This report was removed from this site due to the unpleasant true facts related within the report. We ask everybody to be sensible to test the benchmarks then please debate, I have placed a very sensible and well thought augument sent in by another responsible UK analysts.

We are both actively finding answers and have caused great stir within the United Kingdom. It make sense that Ed Yourden should help us all make sense out of the Theorist views, by testing and debating any angle that will when the correct solution is provided save the consumer money, time and direct answers in a very responsible an ethic way. I have no need to cause any professional clash or misunderstanding just sensible open debate on the issues of Y2k

Visionaries IT Research site http://internet2000-Plc.com Simple solutions for complex problems - encryption, data, MCDC, platform application, consultants. 21 St Hilda Road, Cheriton, Kent, CT19 4BU. Telephone +44 (0) 1303 276099 Email VisionariesIT@csi.com

(This document is a British English draft - USA readers please note)

30th June 1998. (Draft amended 9th December 1998)

Another simple solutions from visionaries IT Research, based on researched facts.

Report on BIOS Date Retention Millennium Rollover 31st December 1999 to 1 January 2000

Note This document can be copied and circulate and orally related as long as full acknowledgment is made to the originators Visionaries IT Research.

The Brief. *One of the main problems concerning not only PC Computer Systems but also Embedded Systems is the date retention problem. Visionaries IT has carried out tests on an varied range computer systems that are prone to the date retention problem and have the following facts to report.

Visionaries IT have considered present thoughts and theories concerning PC Servers and time date related Embedded systems. Those Systems that are Tasked for specific purposes such as public safety or banking transaction and trading . After thorough research and benchmark testing Visionaries IT has found there is no real requirement to apply any software fix or upgrade.

The Reason: The simple fact is that the date retention problem only lasts for 24 hours.

Whilst on line (permanently switch on) prior to midnight 1st January 2000 , computer system or embedded system troubled by the retention problem will register the correct system date and time but when switched off will not retain the date. The systems relate only to the system time processed and stored in RAM memory. Whilst on line natural time progression leads to natural date progression and the normal systems functions will not be interrupted in any way through out the 24 hour Real Time Clock non date retention period..

At midnight 1st January 2000, the daily rollover to the following day 2nd January 2000 will eradicate the problem in an instant. If the system is taken of line and switched off the date will be saved and registered in the correct manner.

The DOS Bench Test. Any 8086, 386, 486 or Pentium with a non date retention problem:

Set the Date to the last day of the 20th Century and the time to the last second.

At the DOS prompt type:

"Date 31/12/1999" (Set the Date) - Press the Enter Key

Then:

" Time 23:59:59" (Set the Time) - Press the Enter Key

Now set the time to the last second of 1st January 2000 to simulate Natural Time Progression. (However to thoroughly test just leave the system switched on for 25 hour then test for date retention).

Wait a few seconds then set then at the DOS prompt:

"Time 23:59:59" - Press the Enter Key

Then wait a few seconds. Close the system down (Windows 95, 98) and finally switch off.

Wait for a couple of minutes then switch the system on again. once booted ,view the system date.

At the DOS prompt type:

"Date" - Press the Enter Key

The date will read 2nd January 2000 . This proves that Natural Time Progression (NTP) will solve the problem.

Notes: Of course those that prefer to use Windows Control Panel Time and Date setting can still do so, do not forget to close Windows 95 or 98 down before switching off the PC System.

Computerised Equipment (containing Embedded Systems) can also be tested in a similar manner by using the appropriate key entries (Read the Operations Manuals). Summary: There is no real need to purchase BIOS ROM fix software application as the normal date progression will eradicate the problem completely.

We have found no proof that any PC system purchased after 1990 that the system date records as 2 digit year after the 31st December 1999. However we wish to be informed of the brand, model number, the BIOS ROM, make and serial number of such beasts if they do really exist.

Workstations and servers that have the retention problem are switch off at night will need only the date enter on the first day of operation.

They will be fully functional it is only that the date will initially read 4th January 1980. In any case most workstation will be relating to the servers network date when directed and connected to the Network. Giving plenty of time for the individual dates to be adjusted (these factors should be analysed by system managers)..

This natural safeguard will in fact be relevant to any system using BIOS technology to include Embedded Systems what ever the customisation it is believed that 99% of BIOS ROMs purchased after 1983 will react safely after 24 hour Millennium NTP period passes by.

*Photocopiers, Fax Machines and VCR react exactly the same as PC Systems and can be tested in the same manner. Unfortunately Visionaries IT does not have the resources to confirm that all Embedded System strictly obey the rule, so can only state logic theory on that this should be so.

These factors however should be taken in to account:

That many Embedded Systems are only used as counters and do not relate to the time or date, once the computerised equipment is turned off the date resets to the BIOS ROM floor 4th January 1980. They are not Battery backed

Many Embedded systems relate to Sunday to Monday and the Time only once the computerised equipment is turned off the date resets to the BIOS ROM floor 4th January 1980. E.g. VCRs, Alarm Systems and Lawn Sprinklers etc. They are not Battery Backed.

Many Embedded Systems relate only to Time only, once the computerised equipment is turned off the date resets to the BIOS ROM floor 4th January 1980. E.g. Cookers, Microwaves etc. They are not Battery Backed.

Those that do use the Time and Date functions normally function the same as PC Systems and the testing procedure should be based on the same principles.

We suggest that UK Government Departments arranges for an establishment to independently check out Visionaries ITs Embedded System Benchmark.

Lifts, Fax Machines and other equipment such as VCRs will function well without any foreseeable problems. There maybe problems that is of course a power cut or failure which could require direct attention within the Millennium NTP period, it is suggested that companies may find the best protection would be to ensure computer systems managers are on duty or call over the Millennium NTP period. This could also be a precaution, to ensure that business and security systems can be checked or taken off line if data errors occur, to prevent any further corruption or costly mistakes.

This report is not a statement that computerised equipment should not be tested but that upgrading and renewal should always take low priority to ensure that budgets are kept low and the consumer is aware of all options .

Our Finding are a clear statement that the mild BIOS ROM software fault will not be the cause to civil unrest, national disaster, planes falling from the sky, atomic disaster or the second coming of Christ. USA Senators and United Kingdom MPs, etc are already booking flights on the 1st January 2000 (after reading the original Natural Time Progression report and having the benchmark tested).

***Notes: \

1. All benchmark tests are carried out three times, to be sure that the test results are correct. 2. Visionaries IT are not making any statement that Computerised equipment should not be tested, only that great consideration should be made that upgrading or renewing should be the last option and not the first. 3. We are actually stating that establishment and experts should take care to manually benchmark test equipment prior to making bold statements that could backfire into a legal risk. 4. The problem with Information Technology is that the Consultants and Specialist behave like academics and make even the simple technologies seem like an Einstein equation. When their reasoning is attacked they use the wizardry of the trade more Einstein equations to protect their livery hoods. This is becoming very expensive to the Consumer and the Tax payer. 5. A question for the those experts and manufacturers that know the truth of the issue. What happens when the old second hand equipment is sold within the 21st Century? Do you think the Brokers will miss a trick?

*Amendment made 20th November 1998 to include further test data from further investigation and benchmark tests.

**Prior to any test being carried out it maybe best to backup all PC system data as few applications have a date achieving of delete old file option, they do normally prompt yes or no but human error could result in a minor calamity. This was brought to our attention by several readers of the first draft we thank them for their sensible input and fair criticism. We value criticism from any outside source, from free thinking Analyst and solution providers.

*** These note have been added to the report due to queries and criticism made by manufacturers, journalist, academics, engineers, scientist, accountants and solicitors, we thank everyone of them for their help and common sense.

)Visionaries IT 1998 for free distribution.

Distribution List. - Redistributed 20th November 1998 to include the amendments

UK Government UK Government Departments: CITU The Cabinet Office, DTI, Action 2000, Dr David Clark USA House of Representatives Science and Technology Committee, Whitehouse Robin Gurnier Taskforce 2000 Peter De Jager Year 2000 Canada 52 Overseas Government Authorities British Banking Association Association of British Insurers British Stock Exchange, Wall Street. The Consumer Association CSSA, BCS, Law Society DISC committee BSI Business Link UK UK National Press Manufacturers Journalist Consultant IT Specialists Solicitors Accountants Trade and Industry

Further research findings since the June 1998 Report:-

Analysis of BIOS Software Hex Decimal (Machine Code) source code:

BIOS ROMs manufactured after 1983 to 1995 contain two software date loops the first a 20th Century loop that finishes at Midnight 31/12/99 the second 21st Century loop that begins at midnight 01/01/2000. There is 24 hour period that causes an error to occur, on an error the BIOS date refers to the floor of 04/01/80 the very beginning of the 20th century loop. OEM manufacturer is irrelevant to the problem as the accepted date and time BIOS program code has been copied and thought to be a set standard any amendment to the software has been an additive to the original code with no amendments to standard format.

Unfortunately many publications and policies on the Millennium Century date problem need to be reviewed and amended, any think short will lead to high risks of legal address by many consumers. Policies should not be built on un-researched theories the Millennium Century Date Change scenario gives good proof to this fact, with many organisation being embarrassed by the facts. The UK pledge is thought to stop most of the litigation problems but what happens when this report becomes common knowledge.

-- Bob Johnson-Perkins (bob@Internet2000-Plc.com), December 08, 1998

Answers

I commented om this guy's site before in a prior post (Carol P.). English must be this person's second language.

-- RD. ->H (drherr@erols.com), December 08, 1998.

Any 8086, 386, 486 or Pentium with a non date retention problem. Set the time and date to 23:59:59 31/12/1999 wait a few seconds then set the time to 23:59:59, then wait a few seconds. Close the system down (Windows 95, 98) and finally switch off. Wait for a couple of minutes then switch the system on again, Once booted ,view the system date, the date will read 2nd January 2000 . Natural Time Progression (NTP) will solve the problem. This test is unfortunately flawed as when you enter the time for the second time, the CMOS is correctly updated. Before the time is entered, the CMOS reads 1900, and directly after, reads 2000 - even before it passes into 2 Jan. Try it by using 23:59:50 and a CMOS viewer (not one that uses the BIOS to get the CMOS). In fact, here's our internal one:

Chris sent this to Bob Johnson-Perkins today

-- Chris Mottram (chrism@schoolhs.demon.co.uk), December 08, 1998.

Answer to Chris,

Someone is thinking at last, you could also could be right. But as suggested in my email (using my second tongue UK english). Its suggested prior to kicking it all into touch as due to my poor old grammar problem. That those real analyst out there actual test a few systems over a period of 24 Hours and 1 minute.

Thanks for the software but unfortunaly test such as below need to be run without any form of unknown and untested application results.

Any 8086, 386, 486 or Pentium with a non date retention problem:

Set the Date to the last day of the 20th Century and the time to the last second.

At the DOS prompt type:

"Date 31/12/1999" (*Set the Date) - Press the Enter Key

Then:

" Time 23:59:59" (Set the Time) - Press the Enter Key

Leave the system powered for 24 Hours plus

Then switch off

Switch on

Then at the DOS prompt type

"Date" Press the enter key

We already know the answer to this test, but wish to hear your.

*Note the date may be 12/31/99 in the USA,as with our s for z this could lead to all kinds of academic problems.

As we say in UK "It does not matter how you say it is it true?" and by commenting only on the grammar its thought that we have hit a nerve.

-- Bob Johnson-Perkins (bob@Internet2000-Plc.com), December 08, 1998.

English, guys, English! How does this translate to me, who doesn't get most of it?

-- margie mason (mar3mike@aol.com), December 08, 1998.

Well, margie, it might not relate to you. Remember, a lot of this computer stuff is very complex, and not everyone will understand all of it. Of course that doesn't mean it may not affect you, it just means that some of it will be out of your reach.

-- . (blank@blank.com), December 08, 1998.

In reply to your crude, private e-mail, I suggest you do some real research on this subject and then hire a native English speaker to translate your inadequate technical ravings. I will save you a little work by informing you that all Award BIOS manufactured between April 1994 and June 1995 can NOT be set to a century value of 20. Therefore, any machine that contains these BIOS will NOT be reset by your pathetic NTP. So much for your claim that "all" 8086 and forward machines are date fixed by NTP!! Oh, and this isn't the only BIOS manufacturer with this problem. And, there are certain BIOS/RTC combinations that are inherently date unstable. But, I am not going to tell you which ones. Perhaps you should make Tony Blair happy and learn COBOL. You might learn how to code something useful in a few years - with intensive tutoring.

-- RD. ->H (drherr@erols.com), December 08, 1998.

Bob, Thank you for amending some of your claims to appropriately restrict them to the BIOS date retention problem portion of Y2K. [Note to readers: Bob's first forum posting about these Visionaries IT claims was The UK Y2K June 1998 Report on natural time progression.] However, IMHO one paragraph you've added since the earlier version posted in this forum is inappropriate and misleading:

Our Finding are a clear statement that the mild BIOS ROM software fault will not be the cause to civil unrest, national disaster, planes falling from the sky, atomic disaster or the second coming of Christ. USA Senators and United Kingdom MPs, etc are already booking flights on the 1st January 2000 (after reading the original Natural Time Progression report and having the benchmark tested).

1. "Our Finding are a clear statement that the mild BIOS ROM software fault will not be the cause ..." There are BIOS software faults related to Y2K other than the single one that is the subject of your report. I recommend that you consistently use one phrase to refer to the subject of your report (perhaps "BIOS Date Retention Millennium Rollover 31st December 1999 to 1 January 2000" as used in your report heading, "BIOS date retention problem during 1 January 2000", or something else as long as it is consistent throughout your claims). By using the same phrase every time, one which is restricted to the subject of your report, you would avoid misleading the reader into thinking your claims cover more than they really do. Remember -- your report and claims cover only a small slice of Y2K problems. 2. "USA Senators and United Kingdom MPs, etc are already booking flights on the 1st January 2000 (after reading the original Natural Time Progression report and having the benchmark tested)." Are you _sure_ that US Senators booked flights for 1 January 2000 _after_ "reading the original Natural Time Progression report and having the benchmark tested"? I doubt that, and I think many other US readers would doubt that too. Personally, I think you'd do well to leave out that whole paragraph. References to "atomic disaster or the second coming of Christ" neither pertain to nor help your claims.

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), December 08, 1998.

Errors in spelling, tense, and case by this source notwithstanding --

What persuades me that his thesis is bonkers is that so many large and profitable institutions, managed by some very profit-oriented people, are now spending so many billions of dollars on Y2K assessment, remediation, and testing, with success (if attained) measured only by being able to stay in business. CEO's who spend large sums of money frivolously or by mistake soon stop being CEO's.

A. N. Whitehead wrote, Seek simplicity, and distrust it.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), December 09, 1998.

The technical thesis forwarded in this report is so absurd that I, nor any reasonably technically competent person will waste the time required to edit, correct or educate the writer(s). RD. is 100% correct.

However, I find it disturbing that the criticism of non-native English should be a factor or part of the discussion. I have but one question for those who criticize a non-native speaker of English - How many languages do you speak? If your answer is one, you have no right to criticize someone who has expended the energy to learn another language. I would rather speak with an accent, than be too lazy to try.

-- PNG (png@gol.com), December 09, 1998.

PNG-

I apologize if my request for an English translation was misinterpreted. What I am requesting is someone to explain all this in "layman's" terms. My eyes tend to glaze over at all the technical jargon.

-- margie mason (mar3mike@aol.com), December 09, 1998.

When we tested our PCs at FI Group for rollover turn of century and 28/02/2000 - 29/02/2000 we asked the user to see if the PC accepted a date in 2000. If it does accept a date we will be able to use it. Only if it failed both rollovers and didn't accept a date are we replacing it. We only found one like that.

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), December 09, 1998.

Most do Richard. BTW - thanks for sending me the information from your workplace - I have been under the weather or I would have replied sooner. Also, most NOS's have an option by which the client can reset the system date on the local client on startup - so if the machine can be set to a date in 2000 it can run correctly. Even Crouch does not claim his CE effect kicks in at once after a date reset (and I have yet to find a machine with this problem - though I admit I haven't been looking hard either).

IMHO a lot of the expense of Y2K is managers and such deciding to upgrade everything in sight "to be safe" when lessor expense would really be in line with what is warrented. I expect computer mfr stock to fall as sales will fall after 1/1/2000 - many offices will not upgrade again for at least a couple of years.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), December 09, 1998.

Yes Paul glad you are back, fit and well. We have found very few hardware problems, just one non-compliant PC and two NC servers, quite a few other servers will have to be reset manually. Just one NC router OS. PCs are replaced on a rolling basis every 2 or 3 years or so.

Quite a lot of software required upgrading or replacing though there tends to be quite a rapid turnover of products within FI. A lot of the older NC software was being replaced anyway. However had we not done a y2k project there would have been quite a degree of disruption in 2000. I don't feel it would have been insoluble though. It may be better playing safe. Yes having forked out on new kit for y2k will cause companies to cutback on their expenditure for a couple of years.

I feel however that old mainframe shops with extensive inter-related systems will be seriously threatened by y2k. I do think though that

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), December 09, 1998.