Since there is still quite a bit of confusion regarding the unlisted TG settings for many games, I thought of a good solution to help enlighten those of us who don't have direct communication with the TG group.

If TG settings are used for a recording, the player posting the score should not only state "TG settings" in the comments, but also describe the precise settings that were used for the game (i.e., "Difficulty/Hard; Lives/3; Bonus 30K/70K/70K"). This allows other players to compete on the same playing field.

This is specifically targeted at those individuals that are defining what the TG settings are. I have had 2 scores now that were knocked into 2nd place, because *someone* used TG settings that started a game with 4 lives, instead of 3, or settings that allow for a bonus life, instead of a bonus game.

Angry

-- Angry (greggg@ix.netcom.com), December 07, 1998

Answers

Time to clear the air

I think Angry has the right idea here. As MARP seems to be growing by leaps and bounds, all the newcomers deserve some sort of set of rules and regulations that we can all agree upon. This will alleviate any misunderstandings as to what settings are allowable and also perhaps address the issue of each player checking their own inps before submitting them to MARP.

As MARP is quickly becoming THE place on the net for avid gamers to post scores for bragging rights, we should work on making sure that scores can be verified by others. Otherwise, certain scores could become somewhat suspect if there is no other proof than the player saying "I really did do it". One suggestion is to provide a screenshot with the submission. I know that this method can be abused by the clever computer artisans, but in some cases, this is all we've got. Angry's new page (check the URL at the above post) has a section for such games that simply won't playback under any conditions at this point (namely, Frogs,Gorf,Safari) as well as any other peculiarities for other games. If the game is listed as unrecordable, then a screenshot should be required as proof.

As far as TG settings are concerned, I think until Walter Day and Mark Longridge get the TG page back up and running, Angry's suggestion of stating precise settings (this could also be a part of the inp zip) is quite fair and would be a step in the right direction. This would hopefully create a more level playing field for all involved. If someone posts a score using easier settings that costs someone else points (as has happened to both Angry and I recently), then the issue should be settled at once if there has been no previous concensus. In the first place, the poster with the new high score using the easier settings should have observed the older scores and played by the same settings that the older ones used. If the new poster doesn't agree with the old settings, he should address it with the player with the older score and/ or Zwaxy BEFORE sending in an obviously easier path to a top score. Sheesh, what's next? Setting games to infinite lives or something? I know that's a bit extreme, but I think you probably get the point by now.

Well, enough ranting for now, have a happy high-scoring day MARPers!

JoustGod

-- JoustGod (pinballwiz1@msn.com), December 07, 1998.

BTW, Gorf recordings *do* work...

I figured out the problem with Gorf recordings, and documented it on my page. The problem is identical to the Berzerk/Frenzy problems, and you must disable sound.

I believe that the problem is not game related, but actually a problem with how sampled sound is used by MAME.

=Angry=

-- Angry (greggg@ix.netcom.com), December 07, 1998.

good idea Joust...

i thought i heard somewhere that cubeman was making a mame tg settings list...if so, zwaxy could just add a few things to the upload scrips ^_^ TG tick box, when you type the name of the game (say 1942) it will reference cubemans list and print it int the description box :) talk about automation :)

1st place TG scores should not be placed 2nd to non tg scores, thats how i feel. if the 1st place is a TG settings game, then if you wanna beat that score you have to (honourable thing to do) play on those settings!

see, if your in a bit of a heated battle on some game on defaults, just up the odds by upping the difficulty or something :) it works for me :)

-- Krool (kellyq@ihug.co.nz), December 07, 1998.

Interesting point.

I have to agree with Angy about specifying what settings were actually used in the description box. I appologize for the inconvenience of changing the settings for The Pit. I studied the settings for this game closely after playing about 50 games with the settings I believe you were using, and realized that because this game 'doesnot' allow 'any' more free men, I checked with Walter Day himself to see if the settings could be set to 4 men to start instead of 3 because of how hard this game is just after a few stages and because it doesnot have the option of allowing any free men at all.

Regards,

Steve Krogman

-- Stephen Krogman (skrogman@concentric.net), December 07, 1998.

The Pit... (and other TG ramblings)

I still don't quite understand why the settings were altered for "The Pit". You and I were competing on this game just fine when it was set to 3 lives (I only beat your score by like 300 points), and *then* you set it to 4 lives and got the high score back?

Starting with 3 lives was just fine, and was likely the original TG setting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall the TG settings philosophy as being:

- If the game can be played indefinitely, alter the settings in such a manner to not allow the player to play indefinitely (i.e., set it to hardest difficulty, and remove the ability to earn unlimited extra lives where possible).

- If the game cannot be played indefinitely, and/or has an inevitible ending, leave the game set to its factory default settings.

I also have a problem with the TG policy of allowing continues to be used on forced ending games (like Bad Dudes or Robocop). This rule should ONLY apply to games that have BOTH a forced ending AND a limited number of continues (the only one of which I know of that meets this requirement is Atari's 720 Degrees).

Under this ruling, I suppose I could just start playing Smash TV on Free Play and get an incredible score (the game has a forced ending). And believe me, I could get a much larger score this way than if I were able to finish the game on 1 credit.

=Angry=

-- Angry (greggg@ix.netcom.com), December 07, 1998.

The Pit settings

Yeah, but Steve, I thought by your previous guideline for undocumented TG settings that the first 2 settings on this particular game (speed-hard, time limit-long) offset or "balanced" themselves already. Thus, there should be no need for an extra life on this game.

JoustGod

-- JoustGod (pinballwiz1@msn.com), December 07, 1998.

My take on TG Settings

Ok, pretty much everything has been said already, and I'm jumping in kinda late... but better late than never.

Nearly everyone recording that I've UL'ed to MARP has been done with MAME's default settings. I never change them or specify TG settings since I usually don't even know what TG settings even are for the game! Not even all games listed in the World Records Book have settings listed... so I'll just sit tight and wait for the official MAME TG list. If the TG settings differ from MAME's defaults, I'll only switch if someone else beats a score of mine using those.

As for games with "Forced endings", I think that all recordings done for MARP should be ONE credit only. While some games take away your score when you continue, being allowed to use infinite credits on a game that keeps your score when you continue is sometimes just asking for trouble. Like the aforementioned Bad Dudes... the scoring system in that game is all screwed up. Unless another person is playing, you will almost ALWAYS wind up with a score of 999,999 by the end of the game. How is that a measure of a player's skill, especially with the infinite "virtual credits" supplied by MAME? The game is do-able on one credit, so I think it should stay that way. Strangely, Dragon Ninja (the Japanese version) doesn't have this problem, because most of the scoring is divided by 4 (i.e. a boss awards 40,000 points in BD, but 10,000 in DN). Why? Well, as Krool would say, because Bad Dudes is one of those cutdown lame-o US versions. :)

Just my 2 credits (1 to continue),

-BBH

-- BBH (lordbbh@aol.com), December 10, 1998.

aaah, nice you REMEMBERED! (off topic)

well, now you see! lame-o usa hacks of a version ! geez, it really sucks eh ? but i still dont really know why they change them so much...there is no need... well, not to change the whole fukkin game! why cant they just leave it alone ?! the "just gotta be different at any cost" complex i think...

Krool 1 credit to start, continues disabled

-- Krool (kellyq@ihug.co.nz), December 13, 1998.