greenspun.com : LUSENET : 1998 Guam Elections : One Thread


This thread is a continuation of the "98 SINS OF KARL" thread, because it was getting too long. Please post new answers to this thread, not the old one.


-- Lighthouse Keeper (lighthousekeeper@my-dejanews.com), October 21, 1998


75. He makes us suffer through that insufferable "Power of Love" TV ad. His sappiness translates to: "Sure, I may have screwed up a few dozen times (see the previous 74 sins), but I have gotten up and so you should forget what I've done."

And yet Madeleine is saying in another ad not to forget the past. Are we to forget Karl's nepotism, incinerator, media control, lack of support of education, rising crime rates, rising unemployment, etc.? I think when it comes to the voting booth, we shouldn't forget.

-- Lighthouse Keeper (lighthousekeeper@my-dejanews.com), October 21, 1998.

One profane suggestion to all the hate-mongers out there and you refer to "a few very profane posts". Tell me "lighthouse keeper", who's misleading who??????

-- Bob (rhess@ns.gov.gu), October 21, 1998.

Mr. Hess,

It's fine for you to accuse me of being misleading. I don't mind that. But the fact remains that your posts contained profanity and I warned against that. You may be new to this forum, so to read the policy of the forum please see the thread "Note to all new users." Thank you for participating.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 22, 1998.


Your lack of evidence, Ex parte communcication and fabrications fails to support your postings for a reasonable mind to accept as adequate to support conclusions. This is the maugleg way of thinking and reason for Joe Ada to run away from a debate. Joe Ada got fooled by the uncleaned hands of Tony Leon Guerrero and it cost the taxpayers at least 14 million dollars. But thats okay just hide the truth cause Joe got a sweetheart deal for 2 million dollars while the government went into fiscal abandonment defeat. Go ahead and delete the postings that you dislike beacause the people of Guam is aware of the facts. It will not be long before lighthead will pay for his own injustice.

-- (kiss@kuentos.com), October 22, 1998.

To Kiss and Rhess

#1 You keep on bringing up the Bank of Guam deal. It is fair to bring up the bad of each candidate, your fail to see that Uncle KAL has made MANY SWEET DEALS for political and monetary gain. Hmmm I wonder why the Calvos are such a big contributor to his campaign. Do I smell that worthless, crappy building that shakes and is poorly designed that TAXPAYERS INHERITED to BUY A BLDG OWNED BY CALVOS in HARMON for a Government building?? Our money is being wasted on some ugly building when our kids have no textbooks and our hospital is looking bleak. What about the INCINERATOR? another FATTY CONTRACT that employs Tommy GOOD-FOR-NOTHING Gutierrez 100K a year and god knows what else bonuses. If you want to bring up Ada/Bank of Guam at least be prepared to answer all the corruption that goes on in this administration!

#2 Hey Rhess, I wish the Governor could pay me to work in the government so I can right emails during GOVERNMENT TIME!! Your Goverment address is supposed to be used for Government Purposes not so you can CAMPAIGN!

-- LOWLIVES (juan@yahoo.com), October 22, 1998.

You can decide for yourself if the old Super Drug building in Harmon is suitable for GPA however please do not mis-state the facts. GPA, an autonomous agency, is paying for the lease of that building. There is no way these funds are or ever could be available for the purchase of text books for the schools. The lack of text books in the schools is due to other gross incompetence within the government. Not taking sides but just ensuring you get the facts straight.

-- Truthkeeper (truth_keeper@hotmail.com), October 22, 1998.

Juan@yahoo: #1 - I don't recall campaigning for anyone. #2 - I happen to be one of those people who put in a lot more hours than I'm paid so you don't know who's time I'm using. #3 - Do you like this address better? Heck, If I wanted I could just as easily use "Prez@whitehouse.usa.com"

-- Bob (rwhjr@hotmail.com), October 22, 1998.

76. Karl brought Clintonite Ellen Ratner out to Guam, drove her around all day in a government vehicle with a government driver. What makes it more disgusting is this ... Could it be a reward for K57's obvious pro-Karl slant? Think about the opportunity Karl gave 57 ... He pulls strings, gets 57 national exposure and in a couple months Jon will have his show broadcast in the states.

Not convinced? Well, Ratner used her first show not to promote Guam, but to promote "Her Governor". Then Madeliene gets to be on the show, too.

Obviously, 57 has no ethics. Please dont say you dont owe the governor for the opportunity he gave you Jon. It's well-known that you always pay back your sponsors with good lip service. No wonder you tell Jared Cruz he's "Still the one". No wonder you told your audience that "Madeliene Bordallo deserves a pat on the back. She believes in the Chamoru issues."

Methinks its fairly obvious you support Karl's re-election. You did hel kreate the illegal Vision 2001.

-- (guamnews@hotmail.com), October 22, 1998.

I too question K-57's motives in brining out Radner and Stephan's program. It has never been satisfactorily answered who paid for the trip. I know it was Carl but was it campaign money or government money? I think that it should have legally contained the standard disclaimer as other political advertising especially when Radner told Madeleine "of course you'll win in November. He's MY governor". K- 57 better hope that Gutierrez wins as they have now sold their souls. Luckily for them even if Joe Ada gets elected, he is not vindictive. He does, however, know who his friends are.

-- Truthkeeper (truth_keeper@hotmail.com), October 22, 1998.


I think your wrong. Ok GPA signed the contract! But I ain't no 98 dummy. Rick Sell-Out Republican Unpingco GPA Director follows his orders from Uncle Carl. We've all seen Rick at the 98 rallies talking about power poles. We know that Gutierrez calls the shots on who gets contracts.

As for Calvos, I don't care what anyone says. I know they are ALL supporting 98. They want more Money cos they greedy.

-- Juan jr (juan@yahoo.com), October 23, 1998.

The talkshow with Ellen Ratner and Doug Stephen was a good chance for Guam to get positive coverage in the national media scene. The trip was NOT paid for with any type of government or campaign money. Continental donated the airfare, and Hilton donated the rooms. In exchange, they got mentioned on the show. Often airlines and hotels do those type of promotions because what is good for Guam is good for their business too. The governor has consistantly been working to get Guam a higher profile in the national media, and he's doing a good job of it. He should also get the credit for being resourceful and doing it without using any government money.

What's that saying.... give credit where credit is due?!

-- Spotlight (truth@yahoo.com), October 23, 1998.

Regarding the national talk show on K-57. I'm sure we can all thank the host (Stephan) for his comments that he doesn't trust or like the Japanese. He thinks they have predatory trade practices and he will never be able to forgive them for World War II. In his words, they were animals. Thanks, Mr. Stephan, for helping our tourist industry and reminding people in the US that we are nothing more than a reminant from their grandfathers trek through the Pacific during the war. If everything was paid for by the sponsors why did Mike Powell say the governor's office was paying for it? Didn't he get the memo?

-- Truthkeeper (truth_keeper@hotmail.com), October 23, 1998.


I have edited some posts on this thread in which people were just insulting each other. Please try to refrain from this. It is not useful to the discussion. If you want to insult me, you can do so (just do it without profanity, please). But don't insult others on this forum. Present logical arguments about public issues, and attack the arguments others put up that you disagree with. A little side- swiping insult here or there doesn't hurt, but posts that are aimed just at insulting another person posting have no place on a rational forum. Thanks for respecting the intent of this forum, and I look forward to the good posts sure to come.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 23, 1998.

77. Karl had the nerve to insult our intelligence once more with a political ad called "political attacks". He said that people are impugning the integrity of all government workers, including the AG's office, GPD, customs, and the entire judicial system, with the allegations of corruption. Hey Karl, last time I heard, everybody was accusing you of corruption, not all government workers. Obviously the large majority of government workers are clean, and good, and hard working. There are a few bad apples, but it is your administration that has fostered the corruption and allowed the bad apples to spread. You are the problem, not people attacking you.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 23, 1998.

78. Karl attacks Joe Ada on financial management and the deficit, and yet not only was Karl the ways and means chairman during that time, government revenues are lower than ever now and Karl is spending a wildly as ever. Road pavings, free power hookups, thousands of government jobs, contracts to friends and family, campaigning on government time and expense, luxury vehicles, luxury furniture, personal bodyguards, extremely well paid spin doctors and campaign managers on government money ... the list goes on and on. Now Karl won't tell us what unemployment really is, or what the deficit really is right now. What does he have to hide?

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 23, 1998.

79. Karl forces government employees to campaign for him. Look at the thousands of government employees who are forced to go to his motorcades and rallies -- each agency is REQUIRED to have a minimum number of employees at these functions. Look at the 98 stickers and signs we must put up, or bear the stigma of not supporting the governor. Look at the how all the government directors are directed to campaign for Karl each time they talk to the public or the media. Look at how Karl buys expensive PDN advertising sections for government agencies on government expense with Karl's pictures all over them. I think government employees have more intelligence and a stronger conscience than Karl gives us credit for.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 23, 1998.

80. King Karl thinks we're dumb enough to think he's sincere about putting more police officers on the streets because he's putting 100 more officers out there JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION. How convenient. What have you been doing the previous three years, King Karl? No police cycles. No new officers. Cutbacks on drug units, so police officers could guard you and your children 24 hours a day. Helping the people, or helping your family?

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 23, 1998.

81. King Karl klaims he's helping the people of Guam with driveway pavings and free power poles to the poor, but as someone correctly pointed out on another website, Karl isn't answering the real questions. (the following was posted on another website that I have no affiliation with) 1) Where do you go to apply for a road or power pole? 2) What are the income or eligibility requirements? 3) If there are many applicants how are the priorities determined on who gets these services first? 4) Who decides who qualifies?

The facts are this are no programs. The decision on who gets these benefits and how they are provided is left to the discretion of King Karl. This is not a fair means of delivering public services.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 23, 1998.

82. King Karl takes credit for everything good but blame for nothing bad. Where did you say the buck stops, King Karl? (the following was also stolen off another website I have no affiliation with) King Karl has taken credit for winning the suit against the shipping carriers overcharging our residents. The suit filed related to the year 1989. It was filed by the Ada Administration. In running against Joe Ada in 1990, Madeleine Bordallo criticized Joe Ada for wasteful spending with regards to the suit. Now they are taking credit for winning it.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 23, 1998.

It's true Joe Ada spend 10 to 12 million dollars on lawyer fees to get the shipping rates down. It seems that the people of Guam will never get any benefit from this action and can kiss the money goodbye. Yes, Guam won the first court round but the shipping companies continue the legal battle and it seems that based on the records they will win the final disposition. Good try Joe Ada, but no cigar just like your planning. Joe, you need to go out to the public and respond to the issues before November.

-- (draino@kuentos.com), October 23, 1998.


Regarding your earlier post about the GPA Harmon building, you stated: "GPA, an autonomous agency, is paying for the lease of that building. There is no way these funds are or ever could be available for the purchase of text books for the schools. ... Not taking sides but just ensuring you get the facts straight."

I'm not sure the facts are as clear as you state them. Karl was creative when he came up with a Memorandum of Understanding with GTA, another autonomous agency, where Bob Kelly was used to funnel money to Karl's office for expensive govt house furniture. Karl could be creative enough to do the same with GPA if he really wanted to. I'm sure there'd be much less outcry if Karl used those tactics to pay for textbooks instead of furniture.

Just an observation.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 23, 1998.


The Dept. of Education text book problems is within the DOE oranization for the pass several years. The education administrators are busy with in-fighting and have no personnel code of ethics. As we speak they are currently working to get pay raises for the administrators and have reserved about a million dollars to pay for such cost. The education of students is not the number one goal.

-- (educated@kuentos.com), October 23, 1998.


I know very well that there are major, major problems with DOE, and that children aren't the #1 priority, and that administrators don't need raises ahead of other priorities. But the fact remains that Karl hasn't released the money that the Legislature appropriated to DOE for textbooks, so in this instance it isn't DOE's fault that textbooks are scarce. Usually it is DOE's fault, but in this case it's Karl's.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 23, 1998.

To Spotlight:

The talk-show folks were escorted and driven around by government employees. They rode around in one of those nice and necessary Ford Expeditions. Give credit where credit is due ... Let's see. The show couldn't really promote Guam because the phone lines couldn't work, so it made us look like a third world country. Even Bob Kelley, who was at K57 every night couldn't get the phones to work.

You are kind of missing the point. Everyone knows that Jon Anderson is grateful to his sponsors and can give very good lip service to those who help his station. Let's see. The Governor pulls strings, gets these people out here, gets K57 National Exposure, gets Jon Anderson National Exposure. Hmmmm.

Jon and K57 are grateful to the Governor for the favor. How grateful? Just listen and you'll see. Why would 57 want to criticize the administration now, after all they've done for the station.

Maybe that's why anti-administration callers get hassled by the elitist superb english speaking hosts. Maybe that's why they don't talk about the real issues affecting us (Unemployment, Drugs, Education, Crime, Dismissed Cases, Tourism Down). Maybe that's why Myk Powell was heard singing "Still The One" briefly on Friday. Maybe that's why Jon Anderson routinely tells Jarrod On The Go that "He's Still The One". Maybe thats why Jon was on the Vision 2001 economic advisory board. Maybe thats why he accepted a free trip from the Gov.

But it's okay, because Talk Show Hosts are allowed to have opinions, right?

-- (guamnews@hotmail.com), October 24, 1998.

83. Karl gets his kronies to sell fundraiser tickets. Look at the two AG's who got their asses busted for selling tickets. And trust, they were busted by their own employees! It is a violation of the Mini Hatch Act.

84. Sin of hiring a guy like Juan Taijito to run Labor Department. This guy admitted the unemployment rate was near 15%. And he couldn't answer questions about why he maxed out his budget with political hires. "I dont know" "I dont remember" "I don't have an answer".

Sounds a lot like:

"He's in charge of the whole damn island ..." "I KNOW the Governor". "Oh that 98 sticker on my fire cheif vehicle? It must have just been put there!" "The luxury expedition reflects the Governor's style."

-- (guamnews@hotmail.com), October 26, 1998.

Lighthouse Keeper and Guam News, what will you two do when Carl wins the election?! I kinda like Spotlight's idea of you spontaneously combusting. But seriously, what will you do?

-- Jane (mansolo@hotmail.com), October 26, 1998.

I know what I'm going to do IF Karl wins. I'm going to run for senator and pester his ass till we get some justice around here. Now since Joe Ada is going to win I won't have to spend all that money campaigning.

-- (carlsux@so.does.98.com), October 26, 1998.

I feel sorry for all those Hita and Tom and Lou people who are for Joe Ada. They're going to lose twice in one election.

-- Jane (mansolo@hotmail.com), October 26, 1998.

Do you really think Carl is going to win Jane? Let's look at the primary results.

Karl got 16,636 votes

Tom got 9296 Hita got 6745 Joe got 4451

Now, Hita and Tom and Lou are supporting Joe Ada. So let's add all of this up. Karl gets 16,636 and Joe gets 20492. I guess you 98'ers better be looking for some new jobs!

-- (joeada@Iwillwin.com), October 27, 1998.

The 98th sin is the 98 victory. The numbers don't lie.

-- (saint@kuentos.wins), October 27, 1998.

85. How about the sin of the AG's Office selling fundraiser tickets!

Now the AG is saying they want to investigate who leaked the tip to the media!

If it wasn't for the media, they would have covered this up!

This is gonna be another one swept under the rug!



-- Dakta Ziegfried (0U812@ziegfried.edu), October 27, 1998.

If I buy one of these fundraising tickets does that mean I can have my felony charges dropped against me? If so, I'd like to buy 100 tickets.

-- (itstime@4violent.revolution.com), October 27, 1998.

"Joe Ada", contrary to your belief definately NOT all Hita and Tom and Lou people support Joe Ada. In addition, many more republicans are voting for 98 because they have been turned off by Joe Ada's Charfauros-Santos alliance. The numbers are with 98.

-- Jane (mansolo@hotmail.com), October 27, 1998.

86. King Karl sicks his hounds on Joe Ada with some weak claims -- of course I'm talking about George Bamba and John Tarantino's press conference, run almost in its entirety on guess which media? You got it -- KUAM.

Tarantino is a lawyer, and yet he pointed out not one single law that Joe or Felix broke. He pointed out not one single ethic of the Guam Legislature that they broke. In fact, he couldn't even quote a rule that they broke. I'm not sure what kind of a lawyer goes public with no rules, ethics or laws broken, and yet claims there was wrongdoing. I'm not surprised that Bamba was saying those things, but I'm a little disappointed in Tarantino.

Back to KUAM -- the 8 or 9-minute story they ran was not a story. The test here is if someone handed KUAM reporters the same documents that alleged wrongdoing, would they do the story? Well, seeing as how the charges are 5-10 years old, and how there was nothing illegal alleged, and how no one came out with the charges 5-10 years ago but only now, a week before the election ... I'd say there is no basis for even a 1- minute story. Just because Karl's henchmen are making the charges doesn't make it more of a story.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 27, 1998.

Actually, KUAM gets excited when the Governor's henchmen make accusations because it means they got a top story.

KUAM is a big fat Kalvo joke. Their news is so censored and pro- Gutierrez it makes me wanna barf.

Add tv news to the long list of monopolies the Kalvos have.

-- (yo@mtvraps.com), October 27, 1998.

87. King Karl showed us all how he doesn't understand what honesty and integrity are. In his TV ad, entitled "Honesty and Integrity", Karl tells us that honesty and integrity are going out and telling people what you've done, and putting your life out in the public.

Wrong. Karl has never been shy about telling us what he's done, never been shy about bragging about his accomplishments. It's his dark sides -- incinerator, media control, contracts and jobs to friends, political intimidation, etc. -- that Karl is not open and honest about. Why hasn't he come out openly and cleanly about these issues, instead of hiding behind henchmen, attacking anyone who speaks out against him, and hiding information from the public and media?

The truth is, Karl doesn't understand honesty and integrity, and perhaps that's why he doesn't live an honest life.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 28, 1998.

88. King Karl has the nerve to talk at the recent forum about funding for the education department -- he criticized the 88% gross receipts tax funding for DOE, when the truth is, HE'S the reason the Legislature created that law.

Karl said senators are skirting their duties by not giving DOE a regular funding source, but he has it all wrong. I agree that GRT is not a stable funding source and that the law should be changed. But Karl doesn't seem to understand that senators gave DOE an independent funding source (GRT) because KARL wouldn't release money from the general fund that the Legislature appropriated to DOE. In fact, Karl wanted to cut millions from DOE's budget -- the same education department that he claims he's been helping.

Karl has done more than any governor to HURT our education system, and while the Legislature's solution hasn't worked out, at least they had a good intent -- to take control of DOE away from Karl, who is always looking for more power.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 28, 1998.

89. King Karl made Guam Waterworks Authority buy more than $140,000 worth of *worthless* cleansing solution from Earth Pure, a company owned by George Bamba -- yes, the same George Bamba who is now, for no gain of his own, attacking Charfauros, Joe Ada and Felix Camacho, and anyone else who stands in Karl's way.

The Earth Pure product was proven no more effective than NOTHING, accordiing to a study done on the product done by UOG's Water and Energy Research Institute last year. And yet in April this year, GWA bought $140,000 worth of the product that has no effect. And now Bamba is rushing to King Karl's rescue with vicious attacks on Karl's opponents.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 28, 1998.

90. Karl had GPA bucket trucks putting up transformers and lights at his rally site today -- and I'm sure he'll tell us that GPA will bill him and he'll pay the bill in full using his private campaign funds. Right. Just like he always pays for GPD to escort his rallies and motorcades when they should be patrolling the streets and cracking down on drugs. Just like he paid for GPA to put up light's at Geri's birthday party and the AHRD and other govguam employees to set up and clean up Geri's party and every other rally Karl has had. Just like he pays all the govguam employees to go to his rallies, and the govguam employees who call the talk shows all day, campaign for him on government hours, post to this forum for him on government hours, make TV and newpaper ads for him on government hours. Just like he pays all his directors to be at his campaign headquarters all day and never at their departments, running the agencies like they're paid by taxpayers to do. Exactly how much of his campaign funds are being used to pay the government back for these services? Maybe the FBI will tell us.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 28, 1998.

91. Karl tells us in a TV ad that all the "political attacks" are degrading, that they are impugning the integrity of all the thousands of government employees, the police, customs officers, the attorney general's office, the entire court system -- as if we are dumb enough to believe that line.

First, we've already established that Karl doesn't know what integrity is, so his phrase "impugning the integrity" is meaningless and always has been.

Second, people aren't attacking all the government employees (politicians would be stupid to do so, seeing as how big a voting bloc the govguam employees are) -- people are attacking Karl's korruption. Karl is the reason that GPD, the AG's office and others are looking bad. He is the one who interferes in these agencies so that his friends, families and potential voters aren't arrested or prosecuted. The interference hurts the integrity of those law enforcement officers and prosecutors, and subjects them to scrutiny and investigations. But it's not their fault, and no one is saying it is -- it's Karl's fault for interfering. This is obvious. And yet Karl makes it seem like the hard-working employees are being attacked. Come on.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 28, 1998.

92. Karl uses GPD Patrol Officers at all of his political functions, these Officers already work a mandatory 43 hour work week not to include mandatory court appearances within those work weeks. There are an abundant number of Officers scheduled to work this weekend 10/31 & 11/01. (more than the number actively patroling the entire island) Due to personnel shortages, these Officers are tired and fatigued as it is. Now NO days off? As for the overtime due to these hard working individuals, they just submit it and hope to see it sometime during their careers. When they go back to their regular shifts the fatigue sets in, Officers start making bad judgement calls, crashing patrol cars and getting hurt on the job. These Officers are hard working and dedicated individuals who willingly put their lives on the line everyday for the safety and security of the PEOPLE of Guam.

The Ada/Camacho camp has never had even one Officer at any of their functions, they HIRE their own security. Abuse of Power?

-- give em a break (bnthrdnthat@exhausted.com), October 28, 1998.

To "give em a brake"

Don't be so sure that the "ADA/CAMACHO" camp NEVER (underlined twice, even three times if you'd like) had GPD officers for ANY OF THEIR little parades. I remember very well that I had to wait in traffic while the hita/tom&lou "ADA/CAMACHO hopeFOOLS paraded by with GPD OFFICERS AT MAJOR INTERSECTIONS (case in point: Rte 1 and Rte 6 ) directing traffic... Sounds like a REAL WINNER to me.

So please, if you use the cells your little brain , don't call the pot black if the chick don't hatch (just a qoute from the 1st edition of the "ADA hooked on Phinonics") with an accent of course... ON TO VICTORY...THE 98 WAY.... you know the song, let's all sing it together.....

-- you had your brake (been there done that 2@where's my GPD escort.com), October 28, 1998.

To been there done that 2,

Its obvious to me who is having trouble using their LITTLE brain cells. You obviously don't know the difference between traffic direction and security at a function. Traffic direction is for the safety of all persons on the roads of Guam, not just whose in the motorcade.(or parade as you so intelligently put it) I do not believe there was any mention of traffic direction in the above statement. Maybe you can get somebody to read it to you if you have trouble comprehending. So please kindly keep to the topic and don't try to elucidate(that means explain) things not even mentioned. But then again isn't that the 98 way!

P.S. I do still hear the song "STEAL THE FUNDS"

-- (bnthrdnthat@exhausted.com), October 28, 1998.

93. Karl waits until election time to even bother thinking about the economy. We have the highest unemployment rate in Guam's history -- about 15% according to estimates by Sen. John Salas, labor committee chairman, and affirmed by Juan Tajito, labor dept. director -- and big businesses are laying hundreds of people off at a time.

Small businesses are suffering. Vendors are owed millions by govguam. Gross Receipts Taxes are plummeting, meaning less and less money for our children's education. Airlines are discontinuing routes and flights to and from Guam. People working less and making less money means less taxes, which means our government will be getting even less money, which means less money for the vendors who are owed millions, which means govt workers will either not get paid or will get laid off, which means there will be more people competing for private sector jobs, which means we are in deep doodoo.

And what has the governor done about this crisis? He has refused to provide us with unemployment stats, even though the Legislature appropriated money for the stats to be surveyed and compiled (whatever happened to that money, Karl?) Sure, he didn't cause the crisis -- it was largely due to the KAL crash and Asian economic problems. But during this crisis he has waited until just before the election to unveil his economic plan -- JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION (said again for emphasis). Did he think the KAL crash was going to be good for us? Did he think the Asian problems would have no effect on us? Why is he just coming out with a plan now? What happened to all his planning? Why is he still spending government money like crazy to buy votes with driveways and power hookups? What happened to the great financial management Mike Reidy is bragging about in the paper?

Steal the funds.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 29, 1998.

94. Karl tries to distract us from the truth -- now he's giving us a free concert with the much-beloved C&K, just so we'll forget about all the things he's done to us (see previous 93 sins). He's got the catchy theme song, the pretty girls in his commercials, the big motorcades, the dancing in the streets -- dancing around everything that matters. He'll dance around the charges of korruption until after the election, when Inspector General audits and FBI investigations will end the dancing. And then who will be our governor? Madeleine. Do you see her fretting about the charges? Nope. She's thinking about what it's going to be like to be governor, and who will be her lt. governor.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 29, 1998.

95. Karl has a $627,000 committee that no one ever hears about -- Komitea Para Tiyan. It's a committee that employs about a dozen people (including some of Karl's family) at an average of $40,000 to $50,000 a year -- that has never done a minute of work for Tiyan. These people are supposedly on contract to do "management consulting" for Tiyan, but ask Karl this the next time you see him -- what management consulting have they done, what reports have they turned in, what progress have we seen at Tiyan, what projects have been accomplished through this committee? Why don't the agencies housed at Tiyan pay utility bills, and why hasn't this high paid committee solved this problem? Why haven't they turned Tiyan into an economic zone, like it was supposed to be? Name one single thing this Tiyan committee has done. Why is it worth our money.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 29, 1998.

When Karl is speaking about honesty and intergrity he points out that honesty and intergrity is coming out and facing the people and questions. Not hiding in the background and sending out your PR person to do your dirty work. Ok, well I just want to know if that is the case and someone who doesn't come out hasn't any honesty and intergrity, where were you when Santos came to your office and Ginger Cruz had to answer his questions and complaints. You were no where around, she said you were preparing for your debate that evening. Rehearsing your lines? God forbid you have to answser extemporaneously (delivered without notes) We all know that Joe Ada has problems with speaking in public, but perhaps that is because he hasn't had to spin such tall tales to so large an audience.

-- Jane Public (jstfedup@pci.net), October 29, 1998.


If you are fed up, then why do you recycle the same negative type of garbage (your own version of the truth) as your buddies so full of hate and contempt for '98'? It seems you sick cry babies are your own worst foes if your objective is to beat Carl with lies. You are either supporting Carl or a fool if you think that negative postings will help Joe Ada's bid. For those that toss mud, they will find mud on their face come election day. Jane, it's like the kettle calling the pot black, no different from the chicken-boy calling himself lighthouse. After reading such postings we fear people like Joe Ada, Angel Santos and that angry-loud mouth-wire-tapping-senator and will support anybody other then Joe Ada and his cronnies because they are full of contempt and cannot be trusted to run the govermnent. Thank you, by the way I can trust Tom Ada for senator. Just tired of your lies about '98' and fed up.

-- (hearing@kuentos.com), October 29, 1998.


Twice in your post you mentioned "lies" about Karl. You'll want to be a little more specific -- name the lies you're talking about, and provide support. Jane Public was talking about facts -- dismissed court cases this year are double last year's, with another 2,000 about to be dismissed. You haven't disputed those facts or provided evidence to the contrary. Jane was asking why the governor didn't answer questions about those dismissed cases and other cases that haven't been prosecuted. You say she's slinging "lies" around. I say those are facts, and you are slinging generalities around.

If you know of a lie, please tell us specifically what it is. Then we'll provide the evidence you're lacking, and we'll all be happy.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 29, 1998.

To Hearing,

You are hearing, but are not listening. You see, but do not notice. You talk, but do not think. The hate and contempt for 98 you talk about is generated by supporters for Karl and his Kronies who are blind to the countless immoral and korrupt acts of this administration. You can not respond without personal attacks.. high road? Jane asked a simple question; why could Karl not respond hiimself? As for those who toss mud, maybe you better look at your own hands. I personally commend the Lighthouse for creating this forum so the issues could be discussed(without fear of repercussions) by intelligent people. I guess this would leave you out since you stated "that angry-loud mouth-wire-tapping-senator" I don't recall Mark ever being accused of doing the actual tapping. And you said "just tired of your lies". Unfortunately I fear Karl will win this election because of people like you who see yet they are blind! GOD HELP US ALL!

-- (bnthrdnthat@exhausted.com), October 29, 1998.

96. Karl had Sonny Shelton as acting director of GPA during the beginning of his administration. The justification of Shelton's qualifications was that he operated a amusement/gaming machine business. Gee, I can plug in my TV and VCR, does that mean I can manage turbine power generators? Karl, can I be assistant deputy acting director of GPA for $50k a year?

-- (abc86@usa.net), October 29, 1998.

Lighthead and and his hate monger buddies

You seem to be suffering brain hate defects caused by extreme contempt for '98'. You spend much time trying to appear unbiased and clear and convincing. I think you are the worst of all evils for bringing more hate and fear to our community. I guess the only good thing about this forum for you people is that you can express your comments without retribution. Thank you for the love.

-- (go@hotmail.wow), October 30, 1998.


You dismiss all the charges against Karl as "hate". But the fact remains that there are many things fundamentally wrong with this administration, things that voters should know about, things that have never and still haven't been addressed by you, Karl or anyone else on this forum or in the 98 kampaign. If you mean that we hate korruption, you are right. But I guess neither you nor Karl are going to address any of the fundamental wrongs in this administration, and go on dismissing everything as "hate" and "lies" until the election is over. Dismissal is easy (ask the AG's office) but answering with the truth is a little more difficult. Try it some time.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 30, 1998.

Another one of the Governor's sins is how he SPINS corruption, and honesty and integrity.

-- :) (Spinsin@kuentos.net), October 30, 1998.

To all the supporters of "98"

I had intentions of answering Hearing but after reading the responses generated by his moronic diatribe I feel that I cannot add to the eloquent replies. Instead I want to explain to my compatriots and detractors of Karl why I think (my opinion here) Hearing and many of the other supporters of Karl speak so vehemently and disparagingly to our posts. After listening to the debates tonight (Joe Ada did very well by the way) and Karl's closing three minutes. I have come to the conclusion that he spins a tale like the Pied Piper of Hamlin plays his flute. The uninformed and naive citizens of Guam have become his puppets. However, we the knowledgable and informed know his true colors and to us he is an open book. Speaking of "98's" intergrity whatever happened to the "high road"? If what he said tonight was the "high road " I would hate to see him decide to get down and dirty. Madeline on the other hand just filled the room with hot air and psycho-babbling. Now before you "98'ers" decide to burn me in effigy do take the time to look up the meaning of these words since your following the "98" group allows you the IQ of a 4 year old that still watches Sesame Street.

By the way when you viewed the TV campaign slot showing the two very sweet Chamorros speaking about how Karl came out and put in their poles for electricity, even helping dig the holes. Did anyone stop to think what in sam hill he was doing out there with a camera crew? He was helping these people out of the goodness of his heart. Right? Am I missing something here? How come he had no dirt on his pants or shirt when he was drilling the holes? His hands were not even dirty.

Also tonight on the news there was poor old PR Ginger Cruz out there talking to the reporters and Karl was nowhere to be found. Thats real intergrity and honesty Karl. If you can't live up to your campaign spots how can we trust you to live up to your promises for four years. To spin a take on a great writer Willie Shakespere, "Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much."

-- Jane Public (jstfedup@pci.net), October 30, 1998.

Jane Public,

Loved your post. You've hit a lot of points right on the head. For example, I've often thought it's weird that Karl has video and photos of everything he does. He pays people a lot of money to follow him to every function, meeting, groundbreaking, power hookup, driveway paving and speech that he goes to. Helping th people or helping his kampaign? I think the answer is obvious.

One thing I'd like to point out: not all 98ers are idiots. Some are nice people who've been given jobs. Some are very intelligent people who've been given $60,000-$80,000 jobs or very big govt contracts. Some are just idiots.

Keep up the good posts and I look forward to your participation.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 30, 1998.


I think I like your free mind and Tony lighthouse only cares for you because he hates with a passion all 98. Jane, concentrate on the internal good that exists in everyone and ignore those filled with contempt and hate. Keep hope alive for 98.

-- (love@kuentos.com), October 30, 1998.

97. Here's another sin: Carl gets the Heads of certain agency to call in sick and not attend oversight hearings so that the PUBLIC cannot find out all the misuses and mishandling of funds!! Can he do this? This is such a cowardly move on his part.

-- LOL (spinsin@kuentos.net), October 30, 1998.

***98. Karl has the heads of all his agencies hiding information from the public -- read yesterday's PDN editorial by Linda Green (Pg. 48, Friday Oct. 30).

According to Green, the managing editor of the PDN, every single request for information from government agencies through Karl's own Sunshine Law has been DENIED. PDN wanted to find out what procedures were used when public money benefited private people -- something we've been wondering on this forum for quite awhile. Karl's whipping boys turned the PDN down.

To quote from the editorial: "A democratic government is responsible to the public, to voters, not to any one man, woman or political regime. Keeping voters informed, keeping government actions open and records available are fundamental to democracy. People kept in the dark can't make good decisions. They react to emotion, not fact."

"And while that is dangerous for a democracy, it is fertile ground for tyrants and crooks."

She hit it on the head. That's exactly what we've been saying on this forum. Kudos, Linda Green.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 30, 1998.

99. King Karl pretends that everything is peachy keen in the government, but we in the line agencies know differently. To quote from another PDN editorial: "...taxes and other revenues are $33 million below last year's projections. Many GovGuam departments are broke and others are getting close."

Not only are the departments broke, but they owe millions to vendors. We have a huge deficit right now, but Karl won't tell us that. He won't do anything about the government's desperately crappy financial situation, because to do so would be to admit there are problems. Instead, he'll go on attacking Joe Ada for a deficit Karl helped create, and bragging about how he reduced the deficit. Well, Karl, the government is in worse financial shape now than when you took over. When are you going to admit that?

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 30, 1998.

The only person I know that quotes the Pacfic Daily News is Joe Ada. Good grief, if Joe uses the PDN as his source of knowledge no wonder why he could not do anything in his 8 years as Simple Joe the Gover- nor. It he could read and quote the Washington Post, LA Times, or some other newsworthy source, then I will say good job Joe. His lack of verbal skills in the UOG debate indicates that he can't handle complex communcations with the USA goverment officals in Washington.

-- (news@kuentos.com), October 30, 1998.

News, do you know what you are even talking about? why wouldn't he quote something from our local newspaper. It's all about GUAM not New York or Washington. What an ignorant remark on your part.

-- (reading@yahoo.com), October 30, 1998.

Yes I agree that Joe Ada is ignorant for not being able to read the Washington Post and the LA Times for a global understanding. Thanks for presenting that point and it will be a total embrassment for Guam when Joe speaks with the his verbal skills in Washington.

-- (boy@kuentos.fun), October 31, 1998.

News you state that Joe Ada would occupy a higher place on your IQ ladder if he quoted the New York Daily News or the Washington Post. Reading, has a very valid point to have Joe Ada quote these papers that you speak of would be like mixing apples and oranges, He quotes and refers to the PDN because it is a Guam newspaper with news about Guam in it. I think as Governor he would be interested in the news of Guam, not trying to insinuate himself into the political arena of the mainland. Joe is concerned with the people of Guam and unlike Karl has no political agenda out of this island. Now I know you may argue that Karl has no other motives than to help the people of Guam but then why has he persistently showed up at mainland political functions. He received a Governors award, that could have been accepted here and not wasted the taxpayers money to travel there. Except he wanted the spotlight. He had President Clinton tape a campaign spot saying something to the effect that Karl your still the one. One can only guess what kind of "one" our President meant. He is a Democrat and so is Karl so how could he refuse to do this spot? He probably knows less than little about Karl. ( I remind you all that these are my opinions which I have come to after watching the political fiasco of our present government.)

You intimate that Joe because of his inability to express himself clearly using the English language, he is an uneducated or ignorant man. You claim that he couldn't handle complex communications with US government officials in Washington. I am sure Yeltsin and Sadat along with other officials of other governments have problems with English verbiage but they still strike deals and come to agreements. Could it be they use a translator? Joe has most likely spoken Chamorro for the largest part of his life. He is a quiet, simple man that is not comfortable applauding himself in front of an audience. He is however a passionate man and you can hear that passion when he speaks about his beloved Guam. He doesn't yell, scream or throw verbal tantrums. He speaks from the heart. Unlike Karl who gets angry, blustery and yells. Karl has no passion in his voice when he speaks only anger, denial and fear.

-- Jane Public (jstfedup@pci.net), October 31, 1998.


Besides making some pointless references to the Washington Post and LA Times, you implied that Karl would be better than Joe at handling complex communcations with the USA goverment officals in Washington.

I guess by "complex communication" with government officials in Washington, you mean that Karl will be dancing around 16 charges of korruption in his administration in Congressional oversight hearings, Inspector General investigations, FBI investigations and federal indictments. Karl, no matter how slick he is on Guam, will embarrass us over there in Washington because the charges are too obviously true and too well documented. Karl can hide things from people on Guam, but his hiding will only last so long against the feds. I guess we're willing to put up with that embarrasment too, and the embarrasment of having our governor convicted again. Vote for Karl. He's the best thing since hot buttered toast!

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), October 31, 1998.

Jane Public, dahling

You said the reason Joe can't express himself in English is because he "has probably spoken Chamorro all of his life".

Guess what, babe. Joe can't speak fluent Chamorro.

Yup, it was the best kept secret of his governorship for eight years, just ask Markus Forbus.

If you don't believe me, then why did they schedule at the last minute some birthday party for Felix TWO WEEKS before his birthday (he's a haloween baby) so they had an excuse not to show at the Chamorro Debate ???!

Chew on them apples.

Peace, I'm out.... poof !

-- Spotlight (truth@yahoo.com), October 31, 1998.

Damn you lighthouse, I'm sick and tired of you slandering "Hot Buttered Toast" by referencing it to the governor of Guam!

There is no way Carl's honesty & integrity can stand up to that of "Hot Buttered Toast"

Answer these 9 points if you dare:

1. When was the last time HBT bought the most expensive 4-wheel drive vehicle available on island?

2. Have you ever heard HBT talk negatively about anyone while claiming to take the "High Road"?

3. How many of HBT's relatives have high paying government jobs that basically produce nothing?

4. Did HTB ever claim that his signature had been forged on an illegal southern land deal, then tear up the document before anyone had a chance prove who had actually signed it?

5. Has anyone ever come forward to testify that HTB's family may be involved in illegal drug activities?

6. How many of HTB's fund raising files have been picked up by the FBI?

7. Do you have any government records that show HTB's business associates have been awarded multi-million dollar contracts outside of the normal bidding process?

8. Any of HTB's supporters end up in a luxury hotel after Paka?

9. Finally, how many of HTB's directors have been pulled from their jobs under duress, reassigned to some hidden office, to do who knows what, except to call in sick during legislative hearings?

So Lighthousekeeper, when you can answer or refute any of these questions you can then compare "Hot Buttered Toast" to the current administration. Until that happens - lay of the toast!

Brought to you by the committee for the protection of the reputation of Hot Buttered Toast.

-- just me (mdc@netpci.com), October 31, 1998.

Just Me,

Obviously Karl doesn't match up to Hot Buttered Toast in terms of intelligence or honesty. He's the best thing SINCE Hot Buttered Toast, not as good as it. But since you asked, here are the answers to your questions:

1. Hot Buttered Toast (HBT) bought the MOST expensive 4-wheel drive just last June, when he purchased the $144,000 Toastmaster Luxury Edition STE, complete with four-toast seating in the back.

2. HBT talked negatively about Pop Tarts, claiming he was "nothing but sugar" while claiming to take the high road, just last week. See the PDN article on Oct. 26, Page 4, with the headline "Gov. Toast shreds Pop Tarts, claims crime is at its lowest ever".

3. Many of HBT's relatives have high paying government jobs. Just a few: Cinamin Toast ($150K a yr -- his sister), Onion Bagel ($200K, his cousin), English Muffin ($77K, his distant nephew), Wedding Toast ($92K, his auntie, never shows up to work), Your A** is Toast ($99K, HBT's son). So there.

4. No, HBT never claimed his signature had been forged on an illegal southern land deal, then tear up the document before anyone had a chance prove who had actually signed it. Only Karl would do that.

5. Yes, many people have come forward to testify that HBT's family are drug dealers: Your A** is Toast, for example, is a notorious ice dealer. Everyone knows it, but because he's Gov. Toast's son, no one, not even the cops, dares turn him in. Your A** also lost in the senatorial race in 1996, even though HBT supported him fully.

6. HBT's fundraising files were picked up by the FBI ... well, never you mind how many times! Are you saying this whole administration is corrupt? It's degrading that you impugn the integrity of all the hard working toasts in this government! Even though we all know you're just saying the leader is corrupt, how dare you say every single person in the government is corrupt!

7. HBT doesn't have to answer questions about his friends' multi- million dollar contracts with the government that weren't bid for -- hes the governor, so shut up! Stop spreading the hate!

8. Yes, all of HBT's supporters got luxury hotels after Paka -- though the normal process for using federal funds: you call up Gov. Toast, promise him to support him and take out attack ads or lawsuits against his opponents, and you'll get all the luxury hotel rooms you want, baby! Why, are you saying there's something wrong with that? Want a lawsuit?

9. Your allegations about HBT's directors is nothing but hate, contempt and arrogance and another attempt to attack the integrity of the good toasty criminals ... I mean kampaign managers in the Still the Wonderbread Toast campaign. So go away until after the election.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), November 01, 1998.

Well done ----- I'm TOAST

But you may have to concede my final point:

Judging by belt size alone, Joe is a bigger supporter of Hot Buttered Toast than Carl.

-- just me (mdc@iftech.net), November 01, 1998.

Your wrong

You can judge on size alone and say that Joe is a true Chamorro who eats his heart out. Carl on the other hand is HOT BUTTERED TOAST on KEKI!!!

-- What slander? (juan@yahoo.com), November 02, 1998.

Karl's sins are all in your mind.

The people have spoken.

We're still the one.

-- Spotlight (truth@yahoo.com), November 03, 1998.

Where's the landslide you 98'ers were talking about?

Now we only have 1 Karl crony in the legislature and 12 republicans. Karl better be watching his behind.

-- (abc86@usa.net), November 03, 1998.

Okay, it's over. The majority of voters have spoken and no matter what the Ada/Camacho supporters say...in the privacy of the voting booth, the people have said that Gutierrez/Bordallo team is the best team to govern Guam for the next four years. But before the 98'ers get all hot and bothered, these same voters also said that Carl will not go unchecked. The overwhelming majority of Republican senators elected will insure at the very least that accountability in the Executive branch will be a priority. Let's all just take care of our island and our people...of all ethnicities. Esta.

-- (lanyadude@hotmail.com), November 03, 1998.

RUN-OFF, did anyone say run-off? Alright! See you at the polls!!

-- run-off (run-off@hotmail.com), November 03, 1998.

The Organic Act says the winner must have 51% of the vote, and 98 did NOT have that percent. So a run-off is mandated by law, not initiated by any Ada-Camacho moves.

Ever heard of graciously accepting victory?

-- (stop@mama.boot), November 04, 1998.

Careful profanity, Lighthouse will delete your post because it's liable to be libelous/slanderous...

C'mon people, what elections are now worth going to war with thy neighbor for?

-- 98'er? Not..... (98notADAnot@theyallsuck.com), November 04, 1998.


I have deleted several profane/hateful posts from both sides. Please, let us be civil to each other. We are here for a rational discussion, not name-calling and dagger throwing.

Stick to the issues. BTW, the issue of whether there will be a runoff is still very much up in the air. According to the most recent election statistics, Karl had 49.78 percent of the vote, when you factor in write-ins, ballots with too many votes for governor, and ballots with no votes for governor. The issue? Whether to count the ballots with no votes for governor that have votes for senatorial candidates.

The Organic Act says the governor must be elected with a majority of votes cast by voters who are eligible to vote for members of the Legislature. This is weird wording, but it seems to mean that if you are eligible to vote for the Legislature and you cast a vote in the election, your vote counts in the total, whether you voted for governor or not. But the 98ers are pointing to a court decision in the Virgin Islands that interprets that provision to mean that ballots with no votes for governor don't count in that race.

We'll see what happens. Ultimately, Guam courts may have to decide.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), November 04, 1998.

It seems some clarifications need to be made for the arguments on this forum regarding the need for a run off to have a consistent rational.

1. A majority is 50% + 1 2. A ballot is "a written or printed, or partly written or partly printed paper containing the names of persons to be voted for and the office to be filled." (See Hawaii State AFLCIO, et al v. Yoshina et al, 84 Haw. 374, 935 p2d89 Supreme Court of Hawaii) 3. Cast means when it is placed in the ballot box. (same source as above) 4. A vote is the choice between or among candidates (including write- ins) made on the ballot (same source as above)

NOTE: A ballot and a vote is NOT the same thing.

The Organic act states that " the governor of Guam, together with the Lieutenant Governor, shall be elected by a majority of the votes cast by the people ==== who are qualified to vote for members of the Legislature on Guam.

In looking at the above statement, the word was vote not ballots cast. If congress had meant all ballots, then the Organic Act would have had that language. In this case, it says "votes cast".

A question has been raised about "spoiled ballots" where their were more then one vote for governor. At the time of voting, voters were informed that they could vote for ONE governor candidate and 15 senatorial candidates. If you voted for more then allowed, the vote is VOID. Void means it does NOT count as a vote.

The phrase "who are qualified to vote for members of the Legislature on Guam" has been argued to mean something in the counting of a majority (I am not sure what the intent is in this argument, because it is to convoluted for me to explain that rational!). My friends, all it means is, IF you are qualified to vote for the members of the Legislature on Guam, then you are qualified to vote for the Governor of Guam. Please dont try to add or delete meanings that are clearly not in the words.

I have seen many cases (including an exact duplicate of the Guam case in the Virgin Islands) that excluded blank ballots. I have seen no rulings where a blank or spoiled (over vote) ballot is to be counted in determining a majority of "votes" cast UNLESS is was specifically stated in the statutes for that particular election. Can anyone cite a relevant case rather then unsupported opinions. Note, if this goes to court, it will end up in the 9th Circuit if not the Supreme Court (it is Title 48 of the "US Code" we are discussing here.) Previous court opinions will be weighed so lets see how those of you who want to count blank and spoiled ballots will argue and what cases will you present.

Finally, the Guam Election Commission has had a policy of NOT counting blank ballots since 1974. This was absolutely accepted in the 1982 where the not counting of the blank Ballots resulted in a certification of Bordallo instead of a run off between Bordallo and Calvo. Please give a compelling reason why the Election Commission should changed 24 years of not counting the blank ballots for this election AFTER the election has occurred. Your reasons should be better then you not liking the outcome!

As I read the Organic Act, and all the relevant court decisions I have found as well as the Guam Election Commission Policy, we DO NOT NEED a run off. Carl and Madeleine won. All that will happen in taking this to court is spending a lot of money, time and resources to validate what appears to be obvious. And it will also put the island through weeks of unnecessary pain and anxiety that we do not need. Lets get on with making Guam a better place to live.

(By the way, I have been reading just not commenting lately!)

-- (legal_truth@yahoo.com), November 06, 1998.

Hey "Legal truth",

What about those missing ballots and extra ballots. What does your legal schmegal say about that?

The people want the election done again. Democracy has been compromised. All parties involved should call for a new election.

Just too many questions. From power outage that may have messed up count to discrepancies in 49 of 72 precincts.

Someone should sue!

-- (rerun@election.net), November 06, 1998.

I am confused re-run!

The Election Commission is Bipartisan with 3 members from each party. The Chairman is Republican (and I assume an Ada-Camacho supporter.)

Now because the staff working for a director NOT appointed by the governor has found errors in a process NOT supervised by the administration, you want a new election??

What about the 2000 plus absentee votes? (if a new vote is taken and they are disenfranchised, they will surely sue!) What is the Democrats win the majority in the legislature?

Until the Election Commission releases its finding Monday, we can all speculate. I agree that 49 out of 72 precincts being off on the count is VERY suspicious! Was it sloppy? Was it deliberate? Was it a HITA person, a 98 person or an Ada-Camacho supporter? Or may all or none of the above.

What I do know is a fact however, a Bipartisan Commission is responsible and it supervises the Executive Director of the Commission who supervises the staff. How else could it be done in a fair manner?

The power outage caused a miscount. It was redone and adjusted to the proper count. The ballots can be recounted again if either candidate requests. A recount is a reasonable remedy. A new election would not be reasonable unless fraud was proven on a scale large enough to effect the election.

I hope this helps.

By the way, I am still waiting for anyone to provide any court rulings that show a blank ballot is a vote unless specifically stated in the statutory language.

-- (legal_truth@yahoo.com), November 07, 1998.

Legal Truth,

Thanks for the info. But as far as I know, none of the court cases you've cited can actually be used as precedence for our situation. Neither the Hawaii court system nor the 3rd circuit of appeals has jurisdiction over Guam. We can look at their reasoning -- and it's very possible that the reasoning was flawed -- and use it as a tool, but it has no binding precedence. And in a court of law, a legal opinion by the commission's legal counsel has no bearing either.

I think the courts will have to decide in this case. You can offer your opinions, I can offer mine, but none of it really matters. This is too important an issue for a previous legal opinion or the election commission's current four members (2 are off island) to decide.

As for reasons for interpreting the Organic Act differently than you do, there are several. For example, I qualify to vote for the Legislature, I have cast a vote (a vote for senator but not governor, but a vote nonethless) and therefore my vote can be counted in the overall vote count. Another example: I have casted a vote for governor by leaving the gubernatorial section of my ballot blank -- this makes a statement that I like neither candidate, and it's a statement that I might want to make as a voter. I have signed up to vote, received a ballot, filled in most of the ballot, but left the gubernatorial part blank as a statement. This is a different definition of "vote" than you've provided, but again, the Hawaii case is not binding.

Again, these are just my opinions. I think the courts will decide.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), November 07, 1998.


The Guam Organic Act states: "the Governor of Guam, together with the Lieutenant Governor, shall be elected by a majority of the votes cast by the people who are qualified to vote for members of the Legislature on Guam."

The Organic Act of Virgin Islands states: "the Governor of Virgin Islands, together with the Lieutenant Governor, shall be elected by a majority of the votes cast by the people who are qualified to vote for members of the Legislature of the Virgin Islands."

Now you can see the point. It is the EXACT same language except for the word "Guam" and "Virgin Islands"

The Third Circuit Court of Appeals rendered a decision that blank ballots do not count. It is reasonable for the Election Commission to interpret the meaning the same way because that is the previous history in the Commission and it is also affirmed by the Third Circuit Court of Appeals.

If the Election Commission does interpret the meaning of votes cast to not count the blank ballots, then it is final unless it is appealed to a court. Eventually it will end up in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and I believe they would concur with the Third Circuit decision. If they did not, you would have two circuit courts interpreting the same provisions of Organic Acts differently and it would likely go to the Supreme Court.

Do we want to wait that long?? I think not! It is better to follow the traditional reasoning found in all the cases I have seen instead of trying to create an out because some people do not like the results. (by the way Lighthouse, do you know of any cases where a court interpreted votes cast to mean blank ballots unless specified in the relevant election statute? I keep waiting for a ruling that is different then I have seen!)

If you liked neither candidate, you should have voted for whomever you wanted for Governor (Tom Ada, Angel Santos, "Candy the stripper" or .) then your vote would have counted. You abstained by naming none on your ballot so your ballot had no vote. It is your right to 1) Vote for a name printed on the ballot, 2) Vote for anyone you wish to write in or 3) Choose NOT to vote. Only in the first two instances does it count.

Lighthouse, you are probably correct in the statement the courts will decide. I would love to bet a good dinner with you that the courts eventually will direct the Commission NOT to count the blank ballots and it will be a win for Carl and Madeleine once the appeals are completed. (How can I wager with an anonymous person however????)

-- (legal_truth@yahoo.com), November 07, 1998.

A Rerun is legally impossible

The matter may not even have muster to see the light of a court room. First, of all 'majoriety' is defined for political elections by the Courts throughout the land as, 'whom ever receives the most votes'. The so call (50%+1) is not found in the Organic Act and the only reference is found in 3GCA,Section 17204 which applies to initiatives or better known as the 'Santos amendment' that made initiatives by the people or organizations very difficult to become law.

Second point, 3GCA,Section 11114. provides that 'if for any reason it is impossible to determine hs choice for any office, his ballot shall not be counted for that office'

In summary, it seems that majoriety is whom ever receives the most votes and that if it is impossible to determine the vote it shall not be counted. Thereby with those legal facts it would be impossible to have a rerun as desired by Joe Ada.

Certainly any one has the right to challenge this matter in the Courts but the issues are moot and a waste of time.

-- (basics@kuentos.com), November 07, 1998.

Joe Ada isnt calling for a rerun, I am.

My point is that democracy has been compromised. Why are the 98ers opposed to a rerun?

Surely the Great Krook King Karl can win again?

But if we have a rerun, that means another month of the administration hiding info that would outrage the public.

How can we trust that the problems the power outage caused were completely remedied?

How can we trust the GEC to correct mistakes?

The media should follow up on the AG's Office investigating itself. Bet the case has been swept under the rug.

-- (rerun@onemorevote.net), November 07, 1998.

I'm with yall one this one! Guam ain't no banana republic!

If Karl and Ronald McMadeliene are really "democrats", they will call for a new election because as you say, this one has been compromised.

Imagine if senators were affected by the 500 ballots that either disappeared or came out of nowhere. Now the Election Commission is saying there's no problem.

I smell a rat!

When the Government tells you to walk, you betta run!

When the Government tells you to run, you betta drop and cover your head?

It's not like it would be impossible for this administration to be involved in ballot tampering. Look at their track record over the last four years ...

Driveways, free power poles idiot directors lies about the $100K in furnitre for Govment house. Geri said it was donated only to find out GTA paid for it!

Four year of lies. No action on education, high unemployment, dropped cases, selective prosecution, revenge-minded audits by Rev and Tax, no books, low test scores, corruption.

Wake up people!

-- Dakta Ziegfried (OU812@ziegfried.edu), November 08, 1998.


Yes I agree with your posting because it reflects your perception that a rat smells. It must be the smell of your unpure emotions and dreams that died during the elections. It is better you first clean your own smelly nose before you clean others.

-- (rat@kuentos.com), November 08, 1998.


I am so jealous of your ability to articulate your arguments. You and all the other 98ers have this unique ability to respond to legitimate citizens of this island by insulting them! Maybe you should clean your nose, Rat, there's some brown stuff on it!

Where do I sign up for the Gutierrez/Bordallo Spin School?

Heard Jon "Gov's Spokesman" Anderson saying there is no need for a runoff or re-election. Guess he doesn't think Joe Ada would fly him out for the US President's inauguration. Anderson should learn how to pronounce Chamoru names better, he's been here forever. Guess Arrogant Talk Show Hosts don't need to learn the language.

The Election Commission does their own audit and everything's suddenly ok?

Remember election night? Ada/Camacho was neck and neck, power goes out and suddenyl 98 has a big lead and Mark Charfauros is number 17?

Where are the Feds when you need them?

-- Dakta Ziegfried (OU812@ziegfried.edu), November 08, 1998.

Does the two-step raise DOE administrators got qulaify as a sin of Karl's?

Here we are, no books in the classrooms, teachers and librarians filing grievances, low test scores and the administrators decide they are doing such a great job they deserve a raise!

Not saying they don't deverve it, I'm sure their pay is below normal, but I am saying that the money could clearly be used for something more important than a bigger paycheck for administrators.

I'm sure even you knucklehead 98ers can agree that books and supplies come before pay raises?

Kind of makes it clear why the Guam Federation Of Teachers endorsed Karl and Ronald McMadeline the day before the election. Guess putting more money in their pockets comes before the kids.

Given Karl's track record with education, I don't know how John Birch could say "After carefully weighing all the issues, we strongly endorse Kal and Madeline". With guys like Birch, no wonder our kids are last in test scores.

Remember, Karl did NOTHING for education. He did not build 8 new schools, he just cut the ribbons on those schools. He sued the DOE board for two years. He used federal education money to pave driveways to win votes. He refused to release money for textbooks. DOD schools opened because of Karl's hunger to CONTROL the DOE board.

What in the hell was John Birch thinking?

I'm sure there will be some clever insult from some 98er after my post.

-- The Dakta Is In (OU812@ziegfried.edu), November 08, 1998.


Look at the hate and contempt for 98 in your heart. The people have spoken. Better leave if you don't like it, cuz we're still the one! Your smear tactics didn't fool anyone! Go join Cry Baby Simple Joe Ada.


-- (win@kuentos.net), November 08, 1998.

It seems that every day we are exposed to more of the fraud that took place in the election. Now we have over 500 non-citizens voting and votes put into an envelope instead of the balot box. What's next? I don't even want to begin to guess. Now it's just a matter of time before the feds are in the face of the GEC. Then what? Want commonwealth? That's shot now. How in the hell can we ask for self-determination when we can't even have a fair election. Someone is going to have to pay for this.

-- (abc86@usa.net), November 09, 1998.

Amen Brother!

Fans of fair and open democracies unite!

-- (malafunkshunized@ion.guam), November 09, 1998.

Legal Truth,

Your latest post offers no arguments that are different than your previous post. You are again quoting a 3rd circuit court of appeals decision that has no binding precedence on Guam cases. It is relevant, sure, but no Guam court or body is bound by anything the 3rd circuit says. And 9th circuit judges, given sharp arguments by lawyers in favor of a runoff, can easily find the 3rd circuit reasoning flawed. I think this will be decided ultimately in the U.S. Supreme Court. And yes, I think it's worth the wait -- having Karl as interim governor for a couple months as we wait for a court decision is a small price to pay for democracy.

You argue again that people who mark neither candidate and who don't fill in a write-in candidate cast no vote. But how can you interpret an unmarked gubernatorial ballot as "no vote" when you have no idea what the intention of the voter is? Are you taking away a voter's right to make a statement by leaving the gubernatorial part of the ballot blank -- a very strong statement against the candidates? Would we be arguing if 90% of the voters left the gubernatorial ballots blank, making a very strong statement that the candidates suck? I think it's a legitimate statement.

Again, your opinion and my opinion are weightless in this matter. The courts will decide. We're wasting our breath.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), November 09, 1998.

Light(a profane word that the moderator deleted here)

It is just a matter of time you will see the real thing. Least you expect you can be and it will be done.

-- (time@kuentos.com), November 09, 1998.


You state that a "majority" is defined for political elections by the Courts throughout the land as, 'whom ever receives the most votes'. You also state that the so called (50%+1) is not found in the Organic Act.

I thought Legal Truth already took care of this misconception, but apparently you still don't understand the word "majority." What "courts throughout the land" have defined "majority" as whoever receives the most votes? A majority is always more than half, which means 50% plus one vote (because 50% is half). A candidate who receives more votes than any other but doesn't get half the votes has received a plurality, not a majority. In some cases, a majority can be defined as receiving more votes than all other votes put together, but in all cases this means more than half the votes.

Please don't continue this misconception.

-- Lighthouse (lighthouse1999@yahoo.com), November 09, 1998.

How about the sin of paying Bob Kelly the $73,000 a year to make GovGuam Y2K compliant and the government's not even there yet? He needs to stop tapping phones and calling radio stations and get to work. I was looking over some campaign promises Carl and Madeliene made in 1994, when I voted for them. No hospital accreditation.Carl promised he'd look out for our tac dollars and spend them wisely. Is it a matter of perspective or can the 98ers please concede that Carl has not spen tax dollars wisely?

-- AT (naanmo@yahoo.com), February 24, 1999.

How about the sin of paying Bob Kelly the $73,000 a year to make GovGuam Y2K compliant and the government's not even there yet? He needs to stop tapping phones and calling radio stations and get to work. I was looking over some campaign promises Carl and Madeliene made in 1994, when I voted for them. No hospital accreditation.Carl promised he'd look out for our tac dollars and spend them wisely. Is it a matter of perspective or can the 98ers please concede that Carl has not spent tax dollars wisely?

-- AT (naanmo@yahoo.com), February 24, 1999.


Why are you always slandering Bob Kelly? He has many jobs and duties with the Governent. I think he advises or helps on GTA, Government Radios, 911, Government Computers as well as Y2K. You obviously dont like him but it is really stupid on your part to say he is responsible for the government not being finished with Y2K. According to Time Magazine, the federal government and all sates are still working on it and many cities have barely begun. I for one am happy he is taking this issue on and trying to make sure our island is ready. I heard Bob say on Rlene Live that the Government needed millions of dollars to finish the Y2K project. He has found some federal money to start.

I think he was the person whose phones were tapped by former Senator Charfauros. Bob did not do the tapping. I believe he is going to try to take legal action against the ex senator for his illegal eavesdropping. I think Bob is working to protect us from tapping, not do it. I know that he has supported a federal bill that will result in much hasher penalties (federal) for eavesdropping (wire-tapping). I think again that you went after the wrong guy. Bob is a strong advocate of privacy rights.

I think Bob should have his own radio show.

I for one, thank him every time I call long distance or an 800 call! What have you done to save me or others money?

Finally, why do you have to post the same message twice? You sound stupider the second time around.

If you want to complain about something, make it worthwhile! Complain about Ada Camacho continuing to drag us through needless costly legal battles in vain. They should just shut up, go home and let Carl and his team runs the government. It is over and all of these court cases are just hurting the citizens of Guam. We need to quit the fighting. They will never win. Admit it!

-- (ga'chong@98.governor), February 26, 1999.

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