Rules for post-Y2K "Guests"

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Friends,

We live in a rural area on a small homestead which we are preparing as best we can. If TEOTWAWKI is in the offing then we will almost certainly have people coming out to the countryside from the more densely populated areas. Some will want to stay with us. I hope at the very least that our extended families will be able to get here to be with us.

We are prepared to put up some finite number of additional people. I'm wanting to put together a manifesto, a constitution for our homestead so that if we allow family or friends or ??? to stay here I can place the rules in front of them, in print, and have them sign off. Could you help me with these; what rules will you enact and enforce (and how) if you are in this situation?

Rule #1 on my homestead: My decision on a matter is final. I'll be glad to hear any and all discussion on the matter but this is not a democracy. You can go elsewhere if you don't like it.

Another rule will be that any kind of stealing, no matter how seemingly trivial, will be punished by expulsion.

Another, the biblical injunction that worklessness will be rewarded with foodlessness.

What else?

-- Franklin Journier (ready4y2k@yahoo.com), November 12, 1998

Answers

No Smoking

xxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), November 12, 1998.


Franklin,

While I agree with you in principle, the practical aspects may be somewhat different than we might now envision.

I believe it was in the film, The Day After, that a man returned to his farm/ranch on horseback, several days after TEOTWAWKI to find a fair sized crowd camping out in his yard. He said something to the effect that he would help as he was able, but that this was HIS HOME. Someone then shot him dead. And this was a crowd of men, women and children that appeared to be "shell shocked"!

It seems likely to me that your rule #1 is only going to be enforceable if you're "the baddest SOB in the valley". . .

I don't see this as a pleasant prospect, but the film had a valid point.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), November 12, 1998.


It sounds like you are trying to form a "social contract." I think that's at the least, a very good idea, and at the most, a noble cause. I've lived in two "hippie communes" also known as "intentional communities, and at both we enacted a social contract. Here is the text of the social contract for one of them, Ganas, in NYC:

---"RULES AND AGREEMENTS: Since we deal with problems daily in open discussion, we are able to limit ourselves to only 4 rules:

1.Non-violence to people or things;

2.No free rides (everybody is required to work productively or pay their expenses);

3.No illegality (including illegal drugs).

4.a new rule, requires that people bring their complaints about the community or people in it to the group, where the problems can be discussed and resolved with the people involved.

People breaking one of these rules will be asked to leave.

Agreements are made and changed often. Anyone can bring up any issue any time, and anything can be somewhat modified, if that's what it takes to meet people's needs. We've agreed in principle to help everyone get as much of what they want as possible. None of this consistently goes according to plan, but we work on it."---

That's it! Pretty simple, and it works.

Now, obviously there is a big difference between that particular "intentional community" which is basically a Communist Politburo Monarchy and the Benevolent Dictatorship that you are trying to set up. I think the biggest difference may be that last paragraph. The first four items will probably apply, though as a benevolent dictator, you may need to be prepared to back up your decisions with violence or threats of violence...

(for more info on Intentional Communities go to www.ic.org)

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), November 12, 1998.


You know nothing of these people's backgrounds, (Criminals? Psychos?) yet you will let them reside on your property along with your family? How foolish. Give them a meal and send them on their way. This is harsh, I know, but it is better than putting your family at risk. Even people who are well adjusted now are going to change if food and water become scarce. And don't forget the bullies who will see it as an opportunity to get the upper-hand. If you get 2 or 3 of these guys in your homey little group the s--- will hit the fan.

-- Alive in 2001 (sarmstro@seidata.com), November 12, 1998.

The nearest town to my Y2k retreat is intensely conservative, and christian. If TEOTWAWKI occurs, I expect the "rules" to come right out of Leviticus. We're talking about a community where there are serious PTA meeting arguments about whether witches have infiltrated the teaching staff, and AIDs is without question the Judgement of God. There won't be any "guests" at my retreat. But in the community at large, I expect the revival of stocks, witch-trails, the torture and burning of gays and herbalists, old maids, etc.. Any migrant workers may become slaves, as in the New Testament injunction "slaves, obey your masters." I know these people, and do not exaggerate.

Anyone think this atavism likely to spread?

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), November 12, 1998.



This reminds me of my grandma telling me about the depression. They lived close to a railroad track and it was common for tramps to walk along the railroad and stop at farm houses and look for work. My grandma was a fine Christian woman, but she would never invite them into her home. She would usually give them a sandwich and send them on their way. I realize this was a different time, but grandma was still scared of these tramps. My other grandparents were braver. They would frequently invite the tramps in to eat a meal with them. However here again, they would then send them on their way. I don't think too many people are going to welcome strangers into their household. In this day and age it would be even scarier than the 30s

-- Louise (~~~~~@~~~~.~~~), November 12, 1998.

E. Coli, the fact that it still exists at all is amazing.

Came across this *strange* but true article.
Did we just fall into a time warp?
Is this America in 1998?
http://www.sunspot.net/cgi-bin/editorial/story.cgi?storyid=90000021707 5
No wonder the Mayfairs whisper at their picnics.
This really happened so I guess we have to worry about the witch inquisitions too.
xxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), November 12, 1998.


Oops, that addy comes up blank now. How long do news articles stay accessible? It was from October, about a teenage girl being kicked out of a public school because her classmates thought she was casting spells on them. Really. The principal was a total dork. He said he had to "do research" and find out if witchcraft was a "true religion."
Go figure. Civil rights? x

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), November 12, 1998.

I don't think you people have to worry about Christians taking control of the world and making everyone else their slaves. In fact the Bible says that in the end times Christians will be persecuted like never before. More Christians have been martyred in the 20th century than in the other 19 combined. The way you people talk, you will be glad to see the day when Christians are martyred in this country. And people say that Christians spread hate.

http://www.persecution.com/home.asp

-- Louise (~~~~~@~~~~.~~~), November 12, 1998.


We are talking about fear of persecution, from wherever it may come, directed at whoever is unlucky at the moment. This forum, between the lines of humor, is a cry for tolerance. The mobs will be looking for a target.
xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), November 12, 1998.


Louise,

I don't want you to misunderstand me. This concentration of "christians" is a local thing. And I do recognize that christian belief doesn't fit in with the globalist totalitarian plan, and is being propagandized against, slated for elimination. Then there's christianity in fundamentalist islamic environments, like the Sudan, where christians are crucified.

But I grew up watching the "good, christian people" -who now run the town I'm talking about- beat up the only jewish kid every day after school and chase him home, because he was "a dirty, christ-killing jew boy" - and I'm talking a mob of dozens, girls too, unrestrained by onlooking adults. It was great fun for them. They weren't racist though; one of the few black guys in town was well-liked, because "that nigger can really play football" -the rest got beaten so much they left asap. There are no gay people in this town. It's a case of "faggot, don't let the sun set on you here." I've heard these people talk about how Satan is persecuting them, and how they are well-armed and will fight back tooth and nail, starting with the 'abominations'(gays), abortionists, liberal socialist traitors in their midst. They're simmering with rage now, in a booming economy; Y2k - level 5 or worse - is going to strip the veneer off this poison right quick. And when the NWO does roll over them, I'm going to weep for the loss of our Republic and our Constitution - but not for them.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), November 12, 1998.


Leska, those "x" things that you always sign off with. You aren't casting a spell or anything, I hope?....

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), November 12, 1998.

Yup, Jack, you got it. The xxx's are a sacrificial offering to the cybergnomes who chomp the endings of all my posts. If I give them enough goat bytes, their hunger is satisfied before they get to the guts of my message; then they go looking for something sweeter. Gotta do whatever it takes to communicate in this medium. *heehee*
Leska xxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), November 12, 1998.

Hey, E.

What the hell 'ya doing in that town, anyway?

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), November 12, 1998.


Hey E. -- What keeps you in this place? And where is it, incidentally? Sounds like a town I once knew in Nebraska.

-- J.D. Clark (yankeejdc@aol.com), November 12, 1998.


Talking about christians and all that...incidentaly, a "y2k friendly" community is one where the people are cohesive and y2k aware and prepared. Christian extremist, left-wing extremists or middlegrounders, doesn't matter, as long as you're all on the same wavelength. Those self-called Christians of E's, they'll manage and survive together, because they're cohesive in their own ways. If they ever find out the truth about E though...eeek, run E! ;)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), November 12, 1998.

We here in Salems Lot also think much alike and look forward to the many visitors during y2k.

-- ralphie glick (King@Maine.com), November 12, 1998.

All: the town in question is not where I'll be; it's just the nearest place with a postoffice. It's in the Northwestern part of the U.S.. The reason I'm there is that I have a few contacts, some familiarity with the landscape and attatchment to storage there. I have alternatives if that area gets ugly, though, which it may - or may not. I intend to live well by trading. I don't care what people believe, as long as they can trade and leave me to my way. There is a chance that a lot of vacation real estate in the area, owned by urban people, may become permanently occupied, which might change the demographic. Also, these wealthier, educated folks in the city seem more cognizant of Y2k. Programmers and those who work with them who know, have assets, and are getting ready (this is where I differ with North, who thinks "bubba" will control things. Whoever is positioned financially will control things, and technocratic elites are positioning now; Bubba is clueless or ridiculing the problem). So the Theonomialists might be disappointed.

If pressed in conversation with fervently religious people, I intend to profess, honestly, a humble facination with the Bible and move on -quickly- to the necessity of standards of decent behavior, especially during difficult times. If people are getting routinely stoned (with stones) and torched again - not outside the realm of possibility, in my opinion- than I'll move my store. If the whole mess turns into some "Republic of Gilead," or the Constitution is shelved, then I'll go live with the Yeti. They smell a bit, but they live less troubled lives.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), November 12, 1998.


E;

To bad your perceptions about humanity are so bad, had a bad childhood?

Anyone who both states that they are a "Christian" and are "militant" are hypocritical. I know of Muslims who are really good, kind people yet most of us prejudice them as Radical baby killers. Well don't let the actions of a few taint the whole.

America is NOT a "Christian" nation. The unthankful, unholy will be the ones who burn heritics at the stake. It takes more than words to be, it takes action.

Franklin, I also live far, far out in the woods and expect that I will be feeding folks. I will not allow strangers to stay. Remember, the order of things, God, Family and then community. It is hard to assure safety for your family not knowing who's looking in your windows.

I really think the severity of this issue could be overblown. mayby not. Yet if it is really bad, I will have male family members move in to alternate watch shifts. I would sleep easier at night if you know what I mean.

by the way, what DOES TEOTWAWKI stand for.

ww

-- WAYNE WITCHER (WWITCHER@MVTEL.NET), November 12, 1998.


It stands for The End Of The World As We Know It - which I sincerely doubt. If WWII could not do it, computer problems just ain't got the moxie.

I have known far more hypocritical Christians that sincere ones. To paraphrase Mark Twain "There are far more professing Christians than professional Christians".

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), November 12, 1998.


E. Once again, I think you are right on. (I know you defend yourself well, so please pardon the following swipe at ww

ww: bad childhood my a**.

Sorry, I'm a little short these days. I normally have more patience with the clueless. BTW, I had a _great_ childhood. I also had three years a as COP dealing daily with the underbelly of humanity and I don't draw my opinion from pop pyscology I draw them from three knife scars and two bullet holes. I personally think E. is an optimist.

As to the "rules" in the original post. Glad to see a discussion here. I been thinking about this a lot lately. Franklin, you are exactly right in #1. It will be a dictatorship on my place also, benevolent I hope, but a dictatorship nonetheless.

People: you need to talk to those around you who have experience in life outside our "civilized" society. IF it goes bad it very likely will go VERY bad. Most of you who have led "normal" lives really don't have a concept of how vicious a human animal can be or can even begin to realize what it might take to keep yourself above room temperature.

It is all I can do to keep from crying everytime I think of the hurt that is ahead for the world and especially for the gentle folks among us. God help us all.

Greybear

ps - to the poster who said "... or threaten violence..." NEVER threaten violence. DO it, if you have to, but don't threaten.

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), November 12, 1998.


#1 rule is if you look to people to understand God you will surely fail and be disappointed. To know God read his word and develop a personal relation with him through his son Jesus Christ. It took me years to understand my relationship with God because I always looked at the people who called themselves christian (most because they had some denominational membership) #2 Religion is man's way to reach God. God's way to reach man was through His Son Jesus, who died so that we can live (eternally with God) Read the book of John - new testament. It is all by God's Grace otherwise there is no hope. Don't give God a bad rap because of imperfect (sinful, yes all of us) people. Franklin if you read Larry Burkett's book Solar Flare it discusses establishment of community that might be your answer along with a good idea how people might react in a bad situation. People are alot different now than in the Great Depression....My view point is that God will get me "through" anything (and he has gotten me through a lot!) but if that his not his plan I am ready to go home! Have the Faith! Diana

-- Diana (count@414.day), November 12, 1998.

Greybear, again you evoke in me a sense of admiration. Nothing will be the same, least of all the concept of common decency. Post-y2k, common decency may mean letting you walk away alive.

As for letting strangers into your home, when I was 20 years old, our minister was murdered in his kitchen by a stranger who was in need. From the setting, it was deduced that the good reverend had met the fellow and invited him in for some lunch. He was stabbed 26 times with one of the knives from the table, apparantly while he was at the stove and his back was turned to his guest.

Trust no one. I know that if it was a choice between letting my child die of starvation, and killing someone, I will kill. Not because I'm a killer, but because if my back is against the wall, and my child's life is at stake, then there ARE NO RULES. Of course it would only be after every other option had been exhausted, but, well, there it is. If my baby is at the edge of death, and the only food is in the hands of someone who will die to keep it, that someone will die.

My point is that if I can admit to you and myself that this is true of ME, a gentle and kind person all my life, a believer in the golden rule and He who gave it to us, then I must expect no more and no less than anyone else. I will not put my family at risk for the sake of strangers. The idea of having some hand-outs ready in the plan is a good idea.

-- Arewyn (nordic@northnet.net), November 13, 1998.


To Greybear:

When I posted "or threaten violence" I did, of course, mean to back up that threat with action, if necessary. If I'm doing something that's bothering someone, and they point a shotgun at my chest, that "threat of violence" will be enough to make me stop. And run. I don't believe in the "shoot first, ask questions later" mindset. I believe in the "get as much information as possible and make as rational a decision as possible" mindset. I'm sure your experience and training in law enforcement means that you are able to make that decision quicker than someone like me, who doesn't have that training and experience. I would be willing to take the risk to ensure that I did not harm someone who was innocent.

BTW - I believe E. Coli is an optimist also. Optimism (IMHO) does not imply a blind faith in the goodness of humanity, it implies a willingness to fully understand and act upon that understanding of the true and rounded nature of humanity...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), November 13, 1998.


I'd like to contribute a couple of thoughts here.

You may be sure, however you perceive Him, that God makes ALL the rules including how or even IF you relate to Him. If you postulate the existence of an omnipotent God, this must be true. Those rules that are man-made are suspect.

Nature, or God if you will, has built in to all living creatures, a single, unqualified Prime Directive: SURVIVE. Lower priority directives, such as Reproduce your kind, may modify the first one in regard to the individual, as in the case of a mother sacrificing herself in favor of her offspring. In the end, Nature's programming is inter-dependent and it still boils down to survival.

Even a cursory observation of Nature (of which we're all a part) clearly shows that nothing much messes with sharks or tigers or rhinos, save man. I personally feel that we too often forget the wisdom of Theodore Roosevelt's words, "Walk softly and carry a big stick."

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), November 13, 1998.


Diana,

Well-stated! Anyone who calls themselves a Christian and does the things E has discussed is more than a hypocrite. E, I don't doubt what you're saying. Unfortunately, this is nothing new. Everything from the inquisitions to the crusades to witch burnings and KKK lynchings have all been perpetrated by self-proclaimed Christians. If I remember my history correctly, Hitler himself claimed to be a Christian -- perhaps the ultimate hypocrisy.

A true Christian can NOT hole up in some remote location to ride out the storm with an "every man/woman for him/her self" attitude. Nor could we refuse the request for food or water from anyone. It would be like turning away our own brother or sister. By nature, we have to do as Jesus would do. He commanded us to "Love your neighbor as yourself". He didn't turn away the crowds, he had compassion on them and miraculously fed them. Can we do less? Even at the risk of personal sacrifice, we need to trust the Lord to provide for all our needs.

It is my sincere hope that Christians everywhere will wake up in this crisis and find their true faith in God and begin to allow Jesus to live through them and to be the light that they are called to be.

E, I understand why you feel the way you do. I can't blame you considering what you've seen and experienced. I pray that God will let you encounter some true Christians soon. You deserve to see God's unconditional love and you should be able to see it through those who call themselves His servants. If not, shame on them! I would not want to be in their shoes on Judgement Day.

David.

-- David (David@BankPacman.com), November 13, 1998.


Pick up a copy of John Christopher's No Blade of Grass.

It's a fictional exploration of the consequences in Britain of the accidental(?) release of a plant pathogen developed for military use. Its effect is to kill all grasses. No other plants are affected. But wheat, rice, oats, barley, corn -- all grains are kaput. If a saved seed sprouts, it's gone in a week. The scenario that follows is not a happy one. But some survive. Not by being merciful, not by suffering fools gladly.

But who knows --? there are all sorts of people in this world, and all sorts of environments. It doesn't have to be the complete catastrophe everywhere.

BTW it's not only "Christians" who've perpetrated massacres. Cf. Chaka, a Zulu chieftain who spent several years leading his crew around southern Africa killing black people in droves. Or Stalin-- the Ukraine famine, the purges. Or Genghiz Khan, who piled up -- literally -- mountains of skulls. It's humans who do this, over and over. Here and there they use "religion" as an excuse. Other places they just do it.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), November 14, 1998.


Absolutely the best thread ever. Now that I have you nuts in one place, stay put while I work on this. I'm taking a meeting with the Quakers today and tommorrow I mind meld with Koresh.

One idea I have is on April 1 each community could have "Pet Day" People could bring in Fluffy or Muffin and get a case of crushed pineapple or a can of Tuna. Their choice. If "Pet Day" is successful I propose July 4 for "Grandparents Day"

-- JimmyBaggaDoughnuts (Goddabomb@worldnet.att.net), November 19, 1998.


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