciousness quickly and stickively? Seems like even the mass miracles take years to be acknowledged. What makes a fad fly? Who is a trend expert?

Diane, you already have a good idea about reaching ppl thru the media and 'talent' stars. However, we need something bigger and faster to reach 6 Billion ppl. What about the biblical story about the dreams, and 7 years of plenty followed by 7 years of famine? What did that ruler do to get his ppl ready, and how long a lead time did he have? What's the wake-up call that will be heard 'round the world?

Gotta think about this one more. Historians, now come out & shine!

Ashton & Leska in Cascadia, who don't know why exactly they realize the perils of Y2K, but who know enough to prepare

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 10, 1998.

Along the lines of
Let's Help Diane Get The Word Out Thru The Stars:

http://www.detnews.com/1998/nation/9812/09/12090182.htm

Barbra Fears Y2K, Cancels Concert

Barbra Streisand reportedly is afraid of getting bitten by the Y2K bug. The New York Daily News says that Streisand has decided not to perform at New York's Madison Square Garden on New Year's Eve 1999 -- partially because of concerns about how computers will handle the switch to the year 2000. Quoting Streisand sources, the News said she may go for a millennium concert at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas -- where she performed twice in in 1994 -- because "the room is more familiar to her and it's closer to her home in Los Angeles." Streisand wants to do "as little traveling as possible" around the millennium change because "she has a lot of fear" about what the Y2K change will do to computers. The News said the Rolling Stones might now take the New Year's Eve 1999 date in the Garden.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 10, 1998.

LParks: Are you saying don't tell people what could happen if Y2K were to hit hard? Tell people to only store up 3 weeks of food and don't worry about anything after that? Don't clue them in on bank runs, martial law, and hoarding ammo? That's like passing out condoms and not telling people what they're used for! See that's the problem we have in this world, only tell 1/10 of the truth and wing the rest of it! Preparation takes money. Where is a welfare receipient going to get enough money together to buy 3 weeks worth of food? How are you going to educate them to buy food that is nutritional? I don't have to explain that part to anyone, we've all witnessed the carts full of Cocoa Puffs, hot dogs, and potato chips paid for by our tax dollars, and the 3 shoeless kids in tow and another one on the way? How do we educate these people and millions other like them. We are educated and our standard of living is so far above these people. The fact of the matter is they don't give a rats ass about Y2K because they don't care! Thousands in third world countries get by on just a days worth of food, and we're going to educate them??????

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 10, 1998.

Diane:

You don't get it!

First, you have to answer the question to MY satisfaction as to WHY I should give one little cr*p about 6,000,000,000 ciphers?

And do it without appeals to religion and altruism.

6,000,000,000 x 0 = 0

Just because some entity is presently sucking air, I'm supposed to be concerned about it?

Numero Uno

-- Numero Uno (numerouno@hardlin.com), December 10, 1998.

the best place in my opinion is AWAKENING - The Upside of Y2K at www.co-intelligence.org

see also www.igc.org/icc370/y2k.htm (environmental impacts - my site)

-- Mark Robinowitz (mrobinowitz@igc.org), December 10, 1998.

Aside note, Kevin,

Youre mentioned in Corys latest DC Y2K Weather Report Number 104.

http://www.kiyoinc.com/WRP104.HTM

Enterprise -- Watch for Jo Anne --

Jo Anne Slaven sent me this list of companies with Fiscal Years that end on January 31s. For their accounting systems, the year 2000 starts February 1, 1999. Jo Anne reports that the original research was done by "Kevin"; everyone, send a big thanks to "Kevin" out there in cyberspace...

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 10, 1998.

BArbara Streisand cancels concert - who says there's no upside to this y2k thing.

-- humptydumpty - as in "all the kings horses + men couldn't..etc" (123@123.com), December 10, 1998.

Look, I don't like saying this but I guess I may have to:

Not all of those people are going to survive. Not all of them even deserve to.

Bardou, those welfare slobs you described -we have them in Sydney, too. I was accosted by a pair of them today, who demanded money. One of them had a bottle of wine. The other was trying to conceal a box of Coco Pops with one hand, while the other pushed at me demanding cash. I didn't give them a cent, of course. Told them to **** off. They got abusive. I told them I was *never* going to give them anything now.

Anyway. Those slobs don't deserve to live. Hate to say this, but their deaths -of starvation or disease or, if they're lucky, violence- will be good. Good for the world.

I don't know how much Western money is helping the 3rd World. Hopefully not much. Because that means they'll be able to survive on their own.

IMO, the average lazy DGI suburbanite..doesn't deserve to die, but it wouldn't be a tremendous loss if they did.

--Leo

-- Leo (leo_champion@hotmail.com), December 10, 1998.

Diane,

The only way you are really going to be able to make a difference is to get the US GOVT to stop denying that Y2k is a big deal. If they start admitting there is a problem and then begin to take solid action to be prepared for it(and to help the average american citizen to prepare. The example set by the Govt will hit the media and since most of the world seems to get their intelligence info via CNN, if CNN reports that the US Govt is concerned about the possible loss of life due to Y2k and is doing something concrete to help the american public to survive it, then the phones at the White House should start ringing off the hook.

The best way to lead a group is by example. With the example the US is providing right now, we couldn't lead a group of pull toys even if the tether was tied around our waist.

-- Ex-cop (excop@police.com), December 10, 1998.

Weather Report 104? My 15 seconds of fame has finally arrived!

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), December 10, 1998.

To Diane: How about a national/global Volunteer registry dedicated to harnessing the skills, resources and dedication of individuals who want to make a difference beyond their own, immediate needs. Yes, we must all start at home, but then, after that, there is a greater need that compells many of us to want to reach out. We see that helping each other moves us all in the right direction. We are only parts of the whole.

This Volunteer registry could be organized by categories, such as health and emergency services, transportation, communications, food banks, etc.

Some people might only "volunteer" some of their $$$, or whatever resource they could make available.

Perhaps there would be no need to have a martial law takeover if individuals are allowed to contribute in an organized fashion.

Hey, I've got it... why not route some of the funds from all of this Monicagate/impeachment nonsense to this Volunteer registry?

As Judy Tenuta says, "It could happen..."

To Mark: I love the definition of Koyaanisquatsi on your website. I also loved a short film by the same title... busy with the madness of lights, energy, motion, frantic pace of life. Koyaanisqatsi really captures the state of life we are experiencing now, during this transition/transformation:

"KOYAANISQATSI ko.yaa.nis.qatsi (from the Hopi Language) n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life out of balance. 4. life disintegrating. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living." In fact, i applaud you for your website in its entirety.

We have to add K. to our post-y2k lexicon. The spelling is a killer, though.

-- Sara Nealy (saran@ptd.net), December 10, 1998.

Dear Diane,

We can't feed the starving people in the United States NOW. What makes you think you can save the world?

Take care of your families. All those countries with their hands out to the U.S. are in for a day of reckoning. Thank you Lord for giving me a place to run and hide from it all, and the ability to prepare myself and my family.

-- Anti-Chainsaw (Tree@hugger.com), December 10, 1998.

Diane -

I think there needs to be some big, public publicity stunt... Don't know what or where, but something that gets on TV... Something fun, but serious... Something that will make the sheeple laugh and think...

Then, following that, there needs to be something like a March on Washington. I think April 1, 1999 would be the perfect time for something like that...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), December 10, 1998.

PShannon: A march on Washington for what? Did Calypso Louie make a difference (the million man march)? And that other religious group of men a few months back (they were so important that I can't even remember what they called themselves), did they make a difference? What a joke! All these walk-a-thons to cure this and that. Name me one thing that walking your ass off and your money has cured? Just name me one disease, one cause! Truth, let's have the truth. Tell it like it is. The truth hurts doesn't it? The fact of the matter is, people have become immune to disasters and warnings of impending danger. We all complain about the news media and don't think for one minute that they will give you what you want. They'll still misinform, sensationalize, brainwash, and tease with their blather. I've been there with the volunteering and saw how it all works. Spent time away from my family in a shelter to help with flood victims. People bitched about the food (they got tired of eating hot dogs). They clogged up the toilets, smeared shit all over the walls, pissed on the floors, and threw their garbage on the floor. There were fist fights and drug and alcohol abuse going on. They were obnoxious and ungrateful for helping them. They acted like you were there to wait on them and you owed them! Well we don't owe anything to anyone except our own families. By the way, my neighbor came over last night and out of the blue started talking about Y2K and how they were storing up water and food. She's was a bleeding heart liberal until she saw the light. It's funny how impending disaster can change a few minds, but not everyone.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 10, 1998.

Here's the "truth", bardou:

Marches and walkathons and gatherings of people don't cure diseases or stop injustices in their tracks. But they don't hurt either. They can be fun events to attend (and there's nothing wrong with having a little fun, is there? I mean, even if you're a victim of a deadly epidemic...) they can serve to raise awareness, turn up the heat, ratchet up the dialogue, they can bring together like-minded people face to face. People dealing with an issue in isolation can deal with that issue, even if for a brief moment, in community.

WE are not going to be able to do anything to ensure the safety of all six billion people on this planet. In a medium-worst case scenario, many people will die prematurely. But if you as an individual and we as a commuity have the time and energy and interest, isn't it worth it if we can help a few hundred?

You mentioned "Calypso Louie" (that's pretty funny...) and the Million Man March. Yes I do think that made a difference. I live in NYC and know a number of men who attended that. And Farrakkkon's rhetoric and agenda aside, I think a number of those men would count that as one of the turning points in their lives. Participating in community like that made some feel that they are not alone in this world, not alone in the problems they have, not alone in the feelings that they have. That's the way I felt after I "Got It" and discovered this forum and the people on it. I've never met any of you face to face, but I feel your support.

Nothin' wrong with that...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), December 10, 1998.

Friends, perhaps I read this all to fast, but I havent seen mention of FARMERS anywhere. Food doesnt originate with general mills. Some guy or gal sticks some seeds in the ground or feeds livestock someplace.

If you are concerned about the world starving, concentrate awareness efforts on farmers.

Oh, and good luck with that.

I live rural and after months of work have managed to convince two farmers (and one was my father) that they need to plan to do things differently in 2000. Understand neither are actually (to my knowledge) doing anything different though.

The different things they have to do are almost impossible for them to grasp. It takes turning everything they know inside out, and throwing out everything that has made them in any way successful.

Here is a short list.

1) Prepare to plant crops that are directly edible by people. Much of agriculture grows feed for livestock. Instead of normal feed corn, flour corn, meal corn and popcorn should be planted. Soybean that are palatable to people instead of aimed at oil production of livestock feed should be grown.

2) Plan for the possibility of only planting what can be worked by hand. Most look at you and go WHAT!!!?? With abundant fuel you can work a thousand acres. No fuel, about ten is max. There may be abundant hand labor available. The farmer that ones 20 hoes and shovels may be considered much wealthier than the one with a large four wheel drive John Deer and no fuel.

3) In 1999, stockpile everything you would normally buy for your 2000 planting and harvesting. I mean everything. Seeds, fertilizer, pesticide, fuel, spare parts. The few that have the financial ability to do this will only be able to do it for a few hundreds of acres, not the thousands they may be farming.

4) Think local. Plant what can be used by you immediate neighborhood, town and county. Dont count on being able to ship anything more than an hours drive down the road.

5) Plant non-hybrids. Yes you will have disease problems. Yes you will have less uniform looking fields. Yes you will have much smaller yields. But you will have some seed to plant in the spring of 2001.

6) Plant crops with some drought resistance. There may not be enough fuel to run that big irrigation system

7) In 1999, put up large amounts of hay, forage materials, silage to feed livestock. Feeding livestock grain might be considered extremely wasteful, if not immoral or illegal.

And everyone reading this, if you have any space, put in a garden big enough to feed five other families (about a 1/2 acre). Every church needs to plow up theyre well manicured lawns and plant gardens this coming spring. I know of one local church planning to do that.

If every farmer does the above, we will still have massive starvation, since technology and readily available fuel, fertilizer and pesticides have made it possible to come close to feeding the worlds population. My best guess is that food production in American will be 1/10 what it is now in 00. Thats my optimistic guess.

Let me repeat.-- if you know a farmer, give them a call and send them a copy of Timebomb 2000 today. You Y2K GIs, consider a post 00 career in small agriculture. And acquire the tools needs. It may be the only job that matters.

-- Timothy (trebman@megavision.com), December 10, 1998.

People on this forum are all aware of impending disasters, diseases, etc. My question still has not been answered, and that is "name me one march that has cured a disease and changed a cause." There isn't one night that goes by on some news program where cancer, famine, Y2K, the homeless, etc. has not been mentioned. I haven't seen the difference. I've only heard that Louis Farrakon was going to have a march every year. Haven't seen it happen. While it may have been a moving experience for some at the present moment, has it changed life in the black community? Has it gotten every man and woman off welfare? Has it changed the out-of-wedlock birth rate? Has it changed violence and drug abuse in the black community? I wish Louis Farrakon could change things in the black community and Billy Graham change things in the white community, we each have the same problems. I would like to see racism be a thing of the past. So what is stopping it? It certainly isn't community awareness, it is changing the minds of people. I have better things to do with my time than wasting it on marching for something that isn't going to change no way and no how. Dealing with the issues is not the same as solving them.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 10, 1998.

bardou:

1963 March on Washington

Martin Luther King's famous "I Have a Dream" speech

Also, numerous examples during the Viet Nam war

-- Buddy (DC) (buddy@bellatlantic.net), December 10, 1998.

Once the Feds give local law enforcement the grenade launchers and M-16's, you should be able to take care of the 6 billion quite handily. (see related topic) Sorry...Y2K and work have left me feeling overwhelmed and cynical today.

-- me (you'llhearmorefromme@later.com), December 10, 1998.

bardou sez,

" My question still has not been answered, and that is "name me one march that has cured a disease and changed a cause.".....Dealing with the issues is not the same as solving them. "

But...is that the most relevant question to be asking?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and agree with you that there has never been a problem solved by a march or Walk-a-thon. Social problems are shifting things, diseases are cured by science. However, if there is an epidemic, and a walk-a-thon raises awareness of the causes of that disease, and then an individual is armed with more information to prevent themselves from getting that disease, isn't that one small step towards lessening the effects of that problem? If a million men get together in one place (well...a couple hundred thousand, maybe) and three of them go back home and begin community centers for the local kids, isn't that one small step in a positive direction? I don't think this is wasted energy.

Problems are not solved easily, if ever. And if that's the case, isn't it important for us as individuals to deal with them?

I'm not going to solve Y2K, but I am going to deal with it. By preparing. By alerting others. If I can't solve it, does that mean that I should ignore it? If I were to gather a hundred thousand people at the Washington Monument do deal with it together, it would not solve it, but it might get on the "news" in a way so as to inform another twenty people so that they can deal with it by preparing and alerting others.

And so it goes...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), December 10, 1998.

Diane-

Too bad its not 1993, instead of December 1998. Its too late for anyone to do anything other than prepare for themselves and their families, with hopefully the ability to maybe help another when the time comes. But just as Cory declared 500 Days Until 1/1/2000 as the break-off point for Big Business and Government to fix their systems, so it is that we have well passed the date by which anything that you are suggesting is feasible. It is a useless exercise in futility.

If you want to do the best that you can do for what is coming, then 1) make sure that you and yours will be prepared; 2) encourage others that you care about to likewise prepare. But make no mistake about it: the ship is sinking, and there are only a few lifeboats. (And, a la Infomagic, even they might stay afloat for only a little while....) Ultimately, people will either figure this out or have it figured out for them.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), December 10, 1998.

BARDOU: I would love to agree with you that there has not been a march, sit in, etc that has cured a disease. Unfortunately, our goal is not curing a disease. Our goal is to change an awareness level. i DO know of a number of different events which have changed awareness levels.

AND I STILL SAY A POLESIT would work!! It just has to be a high pole and promoted like the polesits in the 40's!!!

Think about it!!!

Chuck

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 10, 1998.

Jack,

While I agree that the ship is sinking and there ain't enough lifeboats, and while I do believe that Diane is pleasantly deluded in a sweet new age way (she believes that we can vote on the outcome of Y2K) I don't think that trying to do something to alert others is an exercise in futility. One more person in the lifeboat (someone who previously did not "get it" who may "get it" because of something you may say) is one more person saved from drowning...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), December 10, 1998.

I believe it is simply impossible for the following to co-occur/ co-exist on planet earth:

(a) 6 billion+ people (b) low-tech, sustainable, yet comfortable lifestyles (c) freedoms of the type supposedly guaranteed in the US constitution

One or more of the above HAS to give.

-BH

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), December 10, 1998.

Ex-cop, yes CNN, is the only one that has the global reach. Still think the newsmedia is key to awareness shift.

Anti-Chainsaw, we CAN feed the starving people in the United States and the rest of the world NOW, and can help them learn to grow their own. As a planet we have CHOOSEN not to make that a priority.

I dont think we can save the world. They each have to choose to save themselves. What we CAN DO is make them aware of Y2K, encourage the local and national and international newsmedia to show individuals and communities how to prepare for the incoming, simultaneous, national and global-wide Y2K hurricanes.

Many good ideas here. Thanks. Keep em coming.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 10, 1998.

I agree with Timothy above that one major key to a tempered aftermath of Y2K is the local farmer. For those of you who are living in the country now, please consider doing this:

Find a cheap 300 gallon tank at an auction or in the local ad paper. Fill it with diesel fuel and proper preservative (should cost you no more than $350, total). Then give/sell/barter that fuel to a local farmer in the spring of 2000 so that he can get his crops in the ground (heck, negotiate for 50% of the crop, if that's your style). Hopefully between what he has in his tanks and what you can provide he can both plant and harvest that crop and many more people can eat during the winter of 2000. I've got that full tank sitting in my machine shed right now.

And, as Timothy suggested, I'm planning to go into small-scale agriculture. My family and my neighbors will eat, at least. No reason a suburbanite can't do the same.

Is that enough for you, Diane?

BTW: Suburbanites can start raising rabbits in their garage right now, zoning laws be damned. A buck and two does will provide you with meat year-round. We're getting ours this weekend.

-- Franklin Journier (ready4y2k@yahoo.com), December 10, 1998.

Where is Jonas Salk when you need him....Again!

Convince one humanitarian, philantropist, scientist, scholar that the TEOTWAWKI is approaching. Candidate must have charisma, media appeal and mass recognition with neither political nor corporate ties. Or a consortium of candidates meeting the above requirements in aggregate.

Candidate(s) must also have proven track record of performing impossible feats against insurmountable odds.

MVI

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), December 10, 1998.

What we need is a public awareness campaign, with TV ads running in all markets. I do not know who would pay for it all, but maybe the celebrities would donate their time. Here are a few ideas that I had, thanks to Bobbi for the inspiration.

"Got ammo?"

It will feature famous celebrities who have blown off their upper lips in terrible reloading accidents.

"Got food?"

This one will feature Calista Flockhart, Tracy Gold, and other famous anorexics looking around with hungry eyes.

"Got power?"

Featuring 'Sparky' the talking Fl. electric chair who will warn us about the possibility that prison doors may fail 'open'. "Sleep tight folks, we're open 24hrs now" he will say.

I know its not much of a start, are there any other ads that you can come up with?

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), December 10, 1998.

Diane: I think you should step back for a moment and reconsider the question. Problem solving starts with a clear definition of the problem - and evidence of the existence of the problem. I don't agree with the basic premise.

Five+ billion people will not be affected by y2k. Five+ billion people do not survive because of a complex technological structure. 40% of the population live in 2 countries - China and India. Your American way of life and priorities are what you are interested in maintaining. Having been to over 20 countries, my view of the world, and it's people, may be different from your view.

I don't know how you earn your living, but you certainly have alot of time on your hands to write on this forum. That is not a criticism, that is envy. You are obviously much smarter than I am, to have created the stuation that allows you do this. May I suggest you have the courage to reconsider the premise and the courage to change it if you decide that the problem only existed because you wrote that it exists?

-- PNG (png@gol.com), December 10, 1998.

Diane, here's some contacts to include churches in your valiant efforts:

http://www.cbn.org/news/stories/981209b.asp

Y2K AND THE CHURCH, Preparing to Share, December 9, 1998

Many experts warn that Y2K, the Year 2000 computer problem, represents an unprecedented threat to our economy and way of life. If so, the question confronting the church is, how should it respond in a potential time of crisis? That was the question posed in a strategic meeting this past weekend in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

Chris Mitchell, reporter, Mission America, a coalition of national leaders, ministries, and denominations representing 185,000 local churches convened the meeting. Dr. Cornell Haan of Mission America described the purpose of the meeting.

"If it is going to be a problem, the church needs to be prepared, and I would be the last person who would say don't prepare," says Dr. Haan. "In fact, it would only be a fool, Proverbs says, who tells you not to prepare. The Y2K problem could present itself as an event that could bring revival to the church. It could be the greatest opportunity to evangelize that we've ever seen in my lifetime -- to come together and ask the question, is there something we should be doing together to instruct the church, to prepare the church if there was a crisis. Evangelism is the main focus of this meeting."

The Mission America meeting in Colorado Springs represents the latest effort of the church to respond on a national scale to the potential disruptions and opportunities of Y2K.

This latest effort also represented the first time such a wide spectrum of the body of Christ came together to address Y2K. Promise Keepers, Campus Crusade, the Southern Baptist Convention, business leaders, disaster relief specialists, strategic prayer networks and others attended the meeting.

"What this meeting did was solve some of that problem of each doing our own thing," says Shaunti Feldhahn of the Joseph Project 2000. "We had an opportunity today to talk about how we can come together and form a national strategy for Christian work on Y2K, and specifically with a focus on witness with evangelism."

The main focus of the meeting remained evangelism. "It could be the greatest opportunity to evangelize that we've ever seen in my lifetime," says Dr. Haan.

The discussion centered in part on Joseph Project 2000, a key evangelistic model for Y2K. Joseph Project 2000 chapters facilitate meetings like the one held last September in Atlanta. The goal is to provide credible information and generate Christian leadership in communities across the country and around the world.

Themes of service and witness resonated in Colorado Springs. The goal was to help the church prepare to share. Many believe the church can both provide solutions during Y2K and spread the gospel.

"I would like to see Christians thinking pro-actively -- thinking ahead and saying, what can we do with local government coming alongside before the crisis," says Allan Beeber of Campus Crusade for Christ. "And they will sense our hearts; they will really want to help, and you know, they're going to say the Christians have really stepped up to the plate on this thing."

"I believe that if believers are properly equipped to evangelize, to invite people in, to actually deal with some follow-up discipleship, that we can have a movement of just expanding the Christian community like we've never seen before," says Margaret Jamal of Hope for America Ministries.

And for a meeting that began and ended with prayer, the focus remained on the One who promised to never leave or forsake His church, even in times of crisis.

xxxxxxx xxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 10, 1998.

I'll say it again -there is an agenda at work here - Clinton and his cronies are fully aware of what is going to go down in one year's time - so whay arent they doing anything up fron about it? Whay no speeches, no fireside chats?

Oh, because they are planning on thinning the herd a little, planning on a cashless society (KYC anyone?), planning on getting rid of the bottom feeders, planning on *more* control - not less.

And Y2K will allow them to play this hand to the hilt.

All power to you Diane but you are definitely swimming agains a rip- tide...

-- Andy (andy_rowland@msn.com), December 10, 1998.

PNG is right...Y2K is an issue for the US,Canada,Western Europe,Australia,New Zealand and Japan to grapple with. We may well find ourselves living quite differently post Y2K, but the greater part of the rest of the world will continue to live their lives largely oblivious to the existence of computers and their problems.We in the West and Japan may feel that since Y2K may paralyze us then certainly the "less developed" nations must wallow in our misery. It ain't necessarily so...I think that 5+billion people could live their lives in a perfectly happy fashion whether or not we and our self- inflicted computer world existed at all.

-- Sam Rowe (rowes@gate.net), December 10, 1998.

Diane, this ought to inspire you :)

http://www.hotcoco.com/news/business/businessstories/jfm09017.htm

Pulling Together To 2000, published 12/10/1998

Activists urge neighbors to get ready as a group for looming crises
By Jessica Guynn, TIMES STAFF WRITER

BERKELEY -- Lois Jones, a retired city planner, has planted a garden filled with greens, leeks, onions and garlic in the backyard of her Berkeley home, a fertile patch she hopes could help sustain her and her neighbors should local grocery stores run out of food after the clock strikes midnight in the year 2000.
Sound far-fetched?
It may not be.
No one can predict the magnitude of the fallout from the Year 2000 computer bug, a problem commonly known as Y2K.
.....
High-tech experts have fanned out to businesses, hospitals and city governments in a multibillion-dollar attempt to rewrite programming code or replace faulty systems, but they say it's nearly impossible to find all of the defective chips that will lose track of time. Computer chips lurk inside everything from pacemakers to airplanes, so the potential for a massive digital domino effect is frightening. Power outages. Food and water shortages. Bank and school closures. No telephones. Disruption of emergency services. Escalating crime. Backed up sewers.

Bracing for the worst
In the event of such a major global crisis, Jones and others say we will have to think local, as in very local.

They believe we won't be able to rely on county, state or federal authorities to come to the aid of individual communities and neighborhoods. To wit: Half the nation's counties don't have strategic plans in place to deal with Y2K and that could immobilize emergency response systems, the National Association of Counties reported this week.

Instead, Jones urges us to plan for a potential Y2K catastrophe the same way we would for an earthquake or to protect ourselves against crime in our neighborhoods -- by getting to know our neighbors and being good Samaritans.

Until now, Y2K has been a rallying point for survivalists, militia groups, religious sects or doomsayers. But a growing number of people and businesses from coast to coast are heeding media reports and are bracing for the worst.

These are not extremists, alarmists or conspiracists. They are just ordinary people -- lawyers, doctors, computer programmers from the cities and the suburbs -- who want to be prepared in case their Y2K fears become reality. And though they still get funny looks from some who think they're "crackpots" or "kooks," their fears are starting to ripple from the fringe into mainstream America. Like dozens of communities that have mobilized across the country, in recent months hundreds of people have formed community groups and task forces around the Bay Area -- from the Napa Valley to the Santa Cruz mountains -- in a grass-roots effort to raise awareness about Y2K.

In this together
Jones is what you might call a practical dreamer. Hers is a utopian vision of a "sustainable community" where neighbors work together and watch out for one another in their everyday lives. Sustainability is a community movement with three main goals: to strengthen the local economy, protect the environment and enhance the quality of life. It's a movement endorsed by the U.S. Department of Energy, academics and community groups across the country.

The idea behind Y2K sustainability is that if yours is the only house in your neighborhood prepared for Y2K, it won't do you much good. Becoming a self-styled survivalist and heading off the grid and into the hills in sport utility vehicles loaded down with food, water and guns isn't much of an alternative either.

So Jones and other Bay Area activists are promoting the idea of remaining in our neighborhoods to prepare for the possibility that the world will go haywire in a Y2K crisis. To that end, Jones meets once a month at a local library with other concerned citizens who have formed a Berkeley group focusing on Y2K.

"The beauty of this approach is that these are things that make our lives richer anyway," Jones said, sitting in her cozy, sun-lit kitchen sipping from a mug of herbal tea on a recent afternoon. "We are not coming from a place of panic, but one of cooperation. Even if nothing happens, you get to know your neighbors and develop a sense of community. To my mind, there is no downside to being prepared." Being prepared can mean planting gardens, finding ways to purify water, installing alternative sources of energy such as solar power in a community meeting place, stockpiling food, water, medicine, fuel and warm clothes and creating an inventory of tools and resources neighbors can share such as well drilling equipment, garden tools, firewood, barbecues, chain saws, CB radios and camping toilets.

It can also mean surveying the skills of your neighbors -- who's a doctor, who's a mechanic? -- to determine how they can best help in an emergency.

Self-reliance
"To me Y2K is an important event because it's a stimulus to get people working together," said Bruce Baumrucker, a concerned citizen who in June started a group called Community Strength in Martinez. "My approach is the community strategy, not the individual strategy."

Baumrucker has three main projects he'd like to see to fruition: a community financial support alliance that provides small loans or investment opportunities to individuals or small businesses; a community emergency response system; and a community health care network system.

Y2K community groups say their aim isn't to panic people, but to help communities become more self-reliant.
"I am not so much sure that there is going to be a doomsday scenario, as I am sure that there is a real possibility of multiple, simultaneous global disruptions that may overwhelm our current systems' capacity to respond," said Mary Ann Gallagher, a Silicon Valley computer design manager who has volunteered her time since March to help communities prepare as a member of Bay 2K, short for the Bay Area Year 2000 Community Forum.

"The best way to increase the systems' capacity to respond is to have communities put better infrastructure in place, not just to leave it in the hands of government and emergency services," Gallagher said.

Bay2K is one of the largest local groups. It meets twice a month, the first Wednesday for presentations and videos, the second Wednesday for dialogue on personal preparedness, neighborhood preparedness and the Y2K movement. It is also organizing a regional conference in March to bring together members of all Bay Area groups to share information and strategize about the future.

Making new friends
"The longer people have to absorb an issue and prepare themselves, the less likely the situation will escalate into a crisis," said William Ulrich, a Soquel-based expert on the Year 2000 computer bug and a member of the national group Center for Year 2000 Community Action Plans. "The best-case scenario is that nothing happens at all. And if nothing happens, then at least you will have established bonds in your community to deal with other issues over the long-term and you will probably make a few new friends out of it. I have met more people in the last two months than I have in the last 10 years." That's because Ulrich helped form a task force in Santa Cruz County a few months ago that meets twice a month to build awareness and help his community ready itself for a potential Y2K meltdown. The task force is spreading the word about Y2K through local government, businesses and nonprofit organizations. Its members also research how prepared utilities, cities and hospitals are for Y2K. "The worst time to meet someone is during a disaster," Ulrich points out. "Why not work together to form that relationship ahead of time and be ready no matter what takes place? We hope our group will long outlive the Y2K issue."

Tips for organizing your neighborhood

* Set up a steering committee of no more than six to eight people and hold weekly meetings.
* Consider whom you want to influence: the general public, political leaders, emergency response systems.
* Develop materials that target that audience such as brochures, slide presentations or PowerPoint presentations.
* Decide what results you want; these can include assurances that power, water, phone and sewage systems will function, starting a neighborhood preparation program, establishing measures to take care of the elderly and disabled or developing contingency plans such as local currency in case banks run out of money.
* Do an intensive public relations campaign by sending press releases to the media, writing letters to the editor, putting up posters around town or bringing in Y2K experts to speak.
* Days remaining until Jan. 1, 2000: 386

Source: Napa Valley Y2K
For more details: www.y2knapa.com

For more information on Y2K groups in the Bay Area

* Bay Area Year 2000 Community Forum or Bay2K
Call: 415-931-2593
* Community Strength
E-mail: bbaumrucker@value.net
* Berkeley
E-mail: loisjones@igc.org
* Marin County
E-mail: jayearley@aol.com
* Santa Cruz
E-mail: tsginc@cruzio.com
Edition: SRVT, Section: C, Page: 1

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 11, 1998.

Andy wrote: >Oh, because they are planning on thinning the herd a little, >planning on a cashless society (KYC anyone?), planning on getting >rid of the bottom feeders, planning on *more* control - not less. >And Y2K will allow them to play this hand to the hilt.

Well, I agree to a point.

However, if it's worst-case scenario and TS really does HTF, how do you figure that the gov will be able to exert it's control?

Of the persons that survive, they survived because they didn't listen to the government in the first place (which advocated no real action in preparing for this disaster).

Do you really think that these survivors (us and others like us) are even going to acknowledge the existence of a government that allowed a large percentage of the population to die of starvation and inadequate care?

A government that committed a criminal act by not warning their citizens adequately of the dangers ahead?

A government that has slowly over the decades been setting aside our constitutional rights in a horrendous abuse of power? (Are you listening *Big Brother*? Get an earful...)

If the government comes out issuing orders, how are they to issue them in the first place? Carrier pigeon? How will the people hear the orders? How will the gov implement the orders? How will they enforce the orders? Send out the soldiers, or the "suits"?

The "suits" will get hung immediately, and do you really think there will be any GIs (those that didn't already desert or die) willing to shoot their father or mother, or their neighbor?

So...it seems to me that the gov post-Y2k is a moot point.

We will be on our own. It will be up to us to reinstitute what the original framers of the constitution intended. A self-directed society with a truly representative government.

If you ask me, it's the chance of a lifetime to do it all over again.

It's a golden opportunity to do it right and make sure it stays right this time.

And, to answer Diane's original question:

>How do we help those 6 Billion people, worldwide, survive beyond >2000 without a complex technological structure in place? Starting >now.

I hate to be "isolationist", but.....

We are going to have all we can manage just to stay alive and survive this in our country. We will have chaos here.

I don't know the answer and frankly my order of priority is - (1) my own family and neighbors (2) my country and (3) the world in general.

If my own immediate family and neighbors are securely prepared, and my country is adequately prepared, *then* and only then, am I willing and ready to worry about and help the rest of the world.

Just mho.

Bobbi (Asbestos undies installed) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Civilization is the process of setting man free from men." -- Ayn Rand -- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Y2k? http://www.buzzbyte.com/ Got water? Got Beans? Take the Y2k Preparation Quiz!

-- Bobbi (volfnat@northweb.com), December 11, 1998.

If it is true that 5+ Billion people can live without technology and by inference live without the technological west and Asia, why do we Americans spend billions on foreign and food aid annually? Why do we give away or subsidize millions of tons of grain shipments every year? Why do we have our troops all over the globe keeping the piece? It isnt just Americans that get welfare from the American tax payers, good big chunks of the world does.

I agree that most of the non technological world will not feel the *immediate* effects of Y2K like the technical world will, but to intimate that the planet wont even miss America should it suffer collapse or that it might in some way be better off is thinking that is logically askew.

If we go down in a heap, the rest of the world will feel it, in one way or another. If we cant produce and ship food, large parts of the world will hurt.

-- Timothy (trebman@megavision.com), December 11, 1998.

Lots of good ideas here. But I would be much more optimistic about the community preparation scenarios if I could convince one person I know to make serious personal preparations. Nobody wants to quit believing in technology and the stock market. The masses will keep shrugging it off and making jokes until it's too late.

Doesn't mean it's hopeless...it means all of us will have to carry the load if we want civilization to survive. It ain't fair, but that's the way it is. Most of your neighbors will not have extra food, unless you're really lucky or really persuasive. If you have enough to carry them through for a while, then maybe after they get over their shock they'll pitch in and help out.

The best ideas I think involve networking locally the people who "get it"...but around here they're few and far between.

-- Shimrod (none@none.org), December 11, 1998.

It's ironic how an empty stomach will force you to do things that you wouldn't normally do.

-- Y2KBabe (Y2KBabe@xxx.com), December 12, 1998.

I would not be too concerned about the others on the planet - we in Northe America and Europe and Aust/NZ are used to a highly techolological society where we can't even put bread on the table without it having gone through myriads of processes involving computers. We as a society have no clue what it takes to exist without machines and electrons, but a great percentage of the world's population do not need this technology to exist - they have the knowledge to get the bread to the table through time-proven methods which have not been forgotten.

We may be the ones to suffer - not the 5 billion in more "primitive" conditions than ours, and because of our dependence on other people and things for every aspect of our lives, we may find ourselves in those same primitive conditions.

-- Laurane (familyties@rttinc.com), December 12, 1998.

Another big thanks to Declan McCullagh, the writer of this article

http:/ /www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16857.html

Y2K:We're All In This Together

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 16, 1998.

Hi Diane, are you still working on the Y2K Prep Challenge? A big project, but if you aim for the WRP you could reach lotsa ppl who might be inspired to implement your ideas. Just wondered how you're doing. You've been unusually quiet, miss your comments on the new threads.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 20, 1998.

Yes, Leska, still working on it!

Don't know that I'll be ready for this weeks Cory letter, but soon. I watched most the events in Washingon (*Sigh*), so I have some forum catching up to do. Also taking time out, too. 'Tis the season. We'll be busy enough with Y2K next year.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 20, 1998.

Good, Diane, because grassroots preparation efforts are going to be the only way to wake up some more people. The Washington DC crowd has descended into juevenile delinquency. Americans are on our own to deal with TEOTWAWKI. Merry Christmas, enjoy the season!

xxxxxxx xxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 20, 1998.

http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/scitec h/wires2/1223/t_rt_1223_16.sml

Embrace Y2K -- don't panic, publisher says
4:25 p.m. ET (2126 GMT) December 23, 1998

SAN FRANCISCO (Wired)  Eric and Nina Utne hadn't paid much attention to Y2K until their son Leif started shoving articles about the computer bug problem in front of them.

Suddenly, the co-chairs of the Utne Reader  a bimonthly digest of alternative media  got worried. So they decided to publish a 120-page Y2K Citizen's Action Guide and mail it, free, to all 260,000 of their subscribers.

"Instead of tumbling into denial or panic or getting pissed off, let's embrace Y2K,'' the Utnes write in a column titled ''Y2K & U.'' "It may be the historic moment when we all finally turn toward environmental sustainability and true community.''

The guide comes with an envelope for mailing donations to the magazine's Y2K Project, as well as sample speeches that can be made when organizing local community groups. A section called Inner Preparedness features articles such as "From Chaos to Coherence: The Emotional Challenge of Y2K.''

Stanley Moses, Utne's assistant to the president, said this is the first time the magazine has solicited money to help with a special project.

The magazine's Y2K Project will also include a public education campaign and an expanded Web site (http://www.utne.com) with lists of Y2K events and links, said Kath Delaney, a spokeswoman for Utne. "We really want to provide a clearinghouse,'' Delaney said.

The guide will hit newsstands, and be sold separately from the magazine, beginning 29 December. It can also be ordered from Amazon.com and Powells.com for $4.95. Delaney said subscribers and their friends have already clamored for 7,500 additional copies. The Utnes assembled the guide in less than a month and they champion it as the "most nonalarmist, practical, clearheaded collection of articles we've seen on ... preparedness.''

Both Utnes confess to being "not all that into computers.'' Their 26-year-old son Leif is an interactive specialist at the magazine's Minneapolis headquarters.

Eric Utne, who founded the magazine 15 years ago, sees Y2K as an opportunity, "the excuse we've all been waiting for'' to get to know our neighbors and work together to build community. The guide was also mailed to several hundred discussion groups that belong to the magazine's Neighborhood Salon Association.

Several articles in the guide outline the Y2K problem and stress how intertwined computers have become in everyday life. A section on public citizenship details what people can do to help, such as making sure their workplaces are Y2K compliant and pressing "for much more aggressive leadership at the national level to address the Y2K problem.''

The guide also suggests pushing to get the media to pay more attention to Y2K and working to get the issue addressed on television shows like Oprah Winfrey's.

Paloma O'Riley, founder of the Cassandra Project, a nonprofit focusing on Y2K preparedness, wrote several pieces.

The guide highlights communities that are tackling the problem, including Boulder, Colorado, and supplies information about how to organize meetings in your own town.

There's even a sample flyer and a suggested speech to give. In delivering speeches, the guide recommends giving an overview of Y2K and then saying, "Wow. I don't know how you are feeling, but I was  when I first heard about this issue.''

=================================================================
xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 24, 1998.

Thanks Leska, I'll follow up on that.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 24, 1998.

You ask for a "hook" to get attention for this problem?

How about a FLOOD of emails, phone calls, letters etc. to the Representatives in Congress, with copies to every local/national news media stating:

A NATIONWIDE STRIKE OF THE WORKERS OF AMERICA/CANADA WILL BE HELD ON SUCH & SUCH A DATE TO PROTEST THE GOVERNMENT'S REFUSAL TO DEAL OPENLY AND HONESTLY WITH THE Y2K PROBLEM.

-- Don't Ask (can't say@won't tell.com), December 24, 1998.

Worried Citizens Mobilize For The Computer Millennium

Worried Citizens Mobilize For The Computer Millennium
By Mary Beth Regan, c.1998 Cox News Service

WASHINGTON -- Lisa Zach isn't one to be scared by computer problems. A 1987 graduate of Texas A&M University, the computer scientist runs her own 10-person firm in Texarkana, Tex., designing, servicing and fixing computer networks.

But when Zach began investigating the Year 2000 computer problem, her knees got weak.

"This is a lot bigger than fixing people's computers," said Zach. "It could touch every aspect of our lives. And the potential for a chain reaction is great."

So Zach launched her own campaign to get Texarkana officials to begin planning for computer malfunctioning linked to the century's date change. In January, her company will co-host a meeting to discuss everything from backup water supplies to alternative heat sources.

"We're prepared to give extra blankets to the elderly, but that's about it," Zach said.

Texarkana residents aren't alone. According to a November survey by the National Association of Counties, half the nation's counties lack plans to deal with Year 2000 problems. Perhaps most troubling, these counties are responsible for services as basic as 911 emergency-response systems, which are at risk because no one has checked to see whether they are Y2K compliant.

In the face of this bureaucratic malaise, a grassroots movement is rising nationwide.

Y2K activists appear to fall into two camps: On one side, individuals are stockpiling food and preparing for serious disruptions of life's necessities. On the other, about 200 citizens groups nationwide are pressuring leaders to prepare for a hurricane-like disaster.

"The government is not talking to the American people about potential problems," said Paloma O'Riley, a computer expert turned activist. "I'm not saying we need to freak out, but we need to be prepared."

O'Riley founded the non-profit Cassandra Project in 1997 to address Y2K public health threats. She keeps in touch with activists through her Internet site (http://www.cassandraproject.org), where many groups are listed.

In Georgia, Bill Lynes is trying to be sensible. He said some of his friends are heading to the mountains, but he plans to stay put with his wife and three children near Savannah.

Family members have spent about $6,000 canning their own food in anticipation of widespread shortages. And they are stashing dozens of water-filled plastic milk jugs in their basement. Next project: a solar-powered generator as a backup for electricity to run lights and a pump for more water.

"I've got friends heading for a commune," Lynes said. "But we want to be prepared to survive right here."

Even Zach, in Texas, is taking precautions. She estimates her family has spent $8,000 on freeze-dried food and distilled water for their pantry. They also have purchased a backup generator, propane stove and even a four-person solar-powered tub for bathing.

Lou Marcoccio, managing partner of the Gartner Group, an internationally known consulting group, said some of these measures may be unnecessary.

"For the most part, some of this is overblown, at least in the United States," said Marcoccio. "We don't expect widespread power failures or telephone outages."

Still, Marcoccio says citizens should take some precautions heading into the millennium.

He advises that people take a look at their investment portfolios. It's widely known, for example, that some countries such as the Philippines and Thailand could be hit very hard by Y2K disturbances. That may drag down the value of emerging market mutual funds.

Another concern is medicine. People who take medicines such as insulin should make certain there won't be a disruption in supply because of insurance or production issues.

Mostly, though, Marcoccio said the public should not panic -- especially about the financial markets. Most U.S. banks have completed Y2K fixes. The stock exchanges have already conducted one dress rehearsal that resulted in no failures.

The big unknown, however, remains the impact of global markets on local communities like Texarkana, Tex.

For that reason, Zach continues to stock her pantry.

"I don't think it's the end of the world," she said. "It's a man-made error that was created years ago. It's just going to cause a few bumps in the road."
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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 29, 1998.

I don't know how much you have actually tried to convince people of the needs of y2k. But I've been into trying to convince people since 1996 that this is a very serious issue. I have written up information, made handouts, and talked to everyone I meet. I finally stopped. I made a lot of people really mad at me, and another lot of people considering me a serious idiot, since everyone knows this was already fixed. Forget it. You can't save them. They don't want to be saved. Remember Noah's experience. Glenna

-- Glenna Kamoroff (kamoroff@hotmail.com), December 30, 1998.

Glenna, you're right. We've tried for years to get ppl to prepare for earthquakes in a scientifically-proven EQ zone. Ppl don't wanna hear it. *But* every rare once in a great while somebody will "get it." We know an emerging GI we initially tipped off who is influencing others and may do a lot of good. It is up to them to be ticked off or tipped off. But, we have stopped talking to others about it. Posting here is work enough! And we're going to be doing "local" legwork follow-thrus soon, thanks to Robert Cook. We're already as prepared as we can be given $$ + space limitations. Of course, those things can change during the course of a year ...

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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 30, 1998.

Glenna & Leska,

Timing, timing, timing is as important as location, location, location.

They are about ready to "get it." The steaming pot over the Y2K global campfire has vapor rising and bubbles starting to appear on the surface.

Hang in there.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 30, 1998.

I sure hope you guys havn't thrown out all that "Freeze Dried" foods, and survival supplies!. By the looks of things you will need them, http://www.rense.com/general30/germ.htm The only chance of avoiding an "Economic Meltdown" is by going to war with Iraq. And that my friends has around a 95% chance of turning into WW-3!. The future looks far more bleak than under the threat of Y2K problems, so where is your concern now?. The "GRIM REAPER" is just around the corner, and if you have let your guard down, then he is calling your name!. Cheers, HH.

-- The Happy Hoarder (bright28555@yahoo.com), October 07, 2002.

i would like to fine some thing for my kids that i can by now and pay for it later like in payminets think you

-- tina gourley (littlet38024@yahoo.com), May 19, 2003.